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I'd like to get to PVP, but you've put it behind the biggest PVE grindwall ever constructed.

295 posts in this topic

Posted

@Leuphe bad job

Good argument bruh, you really got me there. You're almost as bad as the OP!

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Posted

your post is so lol........... i don't even know what i could comment.

it is so ridiculous.

I think you played to much dead gw2 game.

 

gw 2 has more population than bdo ...

 

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Posted (edited)

-pointless garbage-

tl;dr. I don't really care anymore because you're pulling a plunge. ;)

And also making a lot of awfully big assumptions there, ain't ya? Many of my posts were fairly on topic or humorous of the OP's wording so I don't think I'm exactly out of the loop here.

Edited by Leuphe

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Posted

And also making a lot of awfully big assumptions there, ain't ya?

Like what?

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Posted (edited)

The only thing people disliked about OP's posts was that they kept on and on about how their opinion was the right opinion, but any time someone said they disagreed they got some circular garbage about "well I'm still not wrong and you can't prove otherwise".

That's why this junk has gone on for this long. 

 

Edited by Cardiel
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Posted (edited)

The only thing people disliked about OP's posts was that they kept on and on about how their opinion was the right opinion, but any time someone said they disagreed they got some circular garbage about "well I'm still not wrong and you can't prove otherwise".

That's why this junk has gone on for this long.

Because they actually misunderstood what OP wanted and argued against something else entirely - easy progression, which has no relevance to what OP was actually talking about.

Edited by thdsm

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Posted (edited)

Because they actually misunderstood what OP wanted and argued about something else entirely - easy progression, which has no relevance to what OP was actually talking about.

Maybe some did, but not all. I get that you can't possibly understand why limiting playstyles in a game would be a good thing but to some, it is. 

I ain't getting into it again though. Take that for what you will. 

Edited by Cardiel

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Posted

Like what?

Not interested Plunge JR

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Posted

I would really like to get to the pvp part of this game, but for some reason they feel it necessary to subject me to endless mind-numbing challenge-less grind.

grind for 2 weeks then lifeskill

Let me explain to you how to design pvp properly.

subjective/you're wrong

People want pvp, and you're not giving it to them; they will take their money elsewhere, and you'll kill your game off before you know it when the next shinier MMO with better thought out mechanics comes around the corner...

if you're not disciplined enough to do pve for 2 weeks before going to lifeskill then you won't be good at pvp because pvping means besting an actual human being that's also investing time and effort and thought and resource and is dedicated and such,

 

i bet that if i gave you my gear and i went to pvp you with worse gear i'd still win 

 

and the gear wall isnt even that high, there are many classes that can 1combo people even with lower gear and you probably don't even understand how the stats work but this isn't the game's fault - its your fault 

 

also the main complaint about bdo is desync above everything else but you didn't even mention that 

 

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Posted

 

i bet that if i gave you my gear and i went to pvp you with worse gear i'd still win

 

shots fired

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Posted

11 pages of blah blah, just give pvpers arena with fixed stats where they can do proper pvp and the rest of you can still fight boring pirates or sausans day after day for the rest of your life if you really want xD much skill involved wow

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Posted

Maybe some did, but not all. I get that you can't possibly understand why limiting playstyles in a game would be a good thing but to some, it is. 

I ain't getting into it again though. Take that for what you will. 

See, if this was where we started, we might have gotten somewhere. I would've said that playstyles are naturally limited in all games, but IMO one shouldn't limit them in a way that forces players to go through a process many would find boring or unengaging to get to the desirable or fun parts.

Not interested Plunge JR

So you talk big but aren't even smart enough to reply to a two-word post? Go back to your sausage rotation, just be careful to not get killed by that Sausan Tough Guy, because with the level of intellect you've been showing it wouldn't surprise me at all if you did.

grind for 2 weeks then lifeskill

subjective/you're wrong

if you're not disciplined enough to do pve for 2 weeks before going to lifeskill then you won't be good at pvp because pvping means besting an actual human being that's also investing time and effort and thought and resource and is dedicated and such,

i bet that if i gave you my gear and i went to pvp you with worse gear i'd still win

and the gear wall isnt even that high, there are many classes that can 1combo people even with lower gear and you probably don't even understand how the stats work but this isn't the game's fault - its your fault

also the main complaint about bdo is desync above everything else but you didn't even mention that

Did you even read anything below the title? Most of your post is completely offtopic and well.. irrelevant. Then:

> subjective/you're wrong

yeah, why is that? Elaborate.

