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Do we really need a liverto?

36 posts in this topic

Posted

Do we really need a liverto longsword? A lot of our abilities already have 100% crit chance, so is liverto really that big a deal for warriors compared to other classes?

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Posted

Liverto is crap... Greens are good enough palceholder till Kzarka, which is a weapon you want in the end... Only if you are extremely unlucky and have too much money to spare get it...  Crit chance is useless stat for you, so you are paying half of kzarkas price for less accuracy and no stats beside AP... (and even there, there is a rumor about kzarka having hidden bonus dmg)

 

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Posted

Do we really need a liverto longsword? A lot of our abilities already have 100% crit chance, so is liverto really that big a deal for warriors compared to other classes?

for some classes its very good, because they make use of the crit so it helps their gem setups alot, it has higher ap and higher accuracy and 2 slots , so it can easily replace a zarka, for some classes. for warriors this is not the case primarily because we NEED 5 atk speed, and crit is worthless. this means that you still will need to use 2 atk speed gems in your gloves, (and assuming your not full boss gear and actually using a liverto) means you will also need to use an atk speed gem in one of your liverto's weapon slots (or rely on foods/elixirs for that 5 atk speed which can be a pain and expensive in the long run)

where as if you use a rosar longsword for example, it A , still has 2 slots , B has plenty of accuracy (more than most green weapons iirc, not quite as much as a liverto but enough) and its ap is fairly good too. but most important of all , it has 1 atk speed when its of destruction or ultimate, which means you can make use of both your weapon slots for proper gem setups (like using precision gems or ap gems.

i remember doing the math before assuming you use ap gems in your longsword and assuming half of your longswords ap goes to GS, and the difference in effective ap on a tri rosar vs a tri liverto was .25 ap in favor of a liverto. meaning you'd be paying a fair amount of money using the liverto over the rosar (both of which are going to be stepping stone weapons) for .25 ap , and a relatively small difference in accuracy.

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Posted

Burhead where's your evidence showing that rosar vs liverto is a small difference in accuracy? If Rosar is in the same zip code of Yuria, which it probably is, the difference is not small at all. This test seems to show that Liverto is almost an accuracy offhand better than Yuria ( https://docs.google.com/document/d/1smwz89e4Bktik-mYdU4e4FiS1_0XhRS7BL5hV8wpZ2k/edit#bookmark=id.hew7j5daw8po ).

I'm *not* trying to say that you have to go Liverto - in fact I agree that Rosar is nice bang for buck, but I do want to point out that accuracy is really important and Liverto isn't a huge mistake if you're having a hard time attaining a Kzarka. 

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Posted

Burhead where's your evidence showing that rosar vs liverto is a small difference in accuracy? If Rosar is in the same zip code of Yuria, which it probably is, the difference is not small at all. This test seems to show that Liverto is almost an accuracy offhand better than Yuria ( https://docs.google.com/document/d/1smwz89e4Bktik-mYdU4e4FiS1_0XhRS7BL5hV8wpZ2k/edit#bookmark=id.hew7j5daw8po ).

I'm *not* trying to say that you have to go Liverto - in fact I agree that Rosar is nice bang for buck, but I do want to point out that accuracy is really important and Liverto isn't a huge mistake if you're having a hard time attaining a Kzarka. 

He feels like it, thats his evidence... :D As always... :D 

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Posted

Burhead where's your evidence showing that rosar vs liverto is a small difference in accuracy? If Rosar is in the same zip code of Yuria, which it probably is, the difference is not small at all.

instead of asking for evidence you'd be better off just reading carefully. Things like "iirc" and "relativley" reveal that he's not doing fix claims. Even asking for any evidence that's proving a "relatively small" amount is kind of.. Well, i dont want to call it stupid.. But since there is no fix amout of acc defined for..  Neighter for "relatively" nor for "small".. You could - all by yourself - draw the conclusion that there us much space for individual interpretations.

1) this is a fck video game.. There is no need for "evidences" at all. Dont overdo things,  buddy..

2) if you are asking for evidences you should at least have some basic knowledge of scientific writing. You seem to not be able of filtering core statements of his text.. Still you're jumping on the "SOURCE?!?!?!?!?!??!111?!?!?!" traing.. And kind of embarrassing yourself with semi-knowledge...

