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DR > Evasion for sieges after latest patch? Tested hybrid DR build myself

23 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

So I have been curious about the new changes to damage reduction (DR, not mistaken by DP or evasion) and how effective it really is with the changes for sieges and nodewars.

Up until now I have mainly been using an evasion build with TRI centaur belt, TET Vangertz shield (evasion and accuracy) and Tri Sicil necklace + evasion gems.

This setup has worked out quite good in small scale, but I found the major flaw of it to be that evasion is not that great in large fights and sieges, since this is where classes like wizards, witches and DK's are shooting their AOEs with high +accuracy modifiers already, which can wreck evasion builds rather quickly due to their lower HP and lower DR.

Because of this I became more interested in looking into DR as a possible stat to replace evasion for increased survival in sieges, and I managed to buy enough cadry rings before they were taken off the market to make 2x TRI cadry rings (28 DR combined) to test with.

I also changed my evasion gems into HP gems, since this is more useful in combination with DR as these stats scale well with each other for more survival.

 

After testing my new hybrid DR Gear build in 2 different node wars this week I found this to be a lot more tanky compared to my previous evasion build for node/sieges, even if evasion is still very good in small scale pvp or 1v1.

I was able to reach above 4500 HP buffed with the DR hybrid build, and still maintain 206 AP, and I am suprised why not more people have talked about this DR hybrid build before?

All I read around here is evasion, evasion. Do these ppl actually test if evasion is good for sieges? 

Because to me it seems buffed DR is alot stronger in sieges due to the wizards, witches and dks that have high accuracy modifiers, and where DR becomes better compared to evasion builds where you need to sacrifice HP gems as well.

 

Please update this with your own testing experience, as I am interested in more input to optimize the siege build.

Edited by Mentos

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Posted

Tamer- I use 2 evasion gems in my helmet (full tri boss gear + tri kutum) + 2 DR gems in my chest and they make a huge difference. Instead of focusing JUST on evasion, I found that using evasion + DR keeps me alive a lot longer for just the reasons you outlined- some classes have 100% accuracy on skills.

290 base dp isn't that high compared to those with dp builds or even full TET, but I survived quite a few fights and got kills in recent fights with other strong guilds this week. Seems to be working quite well.

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Posted

once they know ur running DR instead of eva they'd just swap their acc offhand to a Nouver and ur toast

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Posted

I haven't lost any evasion by using DR gems in my chest armor

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Posted

Since the patch i've seen less reason to even run DP accessories because survivability seems to have gone up at least 30% it feels like. Utilizing both DR and Evasion with how armour scales as well as how our DP buffs seem to work, works really well i think, instead of abandoning one (although you can't exactly abandon DR lol).

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Posted (edited)

once they know ur running DR instead of eva they'd just swap their acc offhand to a Nouver and ur toast

Not entirely true, there's so many players running with nouver as it is, especially a lot of wizards and witches use nouver because of their high % accuracy on skills.

You also see a lot of other classes who use nouver with 2x RCE for the accuracy + AP, yet I found DR hybrid build to defend better against these players than full evasion build.

When I tested DR hybrid build vs evasion build against lvl 60 wizard with nouver, DR was still clearly better.

I also compared my evasion build to DR hybrid build against classes with less accuracy modifiers (lvl 60 sorc and lvl 60 maewha), and DR is still good there, even if they use nouver.

So therefore I still wonder why more ppl haven't talked more about this hybrid DR build yet, it seems very good for sieges where you need to survive all the AOE coming from high base accuracy classes who slice through any evasion build that also have to sacrifice HP gems

Edited by Mentos

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Posted

So therefore I still wonder why more ppl haven't talked about this hybrid DR build yet

Havent talked where? Dude , many people run hybrids or dp builds. You didnt invented hot water. DP works, even better after patch we got.

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Posted

You changed 20 evasion for 50 DR and you are surprised its more tanky? O_O

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Posted

Havent talked where? Dude , many people run hybrids or dp builds. You didnt invented hot water. DP works, even better after patch we got.

"DP" builds? Even if you just state it simply as "DP" builds or "DP works", I'm sure you know that what matters is what the DP actually consist of, either evasion or DR.

Most people just talk about evasion builds, but it's been a lot of silence with DR builds on this forum even after the change. Where do I claim to have invented anything?

