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Dande vs Ulti Awaken weapon

47 posts in this topic

Posted

Tet ult  = Tri dande. But lets not forget that ult have bonus effect so its sort off better on its own way.

But good luck on trying to get tet to match someone with tri :P 

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Posted

This subject has been discussed and proven several times please use the forum search function next time. A search for "Dande vs" or "Dandelion vs" will get the result you want.

PvP ultimate awakening weapon at same enchant level as Dande is just barely slightly better with a much lower cost.

for PvE and generic all around goodness the dande is the better choice.

so for you, you would actually need a TET dande to match your current weapon in PvP... A TRI dande would only equal it in PvE.  A TET dande would be a PvE upgrade only.

No, actually exactly the opposite of what you said.

Nope, awakening weapons have NO accuracy at all actually. The awakening skills get their accuracy from the mainhand weapon, offhand, accessories, sets and buffs.

People go for dandelion weapons because overall it is the BIS weapon (ignoring details and nuances) and poeple then can say "Hey, im done with slot forever and can move onto something else" ..

Agreed.

If you've used a dandy you will see a difference, like with kzarka from liverto. You have two types of people:

1.) Why would i ever get <insert item name here> (dandy, kzarka, boss gear) if the AP/DP stats are the same at +1 enhancement more?! (we call those people those who havent used the items yet)

2.) Kzarka, Dandy, Bhegs gloves makes a huge difference! You will see it when you use it.

It boils down to one thing... if you havent used these items in pve/pvp yet... you really dont know what youre talking about.

-Dandy does not have accuracy. If you read under "Enhancement Effects: Increase Attack Power", it means youre getting bonus AP per enhancement that is NOT seen on the ap sheet. Note the ultimate also has this... but I guarantee you it is less than the dandy. Hence why people go for dandy.

Look at Kzarka, Bhegs, Muskans. Each one has Enhancement Effect: AP/Acc (Kzarka), Acc (Bhegs), Evasion (Muskans) increases, unlike Giaths or Tree/Rednose. The numbers arent displayed so we do not know outside of actual testing what it really is, just that it is more than its counterpart (liverto, Grunil, Rocaba, etc).

Those of you who say there is not much of a difference and have not used any of the "BiS" gear in question... do you really think you have a place to talk when you havent tried it yet? There is a reason why people are using the gear despite the difficulty to get it (which if you are making baller money, its really not that hard to get)

If you have any questions on this feel free to ask me on it and I'll answer to the best of my ability on these things. I've been playing this game since release and can easily tell you there tiers of character increases based upon a few things you can impact, and some you cant.

1485060589844.jpg

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Posted (edited)

http://miragestep.blog113.fc2.com/blog-entry-371.html

Use website translation to read this

I'm not sure NA/EU has the same client, but I play in JP and many ppl have run tests and show that Dande has accuracy over Blue. I've also run a test myself with TRI Dande vs TRI Blue and Dande had more accuracy.

well i did my best to understand what google translate gave me. It seems like this is a dmg test.

With the first round of testing having the blue and dande doing the same damage with the defender using a nouver offhand.

but in the second round of testing the defender switches to a "perin" offhand whatever that is and then the result is that the Dande comes out slightly on top in terms of dmg.

First im going to assume that "Perin" offhand is some sort of DP offhand. okay..

Sadly though you can't conclude that Dande has additional accuracy from this sort of test. It's a possibility but the variable that has changed is the defenders DP. Not the attackers weapon.

in the results you see that the Dmg delivered is lower for BOTH weapons in the second dmg test. So the first conclusion is that more DP reduces incoming dmg right and you can extrapolate a bit and say that more evasion increased the miss chance in the attacker. Infact in the second round of testing the data set is WAY WAY too small to determine that dande has accuracy cause look..


● Perin Equipment HP 2839 
· Get attacked with blue weapon 
→ 2234 
2564 
→ 2452 
2571 
→ 2452 
→ 2058 
→ 2435 
→ 2293 
→ 2302 
→ 2553 
→ 2430 
Average No 444

· Get attacked by Dande 
2554 
→ 2307 
→ 2161 
→ 2404 
→ 2115 
→ 2387 
2581 
→ 2422 
→ 2113 
→ 2287 
→ 2567 
Average Noise 484

In the dmg test there were rounds were the Ultimate Blue weapon did equal and more and lower than the dande. All that we can conclude with any confidence is that the defender raised their DP to the point were the attack's hit chance was below 100%.

