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The psychology of RNG, and why it is doing more harm to the game than the devs realize..

86 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

It has just come to my attention why RNG really turns people off on this game, the first obvious reason is that it is quite simply unfair as it give everyone an altered progression path; but I realized there is an underlying reason why it is really bad for an MMO to have an RNG system, and it is because it is simply incompatible with another key component of an MMO.

What am I referring to here? I'm referring to the player's sense of progression. Arguably one of the most important parts that keep people invested in the game is a human's drive to fulfill a sense of progress. RNG completely throws this sense out the window, as it is impossible to determine whether or not you will actually progress; your mental map of progress is gone the moment you put an RNG barrier up to block a person's ability to project to a future state. Why is this ability to project to a future state so important? Because way back when, in caveman times, to survive humans had to be able to project ahead to avoid danger/hunt/etc..RNG creates uncertainty, and the player is unable to ascertain whether or not they will or will not progress through their efforts.

The point is, when the sense of progress is lost, whether a person leaves or stays with the game really comes down to whether they're a positive or negative thinker, and/or how lucky they are, or have been in the past. This in turn is going to lose a LOT of players. When the amount of time required to progress is indeterminable, you have no sense of progress anymore, and that sense of progress is essential for keeping people playing the game; making it an uncertainty is just going to hinder the sticking power of your game among a huge section of your playerbase.

(it is important to note that when I talk about "a sense of progress" i'm not referring to progress itself, but merely a person's ability to project their path of progress)

RNG as a standalone thing is without the sense of progress; a great example would be buying a lottery ticket. It is like progress without a path to progress; instead of projecting the progress you are instead putting your progress into the hands of the fates, leaving it to random chance. Your progress is no longer in your hands, but instead in the hands of the RNG gods, you're no longer responsible for your progress at this point.

What it seems you've tried to do with BDO is blend two incompatible things into one, however they simply can't be compatible because they're at complete opposite ends of the spectrum. You can't have a sense of progress (arguably the driving force for most playing MMOs) and the excitement of winning the lottery at the same time. You can only have one or the other; if you go for the lottery approach, the sense of progress is lost, you go for the sense of progress, you lose the excitement of gambling. They can't exist on the same continuum.

You could argue that both are achieved simultaneously because you can choose to grind up the money to buy an item off the auction house, but once again there are no guarantees with that method either. The only way to get a guaranteed chance at progress is to force yourself to confront the RNG. You could also argue that they've achieved both a sense of progress and RNG gambling by having the sense of progress come from leveling, and the RNG gambling coming from gear; but of course the problem there is that you cannot do one without the other; they both must be done hand in hand; what I mean to say is, you can level, but you're going to need gear to keep progressing; by doing this the two continuums of exp and gear enchantment become one and the same; and your sense of progress is lost once more.

Edited by Octia
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Posted

Random rpogress wouldnt be that much of a problem... Random step backwards is... You can manage your income, gear and failstacks and thats progress by itself... In you having more and more opportunities to move up... But when you are pushed backwards by every unsuccesful attempt, you can actually porgress in the opposite way... Thats the main and biggest problem... RNG in porgression is nothing knew (drops, crits etc)... Though one can argue there is more RNG than neccessary... But backwards progression is shit that should have never been let out from developer...

Progression and RNG can be ok if they are balanced smartly... Gear degradation is the main bullshit here...

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Posted

Devs obviously don't care

BDO has already paid for itself along with big fat profit. If BDO dies today they still got butt load of cash they can start over with a new game.

That is y Korean games are all RNG=P2W, it's the fastest way to guarantee the game pays for itself, much like how we HATE RNG, they don't want to deal with the RNG that the game may not pay for itself so they'll take the short and easy way that guarantees quick cash for them.

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Posted

anime-anime-boy-anime-boys-anime-girl-Fa

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Posted

Random rpogress wouldnt be that much of a problem... Random step backwards is... You can manage your income, gear and failstacks and thats progress by itself... In you having more and more opportunities to move up... But when you are pushed backwards by every unsuccesful attempt, you can actually porgress in the opposite way... Thats the main and biggest problem... RNG in porgression is nothing knew (drops, crits etc)... Though one can argue there is more RNG than neccessary... But backwards progression is shit that should have never been let out from developer...

Progression and RNG can be ok if they are balanced smartly... Gear degradation is the main bullshit here...

Market place RNG is also cancerous, if u ain't lucky enough to get a drop or win a lottery how much do u really have to pay to get ur Dande? Like 1 bil lol? Does the gap btw lucky a lucky player and an unlucky one has to be that HUGE? IMO it's horrible, just horrible design wise.

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Posted

-RNG is the master of everything in every aspect of this reality, there is always a 1% chance of anything happening good or bad.

-Don't bargain what you cannot afford to lose and always have a backup.

-Counting enchant failures as loss of progression is your problem here, it's an attempt at something better.

-Get a little spiritual and try to make enchanting as a ritual in some cool place, Koreans have a lot of respect for spirits and if you don't have respect by enchanting in town or in front of marketplace why would they grant you blessings?

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Posted

This game has so much RNG built into it that it's nearly impossible to change. Aside from all the RNG factors from enchanting (which is utter garbo btw) you also have the RNG system we call the auction house too. Literally everything in this game is rng. 

