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Posted

I'm considering switching to  DUO/TRI ogre from Sicils...

 

Thoughts? 

Ogre ring is life ...  join the AP master race! :D

Sicil is still viable though if you want to go for an evasion build.

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Posted

sicil for eva build , if your not gonna go for an eva build theres better options.

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Posted (edited)

People need to stop believing that Kutum has PVP accuracy. This has been datamined and confirmed by tests. Still a good allrounder, but it's a good bit worse then the good old Vangertz in PVP.

 

As a nub-warrior; are evasion builds worthwhile for us?

/Edit: NM my question, just found a thread about the subject.

Edited by Farbar

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Posted

People need to stop believing that Kutum has PVP accuracy. This has been datamined and confirmed by tests. Still a good allrounder, but it's a good bit worse then the good old Vangertz in PVP.

 

As a nub-warrior; are evasion builds worthwhile for us?

/Edit: NM my question, just found a thread about the subject.

Not datamined - nobody has datamined accuracy. However tests have shown that it has very little accuracy, somewhere in the range of 3-5. 

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Posted (edited)

I would also choose Vangertz over Kutum with his build especially, your argument is? 

it's a shame an old warrior like you suggest vangertz over kutum. I used to watch you when the game was just released and everyone is lost potato. You Agreed vangertz over kutum showed how lame you are trying to mis-lead people. You advice people to go vangertz when you don't use it yourself. GJ

---------

For fak same this KUTSUU who is trying to argue and advising you to go vangertz over kutum said that he only have 163-172Ap...... he argue with his whole effing heart thinking he know shit about warrior. Im sorry but this is potato warrior no experience pure air. Also said he think that vangertz is strong in pvp in a lot of scenarios............. omfg really? wake up!

A 163-172ap with vangertz think he got this class locked down.... Do you node war? Siege? Rbf? Coz I'm pretty sure you won't last 10 seconds vs me.

And yea people will be ganging me... even they agree with me that kutum is better overall specially in pvp.. but since I'm azhole, they rather swallow it and disagree with me. The dude was dumb mind aswell everyone who agreed with him lol

Edited by KingXcon

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Posted

 You advice people to go vangertz when you don't use it yourself. GJ

 

lol

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Posted

it's a shame an old warrior like you suggest vangertz over kutum. I used to watch you when the game was just released and everyone is lost potato. You Agreed vangertz over kutum showed how lame you are trying to mis-lead people. You advice people to go vangertz when you don't use it yourself. GJ

---------

For fak same this KUTSUU who is trying to argue and advising you to go vangertz over kutum said that he only have 163-172Ap...... he argue with his whole effing heart thinking he know shit about warrior. Im sorry but this is potato warrior no experience pure air. Also said he think that vangertz is strong in pvp in a lot of scenarios............. omfg really? wake up!

A 163-172ap with vangertz think he got this class locked down.... Do you node war? Siege? Rbf? Coz I'm pretty sure you won't last 10 seconds vs me.

And yea people will be ganging me... even they agree with me that kutum is better overall specially in pvp.. but since I'm azhole, they rather swallow it and disagree with me. The dude was dumb mind aswell everyone who agreed with him lol

How exactly is DR and monster dmg helping you in PvP? Vangertz has more than twice the evasion (close to 2.5x) and 4 times higher accuracy (evasion is everywhere nowadays, so its the most important PvP stat if you want to kill someone) than Kutum... Sacrifices gem slot and some AP for it... While AP definitely is the most important stat in NA, 17 (12+5) AP aint worth 15 accuracy... Like 150 HP aint worth 14 evasion... (14 evasion is 10,5% dodge rate... Or 10,5% increase in your EHP... For 150 HP to be worth the same you would need to be at max 1429 HP... I think you have a bit more...)

And now, why exactly do you think Kutum is better for PvP than Vangertz? Am asking for some arguments now, not for your crying that your idol aint uploading videos anymore and you think you are better than him...

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Posted

How exactly is DR and monster dmg helping you in PvP? Vangertz has more than twice the evasion (close to 2.5x) and 4 times higher accuracy (evasion is everywhere nowadays, so its the most important PvP stat if you want to kill someone) than Kutum... Sacrifices gem slot and some AP for it... While AP definitely is the most important stat in NA, 17 (12+5) AP aint worth 15 accuracy... Like 150 HP aint worth 14 evasion... (14 evasion is 10,5% dodge rate... Or 10,5% increase in your EHP... For 150 HP to be worth the same you would need to be at max 1429 HP... I think you have a bit more...)

