• Announcements

    • IMPORTANT - REACH US IN THE NEW FORUM   05/04/2017

      Ladies and gentlemen ATTENTION please:
      It's time to move into a new house!
        As previously announced, from now on IT WON'T BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE THREADS OR REPLY in the old forums. From now on the old forums will be readable only. If you need to move/copy/migrate any post/material from here, feel free to contact the staff in the new home. We’ll be waiting for you in the NEW Forums!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php

      *New features and amazing tools are waiting for you, even more is yet to come in the future.. just like world exploration in BDO leads to new possibilities.
      So don't be afraid about changes, click the link above and follow us!
      Enjoy and see you on the other side!  
    • WICHTIG: Das Forum ist umgezogen!   05/04/2017

      Damen und Herren, wir bitten um Eure Aufmerksamkeit, es ist an der Zeit umzuziehen!
        Wie wir bereits angekündigt hatten, ist es ab sofort nicht mehr möglich, neue Diskussionen in diesem Forum zu starten. Um Euch Zeit zu geben, laufende Diskussionen abzuschließen, könnt Ihr noch für zwei Wochen in offenen Diskussionen antworten. Danach geht dieses Forum hier in den Ruhestand und das NEUE FORUM übernimmt vollständig.
      Das Forum hier bleibt allerdings erhalten und lesbar.   Neue und verbesserte Funktionen warten auf Euch im neuen Forum und wir arbeiten bereits an weiteren Erweiterungen.
      Wir sehen uns auf der anderen Seite!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php Update:
      Wie angekündigt könen ab sofort in diesem Forum auch keine neuen Beiträge mehr veröffentlicht werden.
    • IMPORTANT: Le nouveau forum   05/04/2017

      Aventurières, aventuriers, votre attention s'il vous plaît, il est grand temps de déménager!
      Comme nous vous l'avons déjà annoncé précédemment, il n'est désormais plus possible de créer de nouveau sujet ni de répondre aux anciens sur ce bon vieux forum.
      Venez visiter le nouveau forum!
      https://community.blackdesertonline.com
      De nouvelles fonctionnalités ainsi que de nouveaux outils vous attendent dès à présent et d'autres arriveront prochainement! N'ayez pas peur du changement et rejoignez-nous! Amusez-vous bien et a bientôt dans notre nouveau chez nous

Dande vs Ulti Awaken weapon

47 posts in this topic

Posted

Hi all,

I currently have a TET Ulti Awaken weapon. I know is not the BiS weapon, so is it wort getting a TRI Dande to replace it?

I bought the TET of market, don't rly have the balls to enchant to TET, TRI is stressful enough for me. Dande I could probably buy a TRI or enchant myself to TRI, but that's where I'll stop.

So, keeping in mind that the AP is the same, Ulti have more human damage - does Dande have any hidden damage? How does a TRI compare with TET ulti?

Thkx.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

If u gonna PVP definitely Dande is mandatory, for PVE u don't need Dande

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Not a big PvP-er, will try it in the future though at some point. Why do you think TRI Dande is better when in fact TET Ulti has the human damage added?

Looking just at the description it seems TET Ulti is the right choice. Is there a hidden damage on Dande? Anyone did a comparison?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Dande has hidden accuracy, u can run a test if u don't believe me.

If Dande didn't have this hidden accuracy then it's completely useless as TET Blue would outperform TRI Dande, nobody would be putting up those absurd preorder price.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Only if you're planning to buy/enhance a TET dande. Otherwise not worth to switch

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Hi all,

I currently have a TET Ulti Awaken weapon. I know is not the BiS weapon, so is it wort getting a TRI Dande to replace it?

I bought the TET of market, don't rly have the balls to enchant to TET, TRI is stressful enough for me. Dande I could probably buy a TRI or enchant myself to TRI, but that's where I'll stop.

So, keeping in mind that the AP is the same, Ulti have more human damage - does Dande have any hidden damage? How does a TRI compare with TET ulti?

Thkx.

This subject has been discussed and proven several times please use the forum search function next time. A search for "Dande vs" or "Dandelion vs" will get the result you want.

PvP ultimate awakening weapon at same enchant level as Dande is just barely slightly better with a much lower cost.

for PvE and generic all around goodness the dande is the better choice.

so for you, you would actually need a TET dande to match your current weapon in PvP... A TRI dande would only equal it in PvE.  A TET dande would be a PvE upgrade only.