Also, learn to format, so that others won't have to do it for you.

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Posted

See, if this was where we started, we might have gotten somewhere. I would've said that playstyles are naturally limited in all games, but IMO one shouldn't limit them in a way that forces players to go through a process many would find boring or unengaging to get to the desirable or fun parts.

I did.

And no, that's essentially saying "I understand limiting playstyles, but surely not limiting it to things I personally find boring." Many people also find the work that comes with a game that has this amount of grind fun, so they went to games that offered it. Games like BDO.

Not every game needs to cater to every player.  

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Posted

I do agree that there's too much emphasis on gear when it comes to PvP as opposed to skill.  However, that's not exclusive to Eastern nor Western MMOs... it's just how most MMOs are in general.   As far as some comments that this was intended for an Eastern audience... BDO has something for everyone no matter where you are from in the world which is something most MMOs don't get to touch base on.

Okay continue arguing, I just got some new popcorn.

There is an issue with this.

Player A: Has played the game for 5 years taking only short breaks and playing nearly full time all those years.

Player B: Is new and has been playing for 2 months, but is very skilled in PVP and had a clan help him progress quickly.

 

Should player A have a major advantage?  After all they invested 5 years into the game vs only 2 months?

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Posted (edited)

I did.

And no, that's essentially saying "I understand limiting playstyles, but surely not limiting it to things I personally find boring." Many people also find the work that comes with a game that has this amount of grind fun, so they went to games that offered it. Games like BDO.

Not every game needs to cater to every player.  

First of all, a lot of people find the grind boring, not just me personally. Just observing the amount of "the grind sucks"-themed threads on this forums will tell you this. And then, I will straight up disagree and claim that in my opinion extremely few people actually find the grind fun. Many who say they think it is fun also indirectly deny it by referring to it as "hard work" or "effort". These are not the words you use to describe something that is objectively easy and also fun and engaging.

Also, do I need to say again that nobody here suggested anything that would devalue or reduce any of the hard work required to progress? I feel like I've said it a dozen times already and people still talk like the core of the whole debate is wanting easy level 65 and PEN gear. It is not.

The game needs to cater to a large enough audience that will sustain it. At the moment BDO has a healthy playerbase, but I agree with OP's speculation that a good portion of this playerbase is staying only because of certain specific qualities of the game, such as visuals and combat mechanics, and don't like many other aspects of it. If something that does PvP right, while looking as good as BDO appears at some point, a mass exodus can really happen.

Edited by thdsm

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Posted (edited)

First of all, a lot of people find the grind boring, not just me personally. Just observing the amount of "the grind sucks"-themed threads on this forums will tell you this. And then, I will straight up disagree and claim that in my opinion extremely few people actually find the grind fun. Many who say they think it is fun also indirectly deny it by referring to it as "hard work" or "effort". These are not the words you use to describe something that is objectively easy and also fun and engaging.

Also, do I need to say again that nobody here suggested anything that would devalue or reduce any of the hard work required to progress? I feel like I've said it a dozen times already and people still talk like the core of the whole debate is wanting easy level 65 and PEN gear. It is not.

The game needs to cater to a large enough audience that will sustain it. At the moment BDO has a healthy playerbase, but I agree with OP's speculation that a good portion of this playerbase is staying only because of certain specific qualities of the game, such as visuals and combat mechanics, and don't like many other aspects of it. If something that does PvP right, while looking as good as BDO appears at some point, a mass exodus can really happen.

Like, I'm repeating myself at this point over and over but you're entirely pushing your opinion and throwing around things you don't know in an effort to give weight to an issue that amounts to you wanting something and other people not wanting it.