And now, why exactly do you think Kutum is better for PvP than Vangertz? Am asking for some arguments now, not for your crying that your idol aint uploading videos anymore and you think you are better than him...

you forgot +1 special attack

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Posted

Vang is pretty bad  compare to kutum n nouver for pvp most of all main skill come with 25%acc so trust me nouver with one rce and 8 acc from gems best set up in my opinion i had all them shields including rosar did plenty of test with guild mate

kutum -pve

nouver-pvp

Vang-noob

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Posted

it's a shame an old warrior like you suggest vangertz over kutum. I used to watch you when the game was just released and everyone is lost potato. You Agreed vangertz over kutum showed how lame you are trying to mis-lead people. You advice people to go vangertz when you don't use it yourself. GJ

---------

For fak same this KUTSUU who is trying to argue and advising you to go vangertz over kutum said that he only have 163-172Ap...... he argue with his whole effing heart thinking he know shit about warrior. Im sorry but this is potato warrior no experience pure air. Also said he think that vangertz is strong in pvp in a lot of scenarios............. omfg really? wake up!

A 163-172ap with vangertz think he got this class locked down.... Do you node war? Siege? Rbf? Coz I'm pretty sure you won't last 10 seconds vs me.

And yea people will be ganging me... even they agree with me that kutum is better overall specially in pvp.. but since I'm azhole, they rather swallow it and disagree with me. The dude was dumb mind aswell everyone who agreed with him lol

On behalf of all classes without a grab I want to thank you for being.. like this. Please spread your word on reddit too. 

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Posted

it's a shame an old warrior like you suggest vangertz over kutum. I used to watch you when the game was just released and everyone is lost potato. You Agreed vangertz over kutum showed how lame you are trying to mis-lead people. You advice people to go vangertz when you don't use it yourself. GJ

---------

For fak same this KUTSUU who is trying to argue and advising you to go vangertz over kutum said that he only have 163-172Ap...... he argue with his whole effing heart thinking he know shit about warrior. Im sorry but this is potato warrior no experience pure air. Also said he think that vangertz is strong in pvp in a lot of scenarios............. omfg really? wake up!

A 163-172ap with vangertz think he got this class locked down.... Do you node war? Siege? Rbf? Coz I'm pretty sure you won't last 10 seconds vs me.

And yea people will be ganging me... even they agree with me that kutum is better overall specially in pvp.. but since I'm azhole, they rather swallow it and disagree with me. The dude was dumb mind aswell everyone who agreed with him lol

Smells like a player from NA, who does 1 thing, tests no other then thinks that 1 way is the milky way.

When you have done as many tests as i have done, on a playerbase that actually does more than just building AP then we can argue.

And no i do not need to prove any of my tests, so far i am the one -----ing everyone in almost any case while people complain about everything still like back in the pre-awakening days. Get on my level.

it's a shame an old warrior like you suggest vangertz over kutum. I used to watch you when the game was just released and everyone is lost potato. You Agreed vangertz over kutum showed how lame you are trying to mis-lead people. You advice people to go vangertz when you don't use it yourself. GJ

---------

For fak same this KUTSUU who is trying to argue and advising you to go vangertz over kutum said that he only have 163-172Ap...... he argue with his whole effing heart thinking he know shit about warrior. Im sorry but this is potato warrior no experience pure air. Also said he think that vangertz is strong in pvp in a lot of scenarios............. omfg really? wake up!

A 163-172ap with vangertz think he got this class locked down.... Do you node war? Siege? Rbf? Coz I'm pretty sure you won't last 10 seconds vs me.

And yea people will be ganging me... even they agree with me that kutum is better overall specially in pvp.. but since I'm azhole, they rather swallow it and disagree with me. The dude was dumb mind aswell everyone who agreed with him lol

Smells like a player from NA, who does 1 thing, tests no other then thinks that 1 way is the milky way.

When you have done as many tests as i have done, on a playerbase that actually does more than just building AP then we can argue.

And no i do not need to prove any of my tests, so far i am the one -----ing everyone in almost any case while people complain about everything still like back in the pre-awakening days. Get on my level.

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Posted

Edited.

i dont even know why i bother trying to help out folks peace

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Posted (edited)

 

vangertz suggestion is for noob and you should block people for suggesting dumb shit.  You post a perfect gear/weapon set. A kutum shield which give AP, DP and accuracy and he want to switch to vangertz in 2017? 

block me bi tch, saves future discussion times

Edited by LoneWolf

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Posted

How exactly is DR and monster dmg helping you in PvP? Vangertz has more than twice the evasion (close to 2.5x) and 4 times higher accuracy (evasion is everywhere nowadays, so its the most important PvP stat if you want to kill someone) than Kutum... Sacrifices gem slot and some AP for it... While AP definitely is the most important stat in NA, 17 (12+5) AP aint worth 15 accuracy... Like 150 HP aint worth 14 evasion... (14 evasion is 10,5% dodge rate... Or 10,5% increase in your EHP... For 150 HP to be worth the same you would need to be at max 1429 HP... I think you have a bit more...)

