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PVP / PK System Explained


34 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Many recent posts contain statements that demonstrate they don't fully understand the PVP/PK mechanics.  The link at the bottom shows the details of the PK penalties which are different between the True Valencia Desert and anywhere else.

 

Misnomer: The PK penalty is to high.

Truth: The Karma for a single PK can be replenished in less than 12 minutes depending on location/density.

Truth: A full party can PK a single player easily for 15-30 minutes straight in most locations.

 

Misnomer: If they removed the crystal breaking and exp I would PK everyone

Truth: They already did.  It's called the Valencia Desert.  Red players do not lose exp or crystals upon player death.

If you die as "criminal status" you will go to jail, it's not completely free to go red.  However, this is nothing in comparison

to degrading equipment and exp loss.  Players are free to PK with full TET/PEN.

 

Misnomer: The desert has no players, it's empty.

Truth: There are popular areas in the desert where it's crowded nearly 24/7

 

Note: There are basically 2 Valencia Deserts.

#1 Basilisks, Bashim, Bandits (No desert debuff)

#2 Akman, Naga, Fogan, Crescents (debuffs)

 

Truth: The reason a lot of players don't go perma red in the desert is because these so called "PVPers, Carebear Killers, Role Players" are looking for easy targets.  Most players in the desert are better equipped to fight back and are capable of sending REDS to jail.

#thought_you_wanted_PVP

 

Edited by feebleone

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Posted (edited)

Nice clickbait title, should read:

"Guy massively biased against killing in sandbox feels entitled to give us his whiny opinions as truths"

 

Also 12 minutes to get back that karma in most areas? Lol don't kid yourself, nice taking the pirates rate and assuming it everywhere.

Edited by Huntler
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Posted

What is jail exactly ? A closed place like IRL ? How long must be in place before to go outside ?

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Posted

Nice clickbait title, should read:

"Guy massively biased against killing in sandbox feels entitled to give us his whiny opinions as truths"

 

Also 12 minutes to get back that karma in most areas? Lol don't kid yourself, nice taking the pirates rate and assuming it everywhere.

Nice to see you still around as well, Huntler. We both fell for the bait and yet at the same time we know nothing will improve/get changed. Remember the "proposed" system they showed back during what? Closed Beta 2? It never happened. The only thing they did is remove disenchanting when you die red. That's it. 

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Posted

Half truths and massively biased makes for an overall fairly boring read that makes it appear as if Valencia desert is the savior of everyone.

It's not.

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Posted

Nice clickbait title, should read:

"Guy massively biased against killing in sandbox feels entitled to give us his whiny opinions as truths"

 

Also 12 minutes to get back that karma in most areas? Lol don't kid yourself, nice taking the pirates rate and assuming it everywhere.

Or the 50+ other spots this could be done in.

Select Wizard --

Fogan's

Cron Castle

Ogres area

Sausan

Bandits

Naga

Crescents

Catfish

Helms

<--------- Any densely populated areas in game

What is jail exactly ? A closed place like IRL ? How long must be in place before to go outside ?

Youtube it.  You can quest your way out, or search for the exit.  It's a cave/dungeon.

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Posted

Or the 50+ other spots this could be done in.

Select Wizard --

Fogan's

Cron Castle

Ogres area

Sausan

Bandits

Naga

Crescents

Catfish

Helms

<--------- Any densely populated areas in game

Imma let you go ahead and figure out the several things wrong with this post, don't worry, I'll wait.

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Posted

Nice to see you still around as well, Huntler. We both fell for the bait and yet at the same time we know nothing will improve/get changed. Remember the "proposed" system they showed back during what? Closed Beta 2? It never happened. The only thing they did is remove disenchanting when you die red. That's it. 

The only thing they did was remove the harshest penalty possible making it virtually impossible to be perma red.  DOWNGRADING ITEMS.

Oh and they removed crystals breaking, and exp penalty, but meh those are only MASSIVELY IMPORTANT.

 

You should be thankful players don't know much about the system and are not organized.  A full party of actual PKers consisting of both WHITE AND RED players could completely stop nearly anyone from hunting PERIOD.  And that COULD ONLY BE DONE WITH THE DESERT RULES.

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Posted

The only thing they did was remove the harshest penalty possible making it virtually impossible to be perma red.  DOWNGRADING ITEMS.

