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I'd like to get to PVP, but you've put it behind the biggest PVE grindwall ever constructed.

295 posts in this topic

Posted

I would really like to get to the pvp part of this game, but for some reason they feel it necessary to subject me to endless mind-numbing challenge-less grind.

Why? I don't want brainless grind. I want pvp. Why are you making me do this for pvp? Let me earn gear through pvp, let me level through pvp, let me make money through pvp; don't pointlessly subject me to near endless babymode pve content just to get to the fun part. Let me get to the fun part right away. THIS IS A GAME.

For those who just want pvp, there should be an option. Oh, and for goodness sake fix the gear scaling; someone has a certain amount of gearscore, and suddenly you can't scratch them? What? How is that fun for anyone? Yes. It is fun that someone can just stand still and take no damage because they started playing the game before you... . Stop catering to the no-skillers who need gear, and make real pvp where gear doesn't matter as much, or atleast make it so the gearscaling isn't so poorly balanced that people become immunized to another player's damage. .

Let me explain to you how to design pvp properly. You don't have it so the person with better gear is basically immune, you make it so he has a slight advantage; to the point where he still has to use a functioning brain to be able to stay alive; make it so people with terrible gear are at a disadvantage, but not so much of a disadvantage that they can't even consider participating in pvp until they have near the best gear in the game.

People want pvp, and you're not giving it to them; they will take their money elsewhere, and you'll kill your game off before you know it when the next shinier MMO with better thought out mechanics comes around the corner...

And some brutal honesty is needed here : If this game didn't look so visually stunning, and if the combat were not so stylistic and smooth, and the character creator was not so good; people would have left this game long ago. Imagine if this game looked like WOW and came with these mechanics.. You'd have a dead game right there.. The game is literally being carried by the aesthetic, and the fluid action style combat. The marketplace? Terrible, it feels like an amateur programmer put it together.. The enhancements? Clunky, terrible, and poorly designed, failstack mechanic is amateurish, and there are so many stupid loopholes and oversights within that system that they clearly didn't take into consideration; just a slapdash job... Different topic, but you get what i'm saying. If you don't fix these stupid RNG grindy mechanics, the next visually superior MMO will kill this one in a heartbeat.

 

PVP to PVP. Not PVE to PVP.

 

 

I'd like to point out that having some games around that have progression as a core element is a good thing. Having patience and building your strength is sometimes a good thing, it's very satisfying finding some asshole who pk's you only to go and get stronger, go find him/her and destroy them. On the other hand, I do admit that the grind in this game is pretty boring. I'd like to see some other ways to level apart from the billions of mobs. Give us some dungeons, group events, raids with an objective etc and I'd be happy. In an MMO PvE and PvP should go hand in hand, not just one or the other.

What I do agree with in this post: the RNG sucks. Having luck determine whether or not you can progress is a terrible idea because you end up with people who put in huge amounts of effort who could be a real asset to the game's community that are then locked out of being competitive due to dumb luck. Effort and commitment should equal reward and progression, but in this game they sometimes don't.

I'd also like to point out that the imbalance in this game (or at least to the point of what it is now) is fairly recent. Before awakenings there were problems (think I-frames with the sorc and ranger desynch) but it was much closer to being balanced then today's meta. I could take on a level 55 wiz/witch while playing my level 52 wizard and still have a very real chance of winning.

The big issue that I read that you are complaining about is actually having to put in some effort to get strong. Not all games should just give you everything.

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Posted

If you are looking for PVP instantly, you should just play APB

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Posted

I'd like to point out that having some games around that have progression as a core element is a good thing. Having patience and building your strength is sometimes a good thing, it's very satisfying finding some asshole who pk's you only to go and get stronger, go find him/her and destroy them. On the other hand, I do admit that the grind in this game is pretty boring. I'd like to see some other ways to level apart from the billions of mobs. Give us some dungeons, group events, raids with an objective etc and I'd be happy. In an MMO PvE and PvP should go hand in hand, not just one or the other.
What I do agree with in this post: the RNG sucks. Having luck determine whether or not you can progress is a terrible idea because you end up with people who put in huge amounts of effort who could be a real asset to the game's community that are then locked out of being competitive due to dumb luck. Effort and commitment should equal reward and progression, but in this game they sometimes don't.

I'd also like to point out that the imbalance in this game (or at least to the point of what it is now) is fairly recent. Before awakenings there were problems (think I-frames with the sorc and ranger desynch) but it was much closer to being balanced then today's meta. I could take on a level 55 wiz/witch while playing my level 52 wizard and still have a very real chance of winning.

