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Karma bombing vs large non optimized rotation?

69 posts in this topic

Posted

Whats even worse is they actually believe it's a intended feature of the game lmao

Well it's part of the game and not a bug so how can you not see that it's the way Pearl Abyss wants it to be at this time?
You maybe think it's wrong but it's for sure intended to be this way.

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Posted

Serious question tho. If you're perfectly able to manage your karma and not go red, how exactly did your karma get bombed? O.o

Negative karma players aren't a common sight at high traffic grind spots to begin with. Why I call BS when people here make posts, proudly describing how they're karma bombing left and right with good results. Vast majority of players wont go negative over a random griefer seriously. They will out-dps the guy, until enough karma to poke him again. Getting PK'ed is not the same as being a successful karma bomber lol.

I also doubt 90% of grind spots griefers actually wants to be attacked or make you loose karma. No one enjoys getting killed. They would for sure prefer it if you didn't use violence and just gave them some mobs instead or walked away.

I think the term karma bombing is being used a little to loosely in this game. It's enough that someone basically breathes and he's a karma bomber, because that's what all the cool kids are saying.

Once u flag up and kill some1, even if u unflag the other person can retaliate on u, so if u want to keep ur spot u have to keep killing him again and again and again until u reach max negative

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Posted

People are either delusional or have no idea what they are talking about. Karma bombing doesn't exist? Learn to share? Alright riddle me this then. I am farming a solo rotation and I clear it so fast that I almost have to wait for spawns. Now suddenly some guy comes up and starts killing the mobs mere centimeters away from me right in front of my eyes. I tell him spot is taken and I am almost to fast for the rotation myself so could he be so kind to leave? No answer. I engage pvp and kill him. He comes back and continues killing the mobs right in front of me. This repeats once more. I want to war his guild but his guild can not be declared on. I become desperate and invite him to party even though we are to fast for the spot together. He declines. What I am supposed to do now? This guy just came up and completely shit on my life. He is "stealing" the mobs from me (yeah I know, I don't own them but cmon he comes up and kills the one I am currently killing and obviously plan to kill), ruining the rotation for me because we are now way to fast, I have to wait for respawns  and he gets at least half the mobs anyways. I can do absolutely NOTHING against this unless I want to go red (and even then, these people give so little -----s, they will just keep coming back). 

Change channel? I guess but not only does that mean I just let that guy steal the spot from me but I am not guaranteed in the slightest to find a new spot on the next channel. 

 

People saying karma bombing does not exist always pretend like everyone who complains about it, is just a pvp monkey who attacks everyone on sight, will never party, nor talk, does rotations to big for him and what annoys me the most: you guys ALWAYS think of it as the "pvpers" coming up to a spot, trying to take it from someone, killing them but they don't leave. You never consider that we could be the ones being on a spot getting attacked. 

I had it happen to me recently that a zerker came to my spot and attacked me immediately without saying anything. Well either he was trash or undergeared (or both) because despite playing zerker he manages to die to me. He immediately tears and attacks me again only to die again. This repeats 2 more times. Now he finally realized how -----ing garbage he is apparently because he stops pvping me but instead starts killing my mobs. Of course he didn't care when I pvped him, I also couldn't war him and he declined party invites. It was the most frustrating shit ever. He literally came up to me, attacked me, lost several times AND STILL takes/ruins my spot without him losing anything or me being able to do something about it. Sure I could have gone red but I had a buff running and he was a zerker so if he lands one grab, I am dead. 

Cool story. Nobody is saying that douche's don't exist in this or any other game. That guy was "Karma Bombing" and needed to die.

But what if you came to the spot to farm and that guy was there claiming the whole rotation, which he clearly could not kill fast enough to manage? What would YOU do? Ask him to tighten his loop. He refuses and says "spot taken." Flag and kill him. He comes back. You start killing your rotation, which forces him to either flag and attack you (and die) or tighten his rotation since you are killing so quickly he has no chance on the end of his loop you are now in.This only works because you are stronger than him.

Now imagine he is stronger than you and still claiming a rotation he cannot handle. You are watching his mobs spawn and stand there for 15-30 seconds before he gets to them. He tells you "spot taken." Ask him to tighten his loop and share. He says no. What do you do? You flag....and die. Now what? He is strong enough to kill you every time but he is hoarding a resource he cannot even clear efficiently. Do you start looping through efficiently and make him flag and kill you and lose karma? Or do you walk away or change servers? And if you change servers because he is stronger and you feel he therefore somehow deserves that spot (even though he cannot clear it efficiently) what do you do if the next server has a similar person there? Now you are server locked.

