• Announcements

    • IMPORTANT - REACH US IN THE NEW FORUM   05/04/2017

      Ladies and gentlemen ATTENTION please:
      It's time to move into a new house!
        As previously announced, from now on IT WON'T BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE THREADS OR REPLY in the old forums. From now on the old forums will be readable only. If you need to move/copy/migrate any post/material from here, feel free to contact the staff in the new home. We’ll be waiting for you in the NEW Forums!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php

      *New features and amazing tools are waiting for you, even more is yet to come in the future.. just like world exploration in BDO leads to new possibilities.
      So don't be afraid about changes, click the link above and follow us!
      Enjoy and see you on the other side!  
    • WICHTIG: Das Forum ist umgezogen!   05/04/2017

      Damen und Herren, wir bitten um Eure Aufmerksamkeit, es ist an der Zeit umzuziehen!
        Wie wir bereits angekündigt hatten, ist es ab sofort nicht mehr möglich, neue Diskussionen in diesem Forum zu starten. Um Euch Zeit zu geben, laufende Diskussionen abzuschließen, könnt Ihr noch für zwei Wochen in offenen Diskussionen antworten. Danach geht dieses Forum hier in den Ruhestand und das NEUE FORUM übernimmt vollständig.
      Das Forum hier bleibt allerdings erhalten und lesbar.   Neue und verbesserte Funktionen warten auf Euch im neuen Forum und wir arbeiten bereits an weiteren Erweiterungen.
      Wir sehen uns auf der anderen Seite!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php Update:
      Wie angekündigt könen ab sofort in diesem Forum auch keine neuen Beiträge mehr veröffentlicht werden.
    • IMPORTANT: Le nouveau forum   05/04/2017

      Aventurières, aventuriers, votre attention s'il vous plaît, il est grand temps de déménager!
      Comme nous vous l'avons déjà annoncé précédemment, il n'est désormais plus possible de créer de nouveau sujet ni de répondre aux anciens sur ce bon vieux forum.
      Venez visiter le nouveau forum!
      https://community.blackdesertonline.com
      De nouvelles fonctionnalités ainsi que de nouveaux outils vous attendent dès à présent et d'autres arriveront prochainement! N'ayez pas peur du changement et rejoignez-nous! Amusez-vous bien et a bientôt dans notre nouveau chez nous

The psychology of RNG, and why it is doing more harm to the game than the devs realize..

86 posts in this topic

Posted

Watch this

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Watch this

 

This is a complete bastardization of the concept of luck. Just because you run into something beyond your skill, does not mean that It falls into the category of luck, it still falls under skill. A comment under the video actually summarizes it quite well  :                    

 
I think your definition of luck is getting a little fluffy. Yes, we are all human and humans make mistakes, but those mistakes are controlled by us. Luck is "success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions." If our mistakes are purely a result of our own actions, then that is not luck by definition."

 

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

There should be some kind of meter that you fill up per enchant level, that the more you try to enchant that tier, the easier it'll be to get back at that level.

It's a pain in the ass to go back pri and can't even duo something when you have 35+fs.

I lol when I see enchant guides that say make sure you have alts with stacks so you could get back to the level you lost when you try for enchant.

That's like saying, make sure you have money to buy another lotto ticket to win back your losses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

yep, rng in this game is a cancer, its not used to "improove" the game, but just to be annoying and push ppl to use the cash shop.

 

Devs ofc dont care since its very tight with their buisiness / money milking. And not saying, that i dont know how we can count on kakaoEu to report things to the kr headquarder. Since thoses guys have just No communication AT ALL,...

Watch this

 

No need to watch a random youtuber to get that :

- yes RNG is always a nice thing to add unpredictable event ( so face "many" different situation ) in a game; BUT it also have to let player IN CHARGE

- A BDO RNG, is a 100% casino like rng, where, whatever what you do, the RNG is the only single thing that will determine if you "go to the next step" = Players arent in charge at all.

And, even thoses "step" are in the end always the exact same repeated things = You dont even have "gamplay variety / evolution" inbetween of thoses gambling attempt.

 

BDO just provide the worse possible """""""progression"""""" design.

