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*Updated* Musa accuracy bugged

278 posts in this topic

Posted

Well shit guys, we need Black horn Bow. I've tested Kutum vs Black Horn Warrior Bow and the difference is beyond ridiculous. I'm running x2 RCE, TRI kzarka, TRI bhegs.. Still need accuracy offhand. I've tested against 2 diferent ninjas both lv 60 with TET Evasion offhand, helm evasion gems, chest evasion gems and all that. When they pop their smoke screen buff (pretty often) with Kutum their HP remained over 60-70% it was hilarous, with acc offhand he'd go down to 30-40% HP, without smoke screen buff it's 10-15% HP with the combo mentioned above.

With Kutum I had 191 AP, with acc off-hand 182 and I did like double damage on evasion stacking builds. 5 minutes ago I've sniped my TET dandelion so I'm pretty sure now with 190 AP and accuracy off-hand I should be able to compete against any evasion build, the problem for me is how much DP we sacrifice in order to achieve this.. 266 DP against any ninja I get destroyed if they CC me, but same goes for them.. So we're kind of glass cannon without a grab, we have to play very well and never ----- up.

tldr: Buy accuracy off-hand NOW any other off-hand is a NO GO against any evasion build, even if you stack accuracy from jewels and gems.

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Well shit guys, we need Black horn Bow. I've tested Kutum vs Black Horn Warrior Bow and the difference is beyond ridiculous. I'm running x2 RCE, TRI kzarka, TRI bhegs.. Still need accuracy offhand. I've tested against 2 diferent ninjas both lv 60 with TET Evasion offhand, helm evasion gems, chest evasion gems and all that. When they pop their smoke screen buff (pretty often) with Kutum their HP remained over 60-70% it was hilarous, with acc offhand he'd go down to 30-40% HP, without smoke screen buff it's 10-15% HP with the combo mentioned above.

With Kutum I had 191 AP, with acc off-hand 182 and I did like double damage on evasion stacking builds. 5 minutes ago I've sniped my TET dandelion so I'm pretty sure now with 190 AP and accuracy off-hand I should be able to compete against any evasion build, the problem for me is how much DP we sacrifice in order to achieve this.. 266 DP against any ninja I get destroyed if they CC me, but same goes for them.. So we're kind of glass cannon without a grab, we have to play very well and never ----- up.

tldr: Buy accuracy off-hand NOW any other off-hand is a NO GO against any evasion build, even if you stack accuracy from jewels and gems.

been said that we need accuracy off since page 1 of this stupid post... all i got as feedback was personal attacks and cancer :) but im glad to see someone with enough brain to test their things...Btw u  get the same results less or more with any class just wiz and witches can shit on accuracy. Fixing wizards is real easy just lower their accuracy and they will  end to be OP but still they will be the best class for utility in sieges.  

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been said that we need accuracy off since page 1 of this stupid post... all i got as feedback was personal attacks and cancer :) but im glad to see someone with enough brain to test their things...Btw u  get the same results less or more with any class just wiz and witches can shit on accuracy. Fixing wizards is real easy just lower their accuracy and they will  end to be OP but still they will be the best class for utility in sieges.  

It's not what you said I think it's the way you said things.. You should try to be more constructive so people don't get mad. I mean before claiming anything just share your personal experiences with details about who you think X is better than X.

WIth that said, what I feel the most is how squishy I've become after switching to this bow, I need to be more defensive but I'm not sure how, I guess getting all my boss gear to TET but I wonder if there's anything else that would be really noticeable that might increase my survavility because now I'm back to "get knocked down and die" with Kutum I can easily get up even against a ninja with 212 AP. I'm guessing I need some evasion but I wonder if it's really worth it to remove cobelinus for special attack evasion +20% and maybe even get a protection alchemy stone. What do you guys think?

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Posted

It's not what you said I think it's the way you said things.. You should try to be more constructive so people don't get mad. I mean before claiming anything just share your personal experiences with details about who you think X is better than X.

