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White Horn Bow vs Nouver

46 posts in this topic

Posted

Until the. Crazyesp and i will enjoy our damage superiority.


Sure you can continue to think you have damage superiority and I am sure you do in some circumstances.

However, I wouldn't trade 300 HP for potential bonus damage when it's already so easy to 1 combo people with Nouver.

Maybe when the DP buff comes back, and the game changes with the shift KD defence, we'll see how it plays out.

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Posted

Sure you can continue to think you have damage superiority and I am sure you do in some circumstances.

However, I wouldn't trade 300 HP for potential bonus damage when it's already so easy to 1 combo people with Nouver.

Maybe when the DP buff comes back, and the game changes with the shift KD defence, we'll see how it plays out.

I typically use kutum anyway, unless im dueling. Then i will use wh.

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Posted

I typically use kutum anyway, unless im dueling. Then i will use wh.

Yeah I use Kutum for PvE and will continue to run Nouver for PvP, simply because I think if anything the special attack modifier being allowed to roll for as many effects as you trigger is just a game breaking bug and if it ends up being intended to function this way, then I wouldn't be too surprised to see it put on Nouver as well.

Which is why I want to know how tests were conducted because I know from reading about the Ninja Air combo, that any time you use an attack that will have 2 modifiers be it Down + Crit / Air + Crit / Back + Crit the Green off-hand will show up uncommonly strong. However do a test where you hit from the front on a low crit rate skill and watch its value shrink. Just something to think about.

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Posted

Yeah I use Kutum for PvE and will continue to run Nouver for PvP, simply because I think if anything the special attack modifier being allowed to roll for as many effects as you trigger is just a game breaking bug and if it ends up being intended to function this way, then I wouldn't be too surprised to see it put on Nouver as well.

Which is why I want to know how tests were conducted because I know from reading about the Ninja Air combo, that any time you use an attack that will have 2 modifiers be it Down + Crit / Air + Crit / Back + Crit the Green off-hand will show up uncommonly strong. However do a test where you hit from the front on a low crit rate skill and watch its value shrink. Just something to think about.

the wh only does more damage every cast on 100% crit abils like petal bloom and drill. It will only dealbmore damage on other abils if youbare consistently critting.

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Posted (edited)

You don't like to trust blindly, yet instead of taking note of your tests and providing information you just say you sold your off-hand because white horn is better.

You said that Nouver with AP + Crit wasn't as good as the other bow with +crit, but how about Nouver with Crit Crit?

What skill were you using and how were you attacking? Was it a back attack Petal Bloom? Therefore using 2 special attack modifiers and gaining a double roll of bonus attack damage?

Like there is so many things to consider that need to be tested to determine an items strength.

Definitely possible the green offhand might be the best but need valid proof from all angles of approach, and not just a generic sweeping statement.

 

First of all i didnt say ""sell your offhand "". I said that i sold mine cause is the worst offhand  ingame.

I say that its a shit , not the same thing , and if you wanna test?:  buy one,  use to stack fails for tet and if goes to tet you have the perfect chance to try it out .

Sorry for not saving my results . Was a test for me not for sharing but since a post show up of these. I said what i tested .

Attacks that i used ? awakenings combos  like Petal drill+moonrise+frost pillars+ flow to : evasion ,non evasion and mansha config ( ap ) target.

Dindt remember exact value  values of hp ,but with WH was wipe result and nouver dont.

If you dont like it  cause you have a shinny tet or tri nouver ? good for you its fine, i respect that you spend you resources on that offhand and you dont want to change you mind cause a random guy says that the other one its better  but, for real you have a better option. 

Its the same story with crystal , ap crystals, acuraccy one . you can try and try forever ,and all depends on your overall gear config.

Sure you can continue to think you have damage superiority and I am sure you do in some circumstances.

However, I wouldn't trade 300 HP for potential bonus damage when it's already so easy to 1 combo people with Nouver.

Maybe when the DP buff comes back, and the game changes with the shift KD defence, we'll see how it plays out.

Off course is on some circumstances , my ap offhand is the less used in my inventory , Kutum for pve , acc or ap for single duels ( depend on the target ) and for massive pvp ultimate white horn warrior bow ( and this one its mandatory or a must have to anyone) i keep deleting people with 200 Ap and the additional evasion its another lvl of playing maehwa.

Second , as the first post of this topic states 

So I've seen a discussion between Nouver and Jubre (Sorc equivalent of default AP offhand) come up on the Sorc discord and now on the forums and after trying tri Nouver vs Tri Jubre, I felt the latter gives a substancial increase in combo damage for pvp, with the Special Attack Damage +1 outweighing the 14 extra AP you gain on Nouver (5 on item 5 from the crystal, Jubre has 4 stat points wasted into DP compared to White Horn Bow)

 

I've been wondering if the same could be applied to Maehwa? My own Mae isn't geared at the moment since I've been class swapping, so I've been wondering if anyone of you (especially the EU side of servers, since you do far more theorycrafting and testing) has given this a shot and done some testing with a reliable sample size?