And now, why exactly do you think Kutum is better for PvP than Vangertz? Am asking for some arguments now, not for your crying that your idol aint uploading videos anymore and you think you are better than him...

you forgot +1 special attack

You also forgot 10% ignore resist from Kutum... Are people trolling here or something? It seems like some people hail Vangertz as the best shield in the entire game or something, and I DO get it in the EU meta since everyone seems to claim that people are stacking ridiculous amounts of evasion there. By all means I'd be using the same shield too if I was against evasion stackers

People need to understand that for PvP, it all depends on the situation and what builds you're up against that determines what is the best shield/gear in that instance. In NA, not many people, or some people are only starting to stack evasion so Vangertz accuracy is OVERKILL in most cases. You're better off just stacking more AP if you want to deal more damage. Warrior awakening also has a lot of + 12.5% - 25% accuracy modifiers so you don't even need that much accuracy to hit most people.

Also, if you ever went up against people with a lot of accuracy/AP, especially most wiz/witch, evasion builds become pretty much garbage or a big meme since you can still melt so easily, so Vangertz evasion becomes ineffective in those cases and would rather use a Kutum or even Nouver to benefit you more. 

For LethalAF's case, I don't get why people are suggesting Vangertz over Kutum when the man is clearly only low level and wants to PvE to level up in a competitive state. Kutum makes the most sense to get due to PvE damage/faster grind and is still an overall solid shield in PvP, one that I often use to wreck people with in RBF/Node wars. Glad he went for it and it's up for him to decide if he wants to change it when he's ready to PvP. 

 

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Posted

To each their own; each shield has its own uses depending on what role and which playstyle you want to lead, and/or which players you want to kill.

The situation here is because we clearly have a noob (at least to the forums if not ingame as well) telling others they are noob with complete BS from oversighting.

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Posted (edited)

You also forgot 10% ignore resist from Kutum... Are people trolling here or something? It seems like some people hail Vangertz as the best shield in the entire game or something, and I DO get it in the EU meta since everyone seems to claim that people are stacking ridiculous amounts of evasion there. By all means I'd be using the same shield too if I was against evasion stackers

People need to understand that for PvP, it all depends on the situation and what builds you're up against that determines what is the best shield/gear in that instance. In NA, not many people, or some people are only starting to stack evasion so Vangertz accuracy is OVERKILL in most cases. You're better off just stacking more AP if you want to deal more damage. Warrior awakening also has a lot of + 12.5% - 25% accuracy modifiers so you don't even need that much accuracy to hit most people.

Also, if you ever went up against people with a lot of accuracy/AP, especially most wiz/witch, evasion builds become pretty much garbage or a big meme since you can still melt so easily, so Vangertz evasion becomes ineffective in those cases and would rather use a Kutum or even Nouver to benefit you more. 

For LethalAF's case, I don't get why people are suggesting Vangertz over Kutum when the man is clearly only low level and wants to PvE to level up in a competitive state. Kutum makes the most sense to get due to PvE damage/faster grind and is still an overall solid shield in PvP, one that I often use to wreck people with in RBF/Node wars. Glad he went for it and it's up for him to decide if he wants to change it when he's ready to PvP. 

 

because :

people value 15% hitrate boost more than 5% raw damage boost

people value 24evasion and 2dr more than 9evasion and 11dr

1 more slot and 10% ignore is argument but im ok with getting 150hp less and only 20% ignore because CCing someone is still RNG and related to desync so i dont see another 10% as something big or game changing. +1 special attack even helps too. If its same as capping ats or cirt, it should be 5% boost.

Not mentioning that Vang and Sayer knot are only acc offhands with evaison which means :

Vangertz counters full ap build because 200ap with 100% hitrate is enough to take those guys down

Vangertz cam be used in evasion builds while maintaining tons of acc and good ap.

Vangertz counters evasion stackers while having evasion, because other classes with evasion offhands lacks accuracy , hitrate and ap because their evasion offhands gives 0 accuracy

Now bit of math --------------

Lets say sorc stacking evasion has :

Rhik : 30eva

Sicil : 9eva

Helmet gems : 10

Boss armor (TET ) : 132eva + 10% special attack gems

Total : 181evasion + passive evasion from sorc`s skills

Your acc :

Kutum : 5

Bhegs : 10

Kzarka : lets say roughly 50 (kzarka was tested several times and has roughly 50acc more than yuria so lets say yuria is shit and has 0acc.)

Gems : 8 (?)