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Posted

instead of asking for evidence you'd be better off just reading carefully. Things like "iirc" and "relativley" reveal that he's not doing fix claims. Even asking for any evidence that's proving a "relatively small" amount is kind of.. Well, i dont want to call it stupid.. But since there is no fix amout of acc defined for..  Neighter for "relatively" nor for "small".. You could - all by yourself - draw the conclusion that there us much space for individual interpretations.

1) this is a fck video game.. There is no need for "evidences" at all. Dont overdo things,  buddy..

2) if you are asking for evidences you should at least have some basic knowledge of scientific writing. You seem to not be able of filtering core statements of his text.. Still you're jumping on the "SOURCE?!?!?!?!?!??!111?!?!?!" traing.. And kind of embarrassing yourself with semi-knowledge...

Thats bcs Burheads favourite hobby is using his feelings as facts in every thread he opens up... Even if you provide him numbers, he just throw up tantrum and continues with his bullshit... Spreading misinformation among newbies...

 

Finally found that video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgrhrapJ-_w some inspiration when choosing green weapons... Rosar is similar to Krea..

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Posted

Thats bcs Burheads favourite hobby is using his feelings as facts in every thread he opens up... Even if you provide him numbers, he just throw up tantrum and continues with his bullshit... Spreading misinformation among newbies...

 

Finally found that video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgrhrapJ-_w some inspiration when choosing green weapons... Rosar is similar to Krea..

maybe, idk anything about your little "forum wars" xD

But from my point of view all those "tests" that are done are kind of garbage. (didnt watch ur vid because im online via smartphone) Those are to monodimensional.. One type of opponent, one type of skill, etc.


Even if personal estimates (feelings) are inaccurate those might offer a broader view on gear.. Since it's been tested "allround" while grinding and stuff. U know what i mean?
In a game with that much "unknown" influences like bdo  it's not the worst to simply rely on feelings. Maybe :D

 

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Posted

maybe, idk anything about your little "forum wars" xD

But from my point of view all those "tests" that are done are kind of garbage. (didnt watch ur vid because im online via smartphone) Those are to monodimensional.. One type of opponent, one type of skill, etc.


Even if personal estimates (feelings) are inaccurate those might offer a broader view on gear.. Since it's been tested "allround" while grinding and stuff. U know what i mean?
In a game with that much "unknown" influences like bdo  it's not the worst to simply rely on feelings. Maybe :D

 

Ofc overall effect can be visible without tests done... But he msotly doesnt even know what he sees.. :D Thats the problem... :D 

Btw video is just comparison of few starting weapons on ranger and its kill speed on ogres using same rotation... No math there either, just the timer... But you know exactly what you are looking at,,,

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Posted

Jesus ...why would anyone use Rosar instead of Liverto. Sure liverto is cheaper but it will paid off later.

Difference is like 100-120mil ? Liverto can be used even in later stage of your gameplay until you get kzarka because difference between both is not that big except annoying crystal choice due to 3crit.

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Posted

Jesus ...why would anyone use Rosar instead of Liverto. Sure liverto rosar is cheaper but it will paid off later.

Difference is like 100-120mil ? Liverto can be used even in later stage of your gameplay until you get kzarka because difference between both is not that big except annoying crystal choice due to 3crit.

Gems are same for those two... Only Kzarka frees up attack speed slots... And 120M can be enough for someone to be able to buy Kzarka and not...  I am simply not fan of mid-tier gear... Get cheapest and most efefctve alternative and go for BiS with that...

But ofc if he dont plan on buying Kzarka, Liverto can be pretty good replacement...

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Posted

I meant rosar is cheaper and investment in liverto will paid off later.

 

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Posted

First of all, the personal feeling is, besides real test results, a very big factor for decision making. At least this is for myself. Kzarka weapon is without any questions the best weapon out of all, I tend to say for every single class cause atk speed / cast speed should be maxed out for all classes in my mind. Crit would be the next stat you want to max out for most classes, although warriors really don't need it.