WIth that said, what I feel the most is how squishy I've become after switching to this bow, I need to be more defensive but I'm not sure how, I guess getting all my boss gear to TET but I wonder if there's anything else that would be really noticeable that might increase my survavility because now I'm back to "get knocked down and die" with Kutum I can easily get up even against a ninja with 212 AP. I'm guessing I need some evasion but I wonder if it's really worth it to remove cobelinus for special attack evasion +20% and maybe even get a protection alchemy stone. What do you guys think?

Reroll wizz, free acc, dp build, oneshot, all in one.

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Posted

been said that we need accuracy off since page 1 of this stupid post... all i got as feedback was personal attacks and cancer :) but im glad to see someone with enough brain to test their things...Btw u  get the same results less or more with any class just wiz and witches can shit on accuracy. Fixing wizards is real easy just lower their accuracy and they will  end to be OP but still they will be the best class for utility in sieges.  

our problem with you suggesting we run black horn warrior bow wasnt the suggestion itself, its rather that we need to run this because of our acc while other classes like ninja, wiz, ranger, sorc 95% of the time never even touch an acc offhand and still have better acc with their full ap or eva offhands, just means that devs really want to fck us hard or something fcked up when musa got to eu/na, which was the main point of this thread.

now that black horn warrior is looking tempting to me as well, gonna try to get one and run with it exclusively for a whole week to see how it goes.

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Posted

our problem with you suggesting we run black horn warrior bow wasnt the suggestion itself, its rather that we need to run this because of our acc while other classes like ninja, wiz, ranger, sorc 95% of the time never even touch an acc offhand and still have better acc with their full ap or eva offhands, just means that devs really want to fck us hard or something fcked up when musa got to eu/na, which was the main point of this thread.

now that black horn warrior is looking tempting to me as well, gonna try to get one and run with it exclusively for a whole week to see how it goes.

You're going to have to play more careful but my damage felt very consistent hitting evasion builds felt satisfying even with 180 AP, now got 190 AP been testing a bit on RBF and sweet kills, I almost feel like an assassin class there.

But you're right some classes barely touch accuracy with better results so I'd like to see an accuracy modifier increase in our skills because right now I can't think of a viable evasion build unless you got full TET and that seems unfair to me since full TRI mages/ninjas can do very well with it.

It seems retarded they gave us such low hits per skills and then 0-10% acc modfifiers in our skills. Using a skill with x3 hits if you miss a single hit you're dealing 66% of the damage, main reason why wizard/witches have such good accuracy isn't only the modifiers but the fact that most of them hit by x7-x12 with 10-20% accuracy modifiers, this is crazy. 

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Posted

Any of you know how the scaling works from private duo and TRIED? For accuracy ie

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Posted

You're going to have to play more careful but my damage felt very consistent hitting evasion builds felt satisfying even with 180 AP, now got 190 AP been testing a bit on RBF and sweet kills, I almost feel like an assassin class there.

But you're right some classes barely touch accuracy with better results so I'd like to see an accuracy modifier increase in our skills because right now I can't think of a viable evasion build unless you got full TET and that seems unfair to me since full TRI mages/ninjas can do very well with it.

It seems retarded they gave us such low hits per skills and then 0-10% acc modfifiers in our skills. Using a skill with x3 hits if you miss a single hit you're dealing 66% of the damage, main reason why wizard/witches have such good accuracy isn't only the modifiers but the fact that most of them hit by x7-x12 with 10-20% accuracy modifiers, this is crazy. 

im a nouver user, so i get more dp than usual :P 

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im a nouver user, so i get more dp than usual :P 

wut, you mean kutum? what's going on D:

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wut, you mean kutum? what's going on D:

It's kinda sad, i got used to the survability kutum offered me, since i was doing the same dmg as white horn bow :S

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It's kinda sad, i got used to the survability kutum offered me, since i was doing the same dmg as white horn bow :S

Same here, now we're going to have to push TET boss gear to feel as tanky but I can tell you the dmg is very high with it. Also try TRI kzarka since that's the only difference between our current builds, that and the fact that my accesories are trash but now I can work on that. 