All I am saying is that sometimes what you see as bombing is a necessary strategy. 

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Posted

All I am saying is that sometimes what you see as bombing is a necessary strategy. 

Or get some friends to help you? This is how skirmishes and undeclared wars in other old school style games happened. Suddenly your grinding session turns into a pvp session with friends and you either make new friends or a permanent enemy it's actually quite enjoyable. People don't seem to think like that anymore though sadly. 

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Posted

Or get some friends to help you? This is how skirmishes and undeclared wars in other old school style games happened. Suddenly your grinding session turns into a pvp session with friends and you either make new friends or a permanent enemy it's actually quite enjoyable. People don't seem to think like that anymore though sadly. 

Yes- that can and does work. But many folks play solo-ish or have guildees that don't or won't PvP. Also sad. 

 

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Posted

Yes- that can and does work. But many folks play solo-ish or have guildees that don't or won't PvP. Also sad. 

 

And those are the same exact people that are in this thread right now telling people to "learn some manners" and "learn to share" funny isn't it?

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Posted

And those are the same exact people that are in this thread right now telling people to "learn some manners" and "learn to share" funny isn't it?

I do run solo often and my guild is not a PvP focused one. But I try to understand the reality of the meta and of the PvP/PvE dynamic in the game. 

I stand by my earlier statement- if you can clear what you have staked out efficiently- much respect and I will move on. But don't try to tell me you own all of Sausans when you take 5 minutes to clear three groups.

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Posted

I do run solo often and my guild is not a PvP focused one. But I try to understand the reality of the meta and of the PvP/PvE dynamic in the game. 

I stand by my earlier statement- if you can clear what you have staked out efficiently- much respect and I will move on. But don't try to tell me you own all of Sausans when you take 5 minutes to clear three groups.

Oh no I agree with you there. If you obviously can't clear your "whole" rotation then you definitely need to let some of it go. I was simply quoting you on the whole karma bombing aspect 

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Posted

Learn to share and the 99% won't karma bomb you.  You own NOTHING Jon Snow.

The trash king himself who admits to bombing using tears ladies and gentlemen. Not upset, just think you're pathetic.

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Posted

Cool story. Nobody is saying that douche's don't exist in this or any other game. That guy was "Karma Bombing" and needed to die.

But what if you came to the spot to farm and that guy was there claiming the whole rotation, which he clearly could not kill fast enough to manage? What would YOU do? Ask him to tighten his loop. He refuses and says "spot taken." Flag and kill him. He comes back. You start killing your rotation, which forces him to either flag and attack you (and die) or tighten his rotation since you are killing so quickly he has no chance on the end of his loop you are now in.This only works because you are stronger than him.

Now imagine he is stronger than you and still claiming a rotation he cannot handle. You are watching his mobs spawn and stand there for 15-30 seconds before he gets to them. He tells you "spot taken." Ask him to tighten his loop and share. He says no. What do you do? You flag....and die. Now what? He is strong enough to kill you every time but he is hoarding a resource he cannot even clear efficiently. Do you start looping through efficiently and make him flag and kill you and lose karma? Or do you walk away or change servers? And if you change servers because he is stronger and you feel he therefore somehow deserves that spot (even though he cannot clear it efficiently) what do you do if the next server has a similar person there? Now you are server locked.

All I am saying is that sometimes what you see as bombing is a necessary strategy. 

9/10 times if a second guy were to enter the spot, they would clear it to fast and thus cutting down on the efficiency for both of them. Yes if he is stronger than me I will leave, look for another spot or change channels. If this continue to happens as you inclined that I keep meeting people that I don't stand a chance against,  doesn't that mean I am on a grind spot that I am way to weak for and I should go somewhere else? Unfortunately it doesn't really work like that in bdo right now. The devs need to do what people have been telling them for months:

1. Fix grindspots scaling to difficulty/gear requirement. When I go up to level 58 and have like 80 more ap than I used to, the -----ing level 56 spot that I used to grind at should stop being the best xp and money spot for me. Short: fix sausans and pirates, make higher level grind spots like Valencia actually good. That way there will be less overpopulation and it might just fix the problem of two severely differently strong people clashing into each other.

