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BDO: An MMORPG still lacking PvE


41 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

For the most part I have enjoyed BDO and what it brought. It's desire to be unique and create a player driven world where the players create the world and Dynamics around them. It's delivered in some aspects for sure. Our markets are pretty stable, the guild interaction and wars are lively. But aside from those few things where players are actively changing or influencing, what about the rest of the game? 

Have you ever asked yourself "what's the world BDO resides in"?  "Where's the history"? "Where's the quests that delve further into the lore"? "Does BDO have mythical items"? Things like this are far and few. While we may have our boss gear which we get through RNG, perhaps we're getting too much RNG? I log into BDO and don't feel like I'm playing the genre I fell in love with as a kid. Forget WoW, I'm talking about my first, RuneScape. You know where you paid a subscription if you wanted, but regardless of P2P or f2p there was always something to do and look forward to?

Quests that were interesting, hidden areas that gave special equipment (also RNG based) but had a massive story and interesting interactions behind them? Barrows catacombs,y first green dragon kill, monkey madness questline, etc. There was so much, I barely remember all the specifics but vividly recall the experience, the emotions and the relevance of it all as it connected to my play everyday.

In BDO I don't have that same connection or experience. I feel as if my high in BDO doesn't come from exploration, questing or even playing the game, but from finally overcoming the massive money sink that is enhancements rng. It's so bad I budget my monthly income around upgrades due to the cash shop being so necessary to competitive upgrades/progression. I never felt that way in RuneScape. Different business models but does the model impact the genre that much?

I remember the early reviews of the game and even my own expectations. Everyone knew the game lacked a true "end game". No raids, no dungeons. However we hoped that with time they would start to add things a more typical MMORPG would have, to round out thier game and really become an idealized version of an MMORPG we wanted. Great combat, decent PvP If you're into that and an immersive world to explore, role play and enjoy. Instead we get more things to mindlessly grind, balance changes that are ignited by demand of popular belief, and items/new areas that are hardly upgrades of previous places or things with little to no incentive to do them. Not even from a story standpoint. 

So I guess what I'm saying is, I know why BDO is starting to really bore me and alot of others. Why the thought of even logging in feels like a massive burnout, why life Skilling or participating in events feels like at best a chore and usually an inconvenient time waster. It's because the game isn't trying to immerse us into a developed world, it's trying it's best to distract us from the glaring issues. BDO for as much as I've enjoyed the few things they got right, is massively incomplete. It's missing alot of the basics and the only way to find meaningful enjoyment is to settle for an incomplete product that honestly requires a hefty amount of money after the initial purchase to even enjoy.

You don't even have to be wanting to PvP competitively, the only consistent new things in game come by way of microtransaction. 

Thoughts?

Edited by Nexius
I was on my phone and had to do evening colors.
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Posted (edited)

Idk, OP has some interesting thoughts here. I use to obsess over trying to get BiS items but once you have them. Then you enhance them up, but to do what with.  PvP? Now, i dont share the same opinion as OP about "needing" to spend money to enhance my gear as i just take my time fishing to get relics for scrolls. Now ive never liked how in order to actually look decent you have to pay money. They spend tremendous amount of time making costumes to sell   Instead of branching out with more in game equipment options. But thats just my opinion. 

Just seems even with all the depth and detailed life systems, they all still seem shallow with "what to do next"

Maybe im just missing something?

 

just had another thought. Maybe the issue is replay ability?  Sure many cool areas things to see and do, but beyond the forced grind of the area what replay is there?

Edited by Majorapplesauce

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Posted (edited)

The ----- drugs are you guys on?

Here, pro tip in life, if I may be so arrogant.

STOP LISTENING TO EVERYONE TO GET YOUR OPINION BASED ON THEIR OPINIONS.

U are gearing for Sieges, Node Wars, Territory Owning, Future Naval Combat (for nodes) etc..

If you don't care for PVP you are gearing for.

Faster speed kills in Jail/ Sulfur than Pirates

AKMAN/ Hysteria would like to say high to you guys.  You have 2 BIS items that come from here and an amazing Gold Compass that is permanant and has a party Teleport to your location on a cooldown. The trash loot at these 2 "dungeons" is worth 7,500 EACH and only weigh a WHOPPING .10 lt.