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Posted

-RNG is the master of everything in every aspect of this reality, there is always a 1% chance of anything happening good or bad.

-Don't bargain what you cannot afford to lose and always have a backup.

-Counting enchant failures as loss of progression is your problem here, it's an attempt at something better.

-Get a little spiritual and try to make enchanting as a ritual in some cool place, Koreans have a lot of respect for spirits and if you don't have respect by enchanting in town or in front of marketplace why would they grant you blessings?

This is the respect I have for the spirits of RNG

stone-cold-steve-austin-flipping-bird.jpg

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Posted

just buy your items. Enchanting is gambling. If you don't want to gamble let someone else do it for you and make a profit.

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Posted

just buy your items. Enchanting is gambling. If you don't want to gamble let someone else do it for you and make a profit.

This isn't a guarantee though, plus you're competing with everyone else thinking the same thing.

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Posted

This isn't a guarantee though, plus you're competing with everyone else thinking the same thing.

People say BDO isn't competitive and that is a lie. Only the luckiest and strongest survive.

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Posted

Personally I'm a fan of gambling, but I would really prefer a higher repair cost/stones than going backwards.

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Posted (edited)

People say BDO isn't competitive and that is a lie. Only the luckiest and strongest survive.

"People say BDO isn't competitive and that is a lie. Only the luckiest become the strongest and survive." This is what you mean right?

Edited by Zeel
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Posted

rng in this game spirals out of control so incredibly much its ridiculous 

 

2 kzarka tets costed me over 7bil in mats and im not even counting the time it took me to enchant/failstack etc and then some clown gets tet kzarka twice with less than 700m in his bank and later he gets pen after - get this - more than 10 fails (for pen, which means he got tet kzarka 10+ times and he already has full tet armors) and in teh end some completely random unskilled ape is sitting on 250+ ap with pen gear cause the rng in this game is broken + Rigged + fake +it spirals out of control so ridiculously hard its not even remotely funny , or balanced , or fair 

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Posted

This is the respect I have for the spirits of RNG

stone-cold-steve-austin-flipping-bird.jpg

2017-04-16-12-52-19--1199007988.jpg

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Posted

I wonder if Uwe Boll is the lead game developer at pearl abyss. Gear enhancement is horrible in this game, and to me it can only still exist as it is because someone high up is immensely proud of what it is.

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Posted

To be honest i never felt like i wasn't progressing, unless i just wasn't doing anything because there are so many things i could do or wanted to do that i became indecisive. While there is a lot of RNG in bdo, all games have it in some form. Sure, it may suck to fail an enchant with 50 fail stacks, but when i finally get that enchant it is way more satisfying to me than, say, getting an end game item drop in some end game raid. People say that RNG and the Grind in this game are cancer, but that's exactly what it is in other games, you grind the same dungeon/raid for an item that may or may not drop. Same mobs every time. Maybe the drop rates are higher, but it is there. BDO just has more RNG and in different areas. I guess i just have a different mindset than others. I don't know, maybe coming from playing MMOs with a much harder grind and drop rate may have humbled me.

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Posted

The psychology of gamblers and gambling, in MMOs and everywhere else. Why does it exist?

Because, profit. Have you heard of any casinos actually losing money, or many of their "customers" ending up rich?

BDO is no different, in fact it lies somewhere in the middle (borderline high) in the RNG / gamble scale, certainly not the worst. End of story.

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Posted

just buy your items. Enchanting is gambling. If you don't want to gamble let someone else do it for you and make a profit.

Buying items would be great

IF there was any items to actually buy, how many boss armour/weapons do you see listed on the MP compared to the thousands of players who all want to buy them

You have little choice but to enchant yourself IF you're lucky to get boss items, I've blown 100million silver today trying to get bheg gloves from 14 to 15 using a proper FS methods

The gloves are STILL +14 after all that, a weeks worth of grinding for nothing, the other choice is I save the silver, sure I might have 100million silver but with no items to actually buy off the MP the result is the same, nothing, no progression because 100million sitting in a warehouse offers nothing to enhance my gameplay

All we want is something to show for our efforts

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Posted

-Counting enchant failures as loss of progression is your problem here, it's an attempt at something better.

the whole 'you need to fail to succeed' is so messed up I am at a loss at how to describe my feelings on this without getting banned.

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Posted

the whole 'you need to fail to succeed' is so messed up I am at a loss at how to describe my feelings on this without getting banned.

Then take a break and kickback relax, if everything was easy nothing would be meaningful and everyone would have maxed out and left the game.

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Posted

All i hear is qq and entitle dumb asses. Stfu and play the game or stfu n qq 4ever about rng. Gg sons, die to the black spirit for you noobs havent got PEN!!!!

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Posted

The problem is the going backwards in gear progression upon a failure. Failing on an RNG based enchanting system is ok if you maintain the current stat, its the going down a tier that kills it for majority of the playerbase.

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Posted (edited)

RNG is time and progression. It is the spiritual motivator and key to success for all, either you are bad or good, we all get there sooner or later, one way or another. It is the journey, the sugar ontop, instead of having new gear every few patches-World of Warcraft-style.

 

The trick is to have backups, either in coin or additional crafts, so that you are not punished for your bold push.

Edited by Nacario

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Posted

Is there at least one guy geared with full PEN in KR ?

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