Oh and they removed crystals breaking, and exp penalty, but meh those are only MASSIVELY IMPORTANT.

 

You should be thankful players don't know much about the system and are not organized.  A full party of actual PKers consisting of both WHITE AND RED players could completely stop nearly anyone from hunting PERIOD.  And that COULD ONLY BE DONE WITH THE DESERT RULES.

So they stopped the PKers items from degrading but the ones who were killed get a free port back to empty their inventory. 

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Posted (edited)

So they stopped the PKers items from degrading but the ones who were killed get a free port back to empty their inventory. 

There is a little Key difference which means absolutely everything.

White PKing is limited.  It prevents parties from unlimited PKing.

 

PERMA REDS HAVE NO LIMITS.  Not to mention real player griefing such as trying to force mob deaths.

You CAN'T karma bomb or hunt near a PERMA RED WHO YOU CANT KILL.

 

There is no "Real PERMA RED" status either.  Perma Red would require at least -100 million Karma

Edited by feebleone

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Posted (edited)

There is a little Key difference which means absolutely everything.

White PKing is limited.  It prevents parties from unlimited PKing.

 

PERMA REDS HAVE NO LIMITS.  Not to mention real player griefing such as trying to force mob deaths.

You CAN'T karma bomb or hunt near a PERMA RED WHO YOU CANT KILL.

if you go red in the desert, especially "perma red" as you call it, you are cutoff from basically all the content in this game except that desert. You really don't understand what its like to grind back 1 mill karma in the desert. I don't even know why I'm bothering to answer you, nothing is going to change your mind, its obvious you are unwilling to see both sides of the coin. And once someone is red, especially in the desert you can literally suicide the guy until he leaves or goes 1 mill karma, or you kill him. The only way in this state of the game where you 100% can never kill someone (especially if they aren't fighting back) is if you are literally dog gear/level which means you shouldn't even be in the desert to begin with. Anyone in this game at 200 AP+ can kill anyone with the right combo, timing, ult, etc. And all it takes is for you to do it once while the guy who killed you once for the grindspot is now villain status and immediately gets sent away. 

 

Its simple, all problems are solved if you kill someone they should be forced to respawn town. No griefing either way that way and being stronger/winning a pvp fight actually means something. /Thread/Discussion. However I know you'll disagree so again whats the point ffs you call going to manshas to gain karma back as viable ffs.

Edited by Huntler

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Posted (edited)

Half truths and massively biased makes for an overall fairly boring read that makes it appear as if Valencia desert is the savior of everyone.

It's not.

The bias, lies, and ignorance come from a host of players making claims and how they can't freely pk or requesting things that are literally already in the game.

The top facts listed can't be biased, they are simple fact.

Truth: The Karma for a single PK can be replenished in less than 12 minutes depending on location/density.

This either A: Can be done or B: Can not be done

It's pretty much impossible to call it bias or half truth it's physics.

 

I see multiple players in the desert every day.

A: True or B: False

It's A and can't really be subject to any bias

 

The only statement is the last one that could have any bias.

if you go red in the desert, especially "perma red" as you call it, you are cutoff from basically all the content in this game except that desert. You really don't understand what its like to grind back 1 mill karma in the desert. I don't even know why I'm bothering to answer you, nothing is going to change your mind, its obvious you are unwilling to see both sides of the coin.

That statement is to generic to discuss.

For example, who says they want to work off that Karma?

Are you suggesting players should be able to PK like that anywhere?  That would ruin the entire game for most players.

Who says they have to reach -1 million karma?  That's only if they PK'd multiple times and maxed it out.

The definition of Perma Red is to stay red permanently, making karma reduction irrelevant.

A perma red can be an ALT that doesn't need to leave the desert.  (Select Wizard, Give it Top Gear, Level to 58, you WIN)

 

Edited by feebleone

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Posted

The bias, lies, and ignorance come from a host of players making claims and how they can't freely pk or requesting things that are literally already in the game.

The top facts listed can't be biased, they are simple fact.

That statement is to generic to discuss.

For example, who says they want to work off that Karma?

Are you suggesting players should be able to PK like that anywhere?  That would ruin the entire game for most players.

Who says they have to reach -1 million karma?  That's only if they PK'd multiple times and maxed it out.