I did my own testings last summer with many weapons without any official data or extremely big sample sizes. Those were little tests which provided information that was important for myself and convinced me in some points for decision making and I only can tell you my findings here. Could be wrong but think of it as you want:

Kzarka has best accuracy (Fact)
Liverto has second best accuracy (Fact)
Rosar/Krea have approximately the same accuracy which is between the Liverto and most of the vanilla weapons, just like yuria or bares in this case. (Own finding)
Yuria/Bares and other vanilla weapons with additional effects like human/species dmg etc. have the lowest accuracy. (Own finding)

Take this with a big grain of salt but imo this is how it works. So, what do I want to tell you? Well, obviously kzarka is your last goal but in the meantime I can recommend you to go with rosar or krea weapons, like I did myself. Liverto is not worth the cost imo, even if it's not that expensive. Ofc I speak for warrior class here.
Rosar/krea provide a good amount of accuracy, good AP and 2 crystal slots, which is very very nice and definintely much better than to go with the vanilla weapons. Skip liverto and stay with rosar/krea until you want to get a kzarka. They are very cheap and you have very few costs when repairing, you won't loose much money making or buying those weapons. If you really feel too weak, which I don't believe, you can go for liverto still.

Hope this helped you and others a bit in decision making. But keep in mind, these only were my own findings without any official data backing it up.

~Skulldemon

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Posted (edited)

i mean , if you want to  ASSUME, that rosar and krea weapons have the same accuracy as a yuria (which was tested to be one of the worst green mainhands for accuracy) then go ahead.

but sure go ahead, lets just assume yuria and rosar have the same accuracy , which is almost certainly not the case, you are paying out the nose relatively (assuming we are talking about newer players with a budget) to only gain accuracy both of which would be stepping stone items. just to have to give up a gem slot in your mainhands to get that 5 atk speed. because if you are using a liverto , you'd need 5 atk speed purely from gems and food, and as stated previously, relying on food/elixirs for atk speed can be a major pain in of itself. so lets assume your going to go for 5 atk speed in gems/gear alone which is not a stretch. you'd get 2 in gloves and you'd need 1 in your weapon, that means your gauranteed giving up depending on your gem of choice 2 accuracy and 10 ignore all res (if you pick precision) or between 3 and 5 ap (assuming you use power gems and/or are using a bmc carmae which is 7.8m on na, a fairly high price gem especially  for somebody who as stated would be on a budget)

then  AGAIN, take into account all that money that you did not spend on the liverto that you can spend on accuracy, like getting a higher enchant accuracy offhand, or red corals etc....

i mean yeah sure if somebody has the money to throw around getting a liverto is fine cause you dgaf about the gem differences and yes , there is more accuracy on it. but you all are failing to take into account the biggest point being the price difference on somebody who is most likely on a tighter budget, and cant afford to throw 100m around, if they could they'd probably just buy a zarka as they are not nearly as hard to come by as they used to be.

Edited by Burhead

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Posted

i mean , if you want to  ASSUME, that rosar and krea weapons have the same accuracy as a yuria (which was tested to be one of the worst green mainhands for accuracy) then go ahead.

but sure go ahead, lets just assume yuria and rosar have the same accuracy , which is almost certainly not the case, you are paying out the nose relatively (assuming we are talking about newer players with a budget) to only gain accuracy both of which would be stepping stone items. just to have to give up a gem slot in your mainhands to get that 5 atk speed. because if you are using a liverto , you'd need 5 atk speed purely from gems and food, and as stated previously, relying on food/elixirs for atk speed can be a major pain in of itself. so lets assume your going to go for 5 atk speed in gems/gear alone which is not a stretch. you'd get 2 in gloves and you'd need 1 in your weapon, that means your gauranteed giving up depending on your gem of choice 2 accuracy and 10 ignore all res (if you pick precision) or between 3 and 5 ap (assuming you use power gems and/or are using a bmc carmae which is 7.8m on na, a fairly high price gem especially  for somebody who as stated would be on a budget)

then  AGAIN, take into account all that money that you did not spend on the liverto that you can spend on accuracy, like getting a higher enchant accuracy offhand, or red corals etc....

i mean yeah sure if somebody has the money to throw around getting a liverto is fine cause you dgaf about the gem differences and yes , there is more accuracy on it. but you all are failing to take into account the biggest point being the price difference on somebody who is most likely on a tighter budget, and cant afford to throw 100m around, if they could they'd probably just buy a zarka as they are not nearly as hard to come by as they used to be.

Noone said that Yuria has same acc as other green weapons.. WTH are you smoking again?

