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Valk PVP Matchups

34 posts in this topic

Posted

Aside from bugs, balance complaints, and such, this forum doesn't seem to have a tonne of active discussion going on. So let's start some!

A) Which 1v1 matchups do you find most favourable to Valk? Why?

B) Which classes are the hardest to 1v1 as a Valk? Why?

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Posted

A) Any class that doesn't have a grab : musa, meahwa, witch..etc

 

B) Warrior. Both warrior and valk have super armor/block so whoever can open with grab wins. Warrior has longer grab range and switches to sword/shield faster to grab.

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Posted

Hardest matchups for me are Zerk and Warrior.

Easiest matchups for me are... hmm... idk everyone else i guess is about equal

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Posted

@xcandykitten and @Derpinakolala

What tactics do you guys use on those classes? Warrior and Zerk. 
lol, I'm still low gear score so I'm just keeping the dream alive by educating myself on how to fight haha.

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Posted

From my experience:

  • there is no way to defeat warrior, berserker, wizard and witch
  • there is pretty easy to win with ninja, kuno and sorc (it always shock me why, because overall sorc is far better class)
  • all other classes have slight advantage over valk

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Posted

@xcandykitten and @Derpinakolala

What tactics do you guys use on those classes? Warrior and Zerk. 
lol, I'm still low gear score so I'm just keeping the dream alive by educating myself on how to fight haha.

zerks are mostly just don't let them get close enough to grab you. when you see them running at you with lava peircer you have about half a second to gtfo or it's GG. 

For warrior, it's mostly anticipating the grab. if they are super aggressive there's not a lot you can do, but if they take a second to hold block, you have a little bit of time to prepare for them to attack. just get ready to grab them.

From my experience:

  • there is no way to defeat warrior, berserker, wizard and witch
  • there is pretty easy to win with ninja, kuno and sorc (it always shock me why, because overall sorc is far better class)
  • all other classes have slight advantage over valk

when fighting witch, you wait for their little breaks inbetween casts and grab them.
You can also stun them while they are casting fissure wave. 
Their little long range KD isn't SA either so when they are sitting there spamming it trying to break block u can get in their face. 
Mostly you just need enough AP to 1 combo them, or get lucky after they waste their 100% heal. 

Wizard is a bit more difficult than witch (I think witch is really easy honestly) but the same concept applies. grab them mid casts, stun them when they don't have SA. 

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Posted

I build my valk a little different than most. I use 2 RBF power gem and 2 Melee AP gems. Cause valk grab is pretty short range and the switching from lance to sword is pretty slow, so I don't bother grabbing at all. Just go full AP and trade small hits against warrior. If I knock him down, I have lots of AP to one shot him. If not, just do small trade till I do cc him.

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Posted (edited)

At higher levels of gear (475+), the match ups look something like this in my opinion.

Very Hard:
Berserker: Grab chain is nearly impossible to escape, and it's very difficult to stack enough defenses to be able to withstand a full combo. 
Warrior: Constant super armor, and a much better grab than we have mean that we can't CC them, but they can CC us, assuming they don't slip up. 

Somewhat Hard:
Tamer: Stacking defenses seems to be useless against a geared tamer; they deal way too much damage, i-frames for days. 
Witch: Strong block, reliable CC, big damage; can't stack enough defenses to withstand them without not having enough AP to kill them.
Dark Knight: I-frames for days, lots of accuracy on kit, and solid damage; catching them is the hard part. 

Average:
Wizard: Skill match up; the only threat from them is their damage, and we can avoid CC fairly easily, just don't get grappled. 
Ranger: If you catch them, you can almost certainly kill them, and if you're gearing smart, they won't be able to do the same to you. 

Somewhat Easy:
Sorceress: Pretty easy to shut them down with guard; don't take too many risks, and don't get knocked down. 
Ninja: The only threat is the grapple train, which isn't very reliable; learn to read the block jump.
Kunoichi: Like sorc, but with a grapple, fewer i-frames, and trading burst for longer combos. 

Very Easy:
Musa: Shut them down with guard, make sure to hit confirm combos out of moves that don't involve leaving guard.
Maehwa: Same as above, with less DPS, but more burst; slightly more vulnerable as well. 

This is assuming HP potions are allowed.
If they aren't, some match ups change in difficulty. 

Edited by StrykNyne
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Posted

I build my valk a little different than most. I use 2 RBF power gem and 2 Melee AP gems. Cause valk grab is pretty short range and the switching from lance to sword is pretty slow, so I don't bother grabbing at all. Just go full AP and trade small hits against warrior. If I knock him down, I have lots of AP to one shot him. If not, just do small trade till I do cc him.

Tell me, how do you switch from lance to sword?

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Posted

Tell me, how do you switch from lance to sword

 

I used to do celestial spear or turn my camera to the side then Shift+D/A. But now I don't feel like putting my 80% crit buff on cd just for a short range grab that will get resisted . The shift+D/A trick works sometimes but against highly mobile people, it will usually get me killed. 