The definition of Perma Red is to stay red permanently, making karma reduction irrelevant.

A perma red can be an ALT that doesn't need to leave the desert.  (Select Wizard, Give it Top Gear, Level to 58, you WIN)

 

Yeah you're an idiot, I'm done. 

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Posted (edited)

Yeah you're an idiot, I'm done. 

You got PK'd by Logic.

GF Son

PERMA RED TEXT

 

Boo Hoo I wanted to force PK deaths upon other players and now I have to pay a penalty for it!!  It's so unfair.  You don't understand the other side of the coin.

Edited by feebleone
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Posted (edited)

Misnomer: There's any sort of meaningful PvP in this game outside of Node Wars
Truth: This game actively discourages all forms of PvP outside of shitty ass RBF and awful zergy node wars at every single opportunity.

 

Misnomer:  This game offers any sort of reward for PvP/PK and the risk vs reward is in line with other similar games
Truth: There's absolutely no benefit from PK'ing a person as they lose nothing and they spawn 20 seconds away.  Meanwhile every similar game I have ever played (Eve, ArcheAge, Lineage 2, among others) offers either far less penalties for meaningless PvP or offers some sort of meaning to the PK.  Even carebear games like WoW offer more OWPvP than this game.

 

Misnomer:  The end game of BDO isn't PvP, it's all the other content this game offers
Truth: This game offers no other content unless you want to grind the same braindead AI until your fingers fall off or stare at your character while you chop wood next to the warehouse keeper.  

 

 

Misnomer: Valencia is a PK'ers safe haven dream zone and they already fixed the issues most complain about.
Truth: Karma is gained back roughly 60-70% slower in Valencia than the quickest spots outside of Valencia.  Valencia is supposed to be a lawless place yet you get sent to jail when you die.  The person getting PK'd still has absolutely no risk involved.  PK'er cannot defend himself without losing more Karma.  Muiquinn is an utter waste of space.

 

 

Simply put this game has by far the harshest penalties possibly among any MMO ever for completely risk-free PvP. 

Edited by Dreamagain
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Posted

You got PK'd by Logic.

GF Son

PERMA RED TEXT

 

Boo Hoo I wanted to force PK deaths upon other players and now I have to pay a penalty for it!!  It's so unfair.  You don't understand the other side of the coin.

logic

 Divi9yo.png

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Posted

Scenario:
I'm out grinding because the game forces me to or I will fall behind the curve.  It's incredibly boring, but I have to do it.  I'd like to find SOME kind of enjoyment while I do it though.  A person walks up and starts grinding here too.  I flag up and kill them.  Did I kill them because I'm being mean?  Because I'm a violent individual?  Because I took offense to them "stealing" my mobs?  No... I killed them because I'm here doing boring shit, and PvP'ing other people is usually enjoyable, so I'd like to mix in some enjoyable aspects of the game while I'm doing the boring stuff.  This guy who died to me also doesn't mind PvP'ing.  He also wants to have fun, so he comes back and tries to kill me.   I kill him a few times and all of a sudden I'm negative karma.  A few more and I might be at minus 1 million.  For what?  What does the game think I did that's so harsh that I should spend the next 10+ hours grinding off negative karma for?  (We'll pretend I'm in Valencia and ignore all the other ridiculous death penalties).  Furthermore, I can't even go grind off the negative karma the game forced on me for doing nothing more than having some fun, because anyone can come attack me and I cannot defend myself.

 

This is the scenario in which this game is frustratingly flawed.  The scenario in which feebleone and 5-10 other people constantly spam on these forums about mean Pk'ers doing nothing but griefing trying to ruin somebody's day - while yes this does occur from time to time - is not the scenario in which most people are upset with the current PK system.

 

There's so many ways you can implement a good system in which actual griefers are punished, and other people who are just looking for other people who want to PvP can do so without being punished.

 

If I spend an hour grinding, I'd like to spend on average 20 minutes of that actually PvP'ing around the grind spot. And if you say to yourself "I want to spend an hour grinding, and 0 minutes of that pvp'ing because I don't enjoy it at all" then FINE.. All i ask for is a system that can appeal to both sides, but this game doesn't have it right now.

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Posted

Yeah this post needs a big dose of.....wait for it....

 

 

learn some manners!

