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Tamer changes 26 April

73 posts in this topic

Posted

VL doesnt come with guard on cd.

Oops I meant off cd. Still relevant.

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Posted

Ultimate echo skill is longer only some frames , lets say not more than 0,3-0,5sec. But during this time u are in SA , Plus you can cancel it whenever you want.

What is more important is that the hit box of ultimate echo is like triple on normal echo.

 

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Posted

Ultimate echo skill is longer only some frames , lets say not more than 0,3-0,5sec. But during this time u are in SA , Plus you can cancel it whenever you want.

What is more important is that the hit box of ultimate echo is like triple on normal echo.

 

The hit box is only larger on the second half of the skill. Still good though.

 

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Posted (edited)

After Initial Tests.(New Echo vs Old Echo)

Pros:

Alot More Damage in a 1:1 Ratio

Huge Range Increase(Hits in a wide cone now instead of a line)

Extended Super Armor(Slightly)

Cons:

Loses Back Attack Damage

Can't be used more than once consecutively(too slow)

Slower Weapon Switching via Echo

Thoughts:

Using Ult Echo seems to trade the back attack damage Echo had for the second frontal hit.(It doesn't hit behind you anymore)  I'd say this is a positive overall change since I doubt the majority of Tamers knew how to take advantage of the back attack damage.

The Cone vs Line is a HUGE buff  and really does alleviate some of the desync issues many people face.(line atks are tough to hit with desync) 

 Locking Ult Echo would cause you to just be using a nerfed Echo which probably isn't a good thing however that's relative to your AP.(More AP more viable)

Also using Normal Echo with the Ult locked feels different now, maybe I'm reaching but it just feels slower, back attack seems more defined.

You cannot use Double or Triple Echos effectively anymore if you do not lock the Ult. 

As someone who switches weapons almost exclusively with Echo and PowPow the slower weapon switch REALLY sucks.

Conclusion:

I want to like the change but I REALLY wish you could control whether you wanted to use the Ult Echo or not WITHOUT locking it(Maybe you can, if someone has figured this out feel free to enlighten me).  If that were the case I would say this was a definite buff but as far as I can tell you can't so its really difficult to judge the change.  NEEDS MORE TESTING *puts on white robe*

Its a Buff, albeit it increases Tamer Skill cap a little more, its a definite buff and my previous analysis was wrong.  *Takes off white robe*

 

 

Edited by Ginos

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Posted

If you put regular echo on your bar does the ult still fire?

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Posted (edited)

If you put regular echo on your bar does the ult still fire?

Yes. 100% of the time even if you just tap it.  You CAN cancel it midway with LBP though.

Edited by Ginos

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Posted

The hit box is only larger on the second half of the skill. Still good though.

 

First one is larger too. I tested it myself. The whole echo pierce has larger hitbox

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Posted

 Locking Ult Echo would cause you to just be using a nerfed Echo which probably isn't a good thing however that's relative to your AP.(More AP more viable)

I didn't know you could lock it to revert back to the old echo. It's very useful for testing. Thank you for pointing this out. 

Yes. 100% of the time even if you just tap it.  You CAN cancel it midway with LBP though.

Also, you can cancel after the first strike of echo with the side dashes and Q-guard.

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Posted (edited)

As someone who switches weapons almost exclusively with Echo and PowPow the slower weapon switch REALLY sucks.

Yes. 100% of the time even if you just tap it.  You CAN cancel it midway with LBP though.

I think the reason it REALLY sucks is because you think ultimate echo can only be canceled midway.

The hotkey can be be instantly canceled, and switching is not any slower, or faster, than before.

You might be pressing the keys too slow. Here is how I do it. Echo is bound to 2, but you can bind it to whatever key your middle finger can reach.From preawakened stance:

  1. press 2, shift, and space simultaneously but put more pressure into the finger on 2. Instant swap to LBP
  2. press 2, and q simultaneously but put more pressure into the finger on 2. Instant swap to guard.

You can do the same to instantly go from awakening to preawakening by using the first method but with a trample quickslot. Or after leaves dropping pressing shift+space simultaneously but with more pressure on space.

 

 

Edited by Kentigem

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Posted (edited)

 

I think the reason it REALLY sucks is because you think ultimate echo can only be canceled midway.

The hotkey can be be instantly canceled, and switching is not any slower, or faster, than before.

I'm aware you can cancel it instantly but it IS in fact slower if you don't cancel it using LBP, which limits the ways you can play things out.  The New Echo either way you use it feels like a 2 hit attack albeit faster without the ultimate where as the old one felt like one fluid solid attack.  I just feel it sucks because it once again sets another limitation on the ways you can play the class.  Last thing Tamer needs, IMO.  I didnt know about the Q cancel though, definitely some helpful info.  Seems to salvage the situation quite a bit :D

Edited by Ginos

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Posted (edited)

I'm aware you can cancel it instantly but it IS in fact slower if you don't cancel it using LBP, which limits the ways you can play things out.  The New Echo either way you use it feels like a 2 hit attack albeit faster without the ultimate where as the old one felt like one fluid solid attack.  I just feel it sucks because it once again sets another limitation on the ways you can play the class.  Last thing Tamer needs, IMO.  I didnt know about the Q cancel though, definitely some helpful info.  Seems to salvage the situation quite a bit :D

Your mind is playing tricks on you, the skill is not slower than it was before. The back damage has always lagged behind, and this is more apparent when it is concentrated in the front.