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Posted (edited)

100% crit if you use the skill add on with 20% crit for celestial spear. you should do so.

use your grab in a combo. shift + LMB, w + f , s + e, e. This is the only way I use the grab and it works fine. the crit is not wasted, because you turn with promtness into lance after grab and use castigatio. castigatio works MUCH faster after promtness. and then you can give him the blitz stab too. awesome combo. if you finsih it, it's almost rdy again.

by the way. blitz stap has 100% crit. it's perfect as last attack if your crit buff from the spear is over.

Edited by Ybera

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Posted

100% crit if you use the skill add on with 20% crit for celestial spear. you should do so.

use your grab in a combo. shift + LMB, w + f , s + e, e. This is the only way I use the grab and it works fine. the crit is not wasted, because you turn with promtness into lance after grab and use castigatio. castigatio works MUCH faster after promtness. and then you can give him the blitz stab too. awesome combo. if you finsih it, it's almost rdy again.

by the way. blitz stap has 100% crit. it's perfect as last attack if your crit buff from the spear is over.

There is one problem with using grab in combo though. Cause I focus on AP rather than ignore resist, low gear people usually die very fast before I switch to grab and high gear people usually just resist the grab. 

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Posted

I build my valk a little different than most. I use 2 RBF power gem and 2 Melee AP gems. Cause valk grab is pretty short range and the switching from lance to sword is pretty slow, so I don't bother grabbing at all. Just go full AP and trade small hits against warrior. If I knock him down, I have lots of AP to one shot him. If not, just do small trade till I do cc him.

Don't get it. Because you said that you don't use grab because it's too slow to switch from sword to lance. but nevermind ;)

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Posted (edited)

I build my valk a little different than most. I use 2 RBF power gem and 2 Melee AP gems. Cause valk grab is pretty short range and the switching from lance to sword is pretty slow, so I don't bother grabbing at all. Just go full AP and trade small hits against warrior. If I knock him down, I have lots of AP to one shot him. If not, just do small trade till I do cc him.

Grabbing is a nice easy way to net a win against warriors, if you can track their CDs; but you need to have a decent amount of resist penetration to make it reliable. 2*BMC Precision weapon helps a lot, if you have high enough AP without RBF - Power (200+ Sheet). 

I can't recommend the BMC - Viper, or MCI/BMC Precision glove crystals enough, though; the accuracy trumps 2 melee AP by FAR. 

 

use your grab in a combo. shift + LMB, w + f , s + e, e. This is the only way I use the grab and it works fine. the crit is not wasted, because you turn with promtness into lance after grab and use castigatio. castigatio works MUCH faster after promtness. and then you can give him the blitz stab too. awesome combo. if you finsih it, it's almost rdy again

Honestly, once you hit higher levels, Hastiludium (W+F) becomes a very valuable damage skill, and using it without the buff from celestial spear is a bit of a waste, imo. Also, Castigatio doesn't have super-armor/frontal-guard, which makes it a bit of a liability in anything but a 1v1 scenario. 

Realistically, I'd probably go Purificatione (Stun) > Celestial Spear (Knockdown + Buff) > Promptness > Hastiludium (Down Smash) > Blitz Stab/Castigatio. If they're still alive at that point, switch into Punishment > Promptness > Castigatio/Blitz Stab

You can also use Punishment out of Shining Dash, or Shield Chase from awakening.

There is one problem with using grab in combo though. Cause I focus on AP rather than ignore resist, low gear people usually die very fast before I switch to grab and high gear people usually just resist the grab. 

Realistically speaking, you shouldn't be using your grab unless you have ignore resist in your gear; almost no one runs grapple resist, so you can get away with 20-30%

Edited by StrykNyne
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Posted

Honestly, once you hit higher levels, Hastiludium (W+F) becomes a very valuable damage skill, and using it without the buff from celestial spear is a bit of a waste, imo. Also, Castigatio doesn't have super-armor/frontal-guard, which makes it a bit of a liability in anything but a 1v1 scenario.

it was based on a 1 vs 1 situation. in mass pvp i usually don't use the grab. and yes, hastiludium with 100% crit is killer. but on a 1 vs 1 situation I prefer the "safe" grab. it's very easy to make it work with hastuldium because it's on point and fast as hell.

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Posted

it was based on a 1 vs 1 situation. in mass pvp i usually don't use the grab. and yes, hastiludium with 100% crit is killer. but on a 1 vs 1 situation I prefer the "safe" grab. it's very easy to make it work with hastuldium because it's on point and fast as hell.

You can get a cheesy desync grab if you lead with sword & board, and forward shield chase into punishment. 

Still keeps celestial spear up, and you can use hastiludium for a down smash to extend the combo. 

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Posted

I build my valk a little different than most. I use 2 RBF power gem and 2 Melee AP gems. Cause valk grab is pretty short range and the switching from lance to sword is pretty slow, so I don't bother grabbing at all. Just go full AP and trade small hits against warrior. If I knock him down, I have lots of AP to one shot him. If not, just do small trade till I do cc him.

I think its pretty much impossible to cc a skilled warrior if you dont grapple.

