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White Horn Bow vs Nouver

46 posts in this topic

Posted

So I've seen a discussion between Nouver and Jubre (Sorc equivalent of default AP offhand) come up on the Sorc discord and now on the forums and after trying tri Nouver vs Tri Jubre, I felt the latter gives a substancial increase in combo damage for pvp, with the Special Attack Damage +1 outweighing the 14 extra AP you gain on Nouver (5 on item 5 from the crystal, Jubre has 4 stat points wasted into DP compared to White Horn Bow)

 

I've been wondering if the same could be applied to Maehwa? My own Mae isn't geared at the moment since I've been class swapping, so I've been wondering if anyone of you (especially the EU side of servers, since you do far more theorycrafting and testing) has given this a shot and done some testing with a reliable sample size?

A huge amount of our combo damage comes from special attacks, mostly down attacks Tip of the Iceberg/Petal Drill (or both chained after another in the default combo). How much of an in/decrease would the special attack damage +1 give us over losing 10 AP?

 

I know losing 10 AP/5 Sheet AP sounds crazy to our resident NA AP monkeys but bear with me for a second and lets test this shit out.

 

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Posted

i'll downgrade my nouver to the level of my white horn come help me player test

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Posted (edited)

i have a tet white horn bow and no nouver so i cant do the test.

It is an interesting question,i am myself asking till forever how much black spirit cristal outweight the critical damage only on critical dmg ,i dont remember where i saw maybe somewhere in the darknet that 1 special atk dmg maybe +5-10% more damage of special atk dmg added on top of special damage and i dont know if this true or not even if  i used in the past black spirit cristal & critical dmg cristal& luck cristal,my conclusions is as a maehwa you will not notice those  5 ap/special dmg up coming from cristals if you are not full accu on your current target.

Disclaimer no real test have been done,just a feeling after a few hundreds of fight with different cristals socketed in secondary weapons.

Edited by dobe
clarifying about cristals

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Posted

Bump for follow

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Posted

I find it difficult to believe that if the +5 AP was tested to be better then a +1 Down Attack gem or even the Critical for that matter or worst case equal to it, that somehow the +1 stat modifier on the off-hand would then be stronger then twice that value in AP.

Otherwise everyone would be running around with +Down attack gems to begin with, but test away, curious to see the results.

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Posted

Beware of non shitposting:
I think the difference is not that great between the two bows since there is a huge ap gap, the wizzards in my guild did the equal test and 1+ Special attack dmg is around 10% damage. On Tri Nouver has 39Ap (2 Gemslots + 10% resistance) compared to 34Ap(+ 1Gemslot + 1 Special Dmg). The thing here is its +Damage not +Ap so if 10% dmg can outperform 10ap then the white horn bow wins.

>why not Kutum?

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Posted

Have to test with a crit damage gem with your 100% crit skills. Petal bloom and petal drill.

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Posted (edited)

I find it difficult to believe that if the +5 AP was tested to be better then a +1 Down Attack gem or even the Critical for that matter or worst case equal to it, that somehow the +1 stat modifier on the off-hand would then be stronger then twice that value in AP.

Otherwise everyone would be running around with +Down attack gems to begin with, but test away, curious to see the results.

In Sorcs case, Violation applies floating into air attack then down attack. The Special Attack +1 there gets easy double value

Maehwas Moonrise does floating into air attack hit as well but I dont think its anywhere near as substancia damage wisel, and its only the Moonrise that does it. I think you are right that maybe it would be smarter to just get a double down attack crystal in a Nouver and see if that isn't better in Maehwas case.

 

>why not Kutum?

I like having both Kutum and AP offhand to swap for different situations

Edited by CasualNova

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Posted (edited)

Better to have critical damage instead of down atk we will benefit from more damage as we have +50/60% crit on average on our skill who dont have any +% critical chance for the same damage modifier.(source? newby help menu).

Edited by dobe

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Posted

In Sorcs case, Violation applies floating into air attack then down attack. The Special Attack +1 there gets easy double value

Maehwas Moonrise does floating into air attack hit as well but I dont think its anywhere near as substancial, and its only the Moonrise that does it. I think you are right that maybe it would be smarter to just get a double down attack crystal in a Nouver and see if that isn't better in Maehwas case.

 

You have to think about all the damage you do when a target doesn't get CC'd as well though. 