Edited by woots

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

The problem i have with bdo and its rng is that it is involved in everything. Fights, horse breeding, event's, market bids, enchanting, pre orders, pet breeding, skills for horses, GM reapones, aura drops, the list goes on and on. If that wasn't worse enough hidden stats, incomplete descriptions like that some food buffs dont work in pvp but nothing is mentioned about that on the food descriptions at all. This game is so rng heavy combine that with the hidden bs and you have a game where their is no certainty. That leads to false information spreading because most people present their hypothesis as fact and people dont know what to believe anymore. Some people do test thing's but since so much is hidden of the devs decide to chance something those tests become utterly useless. To top it all off even the publisher is so quiet on these matters it breeds even more confusion and discontent. All in the name of some devs artistic vision. 

But i digress, the best we might get on a topic like this is the lucky players who tells the unlucky ones to git guud aka git lucky is what they mean to say, or some bs gm response like info has been sent to PA never to be heard from again. Really why bother anymore nothing is going to chance and our publisher does nothing but hide in the shadows of this forum like the spineless people they are. The last gm that could give a damn was the penguin guy, but he sadly left. Atleast he had a spine to come out and face the music but the rest of them don't.

Like the advisor of shogun 2 use to say, our men (GM's) are running from the battlefield (Forum), shameful display!

 

8 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Ive grown to actually enjoy RNG, if you play smart the whole "progressing backwards" aspect can be completely avoided or at least easily recoverable. Of course you have to be patient and build resources.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Is there at least one guy geared with full PEN in KR ?

just a google finding ;o but can't say if its false or not cos I dont know korean language to read up stuffz :c

q8qb525jbpwx.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I came into this game hating rng because of other games. So unless you haven't play other games with rng or rng boxes it will be a rude awakening. It could be a lot worse though not being able to buy outfits for in game silver been pearl shop only or my favorite outfits in rng boxes cough cough nexon.  So yeah rng is a freaking pain in my opinion so i can see how some people can be traumatized by it. RNG is there for game companies to benefit them and not the player I can tell you that much if $$$ is involved >.>

Edited by Dalenos
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

just buy your items. Enchanting is gambling. If you don't want to gamble let someone else do it for you and make a profit.

Pretty much this. I am fine with the games current state of gearing. I am not fine however with the dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of threads that beat this subject to death at no purpose to the community other than to build toxicity. Since that is all these threads end in,and the ends don't justify the means.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I thought I was progressing when I made 1.7 bil to fund some Cron Stones PEN attempt on my Heve Helmet. I had 106 stacks, so 17.4% chance to suceed at every attempt with 106 Cron Stones per attempt. I thought it would be easy; perhaps even I'd have more for that second PEN stacks I was building up quite well on another char (Yeah... My TETs also refuse to TET even at 110 stacks, so I don't care--> All has 0% chance to suceed for TET for me)

Well. 16 attempt later, I realized what just happened had 5% chance to happen: 16 PEN fails in a row. 

Then, I get a larger PEN stacks on main char. So I currently have 117 stacks, and that old 106.  This is not progression.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

BDO is nothing but a casino. 

Only stupid brainless idiots fall for that kind of primitive tricks. There are so many more ppl that don't ever buy a single lottery ticket than the idiots who buy those. Because even a monkey is probably smart enough to know gambling is fraud.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

The enchanting system in this game can definitely be toxic as hell... 

 

That said, having gotten all my boss gear to TET and accessories to a mediocre BiS DUO... High risk enchants are the only way I can get my rocks off in this game anymore lol 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

RNG really sucks when the odds are unknown or really low.

Having your progress wiped from content updates, to renew a gear grind, also sucks.

MMO Games need to find a long term progress that doesn't seem too daunting or infuriating.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

BDO is nothing but a casino. 

Only stupid brainless idiots fall for that kind of primitive tricks. There are so many more ppl that don't ever buy a single lottery ticket than the idiots who buy those. Because even a monkey is probably smart enough to know gambling is fraud.

lotteries are a tax on the poor and the weak.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

lotteries are a tax on the poor and the weak.