You do the math on how much money you can make if, let's say you can clear it at about half the speed of Jail... do the math... at 194 awakened ap/ about 230 Dp I was able to survive there, but it just took too long to kill. Tungrade Earring drop there and so does the amazing ELUSIVE Tungrade Necklace, which is arguably better than the Ogre Ring.

Than if that is not enough to work for on a strickt grinding goal, you have Kamasylve coming out which you will be absolutely geared for to solo halfway efficiently.

In this game we traded off the Raid once a weeks for 1 year to get a new expansion to do it all over again, to grind mobs to get BIS than upgrade to PEN.

Not trying to be -----y, but is this really so hard to see and understand?!

They do not want raids in this game, the closest thing to a raid are World Bosses and arguably Akman/ Hysteria.

Guys, all these threads asking about raids/ dungeons is like you guys keep going to McDonalds and Demanding Whoppers than going on twitter and raging that they wouldn't make you a Whopper?!

I'm not trying to be mean, but it's as simple as if you want raids/ tiered gear progression YOU BOUGHT THE WRONG GAME?!

RNG is the point of most games. Shit chess has rng in it for crying out loud.

We had games with no RNG and they -----ing sucked and had no replayablility. Don't believe me?! Go look up Legend of Zelda on NES, Final Fantasy 1 on NES, and Shinning Force.

Also games like UO were even more grindy and RNG based than this.

WOW had way more hard core RNG than this game until about end of Outlands?!

Look up the term Welfare Epics and know a little gaming history. That term literally came from WOW giving "lowered Tiered" Epic (purple, since it was all about the purple gear!) gear in dugeons and tokesn in raids to get raiding gear.

People -----ed and said game went Casual and came up with the Term Welfare epics lol

Yet everyone is crying about this game's RNG.... sigh

Edited by Pavo
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Posted

I can relate to OP on the lore and quests part, RuneScape has never been beaten or even matched in quest goodness by any single or multiplayer game in history. I'd love to see a story of any kind of anything in BDO, whatever it has right now is a sorry excuse. The world is vast and beautiful but it's soulless and filled with thousands of meaningless twenty-bear-asses type of tasks instead of proper story quests. Man, what a waste.

That said I'm fine with the RNG and endless time wasting and lack of raid, PvP tournament etc MMORPG content 'cause I don't really care for effort and only play BDO for what I see it as at the moment, a beautiful black hole of a timesink. I like wasting time on BDO, and I especially like how my characters look while I'm wasting time. Epheria Marine when?

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PvE and graphics are actually the ONLY aspects BDO is actually GOOD at. 

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you'Re right , I'm gonna quit BDO and go play Runespace too, see you there friend.

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The ----- drugs are you guys on?

Here, pro tip in life, if I may be so arrogant.

STOP LISTENING TO EVERYONE TO GET YOUR OPINION BASED ON THEIR OPINIONS.

U are gearing for Sieges, Node Wars, Territory Owning, Future Naval Combat (for nodes) etc..

If you don't care for PVP you are gearing for.

Faster speed kills in Jail/ Sulfur than Pirates

AKMAN/ Hysteria would like to say high to you guys.  You have 2 BIS items that come from here and an amazing Gold Compass that is permanant and has a party Teleport to your location on a cooldown. The trash loot at these 2 "dungeons" is worth 7,500 EACH and only weigh a WHOPPING .10 lt.

You do the math on how much money you can make if, let's say you can clear it at about half the speed of Jail... do the math... at 194 awakened ap/ about 230 Dp I was able to survive there, but it just took too long to kill. Tungrade Earring drop there and so does the amazing ELUSIVE Tungrade Necklace, which is arguably better than the Ogre Ring.

Than if that is not enough to work for on a strickt grinding goal, you have Kamasylve coming out which you will be absolutely geared for to solo halfway efficiently.

In this game we traded off the Raid once a weeks for 1 year to get a new expansion to do it all over again, to grind mobs to get BIS than upgrade to PEN.