A huge amount of our combo damage comes from special attacks, mostly down attacks Tip of the Iceberg/Petal Drill (or both chained after another in the default combo). How much of an in/decrease would the special attack damage +1 give us over losing 10 AP?

 

I know losing 10 AP/5 Sheet AP sounds crazy to our resident NA AP monkeys but bear with me for a second and lets test this shit out.

 

I agree with that idea. even more , i could say that numbers in this game doesent matters and the true thing is in the hidden stats.

For example:

One of the most cheated ninjas in EU

https://streamable.com/gg2m6

Gears

Tamer

http://imgur.com/a/ZLsEq

Ninja-it doesent saw all the numbers but he is full tet

http://imgur.com/a/Vi2Tw

And thats it, this game doesent provide all the info as intended so you have to test stuff by your own , so i spend the money for it( 1 .7 bill) and if they doesent change the offhand stats( like igonre resist instead of 10 % resist for all i could think about it ) for me nouver offhand its a perfect tool to make your house more fancy. ! .:D

Edited by CrazyEsP

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Posted (edited)

though i agree on nouver being useless i still cant convince myself that white horn is better if it were then it;d be very very popular in kr; however i will soon be running a black horn warrior on musa, since that apparently gives the best damage boost out of every single offhand for musa, idk about maehwa, how was your testing on that?

Edited by Valient

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Posted

though i agree on nouver being useless i still cant convince myself that white horn is better if it were then it;d be very very popular in kr; however i will soon be running a black horn warrior on musa, since that apparently gives the best damage boost out of every single offhand for musa, idk about maehwa, how was your testing on that?

i didnt testest bhwb, but it is am interesting concept because of the amount of accuracy it awards. I could prolly test it at duo? But like ibssid i dont record my results. I could come bacj with a verdict though

 

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Posted

i didnt testest bhwb, but it is am interesting concept because of the amount of accuracy it awards. I could prolly test it at duo? But like ibssid i dont record my results. I could come bacj with a verdict though

 

i heard the acc is like on bhegs, doesnt go up past +15, havent seen tests, only rumours.

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Posted (edited)

though i agree on nouver being useless i still cant convince myself that white horn is better if it were then it;d be very very popular in kr; however i will soon be running a black horn warrior on musa, since that apparently gives the best damage boost out of every single offhand for musa, idk about maehwa, how was your testing on that?

My black horn warrior bow is usefull ( for me ) against evasion builts,  i think that offhand is for running full ap monkey and the amount of accuracy of the ofhand ""should"" be enought.

Runing TRI RCE 2x the damage is good but agains people less geared than you tha damage go down ( dont know why ). So if you find a rock the black bow is your friend ( not agains manshas).

Edited by CrazyEsP

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Posted

My black horn warrior bow is usefull ( for me ) against evasion builts,  i think that offhand is for running full ap monkey and the amount of accuracy of the ofhand ""should"" be enought.

Runing TRI RCE 2x the damage is good but agains people less geared than you tha damage go down ( dont know why ). So if you find a rock the black bow is your friend ( not agains manshas).

i dont think even a full acc build is enough to reliably hit an evasion build (for musa).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cihtzSeQ_kk

person in the video is running tri acc offhand 2x tri rce duo tree belt and tet zarka with tri bhegs, still misses half his hits most of the time.

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Posted

Could run good deeds neck and rings, at the loss of some ap. But it might be worth against full evasion.

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Posted (edited)

 

 

though i agree on nouver being useless i still cant convince myself that white horn is better if it were then it;d be very very popular in kr; however i will soon be running a black horn warrior on musa, since that apparently gives the best damage boost out of every single offhand for musa, idk about maehwa, how was your testing on that?

Definitely that doesent happen with maehwa . and  i know vids from sinister , i read both forums just in case cause sometimes ( or more ) you can find good stuff to apply to one class from the other .

But no , hit for the maewha for know just with RCE 2x goes fine so thinking about building basilisk instead of tree belt , and the ofhand .......

Well sometimes is usefull but from my experience only agains full evasion builds its an option for now.... but i shouldnt take it as a priority for an offhand

Kutum and evasion for me its a must have , and the ap and acc ... situation matters.

Edited by CrazyEsP

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Posted

Beware of non shitposting:
I think the difference is not that great between the two bows since there is a huge ap gap, the wizzards in my guild did the equal test and 1+ Special attack dmg is around 10% damage. On Tri Nouver has 39Ap (2 Gemslots + 10% resistance) compared to 34Ap(+ 1Gemslot + 1 Special Dmg). The thing here is its +Damage not +Ap so if 10% dmg can outperform 10ap then the white horn bow wins.

>why not Kutum?

So in theory: Ult White horn +18 39 AP with Crystal and 1,1 special attack multiplier (i have also read some forums about 5% damage increase) and Nouver 49 AP (2 Crystals).

1 skill 600% damage Down attack (This is theory)

White Horn = 257,4 Damage

Nouver = 294 Damage

1e look White Horn seems weak

But if you use all AP!

White Horn  200 AP = 1320 Damage 

Nouver 210 AP = 1260 Damage (~5% Weaker)

If this is true the special attack +1 let you deal a lot more damage with High end gear

(some people says 5% overall, White Horn 200 AP = 1260 Damage)

I also read some people says it only works on Crit damage.

But most people say its is for CC Damage (Down, Air, Counter)

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Posted

So in theory: Ult White horn +18 39 AP with Crystal and 1,1 special attack multiplier (i have also read some forums about 5% damage increase) and Nouver 49 AP (2 Crystals).

1 skill 600% damage Down attack (This is theory)

White Horn = 257,4 Damage

Nouver = 294 Damage

1e look White Horn seems weak

But if you use all AP!

White Horn  200 AP = 1320 Damage 

Nouver 210 AP = 1260 Damage (~5% Weaker)

If this is true the special attack +1 let you deal a lot more damage with High end gear

(some people says 5% overall, White Horn 200 AP = 1260 Damage)

I also read some people says it only works on Crit damage.

But most people say its is for CC Damage (Down, Air, Counter)

Yep more or less is the idea . in my case on crits. More information about this could be awesome .

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Posted (edited)

Nevermind.

Edited by Blighter

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Posted

i dont think even a full acc build is enough to reliably hit an evasion build (for musa).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cihtzSeQ_kk

person in the video is running tri acc offhand 2x tri rce duo tree belt and tet zarka with tri bhegs, still misses half his hits most of the time.

u guys still need to learn how to do test.. back attacks are special attacks so useless the dude who tanks doesnt use the special evasion gem (which is a must do for any build) this test isnt attendible... get a bh and u are ok vs anyone full ap monkey or evasion stackers... if u want to tank go fro white horn warrior bow

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Posted (edited)

u guys still need to learn how to do test.. back attacks are special attacks so useless the dude who tanks doesnt use the special evasion gem (which is a must do for any build)

Its an acc test,if 1 hit is missed you missed it enterely so no special atk, special eva gems are class dependant build,if you dont take a lot of special atk dmg by classdesign (maewha/musa because dashdash &super armor dmg skills) better to get the hp on the slot.

If i misunderstanging something...waiting to see your point.

Edited by dobe

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Posted

u guys still need to learn how to do test.. back attacks are special attacks so useless the dude who tanks doesnt use the special evasion gem (which is a must do for any build) this test isnt attendible... get a bh and u are ok vs anyone full ap monkey or evasion stackers... if u want to tank go fro white horn warrior bow

will ask if panpan uses evasion gems in chest, maybe that is whats affecting it.

Its an acc test,if 1 hit is missed you missed it enterely so no special atk, special eva gems are class dependant build,if you dont take a lot of special atk dmg by classdesign (maewha/musa because dashdash &super armor dmg skills) better to get the hp on the slot.

If i misunderstanging something...waiting to see your point.

he means the sorc is using special evasion gems in the chest piece, since back attack is a special attack it could be missing due to that. but your point is true i guess, i use 2x bmc cob myself.

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Posted

will ask if panpan uses evasion gems in chest, maybe that is whats affecting it.

he means the sorc is using special evasion gems in the chest piece, since back attack is a special attack it could be missing due to that. but your point is true i guess, i use 2x bmc cob myself.

I didnt try out  the special eva gems,after hearing some "feeling" feedbacks the effect maybe  a static % damage decreased on special atk received and not "actual evade" like dr mitigation style instead of evasion mitigation, so idk i need to get some research on it.

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Posted

I didnt try out  the special eva gems,after hearing some "feeling" feedbacks the effect maybe  a static % damage decreased on special atk received and not "actual evade" like dr mitigation style instead of evasion mitigation, so idk i need to get some research on it.

well i kinda figured how it works, but the only times i saw it discretely happen was when sorcs/wars did their charged atk and it missed 100% (took 0 dmg). but i rarely get knocked down/ dmged from behind in big wars; so i switched back to cobelinus.

u guys still need to learn how to do test.. back attacks are special attacks so useless the dude who tanks doesnt use the special evasion gem (which is a must do for any build) this test isnt attendible... get a bh and u are ok vs anyone full ap monkey or evasion stackers... if u want to tank go fro white horn warrior bow

apparently panpan wasnt using special evasion gems at all, just the helmet agility ones

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Posted

Its an acc test,if 1 hit is missed you missed it enterely so no special atk, special eva gems are class dependant build,if you dont take a lot of special atk dmg by classdesign (maewha/musa because dashdash &super armor dmg skills) better to get the hp on the slot.

If i misunderstanging something...waiting to see your point.

whoever go for evasion build ofc do use special attack evasion +10% x 2 on the chest.
U missunderstand the fact that in order to hit or miss first the game have to recognize the type of attack.. in your case back attack is special attack so if the one who is receive the attack use those x2 10% special evasion attacks the one who attacks will have his overall hit rate reduced by 20%. So if with those crystals ( assuming u still test with back attack way ) your hit rate is  50% then u ask to your friend to not use them u will have an increase of hit rate of 20% so 70% hit rate overall. Its very important to check if those crystals are used or not before any kind of test.

 

apparently panpan wasnt using special evasion gems at all, just the helmet agility ones

BTW do your test always with a trusted person.. never trust forums of videos or pics.. do your own shit with trusted people

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