Stand between two training dummies and use the old version. The time it takes to strike the one behind you is the same as the full length of ultimate echo.

The only thing that changed was the damage of each strike, and the back damage's hitbox position/size, ie front>back became front>front. Both forms have the spacing of a 2 hit attack.

Edited by Kentigem

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Posted (edited)

Your mind is playing tricks on you, the skill is not slower than it was before. The back damage has always lagged behind, and this is more apparent when it is concentrated in the front.

Stand between two training dummies and use the old version. The time it takes to strike the one behind you is the same as the full length of ultimate echo.

The only thing that changed was the damage of each strike, and the back damage's hitbox position/size, ie front>back became front>front. Both forms have the spacing of a 2 hit attack.

You could be right.  Is there anywhere I can actually test the old Echo?  Now i'm super curious lol

Edited by Ginos

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Posted

While in PvP I haven't really noticed much difference, there's absolutely a huge buff for Tamer in PvE. I used to run Pila with 187 AAP w/ Incense Trinket and get 1800 drops an hour, after the patch I'm getting 2200-2300. 

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Posted

This makes sense if you fight with most mobs in front of you, rather than behind you.

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Posted

You could be right.  Is there anywhere I can actually test the old Echo?  Now i'm super curious lol

if you lock the ultimate you will use the old version.

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Posted

My point is they took away a major part of our kit, ultimate pierce doesn't make up for that in any way. Whether you use void a lot or not, they still have been taking from our kit constantly without giving much of anything. Ultimate echo literally makes it so you hit both times in front rather then front and back. If you think that is a new strong attack that makes up for a huge take out in our kit then idk what to say. 

Tamers who siege all day are waiting for something to make the class a more viable option in large scale pvp. I get it, its small scale class.... but the changes they should be putting in are changes that make a class that isn't viable in both worlds, viable in both worlds. Most top tier siege classes are good in small scale and largescale. That's what they should be aiming for with every class in my opinion. But anyone who does largescale pvp with a tamer knows that tamer is limiting. 

Its shitty playing the class you like and knowing that the biggest upgrade you can make right now is a reroll to a meta class for sieges lol. Tamer is good small scale, lacking in large scale. Anyone who primarily does large scale PvP as a tamer can tell you that the class is limiting. 

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Witch/wiz are pretty shit 1v1 compared to..... kuno/ninja/tamer..... get in grab they are done they get fcked hard open world.  If your life in bdo revolves soley around siege.... whatever I guess.

 

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Posted

While in PvP I haven't really noticed much difference, there's absolutely a huge buff for Tamer in PvE. I used to run Pila with 187 AAP w/ Incense Trinket and get 1800 drops an hour, after the patch I'm getting 2200-2300. 

It's in PvP aswel but your pet has to hit your enemies.
Pet damage scales with AP as of last patch. The damage is actually ridiculous.

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Posted

I have noticed Heilang is a bit buffer.  

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Posted (edited)

It's in PvP aswel but your pet has to hit your enemies.
Pet damage scales with AP as of last patch. The damage is actually ridiculous.

Oh interesting. I'll try an hour run at Pila with my Kutum and see what's up. The Pila mobs are really evasion heavy, so Incense trinket does more damage to them from my testing.

 

EDIT: TRI Kutum with 2x AP crystals still performs worse than PRI Incense with Crit crystal at Pila. Same buffs, same rotation. 

Edited by FoxGod

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Posted (edited)

Oh interesting. I'll try an hour run at Pila with my Kutum and see what's up. The Pila mobs are really evasion heavy, so Incense trinket does more damage to them from my testing.

 

EDIT: TRI Kutum with 2x AP crystals still performs worse than PRI Incense with Crit crystal at Pila. Same buffs, same rotation. 

i get torn the ----- up in Pila Ku cuz of the innate magic debuff

Edited by boogersugar

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Posted

i get torn the ----- up in Pila Ku cuz of the innate magic debuff

Yea those follower dudes can really mess you up at night. I first ran Pila when I had 250~ DP. I was doable but scary. With 263 you only need HP potions with those random magic back attacks, and with 283 you don't really need to use HP pots at all. 

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Posted

Why is it not Ok to have VL at rank one? You still get cc and Frontal Block. 

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Posted

Why is it not Ok to have VL at rank one? You still get cc and Frontal Block. 

You need rank 3 to cancel it.

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