As far as hard work and effort not being fun, I just...I mean there's no use in arguing. I completely and utterly disagree and there's people who are telling you that hard work, effort, etc. is fun to them because they enjoy the feeling overcoming that hard work and getting something out of it. You're saying they can't think that because you don't think anything that's hard work could possibly be fun unless you're a masochist or something which is utterly ridiculous.

Again, you say it won't devalue someone else's hard work but it would. It absolutely would. People have tried numerous ways of explaining this to you, my Chutes and Ladders example is one thing.

Literally everything you're saying is you attempting to back up your views by saying "a lot of people would prefer this" when there's a lot of people in this thread disagreeing with you.

I genuinely do not know how else to tell you to pull your blinders off and if all you're going to do is continue to say "Well dirt can't be as good as cake" then there's clearly nothing left for me to say.

Edited by Cardiel

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Posted

Like, I'm repeating myself at this point over and over but you're entirely pushing your opinion and throwing around things you don't know in an effort to give weight to an issue that amounts to you wanting something and other people not wanting it.

As far as hard work and effort not being fun, I just...I mean there's no use in arguing. I completely and utterly disagree and there's people who are telling you that hard work, effort, etc. is fun to them because they enjoy the feeling overcoming that hard work and getting something out of it. You're saying they can't think that because you don't think anything that's hard work could possibly be fun unless you're a masochist or something which is utterly ridiculous.

Again, you say it won't devalue someone else's hard work but it would. It absolutely would. People have tried numerous ways of explaining this to you, my Chutes and Ladders example is one thing.

Literally everything you're saying is you attempting to back up your views by saying "a lot of people would prefer this" when there's a lot of people in this thread disagreeing with you.

I genuinely do not know how else to tell you to pull your blinders off.

You insist on misunderstanding me lol. Work can very much be fun, but to also be hard it actually needs to be hard (difficult, challenging etc). Then it is hard work that is fun. BDO PVE grind is objectively, without any argument easy for the average person. It also happens to be very repetitive. So it is not actually hard work at all, and requires no real effort. But a lot of people refer to it as such, why? Because it feels like hard work. Why is that? Well, because it is long and also, because summoning willpower to force yourself to do something that is tedious requires effort.

Now if you actually find PVE grind mechanically difficult, then the above doesn't apply to you, but know that you are in the minority.

I also explained pretty thoroughly I hope that your Chutes and Ladders example was incomplete and could in fact be used to support OP's argument. Go read that post again.

> Literally everything you're saying is you attempting to back up your views by saying "a lot of people would prefer this" when there's a lot of people in this thread disagreeing with you.

How is that wrong to mention that many others would prefer this? And there will always be people disagreeing, for various reasons but for many it is just because they resist change.

Look, if we strip the argument down to its core, what OP and the likeminded are proposing is: if certain players want to play BDO for the sake of PVP, then let them progress by doing PVP in some form. Those opposed say "nah, the only way to progress should be doing tasks that have little to nothing to do with PVP, because reasons". Like, I could come up with all sorts of utterly ridiculous RL analogies to this claim, how about you want to drive a car, but to even qualify to apply for a license you have to clean a toilet 3000 times. How would you like that?

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Posted (edited)

You insist on misunderstanding me lol. Work can very much be fun, but to also be hard it actually needs to be hard (difficult, challenging etc). Then it is hard work that is fun. BDO PVE grind is objectively, without any argument easy for the average person. It also happens to be very repetitive. So it is not actually hard work at all, and requires no real effort. But a lot of people refer to it as such, why? Because it feels like hard work. Why is that? Well, because it is long and also, because summoning willpower to force yourself to do something that is tedious requires effort.

Now if you actually find PVE grind mechanically difficult, then the above doesn't apply to you, but know that you are in the minority.

I also explained pretty thoroughly I hope that your Chutes and Ladders example was incomplete and could in fact be used to support OP's argument. Go read that post again.

> Literally everything you're saying is you attempting to back up your views by saying "a lot of people would prefer this" when there's a lot of people in this thread disagreeing with you.