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Posted (edited)

Scenario:
I'm out grinding because the game forces me to or I will fall behind the curve.  It's incredibly boring, but I have to do it.  I'd like to find SOME kind of enjoyment while I do it though.  A person walks up and starts grinding here too.  I flag up and kill them.  Did I kill them because I'm being mean?  Because I'm a violent individual?  Because I took offense to them "stealing" my mobs?  No... I killed them because I'm here doing boring shit, and PvP'ing other people is usually enjoyable, so I'd like to mix in some enjoyable aspects of the game while I'm doing the boring stuff.  This guy who died to me also doesn't mind PvP'ing.  He also wants to have fun, so he comes back and tries to kill me.   I kill him a few times and all of a sudden I'm negative karma.  A few more and I might be at minus 1 million.  For what?  What does the game think I did that's so harsh that I should spend the next 10+ hours grinding off negative karma for?  (We'll pretend I'm in Valencia and ignore all the other ridiculous death penalties).  Furthermore, I can't even go grind off the negative karma the game forced on me for doing nothing more than having some fun, because anyone can come attack me and I cannot defend myself.

 

This is the scenario in which this game is frustratingly flawed.  The scenario in which feebleone and 5-10 other people constantly spam on these forums about mean Pk'ers doing nothing but griefing trying to ruin somebody's day - while yes this does occur from time to time - is not the scenario in which most people are upset with the current PK system.

 

There's so many ways you can implement a good system in which actual griefers are punished, and other people who are just looking for other people who want to PvP can do so without being punished.

 

If I spend an hour grinding, I'd like to spend on average 20 minutes of that actually PvP'ing around the grind spot. And if you say to yourself "I want to spend an hour grinding, and 0 minutes of that pvp'ing because I don't enjoy it at all" then FINE.. All i ask for is a system that can appeal to both sides, but this game doesn't have it right now.

What you are describing isn't the PK system at all.

In your example you should have been doing consensual duels.

 

Secondly if your "bored" grinding, then MMORPG's are probably not for you.

 

Third, just ridiculous.  You want to go around PKing others because you're bored and want less penalties.

Edited by feebleone

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Posted

Scenario:
I'm out grinding because the game forces me to or I will fall behind the curve.  It's incredibly boring, but I have to do it.  I'd like to find SOME kind of enjoyment while I do it though.  A person walks up and starts grinding here too.  I flag up and kill them.  Did I kill them because I'm being mean?  Because I'm a violent individual?  Because I took offense to them "stealing" my mobs?  No... I killed them because I'm here doing boring shit, and PvP'ing other people is usually enjoyable, so I'd like to mix in some enjoyable aspects of the game while I'm doing the boring stuff.  This guy who died to me also doesn't mind PvP'ing.  He also wants to have fun, so he comes back and tries to kill me.   I kill him a few times and all of a sudden I'm negative karma.  A few more and I might be at minus 1 million.  For what?  What does the game think I did that's so harsh that I should spend the next 10+ hours grinding off negative karma for?  (We'll pretend I'm in Valencia and ignore all the other ridiculous death penalties).  Furthermore, I can't even go grind off the negative karma the game forced on me for doing nothing more than having some fun, because anyone can come attack me and I cannot defend myself.

 

This is the scenario in which this game is frustratingly flawed.  The scenario in which feebleone and 5-10 other people constantly spam on these forums about mean Pk'ers doing nothing but griefing trying to ruin somebody's day - while yes this does occur from time to time - is not the scenario in which most people are upset with the current PK system.

 

There's so many ways you can implement a good system in which actual griefers are punished, and other people who are just looking for other people who want to PvP can do so without being punished.

 

If I spend an hour grinding, I'd like to spend on average 20 minutes of that actually PvP'ing around the grind spot. And if you say to yourself "I want to spend an hour grinding, and 0 minutes of that pvp'ing because I don't enjoy it at all" then FINE.. All i ask for is a system that can appeal to both sides, but this game doesn't have it right now.

You know uh, there's a dueling feature in this game...? O.o

If both sides want to pvp then just start a duel instead of losing karma lmao. 

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You know uh, there's a dueling feature in this game...? O.o

If both sides want to pvp then just start a duel instead of losing karma lmao. 