DR seems very good in sieges now because it doesn't get shrekt by accuracy players/classes the same way evasion builds does, and worked better then I expected, and therefore I'm suprised why there haven't been more topics about this yet. 

Because like I said, I used evasion hybrid build myself for a while, but DR have mostly been talked down on and ppl originally had the idea that evasion was better, but now it looks different and pure DR actually stands out as useful in big fights.

 

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Posted

You changed 20 evasion for 50 DR and you are surprised its more tanky? O_O

How do you do math?

You think TRI centaur, TRI sicil and TET vangertz, 2x 5evasion head gems, 2x evasion chest gems only gives 20 evasion combined?

I swap centaur and sicil out for pure AP pieces, my TET vangertz out for TET kutum, my evasion gems swapped to HP gems, and to compensate for AP belt/neck, I use 2x TRI cadry rings for the pure DR here instead like in the link in original post.

This gave me a lot more tankiness compared to my evasion build, and also higher dmg output.

Would be nice if others tested it out and provided more feedback as well.

Yes that is a nice setup too, but personally I need bhegs for the accuracy and boss set bonus.

I would like to try get a second tri tungrade for the 10% BS bonus and extra AP, or perhaps even swap both earrings out for 2x TRI blue whale earrings for the extra 200 HP which scales really well with DR (not evasion).

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Posted

No idea what this guys stats are but heres a video of a warrior with what i assume is a full DP build. 

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Posted

How do you do math?

You think TRI centaur, TRI sicil and TET vangertz, 2x 5evasion head gems, 2x evasion chest gems only gives 20 evasion combined?

I swap centaur and sicil out for pure AP pieces, my TET vangertz out for TET kutum, my evasion gems swapped to HP gems, and to compensate for AP belt/neck, I use 2x TRI cadry rings for the pure DR here instead like in the link in original post.

This gave me a lot more tankiness compared to my evasion build, and also higher dmg output.

Would be nice if others tested it out and provided more feedback as well.

DR + HP hybrid build is also what i use. 
so,,, yeah totally works great. 

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Posted

How do you do math?

You think TRI centaur, TRI sicil and TET vangertz, 2x 5evasion head gems, 2x evasion chest gems only gives 20 evasion combined?

I swap centaur and sicil out for pure AP pieces, my TET vangertz out for TET kutum, my evasion gems swapped to HP gems, and to compensate for AP belt/neck, I use 2x TRI cadry rings for the pure DR here instead like in the link in original post.

This gave me a lot more tankiness compared to my evasion build, and also higher dmg output.

Would be nice if others tested it out and provided more feedback as well.

Would be nice linkin build before and after... till i finish sentence i dont remember which items you are talking about...

Chest is special evasion...

-(14+9+(24-10)+10) = -47 evasion difference

AP : 9+14+12-28 = +3 AP difference

+300 HP

-15 accuracy

+38 DR

So you changed 47 evasion and 15 accuracy for 300 HP, 38 DR and 3 AP... That you survive more is hard to believe, but claiming you even do more dmg on top of that smells like bullshit... I call placebo...

 

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Posted (edited)

snip

Doing some math....

 >Your Build< 
204/206/333
141 evasion (including helm gems)
198 DR (including chest gems)
+1040 health
+23 accuracy (including 10 from bhegs and gems)


>This Build< 
200/202/339

140 evasion (including helm gems)
209 DR (including chest gems + Ultimate upgrade DR)
+1050 health 
+27 accuracy (including gems)


Just putting that out there. =)

Edited by xcandykitten

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Posted (edited)

Doing some math....
 >Your Build< 
204/206/333 +4AP
141 evasion (including helm gems) +1
198 DR (including chest gems) -7
+1040 health 
+30 accuracy (including 15 from TET bhegs and gems) +3-7

+50 WP from Cadry rings
+Black spirit 10% from tungrade earring

+Full boss armor set bonus (1 atk/cast speed + 200 stamina)

>This Build< 
200/202/339 -4 AP
140 evasion (including helm gems)
205 DR (including chest gems + Ultimate upgrade DR (This +2 ultimate bonus is already included in the DP number on item) +7
+1050 health (with heve bonus)
+27 (22?) accuracy (including gems and including buggy ancient accuracy set bonus (unless they changed it recently?) -3-7
 

I tested the 5 accuracy set bonus of ancient set a few months back when I used it, and for me the ancient bonus did not work at all (or work different similar to serendia food?), so I'm not sure if the accuracy on that bonus can count as "normal" accuracy or if they changed it. As for gems, you forgot to add a 2nd accuracy one for me (or you just didnt mention the 2 crit rating stat, I dont know).