How is that wrong to mention that many others would prefer this? And there will always be people disagreeing, for various reasons but for many it is just because they resist change.

Look, if we strip the argument down to its core, what OP and the likeminded are proposing is: if certain players want to play BDO for the sake of PVP, then let them progress by doing PVP in some form. Those opposed say "nah, the only way to progress should be doing tasks that have little to nothing to do with PVP, because reasons". Like, I could come up with all sorts of utterly ridiculous RL analogies to this claim, how about you want to drive a car, but to even qualify to apply for a license you have to clean a toilet 3000 times. How would you like that?

I wanted to reply to this because it gave me a chuckle. ,I am absolutely fine with that. 3 thousand toilets,Think of it this way,Soo many lazy 15 year olds out there that would refuse and not do it for a few years.. Then When getting a license they would appreciate their hard work they had to invest into it. And there would be less 15 year olds on the road.. Older you get the more your mind matures. Less 15 year olds on the road operating thousands of pounds of rolling steel / carbon fiber is fine with me.. You act as if PVP and PVE are totally different things,to use it for this silly analogy But in pvp you use the same skill set and you attack with the same skill set albeit in a different combination.,You do not use the same skill set scrubbing toilets to drive a car. Don't quit your day job. Analogies ain't your thangg my man. Leave that to Cardiel lol

Edited by Freeway

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Posted

You insist on misunderstanding me lol. Work can very much be fun, but to also be hard it actually needs to be hard (difficult, challenging etc). Then it is hard work that is fun. BDO PVE grind is objectively, without any argument easy for the average person. It also happens to be very repetitive. So it is not actually hard work at all, and requires no real effort. But a lot of people refer to it as such, why? Because it feels like hard work. Why is that? Well, because it is long and also, because summoning willpower to force yourself to do something that is tedious requires effort.

Now if you actually find PVE grind mechanically difficult, then the above doesn't apply to you, but know that you are in the minority.

I also explained pretty thoroughly I hope that your Chutes and Ladders example was incomplete and could in fact be used to support OP's argument. Go read that post again.

> Literally everything you're saying is you attempting to back up your views by saying "a lot of people would prefer this" when there's a lot of people in this thread disagreeing with you.

How is that wrong to mention that many others would prefer this? And there will always be people disagreeing, for various reasons but for many it is just because they resist change.

Look, if we strip the argument down to its core, what OP and the likeminded are proposing is: if certain players want to play BDO for the sake of PVP, then let them progress by doing PVP in some form. Those opposed say "nah, the only way to progress should be doing tasks that have little to nothing to do with PVP, because reasons". Like, I could come up with all sorts of utterly ridiculous RL analogies to this claim, how about you want to drive a car, but to even qualify to apply for a license you have to clean a toilet 3000 times. How would you like that?

What about the meaningless activity of farming a grind spot and a war dec pops? Progressive PVP grind I say <3

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Posted

Tbh I'm tired of repeating myself fifteen thousand times in eight different ways trying to explain a simple concept. 

Y'all think what you like but if they ever released a poll asking what we wanted, don't expect my vote to go towards this sort of idea.

Freeway you're a charm lmao. <3

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Posted

Tbh I'm tired of repeating myself fifteen thousand times in eight different ways trying to explain a simple concept. 

Y'all think what you like but if they ever released a poll asking what we wanted, don't expect my vote to go towards this sort of idea.

Freeway you're a charm lmao. <3

Basically my headache with this thread any why I earned 2 new people to block, aha. Not worth it anymore.

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Posted (edited)

I wanted to reply to this because it gave me a chuckle. ,I am absolutely fine with that. 3 thousand toilets,Think of it this way,Soo many lazy 15 year olds out there that would refuse and not do it for a few years.. Then When getting a license they would appreciate their hard work they had to invest into it. And there would be less 15 year olds on the road.. Older you get the more your mind matures. Less 15 year olds on the road operating thousands of pounds of rolling steel / carbon fiber is fine with me.. You act as if PVP and PVE are totally different things,to use it for this silly analogy But in pvp you use the same skill set and you attack with the same skill set albeit in a different combination.,You do not use the same skill set scrubbing toilets to drive a car. Don't quit your day job. Analogies ain't your thangg my man. Leave that to Cardiel lol

Or you just increase the age limit to 20 or whatever. Tada, no 15 year olds allowed.