 

2. Fix party grinding. If you are no longer badly geared and don't try to grind something like aakman you are already putting yourself at a disadvantage by grouping because you will be to fast for smaller spots together. Yet you also have to share the loot which is kinda okay I guess because you get special deals in return. But why the ever living hell is there a 50% xp punishment as well?!?!? It singlehandedly stops people from partying. I always Grinded with my friends up to 59 because I had more fun that way. But on my way to 60 I had to say sorry but I can't take the xp punishment anymore, I will grind alone from now on. And I hated it, it was boring and my friends had less fun as well. Why am I forced to solo play like this? This game really does not have enough group content already. 

 

Oh and please don't kid yourself. Even if i might kind of understand the reasons you are still abusing the broken system when karma bombing, there is no denying or justifying that. 

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Posted (edited)

9/10 times if a second guy were to enter the spot, they would clear it to fast and thus cutting down on the efficiency for both of them. Yes if he is stronger than me I will leave, look for another spot or change channels. If this continue to happens as you inclined that I keep meeting people that I don't stand a chance against,  doesn't that mean I am on a grind spot that I am way to weak for and I should go somewhere else? Unfortunately it doesn't really work like that in bdo right now. The devs need to do what people have been telling them for months:

1. Fix grindspots scaling to difficulty/gear requirement. When I go up to level 58 and have like 80 more ap than I used to, the -----ing level 56 spot that I used to grind at should stop being the best xp and money spot for me. Short: fix sausans and pirates, make higher level grind spots like Valencia actually good. That way there will be less overpopulation and it might just fix the problem of two severely differently strong people clashing into each other.

 

2. Fix party grinding. If you are no longer badly geared and don't try to grind something like aakman you are already putting yourself at a disadvantage by grouping because you will be to fast for smaller spots together. Yet you also have to share the loot which is kinda okay I guess because you get special deals in return. But why the ever living hell is there a 50% xp punishment as well?!?!? It singlehandedly stops people from partying. I always Grinded with my friends up to 59 because I had more fun that way. But on my way to 60 I had to say sorry but I can't take the xp punishment anymore, I will grind alone from now on. And I hated it, it was boring and my friends had less fun as well. Why am I forced to solo play like this? This game really does not have enough group content already. 

 

Oh and please don't kid yourself. Even if i might kind of understand the reasons you are still abusing the broken system when karma bombing, there is no denying or justifying that. 

Don't worry- I am not kidding myself.

The logic you use in the opening paragraph is easily turned on it's head, and in fact your next two points do this. As in: no, you are not at a spot that you are too weak to be at. The issue is that spots that really should be farmed by lower levels are attracting players that are too strong for them.

And your next 2 points are dead on.

I would like to see the following:

Locations for solo lower levels that give high XP for 50-55 solo players and penalize higher levels who try to grind there with way worse payouts.

Locations for Solo higher levels that give high XP and Drops for solo players and that are just too hard for lower levels.

And finally locations where if you solo grind you are penalized- group or your XP and drops suffer.

Edited by Grizabella

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Posted

The trash king himself who admits to bombing using tears ladies and gentlemen. Not upset, just think you're pathetic.

I play to annoy elitists like you!  It amuses me.

Or get some friends to help you? This is how skirmishes and undeclared wars in other old school style games happened. Suddenly your grinding session turns into a pvp session with friends and you either make new friends or a permanent enemy it's actually quite enjoyable. People don't seem to think like that anymore though sadly. 

naw....more fun to get the hate whispers.

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Posted

I'm a bit crap at remembering or recognising what constitutes a spot.

Off the top of my head I know:

Main spot/B spot/beach spot at Sausans.

Jungle/main/mountain at Pirates.

Mountain at Bashthems.

Hill at Gahaz.

Cave at Fogans.

 

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Posted

I hate people who run rotations too big for them, people assume "well this is the rotation so I need to kill all of these mobs" when they could run half the rotation more efficiently.

 

I pretty much never jump someones camp unless they are over extending when they don't have to or they are just not clearing a rotation efficiently that I can do.  

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Posted

People are either delusional or have no idea what they are talking about. Karma bombing doesn't exist? Learn to share? Alright riddle me this then. I am farming a solo rotation and I clear it so fast that I almost have to wait for spawns. Now suddenly some guy comes up and starts killing the mobs mere centimeters away from me right in front of my eyes. I tell him spot is taken and I am almost to fast for the rotation myself so could he be so kind to leave? No answer. I engage pvp and kill him. He comes back and continues killing the mobs right in front of me. This repeats once more. I want to war his guild but his guild can not be declared on. I become desperate and invite him to party even though we are to fast for the spot together. He declines. What I am supposed to do now? This guy just came up and completely shit on my life. He is "stealing" the mobs from me (yeah I know, I don't own them but cmon he comes up and kills the one I am currently killing and obviously plan to kill), ruining the rotation for me because we are now way to fast, I have to wait for respawns  and he gets at least half the mobs anyways. I can do absolutely NOTHING against this unless I want to go red (and even then, these people give so little -----s, they will just keep coming back). 