I am curious to see some actual tests with the HP scanner tool done, but I feel like this debate rages on quite often and ends up roughly the same every time. It does seem that the +1 special attack likely brings you up to Nouver damage level during special attacks or at least so near too it that your eyes won't see a difference, but you're weaker everywhere else and thus why people default to Nouver for damage, or Kutum for more all round performance.

There was a test some time ago: http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/127624-kutum-or-nouver/#comment-1792955

However, he left the 2nd gem out of the Nouver offhand, and later went on to say: a TRI Jubre Talisman for example has 7 AP less than TRI Nouver. Using Jubre + a 7 AP ring did exactly as much PvE damage as my Nouver (i used a +1 crit crystal in my Nouver for this latter test, to get the same crit bonus as Ultimate Jubre with +1 to all special attacks).

So it's all relative, but don't let this turn you away from testing it thoroughly though. It'd be interesting to see, but it seems like everything else in the game where power spikes are minor, but you gradually move up. Grunil > Boss Armor, Liverto > Kzarka etc.

 

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Posted

Have to test with a crit damage gem with your 100% crit skills. Petal bloom and petal drill.

It's a test I'm working on for a bit now. Already done some smaller tests here and there. Planning to pull out a bigger test on it sometime soon though.

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Posted

Bump

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Posted

A bit Offtopic:

Anyone tested Evasion offhands already?

Rosar vs Krea vs White Horn Warrior Bow, which one gives more evasion?

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Posted (edited)

White Horn Warrior Bow its a good option for evasion offhand obtaining more evasion amount as tet rosar but with 1 crystal gap ( instead of 2 ).

I use it for RB or nodewars and its a very good option if you have 200+ AP with evasion offhand .

Hope it helps

All my ofhands btw so i test so much these things , had nouver at tri but sold them , TET white horn bow  do the same work and its cheaper.. :D

a00fb1484fa8fde625db8897bf4b1190.png

Edited by CrazyEsP
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Posted

White Horn Warrior Bow its a good option for evasion offhand obtaining more evasion amount as tet rosar but with 1 crystal gap ( instead of 2 ).

I use it for RB or nodewars and its a very good option if you have 200+ AP with evasion offhand .

Hope it helps

All my ofhands btw so i test so much these things , had nouver at tri but sold them , TET white horn bow  do the same work and its cheaper.. :D

a00fb1484fa8fde625db8897bf4b1190.png

Thanks alot! I will give it a shot! :P

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Posted

White Horn Warrior Bow its a good option for evasion offhand obtaining more evasion amount as tet rosar but with 1 crystal gap ( instead of 2 ).

I use it for RB or nodewars and its a very good option if you have 200+ AP with evasion offhand .

Hope it helps

All my ofhands btw so i test so much these things , had nouver at tri but sold them , TET white horn bow  do the same work and its cheaper.. :D

a00fb1484fa8fde625db8897bf4b1190.png

would a nouver at tri get 49 ap with 2x spirit crystal and 10% resist but with a tet white horn its 42ap with special dmg, thats a 7 ap difference....

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Posted

+crit damage. The white horn warrior does more damage on crits thsn nouver.

 

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Posted (edited)

 

would a nouver at tri get 49 ap with 2x spirit crystal and 10% resist but with a tet white horn its 42ap with special dmg, thats a 7 ap difference....

you are taking into acount ap from crystals , i dont (i use those  place those on evasion offhand and kutum)  and i have an aditional crit damage crystal on my ap offhand ,  tested and i develop more damage

The only ideal fuction to use a nouver is to take the picture of ap ( and over)

+crit damage. The white horn warrior does more damage on crits thsn nouver.

 

thats it.:D

even with less ap do the same job 

Edited by CrazyEsP

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Posted

+crit damage. The white horn warrior does more damage on crits thsn nouver.

 

surely that +crit dmg wont overcome a 7 ap difference, otherwise ppl would use crit dmg crystal than a 5 ap crystal.

 

you are taking into acount ap from crystals , i dont (i use those  place those on evasion offhand and kutum)  and i have an aditional crit damage crystal on my ap offhand ,  tested and i develop more damage

The only ideal fuction to use a nouver is to take the picture of ap ( and over)

thats it.:D

even with less ap do the same job 

well if you put crit crystal on white horn bow, that means the nouver with ap crystals gets a 12 ap difference, surely as i stated before the item effect and 1 crystal wont be more than 12 ap?