If you've used a dandy you will see a difference, like with kzarka from liverto. You have two types of people:

1.) Why would i ever get <insert item name here> (dandy, kzarka, boss gear) if the AP/DP stats are the same at +1 enhancement more?! (we call those people those who havent used the items yet)

2.) Kzarka, Dandy, Bhegs gloves makes a huge difference! You will see it when you use it.

It boils down to one thing... if you havent used these items in pve/pvp yet... you really dont know what youre talking about.

-Dandy does not have accuracy. If you read under "Enhancement Effects: Increase Attack Power", it means youre getting bonus AP per enhancement that is NOT seen on the ap sheet. Note the ultimate also has this... but I guarantee you it is less than the dandy. Hence why people go for dandy.

Look at Kzarka, Bhegs, Muskans. Each one has Enhancement Effect: AP/Acc (Kzarka), Acc (Bhegs), Evasion (Muskans) increases, unlike Giaths or Tree/Rednose. The numbers arent displayed so we do not know outside of actual testing what it really is, just that it is more than its counterpart (liverto, Grunil, Rocaba, etc).

Those of you who say there is not much of a difference and have not used any of the "BiS" gear in question... do you really think you have a place to talk when you havent tried it yet? There is a reason why people are using the gear despite the difficulty to get it (which if you are making baller money, its really not that hard to get)

If you have any questions on this feel free to ask me on it and I'll answer to the best of my ability on these things. I've been playing this game since release and can easily tell you there tiers of character increases based upon a few things you can impact, and some you cant.

Man this is a really snobby attitude to have, like get off your high horse.

1. For the record I have a Tet Kzarka, tet dande, Tet kutum, Tri Nouver, full TRI boss armor and Full AP and DP set of Tri accessories.

2. They have an impact sure but "HUGE difference!" nope, it's a testable difference. You are giving into sensationalism and letting subjective bias influence your perception.

3. You are incorrect about suggesting there is Hidden AP on the Dande or the Blue awakened weapon, there is NOT!.. AP is NOT hidden on weapons in this game and never has been. The AP that does not appear on your inventory sheet is from sets, gems and buffs.

4. As for Bhegs, muskans, kzarka etc.  We do know! the community has tested it or better yet datamined it. Just research.

5. Again with the snobby attitude, who cares if you have played since launch, so have a ton of us. Infact i would wager that the people whom regularly use these forums are launch date members. Rather than stomping your feet and claiming you're an authority on this game back up your "Opinions" (because they are just that Opinions) with actual data; like I did.

Edited by remilafo
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Posted

well i did my best to understand what google translate gave me. It seems like this is a dmg test.

With the first round of testing having the blue and dande doing the same damage with the defender using a nouver offhand.

but in the second round of testing the defender switches to a "perin" offhand whatever that is and then the result is that the Dande comes out slightly on top in terms of dmg.

First im going to assume that "Perin" offhand is some sort of DP offhand. okay..

Sadly though you can't conclude that Dande has additional accuracy from this sort of test. It's a possibility but the variable that has changed is the defenders DP. Not the attackers weapon.

in the results you see that the Dmg delivered is lower for BOTH weapons in the second dmg test. So the first conclusion is that more DP reduces incoming dmg right and you can extrapolate a bit and say that more evasion increased the miss chance in the attacker. Infact in the second round of testing the data set is WAY WAY too small to determine that dande has accuracy cause look..


● Perin Equipment HP 2839 
· Get attacked with blue weapon 
→ 2234 
→ 2564 
→ 2452 
→ 2571 
→ 2452 
→ 2058 
→ 2435 
→ 2293 
→ 2302 
→ 2553 
→ 2430 
Average No 444

· Get attacked by Dande 
→ 2554 
→ 2307 
→ 2161 
→ 2404 
→ 2115 
→ 2387 
→ 2581 
→ 2422 
→ 2113 
→ 2287 
→ 2567 
Average Noise 484

In the dmg test there were rounds were the Ultimate Blue weapon did equal and more and lower than the dande. All that we can conclude with any confidence is that the defender raised their DP to the point were the attack's hit chance was below 100%.