The +2 ultimate bonus on heve is already counted in the actual DP number on the item.

Stating that bhegs have 10 accuracy is 100% guessing at this point, from my own testing bheg gloves was comparable to having 15 accuracy on jewelry compared to TET bhegs after 350 hits on each. TET bhegs were significantly better than 10 accuracy on jewelry.

For me Bhegs is crucial, because eventually I want to not rely on RCE for accuracy, and rather swap this for either blue whale earring with 100 more HP or another tungrade earrings for the BSR bonus when the kamasylve accuracy gems comes.

Would be nice linkin build before and after... till i finish sentence i dont remember which items you are talking about...

Chest is special evasion...

-(14+9+(24-10)+10) = -47 evasion difference

AP : 9+14+12-28 = +3 AP difference (no, it is a 7 AP sheet + 5 AP crystal = +12 AP difference)

+300 HP (no, it is a +490 HP difference with swapped gems)

-15 accuracy

+38 DR

So you changed 47 evasion and 15 accuracy for 300 HP (actually +490 HP), 38 DR and 3 AP (actually +12 AP)... That you survive more is hard to believe, but claiming you even do more dmg on top of that smells like bullshit... I call placebo...

The difference is 7 AP on sheet + an extra 5 AP from the 2nd awakened gem crystal, yes I do more damage with my DR hybrid build (7 + 5 = +12 AP more is not that small)

This is my evasion build with the gear I have available: Evasion gear

This is my hybrid DR build with the gear I have available DR hybrid build

And so far I like my DR hybrid build more in sieges, it feels a lot more tanky, deals slightly more dmg and also works better against siege structures with the increased HP.

Edited by Mentos

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Posted (edited)

snip

Can you prove that the +2 DR on ultimate heve is already shown as DP?
No evidence that I've saw supports that. When you go ultimate you gain 5dp  not 2.
In cases where the stated stats are what the initial dp is (example the +0 vangertz 5 dp is stated as 3 ev 2 DR) it states both.
Ultimate only states 2 DR extra. that wouldn't explain the additional 3 DP. 
So you're saying going from green to yellow you gain 2 DR and 3 Eva?
Evidence in game shows that if that were true, it would say "-Item Effect: Damage Reduction +2, Evasion +3" But it doesn't.
So i'd love if you could back that up a little bit.

You don't need full boss set as a warrior, change the crit gem (warrior doesn't need any crit) to a viper, you stay with 5 AS and gain 2 accuracy.
200 stamina is really only 100 stamina, you gain 100 from 2x RCR. i think 100 stam isn't worth mentioning.
Same goes with 10% BS energy.^

very detailed testing shows that bheg gives roughly 10 accuracy, and doesn't gain anymore after +15.
Here is some testing on DUO bhegs for example
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H4M9vXw3xV0NwLO1xvqDMu-KVRY9CWLY5dccHt0oDOQ/edit
There's much more than that as proof though.

My personal testing showed that the acc on ancient set worked just fine.  Oh well. 

Running whale instead of RCE isn't a bad idea at all. I can concede to that.


Those are my thoughts. Good luck.

Edited by xcandykitten

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Posted

I tested the 5 accuracy set bonus of ancient set a few months back when I used it, and for me the ancient bonus did not work at all (or work different similar to serendia food?), so I'm not sure if the accuracy on that bonus can count as "normal" accuracy or if they changed it. As for gems, you forgot to add a 2nd accuracy one for me (or you just didnt mention the 2 crit rating stat, I dont know).

The +2 ultimate bonus on heve is already counted in the actual DP number on the item.

Stating that bhegs have 10 accuracy is 100% guessing at this point, from my own testing bheg gloves was comparable to having 15 accuracy on jewelry compared to TET bhegs after 350 hits on each. TET bhegs were significantly better than 10 accuracy on jewelry.