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Posted

The +crit damage and +special attack on the whwb do more damage thsn nouver with crit damage and nouver with awaken crystals.

The reason whwb does so much damage is the +special attack. It stacks with the +crit damage

That is why nouver with crit damage doesnt out damage whwb

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Posted (edited)

surely that +crit dmg wont overcome a 7 ap difference, otherwise ppl would use crit dmg crystal than a 5 ap crystal.

well if you put crit crystal on white horn bow, that means the nouver with ap crystals gets a 12 ap difference, surely as i stated before the item effect and 1 crystal wont be more than 12 ap?

Im telling you again , I had both offhands and tested both , nouver is a S H I T

With that AP diference the white horn with + crit crystal develop more damage , you can belive or not .

3ad610f5a7cee6ca6329014a54a09cad.png

Dont know in Usa , in EU its out of stock.

If not , buy one at tet and test it yourself ( thats how i figure it out ) , the only usefull thing with nouver is taking the AP screenshot ( and done).

I dont know why a supposed Boss piece could be that bad , but for now the roll move like that.

Hope it helps and im done in this post !:D

Edited by CrazyEsP

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Posted

Where is your evidence from any testing though? like actual numbers not just "trust me."

Also if +crit damage is so powerful then running 2 of them in Nouver should be just as strong as the +1 crit dmg + 1 special attack modifier. Given it's the same amount of bonus crit damage.

Or are you implying 2 of the +1 crit damage gems don't stack, if so where is the evidence supporting that?

 

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Posted

I did my test having both .

I no longer have a nouver to saw you the diference .

For me was evident so i insta sold the nouver. Try it by yourself a tet white horn its 300 mill and if you dont like it you can just sold it easily.

I dont like to just trust blindlly videos so i test it my self enchanting it or buying the item. and thats why i have lot of offhands.

Acc, evasion ap kutum. all of them have a situation to be used and for me tet white horn bow for nodes or just duel do the same thing  than a nouver, cheaper to enchant or to be bought.

Thats my point, could be better or not for you set but for me with 2 x TRI RCE its better that option by large.

 

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Posted

You don't like to trust blindly, yet instead of taking note of your tests and providing information you just say you sold your off-hand because white horn is better.

You said that Nouver with AP + Crit wasn't as good as the other bow with +crit, but how about Nouver with Crit Crit?

What skill were you using and how were you attacking? Was it a back attack Petal Bloom? Therefore using 2 special attack modifiers and gaining a double roll of bonus attack damage?

Like there is so many things to consider that need to be tested to determine an items strength.

Definitely possible the green offhand might be the best but need valid proof from all angles of approach, and not just a generic sweeping statement.

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Posted

I did my test having both .

I no longer have a nouver to saw you the diference .

For me was evident so i insta sold the nouver. Try it by yourself a tet white horn its 300 mill and if you dont like it you can just sold it easily.

I dont like to just trust blindlly videos so i test it my self enchanting it or buying the item. and thats why i have lot of offhands.

Acc, evasion ap kutum. all of them have a situation to be used and for me tet white horn bow for nodes or just duel do the same thing  than a nouver, cheaper to enchant or to be bought.

Thats my point, could be better or not for you set but for me with 2 x TRI RCE its better that option by large.

 

I did the same thing and tested myself. Unfortunately, i didnt record my data before i sold my nouver. Nor am i going to record data of future testing, albeit for anything.

anyone that owns a nouver can easily test this themselves and provide the data to those that request it if they so choose.

Until the. Crazyesp and i will enjoy our damage superiority.

You don't like to trust blindly, yet instead of taking note of your tests and providing information you just say you sold your off-hand because white horn is better.

You said that Nouver with AP + Crit wasn't as good as the other bow with +crit, but how about Nouver with Crit Crit?

What skill were you using and how were you attacking? Was it a back attack Petal Bloom? Therefore using 2 special attack modifiers and gaining a double roll of bonus attack damage?

Like there is so many things to consider that need to be tested to determine an items strength.

Definitely possible the green offhand might be the best but need valid proof from all angles of approach, and not just a generic sweeping statement.

it can easily be tested. Dont mash someone for testing it for tthemselves and not sharing the info. I have done all the tests myself and alluded to the same conclusion as crazyesp.

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