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Same here, now we're going to have to push TET boss gear to feel as tanky but I can tell you the dmg is very high with it. Also try TRI kzarka since that's the only difference between our current builds, that and the fact that my accesories are trash but now I can work on that. 

I'm trying to tet my kzarka right now, but my tet luck is insane, got tet dande at 17th try, and tet kzarka failed 9 times so far...i don't have time to push all my armor to tet, and not with this cursed rng either...

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It's not what you said I think it's the way you said things.. You should try to be more constructive so people don't get mad. I mean before claiming anything just share your personal experiences with details about who you think X is better than X.

WIth that said, what I feel the most is how squishy I've become after switching to this bow, I need to be more defensive but I'm not sure how, I guess getting all my boss gear to TET but I wonder if there's anything else that would be really noticeable that might increase my survavility because now I'm back to "get knocked down and die" with Kutum I can easily get up even against a ninja with 212 AP. I'm guessing I need some evasion but I wonder if it's really worth it to remove cobelinus for special attack evasion +20% and maybe even get a protection alchemy stone. What do you guys think?

the +20% gems always worth sometimes they can save you. About surviability its all about your playstyle if u rely too much on dp to survive as musa or maewha there is something wrong :/ . about protection alchemy stone if u can keep both destruction and protection always up its good but dont expect to be that tanky :)

our problem with you suggesting we run black horn warrior bow wasnt the suggestion itself, its rather that we need to run this because of our acc while other classes like ninja, wiz, ranger, sorc 95% of the time never even touch an acc offhand and still have better acc with their full ap or eva offhands, just means that devs really want to fck us hard or something fcked up when musa got to eu/na, which was the main point of this thread.

now that black horn warrior is looking tempting to me as well, gonna try to get one and run with it exclusively for a whole week to see how it goes.

If u run full evasion even those classes u just mentioned will have problems killing u. but there is something to say like rangers can grab and do their combo and meanwhile we get up they hell desync with the bow and finish u off that way so they dps is very good with or without accuracy off.
 Wiz lets not talk about them they are broken as -----.
Ninja have passive accuracy and anyway they can grab u twice and keep going with a very long combo and ----- u badly anyway with or without accuracy off.
Sorc The thing with sorc is they can rely on some good pre awekning skills ( and we cant ) their main dmg skill hits like a truck and if their spin to win catch u in kd they melts u cuz they get down attack + back attack and thats alot of dmg but even saying this if they meet a full evasion dude they will have same problems as our class has. 
The point is if a musa/maewha go evasion they gonna loose alot of dmg but still able to easy kill full ap monkeys and those who runs with accuracy off.. they will struggle alot vs evasion and full dp/evasion builds which are 2 different things guys. 
Right now i like to play with ap or accuracy off hand and rely on mobility to survive but going full evasion and became a cancer maewha/musa is also nice ^_^ 

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the +20% gems always worth sometimes they can save you. About surviability its all about your playstyle if u rely too much on dp to survive as musa or maewha there is something wrong :/ . about protection alchemy stone if u can keep both destruction and protection always up its good but dont expect to be that tanky :)

Alchemy stones share cooldowns so that's not possible. I try to relay on block/dash to dodge and engage again with full HP and cds. But sometimes you get hit so hard the only thing you can do is dash away and you die mid-dash because you're simply squishy. DP stacking isn't my idea really just try to increase survavility without losing much dmg. I need to get Hebetate armor so I can try to swap out cobelinus for +20% evasion with no HP loss, I'm running 3.4 K hp in node wars and with accuracy bow I'll lose 200 hp from crystals so another -200 HP loss feels like a big deal, 400 HP is too much to be ignored isn't it?

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Alchemy stones share cooldowns so that's not possible. I try to relay on block/dash to dodge and engage again with full HP and cds. But sometimes you get hit so hard the only thing you can do is dash away and you die mid-dash because you're simply squishy. DP stacking isn't my idea really just try to increase survavility without losing much dmg. I need to get Hebetate armor so I can try to swap out cobelinus for +20% evasion with no HP loss, I'm running 3.4 K hp in node wars and with accuracy bow I'll lose 200 hp from crystals so another -200 HP loss feels like a big deal, 400 HP is too much to be ignored isn't it?

Then go for destruction stone..the 20% gems works only for specials attacks ( its good for 1 v1 and small scale pvp) if u die dashing those wont help you So cobellinus in your situation would do a better job anyway if u choose to stay with accuracy offhand u will be squishy thats the price of a fixed dps vs any build. 

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Then go for destruction stone..the 20% gems works only for specials attacks ( its good for 1 v1 and small scale pvp) if u die dashing those wont help you So cobellinus in your situation would do a better job anyway if u choose to stay with accuracy offhand u will be squishy thats the price of a fixed dps vs any build. 

Yep I still have so much to learn anyway, I've been mostly grinding and attending Node wars but now I feel more comfortable to duel some people, before using this off-hand I always felt my damage was never enough to finish anyone quick enough.

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Posted

From what I've been gathering these days since you made this post, most evasion stackers agree only you MUST use accuracy offhand to counter theirs, I've done quick tests with an evasion wizard (parrying dagger/gems/centaur belt..) I asked him to simply replace the evasion offhand with AP and let me test a simple combo:

crosscut > twister > crosscut > Q > crosscut > backflow > BTB > F

The difference was like 20-30% more HP with evasion offhand. He said to me that he tested this with other people and those who use accuracy offhand melt him like butter, basically neglecting his entire evasion build. I've finally managed to buy my accuracy off-hand so I'll be doing some tests later with sorceress/ranger/wizard and a ninja so I'll come back to this post this week to see how it goes.

Of course you need accuracy offhand to counter full evasion build lol

Would be great to hear back from you, because if an acc offhand is all that is needed, what is the point of even having RCE's and tree belts?

@SinisterSaints @HOMRAH 

I think we may need both :|  Sadly I can't test because I dont have an AP build.

 You need all the accuracy you can get to counter full evasion, that s why.

 

But anyway the point was that with the accuracy he had with accessories, it still felt realy low hit rate compare to what i see with other classes.

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Why can't EU people just be full AP monkeys like NA. Wouldn't have to worry about this shit. It clearly screws us over much more than other classes. 

our problem with you suggesting we run black horn warrior bow wasnt the suggestion itself, its rather that we need to run this because of our acc while other classes like ninja, wiz, ranger, sorc 95% of the time never even touch an acc offhand and still have better acc with their full ap or eva offhands, just means that devs really want to fck us hard or something fcked up when musa got to eu/na, which was the main point of this thread.

now that black horn warrior is looking tempting to me as well, gonna try to get one and run with it exclusively for a whole week to see how it goes.

That's the main issue I've had. A TRI black horn has been in my inventory for quite a long time but in most cases I swap back to my TET kutum because we simply take too much of a DP hit. I just don't see how this is fair for us because as you've mentioned other classes can run whatever they want to! Would love an explanation from the devs. "Inb4 because you are a hit and run class, fastest class in the game so you have to have nerfed accuracy and DP". I had a fu*in ranger almost run away from me because of no stamina and every Bow shot I did missed him. 

So the verdict is? To counter evasion targets in a 1v1, MAX 2v1 situation use a black horn bow. If you get grabbed by a ninja with that bow on you are dead and trust me. I've been grabbed by ninjas while dashing lmao. If you get grabbed by a ranger or wizard, well you probably are dead no matter what offhand :P .For small scale pvp, black horn is also good however if you fall into 1 wizards skill you will lose 50% of your health instantly. For large scale nodes and sieges, use white horn warrior bow or Kutum if you don't have white. You will hit like a potato but you will be able to take more hits meaning you live longer and help out for longer.

Also, I haven't tested white horn warrior bow but if it is as good as my friends say I would even recommend you use it against warriors. You might be able to survive their ultimate with it on! Imagine that, getting constantly grabbed while in SA by a warrior but he can't kill you! Of course, you won't be able to put a dent into his shield but it still can be fun :D

That's as good as it's going to get for now...

 

Buff accuracy offhand, buff our damage, add FG on projection, reduce stamina cost on skills, reduce crust crusher animation by 1 minute, add perma SA to crosscut ( it sucks anyways ), make Musa great again. K thx bai. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

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Posted

 

Of course you need accuracy offhand to counter full evasion build lol

 You need all the accuracy you can get to counter full evasion, that s why.

But anyway the point was that with the accuracy he had with accessories, it still felt realy low hit rate compare to what i see with other classes.

 

My point is that accesories and gems are not enough to even scratch someone with a full evasion build.

Also I don't understand why such a squishy class is so limited by stamina when blocking/dashing, it isn't enough that our block sucks and we don't have any evasion/DP buffs we also lose a lot of stamina while blocking, and if you have stamina you can't move therefore we get hit 2 or 3 times while blocking and we're dead.

But you may say hey why don't you wear evasion off-hand, because I can't afford to deal no damage or miss every CC. So as a summay of our class weaknesses:

  • Stamina consumption on block.
  • Stamina consumption on dash.
  • Low accuracy modifiers.
  • Low number of hits per skill therefore less damage when you miss than other classes.

Possible solutions:

  • Remove stamina consumption from block, so we can recover stamina while blocking increase our survavility.
  • Removing stamina consumption from dash.. but I personally think this might be too strong.
  • Increase amount of hits per skill.
  • Increase accuracy modifiers to balance amount of hits, if a skill has x3 hits give it 15-20% like they do to other classes. 

I could start getting paranoid and say we're bugged, broken class, accuracy isn't working etc.. But honestly I'd rather work with what I know 100% sure and I think I'm not going crazy on the buff suggestions, I just want to be on pair with other classes without outgearing them. 

Please @CM_Aethon notice me senpai

PS: About no-stamina dash being too strong, I like the idea of working with resources to perform good, so if you don't dash like crazy, position yourself correctly and don't abuse block (you can't abuse block anyway because it breaks) this class could be super fun imo. Just giving people unlimited dash sounds like many people could go full retard spam dash all the time and It doesn't look very fun because very few classes would be able to catch us.

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Posted (edited)

My point is that accesories and gems are not enough to even scratch someone with a full evasion build.

Also I don't understand why such a squishy class is so limited by stamina when blocking/dashing, it isn't enough that our block sucks and we don't have any evasion/DP buffs we also lose a lot of stamina while blocking, and if you have stamina you can't move therefore we get hit 2 or 3 times while blocking and we're dead.

But you may say hey why don't you wear evasion off-hand, because I can't afford to deal no damage or miss every CC. So as a summay of our class weaknesses:

  • Stamina consumption on block.
  • Stamina consumption on dash.
  • Low accuracy modifiers.
  • Low number of hits per skill therefore less damage when you miss than other classes.

Possible solutions:

  • Remove stamina consumption from block, so we can recover stamina while blocking increase our survavility.
  • Removing stamina consumption from dash.. but I personally think this might be too strong.
  • Increase amount of hits per skill.
  • Increase accuracy modifiers to balance amount of hits, if a skill has x3 hits give it 15-20% like they do to other classes. 

I could start getting paranoid and say we're bugged, broken class, accuracy isn't working etc.. But honestly I'd rather work with what I know 100% sure and I think I'm not going crazy on the buff suggestions, I just want to be on pair with other classes without outgearing them. 

Please @CM_Aethon notice me senpai

PS: About no-stamina dash being too strong, I like the idea of working with resources to perform good, so if you don't dash like crazy, position yourself correctly and don't abuse block (you can't abuse block anyway because it breaks) this class could be super fun imo. Just giving people unlimited dash sounds like many people could go full retard spam dash all the time and It doesn't look very fun because very few classes would be able to catch us.

I agree with most of the things you suggested here.
I also wish we could actually get any kind of answer...from anyone. At this point I'd be happy if the janitor of Kakao acknowledged this problems.


I'm starting to think that 1 tag per day, keeps the CMs away. 

They've been tagged since the start of this topic and we still don't have an answer. :/

--------------------------------------------------------------------

On a different note after reading your other post about trying Acc OH. I did a few tests on a full evasion sorc and ranger with Nouver vs Acc OH.