Not trying to be -----y, but is this really so hard to see and understand?!

They do not want raids in this game, the closest thing to a raid are World Bosses and arguably Akman/ Hysteria.

Guys, all these threads asking about raids/ dungeons is like you guys keep going to McDonalds and Demanding Whoppers than going on twitter and raging that they wouldn't make you a Whopper?!

I'm not trying to be mean, but it's as simple as if you want raids/ tiered gear progression YOU BOUGHT THE WRONG GAME?!

RNG is the point of most games. Shit chess has rng in it for crying out loud.

We had games with no RNG and they -----ing sucked and had no replayablility. Don't believe me?! Go look up Legend of Zelda on NES, Final Fantasy 1 on NES, and Shinning Force.

Also games like UO were even more grindy and RNG based than this.

WOW had way more hard core RNG than this game until about end of Outlands?!

Look up the term Welfare Epics and know a little gaming history. That term literally came from WOW giving "lowered Tiered" Epic (purple, since it was all about the purple gear!) gear in dugeons and tokesn in raids to get raiding gear.

People -----ed and said game went Casual and came up with the Term Welfare epics lol

Yet everyone is crying about this game's RNG.... sigh

Preach it!....

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Posted (edited)

I also believe that PA did a very poor job regarding the main story quest line, most of the lore explained through text & what you can find in the knowledge page, after Lv50 & after you beat Jordine there is no cinematic at all to the main quest of new regions like Mediah/Valencia, my favorite story/campaign I experience on an MMORPG was in Aion back when it first launch in 2009, it was so exciting for me to move the story forward & learn more & more stuff little by little, there was lot's of cinematics that were showing what took place & all the questions you might had was answered on those cinematics, to be honest I wasn't expecting much as every MMORPG I have play aside from Aion had from bad to terrible story & the presentation was always lacking, it's a part in this genre devs almost never spent much time polishing & that's disappointing, the story after all can make huge difference for people who want not just a pretty world to roam & explore around but a world with rich lore behind it a world they feel are part of, that kind of immersion is missing from BDO & that will always be a minus & a reason for people who search for something like that to never bother playing this game.

Edited by Aeris_TheAncient
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*

I love people who ask for dungeons as they give "true endgame" or "replayability" while all they offer is "repeat this dungeon X times for a chance to get X item" or even worse "replay this dungeon X times for a chance to get X parts to craft X items".

This is what I saw in games like Perfect World Online or FFXIV. And don't get me wrong, FFXIV dungeons are the most fun I've seen, music was amazing and everything was amazing, yet the playerbase was complaining because this kind of content runs old fast and some of the most engaging dungeons were old content so none was doing it anymore (lv 50 dungeons useless when lv 60 cap opens) unless you found a group of people who wouldn't mind one-shotting every boss at lv 60 and were willing to ruin the experience for you.

Now add lazy-designed dungeons to BDO, see how long do these people take to get bored of them. Instead these kind of games could use more open world dungeons and PvP events, like TERA or Archeage. See Tera for example, there are "battlegrounds" there that are fun minigames and it doesn't matter what level or gearscore do you have. Or see FFXIV chocobo races/card games, it brings people together to do stuff and they're fun. I think we could use games inside our game, that players of any level can enjoy together for cool rewards like.. let's say a costume, or a design for an specific costume you could craft. 

But hey then they couldn't be milking us every 2 weeks for a new costume, or so they think. Because those would sell anyway.

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this game needs more pvp get rid of the pve and allow a alternative way to level through pvp and this game would be fun

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Bit misleading title... PvE is the thing you are doin literally 90% of your playtime... :D

But i agree i am missing few rollercoasters from WoW... Bigger thematic dungeons with more complicated bosses would be nice... But then again its the only thing i miss here (more problematic are unnneccessary things that shouldnt be there like RNG destroying your gear)...

Oh and dragons... I want my dragon mount... :D

On the same note... Thematic battlefields with some objective... Just simple capture the flag would go a long way...

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this game needs more pvp get rid of the pve and allow a alternative way to level through pvp and this game would be fun

Um, no.... The people that like PvE will quit and the populations will drop too much..... I never understand why people that love PvP think everyone else should as well.  