Total : 73acc

Congratz on 30-40% hitrate. Considering 25% on grave dig you still have high chance of missing, even with 2x TRI Rce. But as you said, gearing meta is different here than in NA.

Just look at this musa hitting evasion sorc (sorc in vid using same gear as i listed above). That poor musa thinks that Kutum, Bhegs, Liverto, 2x TRI Rce and Duo tree belt is enough and Musa is bugged (damn i hope its bug because he is missing so much). You can clearly see he is hitting 1-3 hits out of 8 which is +-40% hitrate at max.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAptpWM3fhE

Or look on my guildmate. TET Armor, Tri Vangertz, 10 in helmet, TRI Sicil, Tri centaur.

https://streamable.com/3nqsv

No ask me again why do we use full acc builds. Lacari would be dead in 1.5sec there with his 250ap.

Edited by Chors
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Posted

because :

people value 15% hitrate boost more than 5% raw damage boost

people value 24evasion and 2dr more than 9evasion and 11dr

1 more slot and 10% ignore is argument but im ok with getting 150hp less and only 20% ignore because CCing someone is still RNG and related to desync so i dont see another 10% as something big or game changing. +1 special attack even helps too. If its same as capping ats or cirt, it should be 5% boost.

Not mentioning that Vang and Sayer knot are only acc offhands with evaison which means :

Vangertz counters full ap build because 200ap with 100% hitrate is enough to take those guys down

Vangertz cam be used in evasion builds while maintaining tons of acc and good ap.

Vangertz counters evasion stackers while having evasion, because other classes with evasion offhands lacks accuracy , hitrate and ap because their evasion offhands gives 0 accuracy

Now bit of math --------------

Lets say sorc stacking evasion has :

Rhik : 30eva

Sicil : 9eva

Helmet gems : 10

Boss armor (TET ) : 132eva + 10% special attack gems

Total : 181evasion + passive evasion from sorc`s skills

Your acc :

Kutum : 5

Bhegs : 10

Kzarka : lets say roughly 50 (kzarka was tested several times and has roughly 50acc more than yuria so lets say yuria is shit and has 0acc.)

Gems : 8 (?)

Total : 73acc

Congratz on 30-40% hitrate. Considering 25% on grave dig you still have high chance of missing, even with 2x TRI Rce. But as you said, gearing meta is different here than in NA.

Just look at this musa hitting evasion sorc (sorc in vid using same gear as i listed above). That poor musa thinks that Kutum, Bhegs, Liverto, 2x TRI Rce and Duo tree belt is enough and Musa is bugged (damn i hope its bug because he is missing so much). You can clearly see he is hitting 1-3 hits out of 8 which is +-40% hitrate at max.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAptpWM3fhE

Or look on my guildmate. TET Armor, Tri Vangertz, 10 in helmet, TRI Sicil, Tri centaur.

https://streamable.com/3nqsv

No ask me again why do we use full acc builds. Lacari would be dead in 1.5sec there with his 250ap.

No need for the full explanation and math for me. I clearly understand how accuracy and vangertz works as I use one myself in certain scenarios. What I'm saying is that I think it's just not ideal to use it for PvE and OP's current needs and also he's from NA where not many people stack evasion (or are only starting to) where he can get by with Kutum. I'd hands down be using vangertz to kill people if the meta I'm up against are full of evasion stackers like what EU server claims to have. I just wouldn't call vangertz the best shield, just the best shield in that situation/meta. 

Regarding that musa, obviously he is gonna miss a ton vs evasion sorc because:

1. Using Liverto. The accuracy in that thing is garbage compared to Kzarka. He clearly needs kzarka to make it work. I remember my TRI kzarka hitting more frequently than my TET liverto so the difference is pretty noticeable. 

2. He is using crosscut skill. From what I remember, that skill has +0% accuracy modifier. More than likely he'll miss.

It's probably not bugged at all and musa as a class just has shit accuracy modifiers and needs to stack accuracy more than the other classes when going against evasion builds. He might even be missing accuracy gems. It would help though if PA looked into it and buffed their accuracy. 

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Posted

No need for the full explanation and math for me. I clearly understand how accuracy and vangertz works

Apparently you dont, bcs he practically refuted everything you said in your previous post... :D

Even without evasion focus, you wont get 100% hitrate without several accuracy items... MH and one earring aint "several"..

Btw Liverto has only 5% less acc than Kzarka... Thats your kutum worth...

 

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Posted (edited)

I have 3 offhands, 1 equiped and 2 on my inventory.

And I use Kutum for PVE , Nouver for PVP and Vangertz vs evasion stackers. I use all of them depending the situation.

 

If you dont want to lose dp just run kutum/vang combo.

Edited by Nyeloh

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