If u gonna PVP definitely Dande is mandatory, for PVE u don't need Dande

No, actually exactly the opposite of what you said.

Dande has hidden accuracy, u can run a test if u don't believe me.

If Dande didn't have this hidden accuracy then it's completely useless as TET Blue would outperform TRI Dande, nobody would be putting up those absurd preorder price.

Nope, awakening weapons have NO accuracy at all actually. The awakening skills get their accuracy from the mainhand weapon, offhand, accessories, sets and buffs.

People go for dandelion weapons because overall it is the BIS weapon (ignoring details and nuances) and poeple then can say "Hey, im done with slot forever and can move onto something else" ..

Only if you're planning to buy/enhance a TET dande. Otherwise not worth to switch

Agreed.

Edited by remilafo
7 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Dande has hidden accuracy, u can run a test if u don't believe me.

If Dande didn't have this hidden accuracy then it's completely useless as TET Blue would outperform TRI Dande, nobody would be putting up those absurd preorder price.

Please, just stop spreading misinformation. There is no test in EU/NA/KR that says anything about (hidden) Accuracy on Awakening weapons. All the accuracy on weapons comes from the mainhand/offhand.

@OP: It is exactly as Remilafo said. Your TET blue is better than a TRI Dande in PVP, and on par concerning PVE.

Edited by Irini

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

people who say blue is better than yellow, you need to learn how to make silver instead of lying to yourself to make up the no silver problem.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Please, just stop spreading misinformation. There is no test in EU/NA/KR that says anything about (hidden) Accuracy on Awakening weapons. All the accuracy on weapons comes from the mainhand/offhand.

@OP: It is exactly as Remilafo said. Your TET blue is better than a TRI Dande in PVP, and on par concerning PVE.

that is correct .

TET ultimate , same AP , human damage , beats TRI dande. ( only in pvp )

TET dande , 8more AP. beast TET ultimate. both pve and pvp.

human damage = flat number
AP = base number for skill damage calculus.

Edited by Sizer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Dande has hidden accuracy, u can run a test if u don't believe me.

If Dande didn't have this hidden accuracy then it's completely useless as TET Blue would outperform TRI Dande, nobody would be putting up those absurd preorder price.

stop spreading bullshit

OP : Feel free to use your TET Yellow, its close to Dandy due to hidden human damage (no it wasnt nerfed, another retarded myth). Many people think that PvP is gated behind boss weapons and grindfest. Dandy is superior in endgame PvE (more raw ap, more money). You can be viable in PvP even with Manos rings (i do own them, in PvP they perform exactly same as crescents). 

For PvE and non human/demihuman mobs, Dandy is ofc better. Human damage is slightly cheaper because its meant to be PvP equivalient. Raw ap is superior in PvE. As i said, more raw ap, faster clear speed = more money.  Thing is that you once you pass certain AP treshold, its not that important if you have 220 or 180ap at crescents or any white mobs (depends on your lvl) because you can basically oneshot them. Looks like game was designed in way where more ap = more benefits at aakman, hystria, basi, centaur, pila and sulufr (+ kamasylvia coming) but if you PvE at white/green mobs, its not worth switching if you PvE only. People are still grinding at most common spots. You may need lot of acc and raw AP for kamasylvia (or new earrings with + attack against kama mobs)

Dandy is not must have, its something you want to minmax your stats for endgame. Depends on your goals.

human damage = flat number

on human targets, its scales with % modifiers, test it if you dont believe. I did before i yoloed my crescents. 2x duo manos with 12human damage performed same as 2x duo crescents. Results were so close to each other that it was in margin of rng (kzarka, dandy and offhand have min and max damage which makes results fluctating slightly in tenth)

Edited by Chors

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)


human damage = flat number
AP = base number for skill damage calculus.

not quite..

HD does take advantage of the % multipliers on skills.

To add more depth... AP on awakened weapons only scale 70% compared to the AP on Accessories.
Human damage scales the same regardless where it is in your gear.  1 accesory ap > 1 Human dmg 

Sadly though... 1 Human damage > 1 awakened weapon AP..

before you get all triggered as per your usual MO, go check out the work by Zephan as it has all been laid out and tested.

 

here i pulled up the research for you...  since this is something everyone should know..

human damage vs Ultimate AP scaling..  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHuG5ujhjE4&t=2s

and here is different kinds of AP scaling.. (this is really fooked!).. http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/128316-awakening-ap-mainhand-ap-universal-ap-testing/

.... PS.. just incase it's not clear...