It's funny how idiots are using their welfare tickets to gamble in real life. Gambling is for losers, it's sad that BDO has a system that doesn't allow u to escape RNG=gambling at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

BDO is a dice game.

yes, dice games are fun.

the world doesn't consist only of players who don't like card games, board games, dice games, other rng games, they are not harmful, they will not be redesigned because you don't like it.

if you do psychological babble, you should start with yourself, why you keep playing dice games when you absolutely hate them. and then feel you need to tell the whole world about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

BDO is a dice game.

yes, dice games are fun.

the world doesn't consist only of players who don't like card games, board games, dice games, other rng games, they are not harmful, they will not be redesigned because you don't like it.

if you do psychological babble, you should start with yourself, why you keep playing dice games when you absolutely hate them. and then feel you need to tell the whole world about it.

Cuz RNG is not the selling point of BDO. The selling point of BDO is graphics, open world, non-targeting style gameplay. 

If BDO is advertised as a casino game where everything is ----ing RNG I wouldn't even installed it.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

RNG here RNG there... The probabilities in this game are so ridiculously low like drop rate of rare items, enchanting high end gear & accessories that the result is pretty much deterministic... you will fail.

You need to have crapload of resources in game to try enchanting something higher. Players who try enchant higher enchants & dont have crapload of resources to back it up will end up in regressing their gear, progress & then cry about RNG on forums.

When you go for higher enchants expect fail so you can prepare in before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

rng in this game spirals out of control so incredibly much its ridiculous 

 

2 kzarka tets costed me over 7bil in mats and im not even counting the time it took me to enchant/failstack etc and then some clown gets tet kzarka twice with less than 700m in his bank and later he gets pen after - get this - more than 10 fails (for pen, which means he got tet kzarka 10+ times and he already has full tet armors) and in teh end some completely random unskilled ape is sitting on 250+ ap with pen gear cause the rng in this game is broken + Rigged + fake +it spirals out of control so ridiculously hard its not even remotely funny , or balanced , or fair 

Balanced? Maybe, maybe not, it's subjective. Fair? Yes, randomness is the ultimate equality, it doesn't care who you are, it'll treat you just the same as everyone else, just some get more favorable results than others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I gave on the rng a long time ago. I just either stick with easy to buy outdated gear that can be easily bought tri or higher.....if I do enchant I'll use cron stones. I don't care if they're "worth it" or not.....they keep me sain and that's worth it imo. black desert is nothing more then a placeholder til ashes of creation is playable for me at this point anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

just some get more favorable results than others.

that's ultimate unfairness there

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Hm, 

Balanced? Maybe, maybe not, it's subjective. Fair? Yes.

Going to disagree with both statements for the following reasons : 

  • Computer RNG isn't "Random" : 

Steve Ward (computer scientist) - "One thing that traditional computer systems aren’t good at is coin flipping. They’re deterministic, On a completely deterministic machine you can’t generate anything you could really call a random sequence of numbers because the machine is following the same algorithm to generate them."

Which translate to, the "Random" generated numbers follow a Pattern, regardless how complex the pattern can be made, there is no denying that it exist, which logically present a chance for it to be manipulated and used to destroy what ever "Balance" was supposed to be created.

  • Equality over time :

The previous point would destroy this concept, but let's focus on a different key word :

Time - inside a perfectly randomized environment, it still quite hard to create "Equality", the distribution lucky/unlucky rolls for 2 independents Targets, will be different based on time spent = just like it's possible to have several successive lucky hits in a short period of time, it's also possible to gain minimal lucky hits for a long period of time,  and in this case it's highly Dependant whether both Targets will continue going through this environment or not = a Full Time cycle to balance the gains, will rarely happen.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Το people that say they like rng... i hope you guys only stay to this game and never ever get into a casino.. For your own good. 

RNG is the cancer of any game that respects its self. Its futile its stupid.. and in a machine you can never really call it random. There is a pattern. Bad, good but a pattern. Theres people in the game that have drops and easy tets, tris just because of the pattern. Put that on top of the bad descriptions..the lack of meaningfull PVE,the siege/node wars joke.. hidden stats, RNG on even how big your tard is.. and you get BDO. I think i havent seen a more perfect game to be played until you find something better to play than BDO.. Maybe archage, but from what ive read.. never played that shit fest thank god. the only way to play BDO and not be disheartened to the ground is the casual one.. The one way you dont really care. Just enjoy its graphics.. its gameplay, on short scale ofcourse cause in mass this game is RIDICULOUS. And ofcourse understand ONE THING. 

KOREANS DONT GIVE A -----. AND THEY ARE THE ONES MAKING THE CALLS. 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites