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I really want to get back into BDO, but...

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Posted

Well I mean. You're saying "yes i know this is all opinion but it's just your opinion is wrong and mine is right."

Your reasoning for crying is literally a sitcom punchline usually delivered by a ditzy character. 

don't bother, she's right and everyone else is wrong .

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It was said earlier in this thread that enchanting takes 0 effort.  That's demonstrably wrong.  1000 black stones, a hundred pieces of armor, 500 memory fragments and 100 concentrated stones don't just show up in your damn inventory.  You gather, you grind, you either workshop the armor or buy that.  Then, you build stacks on 7 different characters.  Then, of course, you have to had farmed the items you're enchanting.

The process is something that happens over the course of week if not longer, usually per item that needs to be upgraded.  It's not a zero effort thing.  It requires time management, a bit of work ethic and some willpower not to blow your money on stupid crap that will ruin your chances.

So you either grind and grind and grind and grind and eventually buy the item, or you enchant by combining grinding with gathering and maybe some CP work.

Honestly, zero effort.  what game are you playing down in the salt mines?  It ain't this one.

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Posted (edited)

It was said earlier in this thread that enchanting takes 0 effort.  That's demonstrably wrong.  1000 black stones, a hundred pieces of armor, 500 memory fragments and 100 concentrated stones don't just show up in your damn inventory.  You gather, you grind, you either workshop the armor or buy that.  Then, you build stacks on 7 different characters.  Then, of course, you have to had farmed the items you're enchanting.

The process is something that happens over the course of week if not longer, usually per item that needs to be upgraded.  It's not a zero effort thing.  It requires time management, a bit of work ethic and some willpower not to blow your money on stupid crap that will ruin your chances.

So you either grind and grind and grind and grind and eventually buy the item, or you enchant by combining grinding with gathering and maybe some CP work.

Honestly, zero effort.  what game are you playing down in the salt mines?  It ain't this one.

I find that people who complain the loudest about enchanting taking "zero effort" and being "all about luck" just can't stand failure and manage their time/resources poorly. Instead of taking the blame onto themselves they attempt DUO five times, get fed up and blow a 50 stack on it. Then complain about not being able to get failstacks for TRI and cry that everyone else who has TET got it because of pure luck.

 

Edited by Cardiel
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Posted

I find that people who complain the loudest about enchanting taking "zero effort" and being "all about luck" just can't stand failure and manage their time/resources poorly. Instead of taking the blame onto themselves they attempt DUO five times, get fed up and blow a 50 stack on it. Then complain about not being able to get failstacks for TRI and cry that everyone else who has TET got it because of pure luck.

 

I got TET by failing a lot.  It's a fact of life that you often have to fail to succeed.  I'm glad there are more people who understand this basic principle.

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Posted

Well I mean. You're saying "yes i know this is all opinion but it's just your opinion is wrong and mine is right."

Your reasoning for crying is literally a sitcom punchline usually delivered by a ditzy character. 

You seriously think this system is okay. It's one of the main reasons people have quit and i know a few people who didn't even give this game a try only because of the enhancement system. It's not a good system and the majority believes that, gambling is not fun. Yeah some people don't care about it and some think its okay but if there was no gambling at all the game would be 10 times better. Your effort should actually matter and rewarded not roll the dice to decide if you should progress or not. It's like you work in a job and your boss rolls the dice to see if he is going to pay you or not even though you worked. Ask a player outside of this game what he thinks about that and i guaranty you that he won't think that's fair. I just don't get how someone thinks this system is fair.

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I find that people who complain the loudest about enchanting taking "zero effort" and being "all about luck" just can't stand failure and manage their time/resources poorly. Instead of taking the blame onto themselves they attempt DUO five times, get fed up and blow a 50 stack on it. Then complain about not being able to get failstacks for TRI and cry that everyone else who has TET got it because of pure luck.

 

lol To butcher a very profound quote:

The TET has failed more times than the DUO has even TRI'd.

You seriously think this system is okay. It's one of the main reasons people have quit and i know a few people who didn't even give this game a try only because of the enhancement system. It's not a good system and the majority believes that, gambling is not fun. Yeah some people don't care about it and some think its okay but if there was no gambling at all the game would be 10 times better. Your effort should actually matter and rewarded not roll the dice to decide if you should progress or not. It's like you work in a job and your boss rolls the dice to see if he is going to pay you or not even though you worked. Ask a player outside of this game what he thinks about that and i guaranty you that he won't think that's fair. I just don't get how someone thinks this system is fair.

People quitting because they don't like the game? Crazy.

Instead of trying to proclaim that you speak for the majority, take responsibility for yourself and politely state your opinions and suggestions. Then decide if you want to stay. 

Or leave. 

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I find that people who complain the loudest about enchanting taking "zero effort" and being "all about luck" just can't stand failure and manage their time/resources poorly. Instead of taking the blame onto themselves they attempt DUO five times, get fed up and blow a 50 stack on it. Then complain about not being able to get failstacks for TRI and cry that everyone else who has TET got it because of pure luck.

 

You do know that RNG stands for random number generator. How exactly aren't people who have succeeded an enhancement not lucky? Personal experience: I've tried to go to tri with 50 fs 4 times and failed and I know people who tried with less or the same fs and succeeded in their first try. Random is random and theoretically speaking it's possible you can never succeed. They should have left the gambling for the casinos not bring that into games.

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Posted (edited)

You do know that RNG stands for random number generator. How exactly aren't people who have succeeded an enhancement not lucky? Personal experience: I've tried to go to tri with 50 fs 4 times and failed and I know people who tried with less or the same fs and succeeded in their first try. Random is random and theoretically speaking it's possible you can never succeed. They should have left the gambling for the casinos not bring that into games.

Because lucky in the context you're using it in implies that people are getting TRI at 0fs left and right. It's a lot of money and time to get to TRI. 

If anything, you're having an unlucky spell which happens in every game that has any aspect of RNG.

Theoretically you can play any game with bosses that drop loot and never get the piece you want. 

In reality though, you eventually get it if you try enough times. You may have to work harder than someone else, but that's the game. I like it. Others like it. Some don't like it. If you don't like it and continue to play and complain and insist everyone else is wrong, you're the only one acting delusional.

 

Edited by Cardiel
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Posted

You do know that RNG stands for random number generator. How exactly aren't people who have succeeded an enhancement not lucky? Personal experience: I've tried to go to tri with 50 fs 4 times and failed and I know people who tried with less or the same fs and succeeded in their first try. Random is random and theoretically speaking it's possible you can never succeed. They should have left the gambling for the casinos not bring that into games.

It is RNG, but it's heavily, heavily influenced by how you do it.  There are guides on this that explain how it works and what increases your chances.  Here's my personal experience.

TET on +49

TRI on +38, +42, +33, +36

DUO on +27, +30, +22, +19, +33

PRI on +17, +11, +12, +19, +21, +8, +17, +17, +15, +15, +15, +15

I've never had a 50+ stack on any character.  I know some who have had +97 and still failed TET.  They are following guidelines, but they switch characters too often, it messes things up and just makes the stack bigger.  The majority of people who enchant succeed on the numbers i listed above.  They're all within or just above/just below the ranges listed for enchanting.

I remember when I was in all DUO gear, looking at everyone else getting TRI and TET thinking I will never get there.  I didn't even have boss gear.  Then i stopped worrying and put my head down.  Yes, I only have one TET.  Right now.  I've been focusing on leveling and I'm saving my money to enchant everything else right now.

You can do it if you spend more time working toward it, rather than complaining about circumstances.  If you don't want to do it, then yeah, I'd think about another game.

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Posted

Because lucky in the context you're using it in implies that people are getting TRI at 0fs left and right. It's a lot of money and time to get to TRI. 

If anything, you're having an unlucky spell which happens in every game that has any aspect of RNG.

Theoretically you can play any game with bosses that drop loot and never get the piece you want. 

In reality though, you eventually get it if you try enough times. You may have to work harder than someone else, but that's the game. I like it. Others like it. Some don't like it. If you don't like it and continue to play and complain and insist everyone else is wrong, you're the only one acting delusional.

 

First of all i did state my opinion and even gave you some fine examples on how the system is not good and it makes no sense and no i can't be sure why people quit the game but the player base has dropped a lot since release and i few people i know have quit just because of that system. I can only assume more than just those people i know have quit for the same reason as it's one of the biggest problems in this games and no that's not only me saying that. Second we are talking about the ENHANCEMENT SYSTEM not the overall RNG in this game. The RNG in drops, lucky boxes, foe knowledge is totally okay because that's the only fair way to go with those stuff. This way even people with bad gear have a change of getting better gear for bosses or foes. But when it comes to enhancement and someone who spends a lot of time in this game to gather the appropriate resources and money should be rewarded for his effort not force him to roll the dice and get whatever the system chooses for him. The system is okay until +15 because you can force to enhance which is an alternative way for those who don't want to gamble but past 15 there is no force and you must gamble which is unacceptable. They don't want to drastically change that system? Fine, at least give as an alternative way. That actually was not something that was in the game. It was released later with the game and it's necessary if you want to access the new content of the game (I'm talking about past 15 gear). So even if someone comes out saying you should know how the game is before buying it. Well you can't know everything about a game without even trying it and also our version was supposed to be different than the KR version like the developers said but i don't see such a big difference. The game is partially p2w and we did pay to actually be able to play the game unlike in KR where people play for free. So yeah here is an over extended reply that you needed. Careful calling someone delusional or offending him, just careful with that.

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First of all i did state my opinion and even gave you some fine examples on how the system is not good and it makes no sense and no i can't be sure why people quit the game but the player base has dropped a lot since release and i few people i know have quit just because of that system. I can only assume more than just those people i know have quit for the same reason as it's one of the biggest problems in this games and no that's not only me saying that. Second we are talking about the ENHANCEMENT SYSTEM not the overall RNG in this game. The RNG in drops, lucky boxes, foe knowledge is totally okay because that's the only fair way to go with those stuff. This way even people with bad gear have a change of getting better gear for bosses or foes. But when it comes to enhancement and someone who spends a lot of time in this game to gather the appropriate resources and money should be rewarded for his effort not force him to roll the dice and get whatever the system chooses for him. The system is okay until +15 because you can force to enhance which is an alternative way for those who don't want to gamble but past 15 there is no force and you must gamble which is unacceptable. They don't want to drastically change that system? Fine, at least give as an alternative way. That actually was not something that was in the game. It was released later with the game and it's necessary if you want to access the new content of the game (I'm talking about past 15 gear). So even if someone comes out saying you should know how the game is before buying it. Well you can't know everything about a game without even trying it and also our version was supposed to be different than the KR version like the developers said but i don't see such a big difference. The game is partially p2w and we did pay to actually be able to play the game unlike in KR where people play for free. So yeah here is an over extended reply that you needed. Careful calling someone delusional or offending him, just careful with that.

tldr

I skimmed it and only noticed the bottom. Yes, you started off pretty argumentative so I didn't bother sugar coating anything. 

Bored of this conversation now. Good luck. 

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It is RNG, but it's heavily, heavily influenced by how you do it.  There are guides on this that explain how it works and what increases your chances.  Here's my personal experience.

TET on +49

TRI on +38, +42, +33, +36

DUO on +27, +30, +22, +19, +33

PRI on +17, +11, +12, +19, +21, +8, +17, +17, +15, +15, +15, +15

I've never had a 50+ stack on any character.  I know some who have had +97 and still failed TET.  They are following guidelines, but they switch characters too often, it messes things up and just makes the stack bigger.  The majority of people who enchant succeed on the numbers i listed above.  They're all within or just above/just below the ranges listed for enchanting.

I remember when I was in all DUO gear, looking at everyone else getting TRI and TET thinking I will never get there.  I didn't even have boss gear.  Then i stopped worrying and put my head down.  Yes, I only have one TET.  Right now.  I've been focusing on leveling and I'm saving my money to enchant everything else right now.

You can do it if you spend more time working toward it, rather than complaining about circumstances.  If you don't want to do it, then yeah, I'd think about another game.

Well not really an option to just quit since as i said to someone else this was something that came out to the game later and in order to access the new content of the game you have to have better gear (past +15) which to do you have to gamble. Well I'm sorry but that's plain crook and no i can't know everything about a game when it hasn't been released yet in EU. I learned a few thinks about the game from the KR but you can't possibly learn everything from the internet. You have to try it yourself.

tldr

I skimmed it and only noticed the bottom. Yes, you started off pretty argumentative so I didn't bother sugar coating anything. 

Bored of this conversation now. Good luck. 

Okay, bye. Glad i shut you up (I guess that happens when someone is right).

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Posted (edited)

Okay, bye. Glad i shut you up (I guess that happens when someone is right).

No, you're just bad at management (and salty af) and no amount of words will convince you of that so I'm cutting my losses while I'm ahead.

Edited by Cardiel

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No, you're just bad at management (and salty af) and no amount of words will convince you of that so I'm cutting my losses while I'm ahead.

Bye = farewell

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Well not really an option to just quit since as i said to someone else this was something that came out to the game later and in order to access the new content of the game you have to have better gear (past +15) which to do you have to gamble. Well I'm sorry but that's plain crook and no i can't know everything about a game when it hasn't been released yet in EU. I learned a few thinks about the game from the KR but you can't possibly learn everything from the internet. You have to try it yourself.

You're not making a lot of sense.  I see your point, yes, but it doesn't relate.  If you can give me something that states Force Enhance was their intention all along and they never planned to add an additional gear upgrade type until someone suddenly decided to do it one day, you might have something.  However, development with these kinds of games...i have a hard time believing it's done on whims.  It's much more likely that they planned to have further gear upgrades down the line.

Yes, you can't know what they're planning, but exactly what does that have to do with whether you continue to play or not?  You can say "If i knew that ahead of time I never would have played" but there are other games that have had similar systems.  Aion comes to mind.  Then they put that game on easy street (eventually) and hardly anyone takes it seriously.

Competitive play is based around overcoming harsh circumstances.  This is a pretty competitive game, you know.  Complain all you like, but the game is what it is.  Don't you think you'd make better progress with life in general if you s--t or get off the pot?

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Bye = farewell

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Guess anyone who takes "I'm not reading your wall of text about how rng isn't fair because you failed more times than you would've liked" and thinks "HA I won!" speaks volumes.

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 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Guess anyone who takes "I'm not reading your wall of text about how rng isn't fair because you failed more times than you would've liked" and thinks "HA I won!" speaks volumes.

Guess someone who is raised to be rude and can't deal with other people's opinions think he can say whatever he wants. If you don't care and you think I'm wrong don't reply then. Nobody forces you to reply but for replying you obviously care.

You're not making a lot of sense.  I see your point, yes, but it doesn't relate.  If you can give me something that states Force Enhance was their intention all along and they never planned to add an additional gear upgrade type until someone suddenly decided to do it one day, you might have something.  However, development with these kinds of games...i have a hard time believing it's done on whims.  It's much more likely that they planned to have further gear upgrades down the line.

Yes, you can't know what they're planning, but exactly what does that have to do with whether you continue to play or not?  You can say "If i knew that ahead of time I never would have played" but there are other games that have had similar systems.  Aion comes to mind.  Then they put that game on easy street (eventually) and hardly anyone takes it seriously.

Competitive play is based around overcoming harsh circumstances.  This is a pretty competitive game, you know.  Complain all you like, but the game is what it is.  Don't you think you'd make better progress with life in general if you s--t or get off the pot?

I already said my opinion and it makes perfectly sense. I even gave examples to someone else above on how that system is not good. Some people simply don't have all day to spend in a game, they have other life responsibilities and they can only play a few hours. With that system those people will ether quit or stay behind a lot which is not fun. There are so many things they could do to improve that system. Even remove the drop when you fail would be a huge help. The game is really fun till +15 but past that since you can't force to enhance and have a guaranteed way to progress and access the Mediah content it's not a fair system. I personally don't have the time to play lucky slots to make my gear stronger and not only fail but go back and have even worse gear than before i try to enhance. As i said this is a part of the game that was released after the game was released so i wouldn't know about it. That doesn't mean i should stop playing, i have paid for this game just like anyone else and this is not fair. I have every right to say my opinion. If you disagree i don't have anything to say to you. It's not something against anyone or a specific class because it doesn't suit me. It's simply not fair at least for a category of people, some maybe don't care about it.

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So you prefer a way of force enchanting to PEN? Like with 150 concentrated stones for TET and 500 for PEN? I don't know if thats even worth it but the amount of Stones would be just as high.So we are talking about more than 15b Silver for just Armor and Weapons.

Accessoir would be like for PRI we need 2 to force DUO would be 4 or 5 TRI around 15 you get it the deal. Good luck on that Ogre PEN with around 100 you need. (That's around 8b)

Even that would only be reached by an incredibly low amount of people. People would never do that since buying it would in most cases be cheaper than forcing it and no one would hoard like 500 concentrated stones to just enchant 1 item to PEN... be real. :D

Forcing TRI is already not worth it... so why bothering?

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You're not making a lot of sense.  I see your point, yes, but it doesn't relate.  If you can give me something that states Force Enhance was their intention all along and they never planned to add an additional gear upgrade type until someone suddenly decided to do it one day, you might have something.  However, development with these kinds of games...i have a hard time believing it's done on whims.  It's much more likely that they planned to have further gear upgrades down the line.

Yes, you can't know what they're planning, but exactly what does that have to do with whether you continue to play or not?  You can say "If i knew that ahead of time I never would have played" but there are other games that have had similar systems.  Aion comes to mind.  Then they put that game on easy street (eventually) and hardly anyone takes it seriously.

Competitive play is based around overcoming harsh circumstances.  This is a pretty competitive game, you know.  Complain all you like, but the game is what it is.  Don't you think you'd make better progress with life in general if you s--t or get off the pot?

 considering that they hard coded max level to 100 in the client, I'd say they probably will add a LOT more vertical progression in the game. Might be completely new and better items, our might be +25. It will happen definitely. When it does is a separate issue

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Guess someone who is raised to be rude and can't deal with other people's opinions think he can say whatever he wants. If you don't care and you think I'm wrong don't reply then. Nobody forces you to reply but for replying you obviously care.

Lmao You were rude, literally intolerant of someone else's opinion, had someone come in and give you the same dose of medicine, and are now calling therm rude and intolerant. Maybe your problem really does stem more from your own abilities than you think? 

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Guess someone who is raised to be rude and can't deal with other people's opinions think he can say whatever he wants. If you don't care and you think I'm wrong don't reply then. Nobody forces you to reply but for replying you obviously care.

I already said my opinion and it makes perfectly sense. I even gave examples to someone else above on how that system is not good. Some people simply don't have all day to spend in a game, they have other life responsibilities and they can only play a few hours. With that system those people will ether quit or stay behind a lot which is not fun. There are so many things they could do to improve that system. Even remove the drop when you fail would be a huge help. The game is really fun till +15 but past that since you can't force to enhance and have a guaranteed way to progress and access the Mediah content it's not a fair system. I personally don't have the time to play lucky slots to make my gear stronger and not only fail but go back and have even worse gear than before i try to enhance. As i said this is a part of the game that was released after the game was released so i wouldn't know about it. That doesn't mean i should stop playing, i have paid for this game just like anyone else and this is not fair. I have every right to say my opinion. If you disagree i don't have anything to say to you. It's not something against anyone or a specific class because it doesn't suit me. It's simply not fair at least for a category of people, some maybe don't care about it.

 you're talking to someone who only has a few hours a day to play.  I make small gains, a bit at a time.  Sometimes my gear score doesn't change for a week or two.

 but when it does change, it goes up, because I prepare for failure when I make the attempts.

 if you're unwilling to quit, then try to enjoy the game's circumstances.  It will only hurt to ----- and moan the whole time.

 

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Lmao You were rude, literally intolerant of someone else's opinion, had someone come in and give you the same dose of medicine, and are now calling therm rude and intolerant. Maybe your problem really does stem more from your own abilities than you think? 

I wasn't talking to you in the first place, i told my opinion about what's wrong with the game. Two people agreed with me and you and that other guy who must be a lovely person in real life obviously didn't. That's your problem, I'm not here to gamble and as i said this is something that came later with the game so i couldn't know to avoid it. If you don't know whats fair and what's not that's your problem. I know exactly what is fair and what is not and that system isn't. You may be okay with it or maybe you just don't care but some people do and want to enjoy every part of the game. As i said many times when i try to achieve something i like to be rewarded not leave it up to random numbers to tell me if i should be rewarded.

 you're talking to someone who only has a few hours a day to play.  I make small gains, a bit at a time.  Sometimes my gear score doesn't change for a week or two.

 but when it does change, it goes up, because I prepare for failure when I make the attempts.

 if you're unwilling to quit, then try to enjoy the game's circumstances.  It will only hurt to ----- and moan the whole time.