The big issue that I read that you are complaining about is actually having to put in some effort to get strong. Not all games should just give you everything.

No one said anything about everything being handed to you. I'm saying that if I want pvp, I should be able to pvp fairly without having to get to endgame.

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BDO is from 98% PVE game

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I think it is hilarious that you think this is the worst grindwall ever. Try playing pretty much any game published by perfect world, like perfect world international...that games grind makes bdo look like a godsend. 

Now, you don't like the enhancement system. I understand, it isn't for everyone. What you have to remember though is this game is pushing for longevity. It wants to be around for years to come. Since there is no level hardcap, you have to look to the next source of power in a game: equipment. The enhancement system, while hard, is not NEARLY as harsh as other KR games on people. It is strictly set up in a way that it will take many years to get your gear upgraded as high as possible. Look at what happened when +15 was the cap. People were quitting left and right because they had nothing else to work towards. Humans are a goal-oriented race, and if there isn't anything to work on, they will get bored and go to other games.

It is also not designed to support a large number of players. Even with 36 channels, most of the good grind areas are constantly occupied and many people are fighting over them. This is a niche game for a set niche of players. You will need to either adapt or move on, because this is how the game is. PA wants it this way on purpose.

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Posted

BDO is from 98% PVE game

That entirely depends on how much you play parts of the game. And is no surprise most would think it is 98% pve, because they have no way to progress with PVP.

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Posted (edited)

The BDO pvp is only the carrot to make you look for all the possible power ( gear & lvl ) so go through that mindless casino gambing.

But, you, in the end, dont even want to eat that carrot if you ever reach it, considering how broken the pvp itself is.

 

If you want to pvp you really want to look for another game, even if, sure the BDO look appealing with the base gameplay.

Edited by woots

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Posted (edited)

The BDO pvp is only the carrot to make you look for all the possible power ( gear & lvl ) so go through that mindless casino gambing.

But, you, in the end, dont even want to eat that carrot if you ever reach it, considering how broken the pvp itself is.

 

If you want to pvp you really want to look for another game, even if, sure the BDO look appealing with the base gameplay.

That lust for power would still reside regardless of whether we had pvp at endgame, or all the way through the game. For example : Basically every other MMO where people PVP for better gear.

Edited by Octia

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Posted (edited)

That lust for power would still reside regardless of whether we had pvp at endgame, or all the way through the game. For example : Basically every other MMO where people PVP for better gear.

No : GW1 - GW2  no one pvp for better gear. Everyone pvp, either for the game mode itself, either for a leaderboard, either to have somes reward like 100% skin ( and OFC, for the pvp challenge itself )

 

I know ppl are SO BADLY brainwashed and neither use their brain anymore, but you dont need to set a powercreep hunger to have players motivated to pvp ( or just play the game )

As long as devs arent lazy to create real gaming content and correctly think their reward ( so pvp rules )

I'am  totaly sure that game would have "pvp mini game" directly bound to the open world ( like thief - guard things, a constant "war" opposing the world region with various objective.. etc ) so set reward like armor - weapon skins and only skin & learderboard. With a balanced power situation

Sh#t load of ppl would pvp all the time. ( bc : everyone would be relevant in pvp )

 

Unlike now, where few ppl only """"""pvp"""""" just to smash in other players faces their pve RNG luck without any form of challenge. That game only kept all pvp frustrated players looking for an unskilled way to kill players.

 

Edited by woots

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Posted

Pretty much the only thing I liked about reFAILation online was that they have gear bracketed arenas.

Open world PvP was like bdo

Sieges were like bdo

But the arenas were gear bracketed. You had multiple arenas you could Que up from plea gear arena to full blown p2w gear arena. You were paired with people according to ranks, though the rewards were not anything special. Then again I didn't get into the high gear arenas.

For me this setup is absolutely perfect for an mmo. No immersion breaking forced equalization crap, while everyone can fight with someone close to their gear scores.

Hoping that comes in the not too long future forus too.

 

For now we will get lance of ashra and that new PvP fuelling field. Both welcome additions. 

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Posted (edited)

You know what an mmo is right? 

I get that progression feels rewarding as ----- but why should the way to progress be shitty boring activities. Why couldn't the devs make progression actually fun (grinding is fun for like first 10 minutes maybe but it becomes mindlessly boring quickly), isn't that what the essence of games is, TO HAVE FUN?

Edited by Shadowfibby

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Posted

I get that progression feels rewarding as ----- but why should the way to progress be shitty boring activities. Why couldn't the devs make progression actually fun (grinding is fun for like first 10 minutes maybe but it becomes mindlessly boring quickly), isn't that what the essence of games is, TO HAVE FUN?

well that comes down to personal taste really, and nothing is going to remain 'fun' after hundreds of hours. 

 

mmos play a more long term achivment kind of thing rather than the cheap thrill game play on stuff like single player games do 

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Posted (edited)

Those people complaining like Octia don't understand the way of Korean game and what is behind the grind.

I suggest you to get some information in the Net. In Koera, this kind of grind has a deep meaning.

If you really cant stand it. This just mean the game is too tough for you. You would be considered as a "Cry baby" or "wimp" "Sissy" in Korea, and most of Korean player would just advise to stop playing online game overall and laugh at your complain.

 

I suppose you never played game like ragnarok, if you think Bdo is heavy grind.... you should go out to see world of gaming.

 

Edited by Sey
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Posted

No : GW1 - GW2  no one pvp for better gear. Everyone pvp, either for the game mode itself, either for a leaderboard, either to have somes reward like 100% skin ( and OFC, for the pvp challenge itself )

 

I know ppl are SO BADLY brainwashed and neither use their brain anymore, but you dont need to set a powercreep hunger to have players motivated to pvp ( or just play the game )

As long as devs arent lazy to create real gaming content and correctly think their reward ( so pvp rules )

I'am  totaly sure that game would have "pvp mini game" directly bound to the open world ( like thief - guard things, a constant "war" opposing the world region with various objective.. etc ) so set reward like armor - weapon skins and only skin & learderboard. With a balanced power situation

Sh#t load of ppl would pvp all the time. ( bc : everyone would be relevant in pvp )

 

Unlike now, where few ppl only """"""pvp"""""" just to smash in other players faces their pve RNG luck without any form of challenge. That game only kept all pvp frustrated players looking for an unskilled way to kill players.

 

Aion. 

Those people complaining like Octia don't understand the way of Korean game and what is behind the grind.

I suggest you to get some information in the Net. In Koera, this kind of grind has a deep meaning.

If you really cant stand it. This just mean the game is too tough for you. You would be considered as a "Cry baby" or "wimp" "Sissy" in Korea, and most of Korean player would just advise to stop playing online game overall and laugh at your complain.

 

I suppose you never played game like ragnarok, if you think Bdo is heavy grind.... you should go out to see world of gaming.

 

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being at the front of the gearcurve is a huge grindwall, being at the average pvp level is not very hard. a few billion will put you in with the vast majority of players just dont expect to compete with manup etc.

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Its just funny to see ppl like op that are undergeared and think so good about themselves. According to his logic the shittier your gear is the better you are in pvp.

I mean is it obvious that a lvl 60-61 player, with full tet weaps and armors and tri accessories is shit in pvp and only wins because he is gear carried. In op's mind he is just a brain dead no lifer, but he fails to see that most high lvl geared players are in semihardcore and hardcore guilds that have mandatory pvp training. Oh and most of these guilds require an arena test before joining them.

Ofc geared players dont need skill to one shot you, because, obviously, they need 1 skill to kill you. Its like calling Tyson unskilled cuz he just slapped you once and put you in a coma and his only advantage is that he is bigger than you.

Git gud pleb.

 

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I would really like to get to the pvp part of this game, but for some reason they feel it necessary to subject me to endless mind-numbing challenge-less grind.

Why? I don't want brainless grind. I want pvp. Why are you making me do this for pvp? Let me earn gear through pvp, let me level through pvp, let me make money through pvp; don't pointlessly subject me to near endless babymode pve content just to get to the fun part. Let me get to the fun part right away. THIS IS A GAME.

For those who just want pvp, there should be an option. Oh, and for goodness sake fix the gear scaling; someone has a certain amount of gearscore, and suddenly you can't scratch them? What? How is that fun for anyone? Yes. It is fun that someone can just stand still and take no damage because they started playing the game before you... . Stop catering to the no-skillers who need gear, and make real pvp where gear doesn't matter as much, or atleast make it so the gearscaling isn't so poorly balanced that people become immunized to another player's damage. .

Let me explain to you how to design pvp properly. You don't have it so the person with better gear is basically immune, you make it so he has a slight advantage; to the point where he still has to use a functioning brain to be able to stay alive; make it so people with terrible gear are at a disadvantage, but not so much of a disadvantage that they can't even consider participating in pvp until they have near the best gear in the game.

People want pvp, and you're not giving it to them; they will take their money elsewhere, and you'll kill your game off before you know it when the next shinier MMO with better thought out mechanics comes around the corner...

And some brutal honesty is needed here : If this game didn't look so visually stunning, and if the combat were not so stylistic and smooth, and the character creator was not so good; people would have left this game long ago. Imagine if this game looked like WOW and came with these mechanics.. You'd have a dead game right there.. The game is literally being carried by the aesthetic, and the fluid action style combat. The marketplace? Terrible, it feels like an amateur programmer put it together.. The enhancements? Clunky, terrible, and poorly designed, failstack mechanic is amateurish, and there are so many stupid loopholes and oversights within that system that they clearly didn't take into consideration; just a slapdash job... Different topic, but you get what i'm saying. If you don't fix these stupid RNG grindy mechanics, the next visually superior MMO will kill this one in a heartbeat.

 

PVP to PVP. Not PVE to PVP.

 

 

I feel the same way.

But you can actually turn this cursed game into a blessing. I no life zombie grinded and now I can dumpster kids all day with minimum effort. It's great. 

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As others have said, bdo is not a pvp game. It's a single player rpg with chat. 

The visuals and fluid combat are amazing. Those are also the reason the pvp performance is shit.

Remember twinks from WoW? That is what pvp in this game is and the people at the top will defend it and pa likes it too.

If they come out with a ap normalized arena then you should play. Otherwise, just move on. 

 

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If you want pure pvp play solitaire online or something like that. This is an MMO. 

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BDO is from 98% PVE game

Bullsh1t BDO is 98% AFK game...

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Bullsh1t BDO is 98% AFK game...

true. It is weird playing a game that rewards afk game play so much VS active game play. 

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true. It is weird playing a game that rewards afk game play so much VS active game play. 

This is the only thing that keeps this game well and prospering. Remove the rewards for AFK gameplay and the game will immediately become total hardcore for 90% of players

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Bullsh1t BDO is 98% AFK game...

true. It is weird playing a game that rewards afk game play so much VS active game play. 

In theory and practice during the early updates of the game, its a good system to let casual players keep up with more active ones to a reasonable degree. But over the last few major updates *im looking at you VALENCIA UPDATE  (ง ͠° ͟ل͜ ͡°)ง* active playing hasnt really had its rewards scaled while afk playing has continued to grow, to a point where its simply overtaken active play.

WHat is depressing is that further updates that have already been released in KR show that even these new active play updates provide extreme lack luster rewards compared less active sources.

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This is the only thing that keeps this game well and prospering. Remove the rewards for AFK gameplay and the game will immediately become total hardcore for 90% of players

ya this game design probably does make it overall more popular. Widens the appeal to more audiences. 

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I mean is it obvious that a lvl 60-61 player, with full tet weaps and armors and tri accessories is shit in pvp and only wins because he is gear carried. In op's mind he is just a brain dead no lifer, but he fails to see that most high lvl geared players are in semihardcore and hardcore guilds that have mandatory pvp training. Oh and most of these guilds require an arena test before joining them.

Ofc geared players dont need skill to one shot you, because, obviously, they need 1 skill to kill you. Its like calling Tyson unskilled cuz he just slapped you once and put you in a coma and his only advantage is that he is bigger than you.

 

Yet the way such a player has obtained their gear remains completely separate from their (in-)ability to PvP. That is what the OP is pointing out - among other things - and which you even seem to support with your statement: That player would be "skilled" at PvP because of the time invested into PvP. Not because of the time invested into grinding mobs and getting lucky on casino-enchanting gear, that simply results in the "gear-carry" part of PvP, which at least in my opinion is ridiculously huge.

That said, the OP and others asking for a more even (as in equalized) play-field do not want freebies as others have suggested. On the contrary, they want to put in just as much - if not more - work into progression, but doing so through the ability to actually play PvP. And not grind millions of brainless PvE mobs. As a PvPer, I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment.

As far as I'm concerned, the current system with grinding and enchanting is for mediocre folk who are afraid of true effort. Other MMOs have a far higher skill-ceiling and content such as raids or generally instanced content that requires gaming skill, practice and social interaction that goes far beyond anything BDO currently has in place. BDO only asks for your time, it rewards the lab rat spinning the wheel or whatever and lets you continue rolling dice. How such mindless repetition should carry over into PvP-advantages is - again for me as a PvPer - totally ridiculous. If someone is indeed as skilled at PvP as you claim those hardcore folk are, they are not afraid of competition, they welcome them - and they certainly do not need their gear-score advantages.

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