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[Urgent Issue] Region Tier Guild Ringers are ruining node wars


405 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Tbh I really don't know why people are blaming ManUp for the stale PvP scene.  

Its because they have been the staple stand out guild to do the one thing thats become common place for most strong guilds now, set up long standing agreements to gain an unfair advantage in wars in order to maintain and secure assets. People arent honestly realizing that the point of getting an ally isnt to make sieges more competitive, it's to make them LESS COMPETITIVE. To guarantee a win and high weekly payouts. We do understand this right? If you've been in a guild like ManUp thats doing this you cosign this and you DONT want to PvP, you just want to get your Gear score up. It's not an insult, its a fact.

But this isnt honestly just about ManUp it's about seige guilds in particular messing with node wars. There are guilds that exist that dont want to do sieges for many reasons. I can firmly say players who participate in sieges are willing to sacrifice fps and a smaller scale fighting experience for a bigger pay check because they want to above all else progress. Theres a difference between a siege guild player and a non-siege guild player, the mentality is very different. To alleviate this The devs might want to look into some things:

  • Limiting Node wars to certain "size" guilds
  • Lengthening the cooldown of leaving guild
  • Put a cap on how many guilds can participate on nodes, higher tiered nodes allowing more guilds.

I think what it takes to be a siege guild is obvious. Big numbers and relatively high gear. I dont think gear should restrict anyone from a fight as it concerns a territory or a node. Guilds with small membership but extremely geared members taking on guilds with  double their numbers and winning or putting up a good fight is always a fun experience. HOWEVER its not a fun experience when 70-100 players Per guild are participating for a node. I  think most "node war" relegated guilds dont like zerg type fights. Typically muster round 30-50 members and have fights that last more than an hour and a half. They dont like big numbers which usually translates to big lag. Less players usually means more enjoyable experience, nodes should probably have a cap on players/guilds that can participate. 

 

We will never as a playerbase be able to FORCE others to be as hardcore/competitive as our best. That requires dedication. What we can do though is distinguish what types of guild PvP we experience are, and in a way create "leagues". That way every guild can expect to go into a fight with a fair chance.

Edited by Nexius

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Its because they have been the staple stand out guild to do the one thing thats become common place for most strong guilds now, set up long standing agreements to gain an unfair advantage in wars in order to maintain and secure assets. People arent honestly realizing that the point of getting an ally isnt to make sieges more competitive, it's to make them LESS COMPETITIVE. To guarantee a win and high weekly payouts. We do understand this right? If you've been in a guild like ManUp thats doing this you cosign this and you DONT want to PvP, you just want to get your Gear score up. It's not an insult, its a fact.

But this isnt honestly just about ManUp it's about seige guilds in particular messing with node wars. There are guilds that exist that dont want to do sieges for many reasons. I can firmly say players who participate in sieges are willing to sacrifice fps and a smaller scale fighting experience for a bigger pay check because they want to above all else progress. Theres a difference between a siege guild player and a non-siege guild player, the mentality is very different. To alleviate this The devs might want to look into some things:

  • Limiting Node wars to certain "size" guilds
  • Lengthening the cooldown of leaving guild
  • Put a cap on how many guilds can participate on nodes, higher tiered nodes allowing more guilds.

I think what it takes to be a siege guild is obvious. Big numbers and relatively high gear. I dont think gear should restrict anyone from a fight as it concerns a territory or a node. Guilds with small membership but extremely geared members taking on guilds with  double their numbers and winning or putting up a good fight is always a fun experience. HOWEVER its not a fun experience when 70-100 players Per guild are participating for a node. I  think most "node war" relegated guilds dont like zerg type fights. Typically muster round 30-50 members and have fights that last more than an hour and a half. They dont like big numbers which usually translates to big lag. Less players usually means more enjoyable experience, nodes should probably have a cap on players/guilds that can participate. 

 

We will never as a playerbase be able to FORCE others to be as hardcore/competitive as our best. That requires dedication. What we can do though is distinguish what types of guild PvP we experience are, and in a way create "leagues". That way every guild can expect to go into a fight with a fair chance.

Or, allow guilds that own a castle to fight for other castles every week (they'll still be forced to own just 1, but can fight for more). Easy.

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Posted (edited)

Or, allow guilds that own a castle to fight for other castles every week (they'll still be forced to own just 1, but can fight for more). Easy.

Giving guilds that own a castle something to fight for is a healthy direction but I dont think interfering in another region is the way to go. If territory owning guilds had to defend assets every week, throughout the week, to maximize their castle profits that might help. Perhaps requiring Active maintenance of your territory is what is needed as the next step.  But ultimately it's not the fault of the players who dont own castles that the guilds owning castles have nothing to do. If you dont like what owning a castle has to offer, dont own the castle, force a stalemate every week, leaving your seige guild and make a small hardcore super geared group, or something; dont complain about not  actively enjoying PvP when it's clear making money is the first priority? This is PvP we're talking about, not gear progression, PvE, Master 2 trade or money making.

Those things shouldn't be considered as a priority that needs to be kept intact because they arent healthy to competitive integrity. PvP is usually the culmination of a players total progression and work at their class. Gear development should be mostly a personal gain and shouldnt be so heavily influenced by the result of a PvP win. PvP should stay just that imho PvP,  not a money making gold mine. This is what happens when money> PvP you ----- with the spirit of PvP and the integrity of an entire system. If castles arent competitive enough maybe they should offer alot less money then.

 Even if you dont explicitly state thats the reason we know it's the explicit reason because money is always the underlying factor of these major alliances. I've been in a few alliances and merc's myself. This isnt a secret. Some guilds and guild leaders want money, some guild members just want to log in every week for the guild bonus. People like this exist, there are people who PvP to exploit the money making advantages to further gear progression. Thats shouldnt take precedence for a competitive experience however, if anything it should be sacrificed.

 If you want more income go life skill. It honestly just boils down to what you allow players to do  and what wont allow. The devs always intend one thing, but players can take it a different direction. If the devs notice that castle owning guilds are staying in their castles for the money and are sending members to other guilds they need to rectify the issue by doing whats best for the majority and keeping the scene competitive. Those majority are still competing for something, the territory owning guild has already won what it's fought for and reaping the rewards, you gotta give other players a chance to win.

Edited by Nexius
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If you dont like what owning a castle has to offer, dont own the castle, force a stalemate every week, leaving your seige guild and make a small hardcore super geared group, or something; dont complain about not  actively enjoying PvP when it's clear making money is the first priority? This is PvP we're talking about, not gear progression, PvE, Master 2 trade or money making.

 

Well, the game offers me the posibility to leave the guild that owns a castle, and join another for node wars. If you don't like it, play another game.

See what i did there? Works both ways. 

No please, go cry around another corner. From the point of view of plebs like you it seems that the people owning a castle deserve to be punished. 

The devs always intend one thing, but players can take it a different direction. If the devs notice that castle owning guilds are staying in their castles for the money and are sending members to other guilds they need to rectify the issue by doing whats best for the majority and keeping the scene competitive. Those majority are still competing for something, the territory owning guild has already won what it's fought for and reaping the rewards, you gotta give other players a chance to win.

Emergent gameplay. Google it. 

And no, if the devs intended for people to not leave their guild to be able to join other as mercenaries, they they would have put the timer to 5 hundred years, not 24h (now lowered in KR/RU/JP to 3h). So please, don't put words into the mouth of the devs. Yes, the devs intended for emergent gameplay to exists, like any other game dev; yes, they intended for mercenary players and mercenary guilds to exists, like in ANY other mmorpg with gvg/pvp in it. The fact that you're incapable of dealing with those mercenary players just makes you a bad player and has nothing to do with the developer or the game. The game rewards the strong, not the weak. Just like any other game since 1985. Yes, big bad wolf can go and bite smaller wolves whenevr they want. Where the ----- does it state that gvg is supposed to be fair / esport-ish? 

Stop being such a snowflake and grow up.

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Posted

 

Well, the game offers me the posibility to leave the guild that owns a castle, and join another for node wars. If you don't like it, play another game.

See what i did there? Works both ways. 

No please, go cry around another corner. From the point of view of plebs like you it seems that the people owning a castle deserve to be punished. 

Emergent gameplay. Google it. 

And no, if the devs intended for people to not leave their guild to be able to join other as mercenaries, they they would have put the timer to 5 hundred years, not 24h (now lowered in KR/RU/JP to 3h). So please, don't put words into the mouth of the devs. Yes, the devs intended for emergent gameplay to exists, like any other game dev; yes, they intended for mercenary players and mercenary guilds to exists, like in ANY other mmorpg with gvg/pvp in it. The fact that you're incapable of dealing with those mercenary players just makes you a bad player and has nothing to do with the developer or the game. The game rewards the strong, not the weak. Just like any other game since 1985. Yes, big bad wolf can go and bite smaller wolves whenevr they want. Where the ----- does it state that gvg is supposed to be fair / esport-ish? 

Stop being such a snowflake and grow up.

the 3hr timers was for bugged guilds. It's longer in kr now. If they want siege guilds to fight smaller guilds or t3 to fight t2 later that week. They wouldn't have literally locked it.  And seeing siege guilds drop on t1 nodes for "pvp" is funny. I hope they add important guild content on Monday and Wednesday so people jumping around will get punished for not being in the main guild for that content.

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Posted

 

Well, the game offers me the posibility to leave the guild that owns a castle, and join another for node wars. If you don't like it, play another game.

See what i did there? Works both ways. 

No please, go cry around another corner. From the point of view of plebs like you it seems that the people owning a castle deserve to be punished. 

Emergent gameplay. Google it. 

And no, if the devs intended for people to not leave their guild to be able to join other as mercenaries, they they would have put the timer to 5 hundred years, not 24h (now lowered in KR/RU/JP to 3h). So please, don't put words into the mouth of the devs. Yes, the devs intended for emergent gameplay to exists, like any other game dev; yes, they intended for mercenary players and mercenary guilds to exists, like in ANY other mmorpg with gvg/pvp in it. The fact that you're incapable of dealing with those mercenary players just makes you a bad player and has nothing to do with the developer or the game. The game rewards the strong, not the weak. Just like any other game since 1985. Yes, big bad wolf can go and bite smaller wolves whenevr they want. Where the ----- does it state that gvg is supposed to be fair / esport-ish? 

Stop being such a snowflake and grow up.

Its not a punishment, it's putting context and farness to every situation. They changed the ability for seige guilds to own multiple territories for the explicit reason of maintaining competition. If they wanted you to conquer the entire map, they would allow it freely. They explicitly restricted that. I have no issues with mercenaries but being a full-time seige guild and taking nodes? Nah not cool, leave the nodes to the guys who can't fight for territory.

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Personally, I don't really give a shit about the whole guild hopping thing. Siege guilds should be able to go to t3s and the should bring back region holders being able to place on another region imo. The payout money doesn't really matter to me either, an extra couple hundred mil a week is a drop in the bucket once you start hitting around 500gs, but I can see how some people who see 150m (ie 350-400gs t1 fodder) as a ton of money might have an issue with it.

What I do find to be an issue is feeding allied guilds nodes for their help during siege. Suppose a siege guild and their ally place on a node with 3 other forts. It doesn't automatically become a 2v3, but rather starts out as a 2v1v1v1. Ad hoc alliances take time to form and the alliance can usually take down or almost take down one of the other three guilds in the first 20 minutes or so while people are still scouting and trying to figure out who the siege guild ally is, or if there even is one. Facing this situation and ultimately losing can demoralize guilds into bumping themselves down a tier, which causes a trickle down effect down all the way to t1s. If you take a look at the nodes right now, guilds that previously went for t3s are going for t2s, some guilds that previously held some t2s are exclusively going for t1s, while some of the guilds that hold t3s that aren't siege alt guilds most likely got them through sniping them (basing this speculation off roster size and gear reqs). Basically, guilds are dodging nodes that they have the capability to contest in order to try to avoid potentially unfair fights.

Before you guys ask, the 2v1v1v1 situation I described literally happened on a non-backed up t2 node a while ago when a territory alt guild decided to feed a smaller guild a node. But whatever. Node wars are still lit, even if we see the occasional guild that should be going for t3s from time to time. 

I don't think whining about this on forums is gonna do much but defending the current system is also stupid. Saying that you only hop from siege guilds because you "love pvp" is hypocritical when feeding your allies nodes is what is causing the complaints about the current pvp scene from the top down. Even more so when the purpose of securing these allies is to have them place on your region in order to help defend it. All that does is deter others from placing on your territory, giving us the currently stale siege situation. If I were in manup when that 8v1 barcode zerg happened, playing dynasty warriors that day would have been the best day of my life. Instead, you guys got salty and ddosed the servers in response. :^)

There's nothing stopping you from joining a non-siege guild with similarly high requirements like FML or Vertex if you want to node war every day, except for the payouts, which is probably why people are accusing you of being greedy shits.

Ultimately, its up to the devs to implement something that will fix the underlying issues. Maybe the merc system will do something that lets guilds pay others without these dumbass premade alliances on nodes. I dunno.