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Posted (edited)

Let me start off with saying suggestions regarding overall game improvement is never a bad thing. However, it is questionable when people decide to instead be complacent. Low standards tend to net you the minimum amount of effort  (regarding companies / developers). 

Just a couple suggestions as far as pve content:

Along with lack of engaging pve content, the overall design of bdo does not allow for much social interaction. You can very well play the game and get the gear you want without having to say a word (or type) to anyone. Some people may not mind it. However, it can make many feel very isolated on a MMORPG. 

I won't name any games due to TOS/TOA but some have pve content that allows for a brief break between grinds. Jumping puzzles, customized racing, card games, elite mob hunting etc which can also bolster socialization and cooperation in the community. 

Dungeons may seem stale and some people are tired of grinding them out for gear. So why not make the rewards for said dungeons purely aesthetic? Unnecessary but still incentive to run them. Let's also throw in layout randomization, non-combat puzzles or mob difficulty scaling according to the highest geared player  (or something of that nature). This will keep dungeons interesting, challenging and rewards can change every "season" so there is incentive to continue running the dungeon. As a bonus the inclusion of dungeons also adds another "social factor".

And for pvpers out there we can throw in gear balanced tournaments which can be spectated by other players. Thus adding a new layer to the current pvp model. Said tournament could be held only on occasion so that gear based pvp is still an integral part of the game and lower geared players are able to get a fair taste of competitive pvp. This could lead to added interest in overworld pvp too.

 

Edited by Serabelle
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I'd kill for bdo to have real pve like tera

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BDO is not a Fast-food mmorpg Themepark. BDO not lacking in PVE.BDO not have and not supose to have your stupid Mainstream PvE.

The BDO PvE is field boss/Hunting/lifeksill/Grind. and this is perfect. not require more. Give BDO Raid/donjon will just made BDO like all other piece of shit mmorpg themepark.

 

 

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BDO is not a Fast-food mmorpg Themepark. BDO not lacking in PVE.BDO not have and not supose to have your stupid Mainstream PvE.

The BDO PvE is field boss/Hunting/lifeksill/Grind. and this is perfect. not require more. Give BDO Raid/donjon will just made BDO like all other piece of shit mmorpg themepark.

 

 

It wont bcs it will have themeparks on top of everything you mentioned... Rest lacks in those aspects...

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I'm still enjoying the game and learning a lot along the way. I have not gotten very far into enhancements, but I find the gear aspect of the game to be disappointing. There seems to be a basic progression of items and enhancements that everyone goes through in BDO which culminates with players all having the exact same maxed out boss gear. I don't find this to be interesting or exciting, and the whole enhancements system is incredibly tedious, difficult and confusing.

I wish there was a greater variety of gear choices in the game, varying by region and class, along the lines of the typical fantasy genre.

I wish there were a lot more "epic" items to be found and sought after in the game, and perhaps even some limited drop items.

I wish there were NPC crafters in the game with varying abilities that could enhance your gear for you for a price (as an alternative to trying to buy items off the marketplace which can be a total crap shoot or investing in the tedium of crafting yourself).

Maybe I'm old school, but yeah. I just don't find the gear aspect of BDO very satisfying.

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Only gripe with Pve I have is all the lore is like, in text form. Could use a bit more voiced story telling.

Though I guess if I had to choose from morrowind style story telling to post morrowind voice acting.... *shudder*

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I remember the early reviews of the game and even my own expectations. Everyone knew the game lacked a true "end game". No raids, no dungeons. However we hoped that with time they would start to add things a more typical MMORPG would have, to round out thier game and really become an idealized version of an MMORPG we wanted.

This was also my impression, 

I honestly don't believe that Black Desert in it Current state is a finished product, it "High" moments are mostly RNG related, many of it activities are simple time sinks, the game give a high vibe that it was made around Afk activities and time management.

The game active mode isn't really as engaging as it should be, but there is definitely rooms for improvements, as long as it doesn't exceed players patience. 

Capture.thumb.PNG.6a80d1871e1730f8fa6e3f

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You're simply wanting something out of BDO that it is not and probably never will be.