> You act as if PVP and PVE are totally different things,to use it for this silly analogy But in pvp you use the same skill set and you attack with the same skill set albeit in a different combination.,You do not use the same skill set scrubbing toilets to drive a car. Don't quit your day job. Analogies ain't your thangg my man. Leave that to Cardiel lol

You use your hands to scrub a toilet as well as to drive a car, this is only slightly less than BDO grind has in common with PVP.

Tbh I'm tired of repeating myself fifteen thousand times in eight different ways trying to explain a simple concept. 

Y'all think what you like but if they ever released a poll asking what we wanted, don't expect my vote to go towards this sort of idea.

Freeway you're a charm lmao. <3

That is because you're trying to explain to me that the Earth is flat. No matter how many times you repeat it, it won't change the reality. But that's fine, ultimately the point of this thread is to get it noticed. The way many gaming companies work is that they have CM's who read the forums, consolidate the feedback and send it over to the devs. The more this thread stays up, the more likely it is to be taken into account. Nobody cares about what is being written on page 11. So feel free to try to explain your simple concept again.

Edited by thdsm

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Posted (edited)

That is because you're trying to explain to me that the Earth is flat. No matter how many times you repeat it, it won't change the reality. But that's fine, ultimately the point of this thread is to get it noticed. The way many gaming companies work is that they have CM's who read the forums, consolidate the feedback and send it over to the devs. The more this thread stays up, the more likely it is to be taken into account. Nobody cares about what is being written on page 11. So feel free to try to explain your simple concept again.

Ok, pal. You certainly are trying hard to push opinion as fact.

Edited by Cardiel

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Posted (edited)

Or you just increase the age limit to 20 or whatever. Tada, no 15 year olds allowed.

> You act as if PVP and PVE are totally different things,to use it for this silly analogy But in pvp you use the same skill set and you attack with the same skill set albeit in a different combination.,You do not use the same skill set scrubbing toilets to drive a car. Don't quit your day job. Analogies ain't your thangg my man. Leave that to Cardiel lol

You use your hands to scrub a toilet as well as to drive a car, this is only slightly less than BDO grind has in common with PVP.

That is because you're trying to explain to me that the Earth is flat. No matter how many times you repeat it, it won't change the reality. But that's fine, ultimately the point of this thread is to get it noticed. The way many gaming companies work is that they have CM's who read the forums, consolidate the feedback and send it over to the devs. The more this thread stays up, the more likely it is to be taken into account. Nobody cares about what is being written on page 11. So feel free to try to explain your simple concept again.

Yup your right totally same action,You use a toilet scrubber to move the steering wheel,makes total sense.,I kill a home intruder using my hands to touch a gun,i use those same hands to feed a baby,same thing ,same action,same intent,gotcha. all makes sense now.

Everythings in common and nothings in common,got it,all makes sense,ooh ahh the whole world works. Idubz bb papa bless.

If you try your best to remove all logic & reason then your posts make perfect sense. I like these rose colored glasses i should keep wearing them
as i approach the next two threads.

rod-serling-meme-generator-it-makes-perf

 

Ok, pal. You certainly are trying hard to push opinion as fact.

Wait? Opinion isn't fact? here Cardiel borrow these glasses

1nywxn.jpg

Make accepting common sense and reality rare. Like you like your steak.
BPA free plastic 100% green company. Buy yours today. Order now and get

TWO yes TWO for the price of one. Check us at your local retailers like Costco.
Buy in bulk with our family pack. Call now and not only will we throw in Two for the price
of one but we will also bundle it with our new 50% smaller dictionary. Who cares about
definitions ,We removed those. And those savings are directly passed onto you ,No shipping or handling.

 

Edited by Freeway
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Posted

impressive 

 

if you all put this much effort into playing the game, we wouldnt need this thread.

 

 

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