Change channel? I guess but not only does that mean I just let that guy steal the spot from me but I am not guaranteed in the slightest to find a new spot on the next channel. 

 

People saying karma bombing does not exist always pretend like everyone who complains about it, is just a pvp monkey who attacks everyone on sight, will never party, nor talk, does rotations to big for him and what annoys me the most: you guys ALWAYS think of it as the "pvpers" coming up to a spot, trying to take it from someone, killing them but they don't leave. You never consider that we could be the ones being on a spot getting attacked. 

I had it happen to me recently that a zerker came to my spot and attacked me immediately without saying anything. Well either he was trash or undergeared (or both) because despite playing zerker he manages to die to me. He immediately tears and attacks me again only to die again. This repeats 2 more times. Now he finally realized how -----ing garbage he is apparently because he stops pvping me but instead starts killing my mobs. Of course he didn't care when I pvped him, I also couldn't war him and he declined party invites. It was the most frustrating shit ever. He literally came up to me, attacked me, lost several times AND STILL takes/ruins my spot without him losing anything or me being able to do something about it. Sure I could have gone red but I had a buff running and he was a zerker so if he lands one grab, I am dead. 

Anyone who denies the existence of karma bombing, doesn't see it as an issue, or thinks that people "karmabomb" themselves needs to read this ^comment for a reality check. Pretty much sums up the most common cases of karma bombing in which there really are no alternatives (like he said, cc-ing is usually not an option as you'll likely end up cc-ing into someone elses occupied spot). There's no denying that there are asshole people who may deserve to be karma-bombed, but most reasonable people experience what is outlined in this post above.  The worst karma bombers i face are those who are salty that they lost/failed in trying to steal my spot/mobs or kill me and are just butthurt so they come back to punish me cause they cant handle losing. Karmabombing in most cases is disrespectful. And by most cases im talking about when you fight someone for a spot, lose, and cant respect the other person thats better than you. It should be common sense and a general rule that the better player should be able to continue in that rotation when its clear that you cant beat them AND they aren't clearing inefficiently for that spot. that being said, this must be taken with grain of salt as there will always be circumstances where maybe someone deserves to be karmabombed such as the instance mentioned above where dudes be tryna claim a spot and their dumbass cant even handle the full rotation... or where lvl 58s are pking lvl 53s at elrics/sausons. But even then.. the lower level/weaker player should cc or go to a smaller rotation as this game will always be a fight for the most profitable resources (rotations).

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Posted

Because Karma Bombing doesn't really exist.

It's a made up term to describe the situation.

 

It's actually the same thing as:

I PK'D THEM AND THEY CAME BACK

#players_returning_to_their_hunting_spot_after_death_is_part_of_the_game

#CASE_CLOSED

Agree

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Posted

So much logic

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Posted

And crap like this is why people need to be sent to town when they die in pvp. You wanna karma bomb someone enjoy the 5-10 min walk each time you die then. 

I get your anger, and I livery thepermperma red life because of it, but his quote is about people not efficiently grinding. If you cannot clear the spot you are at to an efficient rotation then you need to move to a lower set of move or a smaller rotation.

now having said that I wI'll cano the fuc out of karma bombers and do it for hours leaving a grind spot blank just to kill them for hours. I am a PKer and the only reward I need for going red is killing the carebears, it brings me maximum joy.

Nahta Ayra NA Guild <Cynical>

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Posted

Gimmie Some of your gear and exp so I can do  that as well :P

I get your anger, and I livery thepermperma red life because of it, but his quote is about people not efficiently grinding. If you cannot clear the spot you are at to an efficient rotation then you need to move to a lower set of move or a smaller rotation.

now having said that I wI'll cano the fuc out of karma bombers and do it for hours leaving a grind spot blank just to kill them for hours. I am a PKer and the only reward I need for going red is killing the carebears, it brings me maximum joy.

Nahta Ayra NA Guild <Cynical>

give me Some of your gear and a few levels so I can do that as well :P guess you are mostly in desert area or?

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