You want BDO to match up to the very best of a single aspect of another game instead of looking at it as a whole.  Asheron's Call had some of the best server wide weekly quests that everyone did together.  It was a magnificent idea that brought the community together.  However, I don't expect such brilliance out of every MMO.  It should be used in every MMO, but to expect it is just wrong.

BDO is a 3D Diablo basically with a lot of "Life Skill" options.  There are better systems out there for each one individually, but no one presenting A FULL PACKAGE OF EVERYTHING BETTER THAN BDO.

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For the most part I have enjoyed BDO and what it brought. It's desire to be unique and create a player driven world where the players create the world and Dynamics around them. It's delivered in some aspects for sure. Our markets are pretty stable, the guild interaction and wars are lively. But aside from those few things where players are actively changing or influencing, what about the rest of the game? 

Have you ever asked yourself "what's the world BDO resides in"?  "Where's the history"? "Where's the quests that delve further into the lore"? "Does BDO have mythical items"? Things like this are far and few. While we may have our boss gear which we get through RNG, perhaps we're getting too much RNG? I log into BDO and don't feel like I'm playing the genre I fell in love with as a kid. Forget WoW, I'm talking about my first, RuneScape. You know where you paid a subscription if you wanted, but regardless of P2P or f2p there was always something to do and look forward to?

Quests that were interesting, hidden areas that gave special equipment (also RNG based) but had a massive story and interesting interactions behind them? Barrows catacombs,y first green dragon kill, monkey madness questline, etc. There was so much, I barely remember all the specifics but vividly recall the experience, the emotions and the relevance of it all as it connected to my play everyday.

In BDO I don't have that same connection or experience. I feel as if my high in BDO doesn't come from exploration, questing or even playing the game, but from finally overcoming the massive money sink that is enhancements rng. It's so bad I budget my monthly income around upgrades due to the cash shop being so necessary to competitive upgrades/progression. I never felt that way in RuneScape. Different business models but does the model impact the genre that much?

I remember the early reviews of the game and even my own expectations. Everyone knew the game lacked a true "end game". No raids, no dungeons. However we hoped that with time they would start to add things a more typical MMORPG would have, to round out thier game and really become an idealized version of an MMORPG we wanted. Great combat, decent PvP If you're into that and an immersive world to explore, role play and enjoy. Instead we get more things to mindlessly grind, balance changes that are ignited by demand of popular belief, and items/new areas that are hardly upgrades of previous places or things with little to no incentive to do them. Not even from a story standpoint. 

So I guess what I'm saying is, I know why BDO is starting to really bore me and alot of others. Why the thought of even logging in feels like a massive burnout, why life Skilling or participating in events feels like at best a chore and usually an inconvenient time waster. It's because the game isn't trying to immerse us into a developed world, it's trying it's best to distract us from the glaring issues. BDO for as much as I've enjoyed the few things they got right, is massively incomplete. It's missing alot of the basics and the only way to find meaningful enjoyment is to settle for an incomplete product that honestly requires a hefty amount of money after the initial purchase to even enjoy.

You don't even have to be wanting to PvP competitively, the only consistent new things in game come by way of microtransaction. 

Thoughts?

Everyone views their first MMO through rose color glasses, have you ever gone back to play vanilla runescape to remember how many frustrating things there was?  I tried to play vanilla EQ the other day.... horrible.  Even my first love, DAOC, has aged poorly.

 

There is more content coming, this game already has alot for how far along it is in its life cycle with more being implemented and previewed every month.

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Everyone views their first MMO through rose color glasses, have you ever gone back to play vanilla runescape to remember how many frustrating things there was?  I tried to play vanilla EQ the other day.... horrible.  Even my first love, DAOC, has aged poorly.

 

There is more content coming, this game already has alot for how far along it is in its life cycle with more being implemented and previewed every month.

more response from me to come later but as to your question yes I have. The game has its lows but the essence of the game remains. What that game was built around and what BDO is built around are entirely different and that's not something I'm lobbying against. However when the grind to get your gear to full pen grows tiresome and the PvP starts to lose flair for numerous reasons; what other actively engaging content is there for us to delve into further? 

Not all MMOs are the exact same to popular belief, but as a genre many do share key qualities. Things more than just new mobs to relentlessly grind. Mini games, relevant and full expansions in the storyline. I don't want to come off as wanting BDO to change entirely but I'm just comparing the time spent and the options I perceive the game to have. The options are very limited in terms of depth. We have life skills but they are honestly just really shallow. The ships I may create, food I may farm, game I may hunt, etc don't really delve you any further into the game that traditional grinding mobs wouldn't, a mere interaction with the market is the end result of it all.

Like someone said previously the world is devoid and barren in terms of having vibrant life. If you read a little into the lore that's present, there's a long standing conflict between the known territories and need for black stones. Why isn't this a more Central aspect to the game? A literal world war in the world that exists in BDO, which by the way we don't know what name it is known by. Demonic entities such as Kazarka are DIRECTLY connected to our playable characters (Summoned through the use of forbidden sorceresses magic, within some super OP forbidden book we can never obtain cool right?); foreign lands in the seas we have no real history of. Do we know why pirates exist and why they are on this island? Is there a famous pirate or a pirate king? Does BDO have a Kraken? I can go on and on and every single one of these questions can instantly birth expansions into our story and ideas for engaging content and perhaps new items (specific class artifacts anyone)? 

So trust me, it's more than a rosy reminder of the past, it's honestly a legitimate question for this games future? Is it perpetually relegated to just being a time and money sink for the sole purpose of getting pen gear? Because honestly that's what it feels like. Gear is important and all but centering BDO, what is supposed to be an MMORPG around the principal of maxing out gear is hardly what the MMORPG genre was ever about. Role playing games require story and content that continue to push that story and develop a world the player can immerse themselves in. This is what BDO fails to do despite out massive wars we have on a weekly basis. Are we ruled by our territory Victor's? Do they demand taxes and items from our guilds,members and inhabitants? Or do we just gloss over node/territory wins on a regular because they don't directly impact us if we chose not to. 

There's legitimate concern honestly coming from me because I feel the game is more of a shrouded gambling generator and cash cow herder than it is an RPG world where we the players..... Role play? I don't know if this seems foreign to many readers, especially the younger ones but you do realize MMORPG stands for massive multiplayer  online role playing game right? Where the masses of players take on the role of fictional characters they create to participate in a fleshed out world. I'm sorry if it seems like I'm rambling and going on and on about playing pretend online and feeling BDO is devoid of an environment for that but yea..

 

Edited by Nexius
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On the topic of pink glasses...

While ofc i cant re-live my WoW fandays again and whenever i try to play it i am sad it aint as good as it was (even patches i liked, since the entertainment came not only from game but also from people i played it with and new exploring), i cant imagine myself not enjoying diablo2 like ever... I have that shit installed even now, having urge to play it eveyr few months and i always enjoy it like if i played it for the first time... :D If not even more...

So it also depends on the game...

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I don't think there will ever be an MMO that can cover "all" the bases for everyone.  BDO is clearly a project that had/has many long-term development goals in mind and I can see that some things had to be sacrificed in order to launch the game, generate revenue, and continue ongoing projects.  For one, the action combat system is amazing in this game and no other MMO of this scale comes close (except for desync which we all know is a huge problem).  The graphics, the marketplace, the crafting system, the nodewars, sieges, worker system, trading, and everything else that ties together must have been a monumental feat to achieve in the time they had to do it.

Having said that... I can also see how the quest system, the UI, the optimization, the desync, the enhancement system, and other facets of the game feel really unfinished, poorly thought out, or just plain retarded as F.  Bottom line is for all of the things wrong with Black Desert Online it does enough right I still enjoy it greatly and a lot of that has to do with the community and my guild that make it what it is.  BDO is basically the glue that keeps all these people together right now and I can't see another MMO at the moment that is capable of doing that with what we expect from an MMO in terms of PVP, competition, and overall depth.

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Have you ever asked yourself "what's the world BDO resides in"?  "Where's the history"? "Where's the quests that delve further into the lore"? "Does BDO have mythical items"?

no

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