For me Bhegs is crucial, because eventually I want to not rely on RCE for accuracy, and rather swap this for either blue whale earring with 100 more HP or another tungrade earrings for the BSR bonus when the kamasylve accuracy gems comes.

The difference is 7 AP on sheet + an extra 5 AP from the 2nd awakened gem crystal, yes I do more damage with my DR hybrid build (7 + 5 = +12 AP more is not that small)

This is my evasion build with the gear I have available: Evasion gear

This is my hybrid DR build with the gear I have available DR hybrid build

And so far I like my DR hybrid build more in sieges, it feels a lot more tanky, deals slightly more dmg and also works better against siege structures with the increased HP.

Thats more believable... Still surprising though... Btw 4 evasion in head gems and 4 DR in chest was missing as well... Kutum bein the high GS offhand... It can be.. You practically bruteforced the effectivness with end tier gear and sockets (those gems are biggest difference IMO, not accesories)...

I'd guess Accesories from first and gems from second would work as well...

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Posted

LOL.

 

It's the guy who bought out all the crappy CADRY rings, now trying to convince you to buy crappy rings for a higher price.

 

DR is utter trash.

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Posted

I've been pvping with evasion now for a few months on my warrior so i have a good idea of how much damage i should be taking, I tried a bit of extra DR with what i had available (switched out tri vangertz for tri kutum/x2 tri rcr) and felt less tanky instantly (this was just random testing in an rbf). I don't really feel like wasting any resources on building any DR accessories as it still feels pretty crap. The special attack damage on vangertz feels like it makes up a lot for the missing AP as well.

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No idea what this guys stats are but heres a video of a warrior with what i assume is a full DP build. 

DP build just stupidly OP and devs are still gonna buff DP... sigh

If ur 250/280 fighting against another 250/280 sure both melt with 2 skills that's fine. Now WTF we gonna do against full DP idiots we can't stop them now.

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Posted

So I have been curious about the new changes to damage reduction (DR, not mistaken by DP or evasion) and how effective it really is with the changes for sieges and nodewars.

Up until now I have mainly been using an evasion build with TRI centaur belt, TET Vangertz shield (evasion and accuracy) and Tri Sicil necklace + evasion gems.

This setup has worked out quite good in small scale, but I found the major flaw of it to be that evasion is not that great in large fights and sieges, since this is where classes like wizards, witches and DK's are shooting their AOEs with high +accuracy modifiers already, which can wreck evasion builds rather quickly due to their lower HP and lower DR.

Because of this I became more interested in looking into DR as a possible stat to replace evasion for increased survival in sieges, and I managed to buy enough cadry rings before they were taken off the market to make 2x TRI cadry rings (28 DR combined) to test with.

I also changed my evasion gems into HP gems, since this is more useful in combination with DR as these stats scale well with each other for more survival.

 

After testing my new hybrid DR Gear build in 2 different node wars this week I found this to be a lot more tanky compared to my previous evasion build for node/sieges, even if evasion is still very good in small scale pvp or 1v1.

I was able to reach above 4500 HP buffed with the DR hybrid build, and still maintain 206 AP, and I am suprised why not more people have talked about this DR hybrid build before?

All I read around here is evasion, evasion. Do these ppl actually test if evasion is good for sieges? 

Because to me it seems buffed DR is alot stronger in sieges due to the wizards, witches and dks that have high accuracy modifiers, and where DR becomes better compared to evasion builds where you need to sacrifice HP gems as well.

 

Please update this with your own testing experience, as I am interested in more input to optimize the siege build.

way back before mediah you already had a lot of DR build, every defensive warrior i know runs with a DR build with kite shield.

gg wp you cant die

http://bdoplanner.com/save/[[5],[11013,19,[-15106,-15106]],[11017,19,[15610,15610]],[11016,19,[-15106,-15106]],[11015,19,[15218,15218]],[[12032,3],[12032,3]],[[11926,3],[11817,3]],[12229,3],[11607,3],[10010,18,[15201,15632]],[14702,19],[10117,19,[15627,-1]],[45252],[-1,[-1]],[-1],[-1],[-1],[-1]]

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Posted

Boss gear = more evasion, kutum = hybrid, centaurs = evasion -----> "DR"

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