Where the ----- are you losing 2 accuracy you -----ing dumb mofo? You lose only 10% ignore ressists, and get more accuracy and AD on top of it... Stop spreading bullshit again... Liverto is better than green weapons in every aspect but price... And price is the main reason i prefer green into kzarka over green into liverto into kzarka...

http://bdoplanner.com/save/[[5],[-1,0,[-1,-1]],[-1,0,[-1,-1]],[-1,0,[-1,-1]],[10963,0,[15116,15116]],[[-1,0],[-1,0]],[[-1,0],[-1,0]],[-1,0],[-1,0],[10069,0,[15201,15201]],[-1,0],[-1,0,[-1,-1]],[-1],[-1,[-1]],[-1],[-1],[-1],[-1]]

http://bdoplanner.com/save/[[5],[-1,0,[-1,-1]],[-1,0,[-1,-1]],[-1,0,[-1,-1]],[10963,0,[15116,15630]],[[-1,0],[-1,0]],[[-1,0],[-1,0]],[-1,0],[-1,0],[10009,0,[15025,15201]],[-1,0],[-1,0,[-1,-1]],[-1],[-1,[-1]],[-1],[-1],[-1],[-1]]

And even if you get every accuracy item in the game, you still wont be able to hit hard evasion stackers every time... So more acc never hurts...

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Posted (edited)

maybe, idk anything about your little "forum wars" xD

But from my point of view all those "tests" that are done are kind of garbage. (didnt watch ur vid because im online via smartphone) Those are to monodimensional.. One type of opponent, one type of skill, etc.


Even if personal estimates (feelings) are inaccurate those might offer a broader view on gear.. Since it's been tested "allround" while grinding and stuff. U know what i mean?
In a game with that much "unknown" influences like bdo  it's not the worst to simply rely on feelings. Maybe :D

 

I have never ran across a case where "feelings" are accurate at all. It's so easy for emotions to get wound up in the "testing." For example you're so overjoyed that you finally got your Dandy off the market, and you "feel" like it does 25% more damage than your ulti, because you "feel" so good about having gotten your Dandy. You can find lots of examples of this out in the non digital world too. Someone cuts their muffler off their car and "feels" like it's faster because it is louder. 

At the very least, a carefully controlled test can show things objectively and give you ballpark figures to work with. For example there's enough evidence at this point to surmise that a TRI Kzarka gives somewhere between 55 and 65 accuracy. There's also reasonable evidence showing that Liverto gives ~5 less accuracy than Kzarka.

You complain about the tests being monodimensional - it takes enough time to do a single set of tests in controlled conditions. Often many when trying to get a reasonable sample size. They tested it for themselves, with their items, their character, and their skills, for their own benefit, and were nice enough to post the results for you to read. But here you are complaining and expecting people to go out and repeat this over and over in different circumstances for YOUR benefit. 

It's always people like you who complain about test results, acting like you're some kind of research scientist who scoffs at us lesser beings, but you never bring anything to the table. Funny how that works. 

Edited by Kutsuu
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Posted

I have never ran across a case where "feelings" are accurate at all. It's so easy for emotions to get wound up in the "testing." For example you're so overjoyed that you finally got your Dandy off the market, and you "feel" like it does 25% more damage than your ulti, because you "feel" so good about having gotten your Dandy. You can find lots of examples of this out in the non digital world too. Someone cuts their muffler off their car and "feels" like it's faster because it is louder. 

At the very least, a carefully controlled test can show things objectively and give you ballpark figures to work with. For example there's enough evidence at this point to surmise that a TRI Kzarka gives somewhere between 55 and 65 accuracy. There's also reasonable evidence showing that Liverto gives ~5 less accuracy than Kzarka.

You complain about the tests being monodimensional - it takes enough time to do a single set of tests in controlled conditions. Often many when trying to get a reasonable sample size. They tested it for themselves, with their items, their character, and their skills, for their own benefit, and were nice enough to post the results for you to read. But here you are complaining and expecting people to go out and repeat this over and over in different circumstances for YOUR benefit. 

It's always people like you who complain about test results, acting like you're some kind of research scientist who scoffs at us lesser beings, but you never bring anything to the table. Funny how that works. 

I think he meant sth along the line, that if you are doin one thing long enough, you can tell at what state a thing is even without checking...