 

TLDR: Alliances are gay. Territory holders placing on t3s and t2s are causing other guilds to dodge nodes they would usually go for, causing a trickle down effect where some guilds get boring, easy fights, and lower payouts, and smaller/newer guilds get stomped for daring to place on a t1. You're also a -----ing idiot if you think that the current system is absolutely fine as is.

Both of those non siege guilds were in sieges this week (again) and one took Serendia (again)

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Posted (edited)

Its not a punishment, it's putting context and farness to every situation. They changed the ability for seige guilds to own multiple territories for the explicit reason of maintaining competition. If they wanted you to conquer the entire map, they would allow it freely. They explicitly restricted that. I have no issues with mercenaries but being a full-time seige guild and taking nodes? Nah not cool, leave the nodes to the guys who can't fight for territory.

LOL

No, they changed the siege owning multiple territories because a guild owned 5 territories for 3 months in RU. Thatțs why they changed it, to avoid unbalance between players due to siege payment.

Yes, they restricted that. They didnțt resitict people that play the mercenary from switching guilds. What does that tell you? It tells me that you're butthurt as hell.

the 3hr timers was for bugged guilds. It's longer in kr now. If they want siege guilds to fight smaller guilds or t3 to fight t2 later that week. They wouldn't have literally locked it.  And seeing siege guilds drop on t1 nodes for "pvp" is funny. I hope they add important guild content on Monday and Wednesday so people jumping around will get punished for not being in the main guild for that content.

yes, it's back to 24h. So no, not longer, it's normal.

 

Edited by Chun-Chun

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ManUp: 99
ChoNation: 98
Vision: 99
Thanks for following the rules gents

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ManUp: 99
ChoNation: 98
Vision: 99
Thanks for following the rules gents

T2 elephants came out, you're an idiot if you think you had any kind of effect on people. 

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ManUp: 99
ChoNation: 98
Vision: 99
Thanks for following the rules gents

LUL don't be delusional

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the 3hr timers was for bugged guilds. It's longer in kr now. If they want siege guilds to fight smaller guilds or t3 to fight t2 later that week. They wouldn't have literally locked it.  And seeing siege guilds drop on t1 nodes for "pvp" is funny. I hope they add important guild content on Monday and Wednesday so people jumping around will get punished for not being in the main guild for that content.

I'm still waiting to find out which t1s were dropped on by siege guilds (with the exception of the one crazy rollover silver pot).... I believe @Huntler asked a number of pages back. Seems we're still in a world of false accusations and crying over said accusations as there is no proof to base it off of.


ChoNation: 98

Thanks for following the rules gents

Which region do we own again? (And we're not all male)

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I'm still waiting to find out which t1s were dropped on by siege guilds (with the exception of the one crazy rollover silver pot).... I believe @Huntler asked a number of pages back. Seems we're still in a world of false accusations and crying over said accusations as there is no proof to base it off of.

Which region do we own again? (And we're not all male)

I guess it depends on what you consider a siege guild but both Kyoukai and Aftershock were on a T1 last week.  

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ManUp: 99
ChoNation: 98
Vision: 99
Thanks for following the rules gents

Cho Nation lost their territory too..... Go look at the map

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Posted (edited)

I guess it depends on what you consider a siege guild but both Kyoukai and Aftershock were on a T1 last week.  

At least in terms of the complaints of this thread, people consider anyone currently holding a region a siege guild (as their argument is we are supposed to be locked out and not be able to drop on other nodes). If there is a different argument that 100 man guilds or big guilds or whatever shouldn't drop on T1s, then hey let that argument be made. As someone pointed out a few posts back, I am just pointing out it seems some messages are mixing/blending and it becomes blatant falsehoods at that point where we puppet some line like: Manup is killing PvP by dropping on t1s or some nonsense like that.

 

This community circlejerks very quickly without verifying things. Again I point to the thread last week of people complaining about said siege guilds dropping t1 to farm titles, all the while these people didn't realize until page 4 of that thread that you cannot farm titles in node wars.... you just kind of have to shake your head and wonder.

 

If someone sees something on these forums a lot of the lemmings just believe it and parrot it.

Edited by Huntler
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Posted (edited)

At least in terms of the complaints of this thread, people consider anyone currently holding a region a siege guild (as their argument is we are supposed to be locked out and not be able to drop on other nodes). If there is a different argument that 100 man guilds or big guilds or whatever shouldn't drop on T1s, then hey let that argument be made. As someone pointed out a few posts back, I am just pointing out it seems some messages are mixing/blending and it becomes blatant falsehoods at that point where we puppet some line like: Manup is killing PvP by dropping on t1s or some nonsense like that.

 

This community circlejerks very quickly without verifying things. Again I point to the thread last week of people complaining about said siege guilds dropping t1 to farm titles, all the while these people didn't realize until page 4 of that thread that you cannot farm titles in node wars.... you just kind of have to shake your head and wonder.

 

If someone sees something on these forums a lot of the lemmings just believe it and parrot it.

I've been on both sides on the coin, in the end I said ----- it and I do whats right by my guys.  If its hunting big fights on T1s and steam rolling people one week thats what it is, if its running solo or running with another guild on t2/t3 thats what it is.  Node wars are such a crap shoot, no matter what you plan you can end up getting no fight or a lopsided fight either way.

The best fights I have gotten since the merge have been on t1, I've run into alliance, I've run into a bunch of little guilds and had great fights.  On t2 and t3 I have run into snipe guilds and I have also run into siege guilds and the big boys.  

People are quick to kick people out of T1 and feed them to the lions on t2/t3  while other guilds complain that Manup, Vision, BR etc. are happy to sit in their city and not pvp while complaining that they are smurfing.  we cant have it all 3 ways

Edited by Ironjaw
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we cant have it all 3 ways

You can have it more then 3 ways in this circle jerk ;)

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You can have it more then 3 ways in this circle jerk ;)

I only have so many.... ohhhhhhhhh

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At least in terms of the complaints of this thread, people consider anyone currently holding a region a siege guild (as their argument is we are supposed to be locked out and not be able to drop on other nodes). If there is a different argument that 100 man guilds or big guilds or whatever shouldn't drop on T1s, then hey let that argument be made. As someone pointed out a few posts back, I am just pointing out it seems some messages are mixing/blending and it becomes blatant falsehoods at that point where we puppet some line like: Manup is killing PvP by dropping on t1s or some nonsense like that.

 

This community circlejerks very quickly without verifying things. Again I point to the thread last week of people complaining about said siege guilds dropping t1 to farm titles, all the while these people didn't realize until page 4 of that thread that you cannot farm titles in node wars.... you just kind of have to shake your head and wonder.

 

If someone sees something on these forums a lot of the lemmings just believe it and parrot it.

My issue is with current region holding guilds that organize to swap it's members to a secondary guild that doesn't hold a region, or send their members to guilds to carry them to a T2/T3 just so that they're available to drop on a region that upcoming weekend if needed. It has a trickle down effect from the top down that stifles growth in the lower tiers, and doesn't actually allow for guilds to grow.

Additionally, I'm not sure whether the T1/region tier thing is directed at me or not. I went back and read through the thread, and didn't see where that comes up in the initial post (or any of my posts) until now. If it's not directed at me, disregard this second part then.

Note: Whoops, thought Cho still had a region.

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1st time viewer, this week, long time manup member, i agree with everything even if it makes no sense

down with the zerg

down with manup

down with barcode

down with chonation

down with the sneks

down with the balds

down with the strong

down with the retardos

Finally, my 20man guild will be able to do t3 nodes this week, thanks to @Roxies

if anyone deserve full credit for their hard work, it is Roxies, all of us should devote atleast 5min to pay tribute to this man. :)

congrats my dude, you worked hard.

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I guess it depends on what you consider a siege guild but both Kyoukai and Aftershock were on a T1 last week.  

The main complaints in this thread is talking about guilds that are holding a region and doing tier 1-3 nodes with alt guilds at the same week to get double dipping into payouts.

"Seige capable" guilds that do not own a region are free to do tier 1-3 node wars as per game design.

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God Bless North America. Land of the free, home of the people who will find a way to exploit anything. This is why we are the leaders of the world.

 

....and thats why u got Trump... embarrassing ur country down to its knees ...

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....and thats why u got Trump... embarrassing ur country down to its knees ...

Pretty sure Obama got that title first.  But ya, back on topic.

*popcorn*

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The main complaints in this thread is talking about guilds that are holding a region and doing tier 1-3 nodes

Which region holders do t1s?

Still waiting

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Which region holders do t1s?

Still waiting

None. There is nothing to back it up. He's just mad he can't get a free payout doing nodes is what this is all about.

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