 

At the moment I'm waiting for someone to put the item i want on the marketplace so i can progress since all of my attempts were failures. I paid for this game and i have every right to complain when something is not fair with the hope they will do something about it. Obviously I'm not going to get my money back but this is just not fun. If i knew all along you have to gamble to progress i wouldn't have bought the game in the first place. A force to enhance past +15 would be a great alternative way for those that don't want to gamble. Those who like it will still be free to do it, here is a solution for everyone.

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Posted (edited)

At the moment I'm waiting for someone to put the item i want on the marketplace so i can progress since all of my attempts were failures. I paid for this game and i have every right to complain when something is not fair with the hope they will do something about it. Obviously I'm not going to get my money back but this is just not fun. If i knew all along you have to gamble to progress i wouldn't have bought the game in the first place. A force to enhance past +15 would be a great alternative way for those that don't want to gamble. Those who like it will still be free to do it, here is a solution for everyone.

I'll agree it's tough.  Though I have to disagree that it's unfair.  Do whacha do.  You can complain, not trying to say you can't.  Just think you'd feel better if you didn't and shifted your focus, that's all.

As to force enhance beyond +15, that's a tough sell for most, I think.  Most would still upgrade with RNJesus' blessing, I think.  It would likely cost less in the long run.  Unless they made it too easy, and then what's the point?

Edited by Alrikmerc
disagree, not agree. >.>

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I wasn't talking to you in the first place, i told my opinion about what's wrong with the game. Two people agreed with me and you and that other guy who must be a lovely person in real life obviously didn't. That's your problem, I'm not here to gamble and as i said this is something that came later with the game so i couldn't know to avoid it. If you don't know whats fair and what's not that's your problem. I know exactly what is fair and what is not and that system isn't. You may be okay with it or maybe you just don't care but some people do and want to enjoy every part of the game. As i said many times when i try to achieve something i like to be rewarded not leave it up to random numbers to tell me if i should be rewarded.

Mhm that's why "everyone knows I'm right, please keep arguing so i can tell you why you're wrong about your opinion" is definitely not you strongarming your opinion around then going "It's just my opinion honestly I feel so attacked right now" after someone calls you out on it. 

I've had several pleasant chats with people who don't like the system and just say "I don't like it." No issues with them, strangely. 

Annnnyway.

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I'll agree it's tough.  Though I have to disagree that it's unfair.  Do whacha do.  You can complain, not trying to say you can't.  Just think you'd feel better if you didn't and shifted your focus, that's all.

As to force enhance beyond +15, that's a tough sell for most, I think.  Most would still upgrade with RNJesus' blessing, I think.  It would likely cost less in the long run.  Unless they made it too easy, and then what's the point?

I love this game, it has an amazing combat system, beautiful graphics and the whole atmosphere is fantastic. But to me rolling the dice to progress doesn't seem fair. Because that's what it is, even with the proper fs and with backup gear you can still fail and not only stay with the same gear but drop lower than you were. Of course the game has to be harder as it goes but rng doesn't actually make it hard. It makes it pointless. Someone may risk it and try with wrong fs and succeed and someone with the correct fs may try and fail (which happened to me 5 times). The game doesn't reward your effort it rewards the lucky ones and i don't think that's fair. At least with force there was an alternative option where you can try if you don't want to risk it or don't feel lucky. Of course you would need a lot of stones to force and that's what would make the game hard since stones drop from life activities.

 

Mhm that's why "everyone knows I'm right, please keep arguing so i can tell you why you're wrong about your opinion" is definitely not you strongarming your opinion around then going "It's just my opinion honestly I feel so attacked right now" after someone calls you out on it. 

I've had several pleasant chats with people who don't like the system and just say "I don't like it." No issues with them, strangely. 

Annnnyway.

Okay, keep playing the victim and making me the bad guy.

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