Man this is a really snobby attitude to have, like get off your high horse.

1. For the record I have a Tet Kzarka, tet dande, Tet kutum, Tri Nouver, full TRI boss armor and Full AP and DP set of Tri accessories.

2. They have an impact sure but "HUGE difference!" nope, it's a testable difference. You are giving into sensationalism and letting subjective bias influence your perception.

3. You are incorrect about suggesting there is Hidden AP on the Dande or the Blue awakened weapon, there is NOT!.. AP is NOT hidden on weapons in their game and never has been. The AP that does not appear on your inventory sheet is from sets, gems and buffs.

4. As for Bhegs, muskans, kzarka etc.  We do know! the community has tested it or better yet datamined it. Just research.

5. Again with the snobby attitude, who cares if you have played since launch, so have a ton of us. Infact i would wager that the people whom regularly use these forums are launch date members. Rather than stomping your feet and claiming you're an authority on this game back up your "Opinions" (because they are just that Opinions) with actual data; like I did.

OK fine run a test by urself or wait for someone in NA/EU to do some in depth test. 

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Posted

If you've used a dandy you will see a difference, like with kzarka from liverto. You have two types of people:

1.) Why would i ever get <insert item name here> (dandy, kzarka, boss gear) if the AP/DP stats are the same at +1 enhancement more?! (we call those people those who havent used the items yet)

2.) Kzarka, Dandy, Bhegs gloves makes a huge difference! You will see it when you use it.

It boils down to one thing... if you havent used these items in pve/pvp yet... you really dont know what youre talking about.

-Dandy does not have accuracy. If you read under "Enhancement Effects: Increase Attack Power", it means youre getting bonus AP per enhancement that is NOT seen on the ap sheet. Note the ultimate also has this... but I guarantee you it is less than the dandy. Hence why people go for dandy.

Look at Kzarka, Bhegs, Muskans. Each one has Enhancement Effect: AP/Acc (Kzarka), Acc (Bhegs), Evasion (Muskans) increases, unlike Giaths or Tree/Rednose. The numbers arent displayed so we do not know outside of actual testing what it really is, just that it is more than its counterpart (liverto, Grunil, Rocaba, etc).

Those of you who say there is not much of a difference and have not used any of the "BiS" gear in question... do you really think you have a place to talk when you havent tried it yet? There is a reason why people are using the gear despite the difficulty to get it (which if you are making baller money, its really not that hard to get)

If you have any questions on this feel free to ask me on it and I'll answer to the best of my ability on these things. I've been playing this game since release and can easily tell you there tiers of character increases based upon a few things you can impact, and some you cant.

I am not sure why you bring up Bhegs/Kzarka in this conversation as it's irrelevant since we are comparing two awakening weapons (dandy and ultimate blue). It's obvious bheg's makes a difference and same goes with kzarka but that's not the issue here. It's stupid to assume people haven't used those items in either pvp or pve.

Now let me spell some things out for you. This discussion here is about optimization, OP is considering two items: TET Ultimate Blue or a TRI Dandy. Comparing both items, they basically perform on par in both PvP and PvE, hence it's concluded he does not need to have it replace until he can get a TET dandy or PEN. Hence he'll be able to focus on his other gears like having full TET boss armors or better accessories which will save time and silver. It's up to you to believe that a TET blue can perform as well as a TRI Dandy even though Dandy is the BiS gear. But let me tell you that the difference is marginal with a TET Ultimate Blue vs a TRI Dandy because of the +human damage you gain from the Ultimate Blue which leads to it being on par with a TRI Dandy.

It's obvious Dandy doesn't have accuracy so it's redundant why you quoted remi's comment on dandy having no accuracy and pointing out something from the tooltip but wrongly explaining it. Since every single mainhand, awakened, armor has that same Enhancement Effects tooltip but with similar enhancement bonuses.

The only thing that's hidden is accuracy or any damage modifier such as All Species, Demihuman, Human, etc. that won't show on your character sheet but everything else is there (excluding crystals, set bonuses, consumable buffs). So you don't get extra bonus AP from enhancement that's hidden. It's questionable you even came to this kind of conclusion if you had a dandy, kzarka, boss gear. The numbers provide are actually as you see it on the item tooltip and thanks to the this, it pretty much invalidates your claim. But apparently, you probably never knew so you continued to believe of an existing pseudo hidden bonus from every BiS.