You want me to sit around and /duel EVERY single person I see out in the open world just to see if they want to PvP?  The fact that you think this is an actual valid solution to the problem that exists in this game is mind boggling.

 

The actual solution they THINK they implemented is the guild war system, but it has a lot of draw backs in its own right.

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Posted

if you go red in the desert, especially "perma red" as you call it, you are cutoff from basically all the content in this game except that desert. You really don't understand what its like to grind back 1 mill karma in the desert. I don't even know why I'm bothering to answer you, nothing is going to change your mind, its obvious you are unwilling to see both sides of the coin. And once someone is red, especially in the desert you can literally suicide the guy until he leaves or goes 1 mill karma, or you kill him. The only way in this state of the game where you 100% can never kill someone (especially if they aren't fighting back) is if you are literally dog gear/level which means you shouldn't even be in the desert to begin with. Anyone in this game at 200 AP+ can kill anyone with the right combo, timing, ult, etc. And all it takes is for you to do it once while the guy who killed you once for the grindspot is now villain status and immediately gets sent away. 

 

Its simple, all problems are solved if you kill someone they should be forced to respawn town. No griefing either way that way and being stronger/winning a pvp fight actually means something. /Thread/Discussion. However I know you'll disagree so again whats the point ffs you call going to manshas to gain karma back as viable ffs.

Kinda funny you say this. "Anyone with 200+ap can kill anyone with the right combo" yet that one time I tuned into your stream I saw you on your 251ap witch spamming skills on cd in an enemy node base and you didn't even get a kill lul.

dem siege payouts must've made you pro huh 

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Misnomer:  This game offers any sort of reward for PvP/PK and the risk vs reward is in line with other similar games
Truth: There's absolutely no benefit from PK'ing a person as they lose nothing and they spawn 20 seconds away.  Meanwhile every similar game I have ever played (Eve, ArcheAge, Lineage 2, among others) offers either far less penalties for meaningless PvP or offers some sort of meaning to the PK.  Even carebear games like WoW offer more OWPvP than this game.

thats not entirely true either. At pirates for example you can spawn pretty far away, sometimes on a different island + after a long grind session you can easily lose a few million silver when getting PKed (coins). Btw, I still dont know if the attacker gets any of them or if they are just lost xD ...

Otherwise I fully agree that there should be some more use for PKing and there could be more "random" open world PvP happening, perhaps during trading. I mean we got smuggling which is like trading with PvP, but I dont think anyone cares about it because of low rewards... BDO has lots of possibilities but there is 0 incentive to make use of them.

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Posted

You see someone grinding in your spot.

Give it a little.  Keep grinding, 30 seconds with your eye on the radar.

They stay?  Ask them to leave.

They don't leave and they're in a guild, dec'm.

If they cannot be declared on, or are solo, PK them.

Send them a whisper, tell'm they gonna get their face pushed in every time.  You have 5 other characters parked at this camp.  They will run out of patience before you run out of karma (doesn't matter if this is true or not, just say it).  Maybe even tell them your GS and how you know their class better than they do.

Sounds like too much work?  Bruh...you got yourself to 60?  You should know this is nothing.  Easily doable standing on your head while fighting scrubs.

Why should you have to?  You don't, but it'll save you the headache in the long run, and save you the trouble of sh1tp0sting like a sucker.

 

If all else fails, maybe you are the one who should switch channels.  :P

 

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You want me to sit around and /duel EVERY single person I see out in the open world just to see if they want to PvP?  The fact that you think this is an actual valid solution to the problem that exists in this game is mind boggling.

 

The actual solution they THINK they implemented is the guild war system, but it has a lot of draw backs in its own right.

In your scenario, you said both sides wanted to have fun so why can't you duel. A duel literally takes a second to start. There's a difference between two guys wanting to pvp for fun like in your example and people who are there just to kill mobs and trigger you. Of course you can't duel every single person because not every single person wants to duel, but just wants to grief you c:

Maybe if you made your scenario a bit clearer this wouldn't be so mind boggling. Based on your scenario a simple duel is all it takes. If you can't spend 5 seconds to challenge someone to a duel but rather lost 1 million karma that's your problem.

If they made karma any less punishing i would be tempted to just take a day outta my week and screw around with kids grinding sausans since i know i heavily outgear them and there wouldn't be heavy punishments but the current karma system deters this which is good.

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