So far the tests have been inconclusive. It feels like there is too much rng involved. The number of tryouts was also small, so I'll do more to increase the sample size to have a clearer view of what's going on.

With that said the most ridiculous result so far happened when with Nouver (226AP) 1 combo took 25% hp of the sorcs hp and with the Acc OH (204 AP) the same combo took 75% of the hp. It only occurred once though. More research is needed.

Edited by Rip

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On a different note after reading your other post about trying Acc OH. I did a few tests on a full evasion sorc and ranger with Nouver vs Acc OH.

So far the tests have been inconclusive. It feels like there is too much rng involved. The number of tryouts was also small, so I'll do more to increase the sample size to have a clearer view of what's going on.

You can have my tests for nouver v black horn:

ukBqWUQ.png

Yes yes, sample size etc, but I didn't plan on releasing any of my tests and it isn't enough to be certain but its a reasonable indication imo, if you want infinity sample size please do your own testing.

(Had tet zarka, tet nouver, tri accuracy, tri rce x 2, 2 x precision gems, 1 x viper, tri bhegs when doing this), and for what its worth i have tet kutum numbers also but it was lower than nouver and accuracy in all my tests. This was BTB damage.

 

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I agree with most of the things you suggested here.I also wish we could actually get any kind of answer...from anyone. At this point I'd be happy if the janitor of Kakao acknowledged this problems.


I'm starting to think that 1 tag per day, keeps the CMs away. 

They've been tagged since the start of this topic and we still don't have an answer. :/

--------------------------------------------------------------------

On a different note after reading your other post about trying Acc OH. I did a few tests on a full evasion sorc and ranger with Nouver vs Acc OH.

So far the tests have been inconclusive. It feels like there is too much rng involved. The number of tryouts was also small, so I'll do more to increase the sample size to have a clearer view of what's going on.

With that said the most ridiculous result so far happened when with Nouver (226AP) 1 combo took 25% hp of the sorcs hp and with the Acc OH (204 AP) the same combo took 75% of the hp. It only occurred once though. More research is needed.

So are you saying that even with all your acc accesories+ acc offhand you can't reach consistnely 75% hp with the same combo?

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Posted (edited)

 

You can have my tests for nouver v black horn:

ukBqWUQ.png

Yes yes, sample size etc, but I didn't plan on releasing any of my tests and it isn't enough to be certain but its a reasonable indication imo, if you want infinity sample size please do your own testing.

(Had tet zarka, tet nouver, tri accuracy, tri rce x 2, 2 x precision gems, 1 x viper, tri bhegs when doing this), and for what its worth i have tet kutum numbers also but it was lower than nouver and accuracy in all my tests. This was BTB damage.

 

This is actually good. Like you said we need more samples. BUT atleast there's some data to work with.

We can't expect 1 person do everything. 

Thanks for sharing!

So are you saying that even with all your acc accesories+ acc offhand you can't reach consistnely 75% hp with the same combo?

I only did like 5-6 tries to get the feel of it. I wasn't paying to much attention to the % of damage dealt.

 I only mentioned that one, because it was something that caught my eye due to the huge difference. It could be just an outlier (it probably is).

(Right now my bhegs are broken after another failed TET attempt, I'll fix them hopefully today and if I have the time I'll do some testing.)

Edited by Rip

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Posted (edited)

This is actually good. Like you said we need more samples. BUT atleast there's some data to work with.

We can't expect 1 person do everything. 

Thanks for sharing!

I only did like 5-6 tries to get the feel of it. I wasn't paying to much attention to the % of damage dealt.

 I only mentioned that one, because it was something that caught my eye due to the huge difference. It could be just an outlier (it probably is).

(Right now my bhegs are broken after another failed TET attempt, I'll fix them hopefully today and if I have the time I'll do some testing.)

I tried long ago tri bhegs vs pri bhegs, and there was literally no difference. (some people say they stop scaling after +15, which makes sense with my tests)

Edited by SinisterSaints

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My current gear, tet or pri, there is no tri

 

And I'm potato, any other class with the same gear would be considered op

tmp_15285-Gear736714934.png

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