Realistically, I'd probably go Purificatione (Stun) > Celestial Spear (Knockdown + Buff) > Promptness > Hastiludium (Down Smash) > Blitz Stab/Castigatio. If they're still alive at that point, switch into Punishment > Promptness > Castigatio/Blitz Stab

If you are in a 1v1, its highly unlikely to open a cc chain with Purification as your opponent also engages you with iframes or frontblocks and Purification is shortranged and not really fast.

What I found while testing the lingering superarmor is, that you can CS out of awakening shield, dash straight into the witchcasting with righteous charge and grapple her followed by hastiludium and blitzstab.

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Posted

if the gear is equal (and block is working):

my quotes that I would consider:

 

male Mage or female mage : 25:75 for valk

Bersi 10:90 for Bersi

Warrior 30:70 for Warrior

Sorc 40:60 for Valk

Musa: 1:99 Valk

Ninja 20:80 Valk

Maewa : 60:40 Maewa

Ranger: 30:70 Valk

Tamer: 50:50 both

DK: 30:70 dk

Kunoichi: 30:70 Valk

Striker: 100:0 Striker #strikerwhen

 

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Posted (edited)

I think its pretty much impossible to cc a skilled warrior if you dont grapple.

If you are in a 1v1, its highly unlikely to open a cc chain with Purification as your opponent also engages you with iframes or frontblocks and Purification is shortranged and not really fast.

What I found while testing the lingering superarmor is, that you can CS out of awakening shield, dash straight into the witchcasting with righteous charge and grapple her followed by hastiludium and blitzstab.

I find that righteous charge is often more of a liability than anything. I generally use it for escaping rather than engaging.
I'd much rather initiate with Shining Dash, it
's quite a bit safer, despite having a longer cooldown

Something like: Shining Dash > Punishment > Celestial Spear > Promptness > Hastiludium > Blitz Stab should do the trick against anyone not stacking evasion. 

Also, Purificatione has pretty good range, and works as a great catch if you can time it right. 

Edited by StrykNyne

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Posted

I find that righteous charge is often more of a liability than anything. I generally use it for escaping rather than engaging.
I'd much rather initiate with Shining Dash, it
's quite a bit safer, despite having a longer cooldown

Something like: Shining Dash > Punishment > Celestial Spear > Promptness > Hastiludium > Blitz Stab should do the trick against anyone not stacking evasion. 

Also, Purificatione has pretty good range, and works as a great catch if you can time it right. 

How are you supposed to engage with shining dash? The slowest charge in game with a huge windup time, 40sec cooldown and almost impossible to Change direction while charging. And why is it safer? The method I mentioned applies superarmor to your righteous charge as fas as I can tell,

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Posted

if the gear is equal (and block is working):

my quotes that I would consider:

 

male Mage or female mage : 25:75 for valk

Bersi 10:90 for Bersi

Warrior 30:70 for Warrior

Sorc 40:60 for Valk

Musa: 1:99 Valk

Ninja 20:80 Valk

Maewa : 60:40 Maewa

Ranger: 30:70 Valk

Tamer: 50:50 both

DK: 30:70 dk

Kunoichi: 30:70 Valk

Striker: 100:0 Striker #strikerwhen

 

male Mage or female mage : 20:80 for valk

Bersi 30:70 for Bersi

Warrior 40:60 for Warrior

Sorc 40:60 for Valk

Musa: 30:70 Valk

Ninja 65:45 Ninja

Maewa : 50:50 both

Ranger: 30:70 Valk

Tamer: 50:50 both

DK: 30:70 dk

Kunoichi: 60:40 kuno

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Posted

How are you supposed to engage with shining dash? The slowest charge in game with a huge windup time, 40sec cooldown and almost impossible to Change direction while charging. And why is it safer? The method I mentioned applies superarmor to your righteous charge as fas as I can tell,

I generally try to use it when they're caught up in an animation; it's especially impactful against witch/wiz/zerk.

I've been knocked out of it even after using CS; though, I haven't tested it in a while
God knows something could have changed since preawakening

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Posted

I generally try to use it when they're caught up in an animation; it's especially impactful against witch/wiz/zerk.
I've been knocked out of it even after using CS; though, I haven't tested it in a while
God knows something could have changed since preawakening

You Need to be in awakening shield before to trigger the lingering superarmor, which actually exist but somehow vanishes as soon as you use certain skills. But as far as I have tested it stays with CS + RC.

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Posted

You Need to be in awakening shield before to trigger the lingering superarmor, which actually exist but somehow vanishes as soon as you use certain skills. But as far as I have tested it stays with CS + RC.

Follow up testing to come!

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Posted


Something like: Shining Dash > Punishment > Celestial Spear > Promptness > Hastiludium > Blitz Stab should do the trick against anyone not stacking evasion. 
 

For my part I would never use blitz stab directly after hastilidium because it's a waste of one of the both main attacks we have. I would suggest to add always promptness > castigatio. If you use it in this way, you will never run out of main attacks and you have no downtimes. always start with hastilidium attack combo, because if the crit buff from the spears runs out, blitz stab makes the 100% crit. In my eyes the perfect attack combos:

always start with celestial spear > hastilidium > promptness > castigatio and as second attack blitz stab > promptness > castigatio. castigatio is SO nice after promptness.

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