The reason Ultimate blue awakening Weapon is better at same enchant level as Dandelion is because the Human damage on the Blue awakening weapons scales unspecific to combat stance (AKA it works for Main hand attacks also) because of this that +7 human damage scales closer to Ultimate AP as described in Zephans thread.

Math time..

8 Awakened AP x 0.7 = 5.6 effective AP

7 human Damage x 0.84 = 5.88 Effective AP

Edited by remilafo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

not quite..

HD does take advantage of the % multipliers on skills.

To add more depth... AP on awakened weapons only scale 70% compared to the AP on Accessories.
Human damage scales the same regardless where it is in your gear.  1 accesory ap > 1 Human dmg 

Sadly though... 1 Human damage > 1 awakened weapon AP..

before you get all triggered as per your usual MO, go check out the work by Zephan as it has all been laid out and tested.

Where did you get only 70% from.

People pulling random shit numbers out of thin air nowadays

Any AP > human damage

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

People pulling random shit numbers out of thin air nowadays

At least someone did tests and showed real numbers (use google).

You came here and did same. Pulled those 3 sentences out of your ass.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

not quite..

HD does take advantage of the % multipliers on skills.

To add more depth... AP on awakened weapons only scale 70% compared to the AP on Accessories.
Human damage scales the same regardless where it is in your gear.  1 accesory ap > 1 Human dmg 

Sadly though... 1 Human damage > 1 awakened weapon AP..

before you get all triggered as per your usual MO, go check out the work by Zephan as it has all been laid out and tested.

 

here i pulled up the research for you...  since this is something everyone should know..

human damage vs Ultimate AP scaling..  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHuG5ujhjE4&t=2s

and here is different kinds of AP scaling.. (this is really fooked!).. http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/128316-awakening-ap-mainhand-ap-universal-ap-testing/

.... PS.. just incase it's not clear...

The reason Ultimate blue awakening Weapon is better at same enchant level as Dandelion is because the Human damage on the Blue awakening weapons scales unspecific to combat stance (AKA it works for Main hand attacks also) because of this that +7 human damage scales closer to Ultimate AP as described in Zephans thread.

Math time..

8 Awakened AP x 0.7 = 5.6 effective AP

7 human Damage x 0.84 = 5.88 Effective AP

nice tin foil hat you got there bruh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Hi all,

I currently have a TET Ulti Awaken weapon. I know is not the BiS weapon, so is it wort getting a TRI Dande to replace it?

I bought the TET of market, don't rly have the balls to enchant to TET, TRI is stressful enough for me. Dande I could probably buy a TRI or enchant myself to TRI, but that's where I'll stop.

So, keeping in mind that the AP is the same, Ulti have more human damage - does Dande have any hidden damage? How does a TRI compare with TET ulti?

Thkx.

Keep your TET. Not worth at all switching to Tri Dande. Now if you wanted a TET Dande, that'd be a different story...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

At least someone did tests and showed real numbers (use google).

You came here and did same. Pulled those 3 sentences out of your ass.

And those tests 100% confirmed that only 70% of awakened weapon ap is actually effective compared to other AP?

get the ----- out of here lmao you're just a bandwagoner go believe w/e you want, doesn't make you right

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

get the ----- out of here lmao you're just a bandwagoner go believe w/e you want, doesn't make you right

You sounds like typical NA guy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

You sounds like typical NA guy.

You sound like you lost the argument so you're just trying to insult me as a person and not as a player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Dandy > ulti at all levels and every aspect of the game pve/pvp/lifeskill
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Where did you get only 70% from.

People pulling random shit numbers out of thin air nowadays

Any AP > human damage

you didn't follow the link. the data and tests are there.

if you don't want to learn thats your business. 

nice tin foil hat you got there bruh.

Same goes for you as the other guy.

Dandy > ulti at all levels and every aspect of the game pve/pvp/lifeskill
 

lifeskill huh.... okay...    I got a +10 balenos fishing rod that says it can beat your Dandy at fishing.

seriously now.. Dande is BIS sure.... but Ulti is equivalent in PvP at half the cost.. Facts okay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

snips

so because I'm 100% percent sure, you're in the wrong. 
I'm the one who don't want to learn.

damn you must be a liberal.

tin foil hat theory that accesories AP are worth more than weapon's,  1 AP is 1 AP . that's all. 
it'd be a coding nightmare to differenciate '' worth '' of 1 AP per specific item and completely idiotic to code something like that instead of just give correct AP value.

it's like those folks who says Kzarka do 30 % more damage in pvp. 100% bullshit.
Kzarka has 5 % more accuracy and that's it.

g'day. you should just play instead of finding reasons to have sub-par gears.