For example when a cake is finished in an owen you can tell just by looking without having to pierce it and check, after you get a bit used to it...

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Posted

Noone said that Yuria has same acc as other green weapons.. WTH are you smoking again?

Where the ----- are you losing 2 accuracy you -----ing dumb mofo? You lose only 10% ignore ressists, and get more accuracy and AD on top of it... Stop spreading bullshit again... Liverto is better than green weapons in every aspect but price... And price is the main reason i prefer green into kzarka over green into liverto into kzarka...

http://bdoplanner.com/save/[[5],[-1,0,[-1,-1]],[-1,0,[-1,-1]],[-1,0,[-1,-1]],[10963,0,[15116,15116]],[[-1,0],[-1,0]],[[-1,0],[-1,0]],[-1,0],[-1,0],[10069,0,[15201,15201]],[-1,0],[-1,0,[-1,-1]],[-1],[-1,[-1]],[-1],[-1],[-1],[-1]]

http://bdoplanner.com/save/[[5],[-1,0,[-1,-1]],[-1,0,[-1,-1]],[-1,0,[-1,-1]],[10963,0,[15116,15630]],[[-1,0],[-1,0]],[[-1,0],[-1,0]],[-1,0],[-1,0],[10009,0,[15025,15201]],[-1,0],[-1,0,[-1,-1]],[-1],[-1,[-1]],[-1],[-1],[-1],[-1]]

And even if you get every accuracy item in the game, you still wont be able to hit hard evasion stackers every time... So more acc never hurts...

kutsu literally said that so i was referring to kutsu when i said that, please -----ing pay attention.

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Posted (edited)

Go Rosar Sword and Vangertz Shield.  Take both to TRI until you're able to acquire a Kzarka.  Keep the Vangertz Shield until you reach the following:

1.  Level 60

2.  2x TRI RCE + TRI Tree Spirit Belt + BMC Viper & Precision(weapon) crystals OR Bheg's Gloves + 1x TRI RCE + 2x BMC Viper & 2x Precision(weapon) crystals.

OR just keep the Vangertz because the stat weight of the item is fantastic and you can dunk on evasion builds imo.

Liverto isn't a bad sword but the stats on it make it a hard choice mainly due to the +3 Crit which is useless in our kit versus the cost to get it to TRI or beyond.  Like everyone has suggested, if you're on a budget just stick with Rosar to TRI then eventually either enchant your Kzarka up or buy it on the MP.

Edited by Sarevok

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Posted

kutsu literally said that so i was referring to kutsu when i said that, please -----ing pay attention.

Oh yeah... reply to the first line and ignore rest of the post that points out other bullshit you said... :D

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Oh yeah... reply to the first line and ignore rest of the post that points out other bullshit you said... :D

because almost nothing you say is worth replying to , i offer to do a side by side test , that can even be recorded to have evidence one way or the other , not like you pay attention to that

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Posted

because almost nothing you say is worth replying to , i offer to do a side by side test , that can even be recorded to have evidence one way or the other , not like you pay attention to that

Look whos talking... :D once again i provided numbers, but loks like you cant even count to 5.. :D And you want to do tests... :D God help us, when idiots like these pretend they know sth...

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Posted

you havent provided shit , i copy pasted what you claim to have provided and all you said was ### dr  = ###% damage reduction , you didnt show anything about tests or anything. and now your chickening out of doing a side by side comparison. 

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Posted

you havent provided shit , i copy pasted what you claim to have provided and all you said was ### dr  = ###% damage reduction , you didnt show anything about tests or anything. and now your chickening out of doing a side by side comparison. 

Everything was provided.. Links, numbers... Just you are complete dumb-----... Same thing like now with sockets.. You just ignore it and cry here that people are mean to you, when you are right... Really you are one of the stupidest people i ever saw... Same shit like Plunge.. Making things up, while having no clue about basic math, lying, crying and then ignoring facts when they make you look like an idiot... :D

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Posted

i mean , if you want to  ASSUME, that rosar and krea weapons have the same accuracy as a yuria (which was tested to be one of the worst green mainhands for accuracy) then go ahead.

How can you not see the irony in this? Are you not assuming that Rosar has a lot more accuracy than Yuria? Are you not assuming that Rosar has a "small difference in accuracy" compared to Liverto? I asked you for evidence and all you had was feels...

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