This discussion is similar to global warming debate, with those who have done tests and those who are just suddenly spouting things from no where...

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Posted (edited)

well i did my best to understand what google translate gave me. It seems like this is a dmg test.

With the first round of testing having the blue and dande doing the same damage with the defender using a nouver offhand.

but in the second round of testing the defender switches to a "perin" offhand whatever that is and then the result is that the Dande comes out slightly on top in terms of dmg.

First im going to assume that "Perin" offhand is some sort of DP offhand. okay..

Sadly though you can't conclude that Dande has additional accuracy from this sort of test. It's a possibility but the variable that has changed is the defenders DP. Not the attackers weapon.

in the results you see that the Dmg delivered is lower for BOTH weapons in the second dmg test. So the first conclusion is that more DP reduces incoming dmg right and you can extrapolate a bit and say that more evasion increased the miss chance in the attacker. Infact in the second round of testing the data set is WAY WAY too small to determine that dande has accuracy cause look..


● Perin Equipment HP 2839 
· Get attacked with blue weapon 
→ 2234 
2564 
→ 2452 
2571 
→ 2452 
→ 2058 
→ 2435 
→ 2293 
→ 2302 
→ 2553 
→ 2430 
Average No 444

· Get attacked by Dande 
2554 
→ 2307 
→ 2161 
→ 2404 
→ 2115 
→ 2387 
2581 
→ 2422 
→ 2113 
→ 2287 
→ 2567 
Average Noise 484

In the dmg test there were rounds were the Ultimate Blue weapon did equal and more and lower than the dande. All that we can conclude with any confidence is that the defender raised their DP to the point were the attack's hit chance was below 100%.

Man this is a really snobby attitude to have, like get off your high horse.

1. For the record I have a Tet Kzarka, tet dande, Tet kutum, Tri Nouver, full TRI boss armor and Full AP and DP set of Tri accessories.

2. They have an impact sure but "HUGE difference!" nope, it's a testable difference. You are giving into sensationalism and letting subjective bias influence your perception.

3. You are incorrect about suggesting there is Hidden AP on the Dande or the Blue awakened weapon, there is NOT!.. AP is NOT hidden on weapons in this game and never has been. The AP that does not appear on your inventory sheet is from sets, gems and buffs.

4. As for Bhegs, muskans, kzarka etc.  We do know! the community has tested it or better yet datamined it. Just research.

5. Again with the snobby attitude, who cares if you have played since launch, so have a ton of us. Infact i would wager that the people whom regularly use these forums are launch date members. Rather than stomping your feet and claiming you're an authority on this game back up your "Opinions" (because they are just that Opinions) with actual data; like I did.

quit projecting

its a noticeable difference, which is what the original op asked

Edited by Malpercio

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Posted

Get over it guys. Alsong you did not hack the server from AB and Datamine it you will always lie yourself.

I imagen how smart AB is against Gold seller.
Now imagen how smart they are in lying and hiding.

TE dont think you get huge improvment with this change, enjoy the killing the high horses of Dantes and if not, you still can say "it was the dante"*

*throw slat* *dance in salt* 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

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Posted

quit projecting

its a noticeable difference, which is what the original op asked

And its so small it could easily go the other way around... That sample size aint worth more than any tinfoil teory without numbers... The only thing you can say with 10 hits is, that hitting someone with weapon deals dmg, if you dont miss...

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Its simple. Boss gear> all other. Small.. big diff... does it matter? No. There is a difference, so if you want to have a better experience of this game get boss gear. As a player that had none and now only missing tree armor i can tell you there is a fukin BIG difference. Plain and simple. There is a reason that, in a game that everything is hidden one weapon costs 9 mil and the other 95 mil. 

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Posted

http://miragestep.blog113.fc2.com/blog-entry-371.html

Use website translation to read this

I'm not sure NA/EU has the same client, but I play in JP and many ppl have run tests and show that Dande has accuracy over Blue. I've also run a test myself with TRI Dande vs TRI Blue and Dande had more accuracy.

Don't worry Jack, ppl in here don't believe anything that's not served to them by Kakao staff ....

I bet many ppl would think Earth is actually flat if they were told so Oo

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Posted

Don't worry Jack, ppl in here don't believe anything that's not served to them by Kakao staff ....

I bet many ppl would think Earth is actually flat if they were told so Oo

believe it or not alot of ppl do think the earth is still flat :D 

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Posted

believe it or not alot of ppl do think the earth is still flat :D 

You realize you just said that to one of those flat-eathers? :D

They believe Earth is flat, bcs they cant see a curve with their eyes... :D As Arctic believes Dande has hidden accuracy bcs of 10 hits "test"... :D

I am not saying there is no possibility for acc to be there... I am just saying that anyone who believes its there bcs of 10-hit test is plain dumb... :D

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Posted

You realize you just said that to one of those flat-eathers? :D

They believe Earth is flat, bcs they cant see a curve with their eyes... :D As Arctic believes Dande has hidden accuracy bcs of 10 hits "test"... :D

I am not saying there is no possibility for acc to be there... I am just saying that anyone who believes its there bcs of 10-hit test is plain dumb... :D

i just play the game to play a game O.o im not a big hardcore player but i do try to push myself. but i mat that stage where my money cant keep up with my failures in enchanting xD 

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Posted

Thank you all for the information. It seems the safe way for me is to keep my TET ulti waken weapon for now. If however I will finally get the balls to go for enachnting a Dande to TET, I'll switch then. Otherwise I'll stick with my current weapon.

I can see there is big debate about same level comparison, but from what I can conclude TET ulti is slightly better (given the Human damage) than TRI Dande.

Thank you all again for helping me with my decision.

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Posted

-Dandy does not have accuracy. If you read under "Enhancement Effects: Increase Attack Power", it means youre getting bonus AP per enhancement that is NOT seen on the ap sheet. Note the ultimate also has this... but I guarantee you it is less than the dandy. Hence why people go for dandy.

That's just rubbish. What  "Enhancement Effects: Increase Attack Power" means is that when you enhance the Dandelion weapon, the AP goes up. There is no hiddan AP gain as well.

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Posted

Its simple. Boss gear> all other. Small.. big diff... does it matter? No. There is a difference, so if you want to have a better experience of this game get boss gear. As a player that had none and now only missing tree armor i can tell you there is a fukin BIG difference. Plain and simple. There is a reason that, in a game that everything is hidden one weapon costs 9 mil and the other 95 mil. 

Its actually simpler than that. Get what you can afford, when you can afford it, and fight what you enjoy killing or trying to kill. 

That about covers it.

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Posted (edited)

-snips

 

I'm not trying to convince anyone .
stay bad if you want , seriously.
just saying all those min/max theory is bullshit, if blue awakening was better than dandelion then it would be simply more expensive.

 

That's just rubbish. What  "Enhancement Effects: Increase Attack Power" means is that when you enhance the Dandelion weapon, the AP goes up. There is no hiddan AP gain as well.

^ item says Enhancement Effects: Increase Attack Power , guess what, when you enchant it, its AP goes up.

Edited by Sizer

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Posted

Its actually simpler than that. Get what you can afford, when you can afford it, and fight what you enjoy killing or trying to kill. 

That about covers it.

Covers what? I answered his question. You just spammed useless shit..

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Posted

That's just rubbish. What  "Enhancement Effects: Increase Attack Power" means is that when you enhance the Dandelion weapon, the AP goes up. There is no hiddan AP gain as well.

Then explain Kzarka's Enhancement effect: Accuracty increase... or Bhegs as well, youre just assuming that the ap enhancement is a shown one with the base ap increase

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Then explain Kzarka's Enhancement effect: Accuracty increase... or Bhegs as well, youre just assuming that the ap enhancement is a shown one with the base ap increase

Cuz AP is client side and was already datamined and acc is server side... So we know all the AP we get is from that mentioned increase... There is special hidden dmg on some weapons (kutum) that is server side as well.. But no mention whatsoever about any serverside hidden AP... Now put off your tinfoil hat and go play with google a bit,...

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Posted (edited)

Covers what? I answered his question. You just spammed useless shit..

Yes. you are correct. All of your words are golden wisdom that flow from the heavens and all of mine are shit. Lighten up already.

Edited by Grizabella

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