Edited by Sizer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

so because I'm 100% percent sure, you're in the wrong. I'm the one who don't want to learn.

damn you must be a liberal.

tin foil hat theory that accesories AP are worth more than weapon's,  1 AP is 1 AP . that's all. 
it'd be a coding nightmare to differenciate '' worth '' of 1 AP per specific item and completely idiotic to code something like that instead of just give correct AP value.

it's like those folks who says Kzarka do 30 % more damage in pvp. 100% bullshit.
Kzarka has 5 % more accuracy and that's it.

g'day. you should just play instead of finding reasons to have sub-par gears.

If you're not backing up with your own data to argue against it, it definitely is just you wearing the tinfoil now.

It's not a coding nightmare considering that the game just extended on the damage formula for awakening to calculate and Zephon provided proof for why offhand/accessories have more benefit than weapon AP by breaking down and dissecting the AP sources. Since you're just basically taking ~43% of mainhand on sheet and applying that into the awk damage formula which leads you to using ~143% of the AP from offhand/accessories instead.

To refute saying AP from accessories and offhand is not worth more than the weapon is practically saying the dev's statement to awk damage of having ~50% of mainhand added to your awakening damage would be false (which it is to an extent but not entirely false). Because how is it that your other sources of AP not worth a lot more? For every 1 awakened AP (only from the weapon), during damage calculation: ~.43 AP comes mainhand, ~1.43 AP comes from rest of your other sources (offhand/accessories/crystals/buffs).

I mean- 1 AP from your awk weapon is sure more than ~1.43 AP from your accessories,offhand, consumable/guild/potion/alchemy stone/etc buffs, right?

For your awakening, 1 AP is not entirely just 1 AP for the most part, it holds true for mainhand but not exactly for awakening when it comes to calculating damage.

 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Hi all,

I currently have a TET Ulti Awaken weapon. I know is not the BiS weapon, so is it wort getting a TRI Dande to replace it?

I bought the TET of market, don't rly have the balls to enchant to TET, TRI is stressful enough for me. Dande I could probably buy a TRI or enchant myself to TRI, but that's where I'll stop.

So, keeping in mind that the AP is the same, Ulti have more human damage - does Dande have any hidden damage? How does a TRI compare with TET ulti?

Thkx.

Keep it, use it for a backup while you are trying to TET a dande.

Edited by jangalangz
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

reduced

still the same old MO, oh well.  This is you right here.

IMG_2624.thumb.PNG.d2488b2d4403684df664d

If you're not backing up with your own data to argue against it, it definitely is just you wearing the tinfoil now.

It's not a coding nightmare considering that the game just extended on the damage formula for awakening to calculate and Zephon provided proof for why offhand/accessories have more benefit than weapon AP by breaking down and dissecting the AP sources. Since you're just basically taking ~43% of mainhand on sheet and applying that into the awk damage formula which leads you to using ~143% of the AP from offhand/accessories instead.

To refute saying AP from accessories and offhand is not worth more than the weapon is practically saying the dev's statement to awk damage of having ~50% of mainhand added to your awakening damage would be false (which it is to an extent but not entirely false). Because how is it that your other sources of AP not worth a lot more? For every 1 awakened AP (only from the weapon), during damage calculation: ~.43 AP comes mainhand, ~1.43 AP comes from rest of your other sources (offhand/accessories/crystals/buffs).

I mean- 1 AP from your awk weapon is sure more than ~1.43 AP from your accessories,offhand, consumable/guild/potion/alchemy stone/etc buffs, right?

For your awakening, 1 AP is not entirely just 1 AP for the most part, it holds true for mainhand but not exactly for awakening when it comes to calculating damage.

 

Sizer this guy makes alot of sense, you could learn from this.

@moderators .. can we /close this thread, the OP's question has been answered or at minimum given enough information to make up their own mind. The trolls and salt vultures are just going to snow ball from here.

Edited by remilafo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

http://miragestep.blog113.fc2.com/blog-entry-371.html

Use website translation to read this

I'm not sure NA/EU has the same client, but I play in JP and many ppl have run tests and show that Dande has accuracy over Blue. I've also run a test myself with TRI Dande vs TRI Blue and Dande had more accuracy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites