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Decided to make my money farming Ogres long time ago

46 posts in this topic

Posted

Will try and give all examples with one item - Ogre Ring. Same applies to all drops in the game (sort of) in my opinion.


Something strange happened again and I am frustrated, that's why I'm writing this. Will also share some maybe "interesting" observations that might interest some of you. Lets start with the Ogres:

I. Chapter One: Le Ogres

As most/many of you I also started playing when the game came out to EU/US. As soon as I reached lvl XX back then and killed my first Ogre my fate was set - I will farm them until I get an Ogre Ring. Well, I got mine after 2 weeks back then and was happy as a penguin ( cursing is not allowed, let's use other words).
Since then I've had a lot of drops, but things got weird last December when after 2 months of rest I had just come back to BDO. Back then there was an event box (I missed it of course) that gave so many of you the much desired Ogre Ring. I did not get to the box, but went farming Ogres instead. Because I was a returning player I got a 7 Day Kama buff. Well, in the 7 days I got 7 to 9 Ogre Rings (dunno exactly, but a lot). That allowed me to buy a Dande and a Kzarka (there were also sooo many Kzarkas on the MP when I got back, weird, weird indeed).
Now, after leveling some more alts to 56-57 to have more choice of what to play I came back to the Ogres last week.

Now the fun part starts - I haven't yet gotten an Ogre Ring after thousands of kills (which is normal, even with a Kama buff), but 3 or 4 times, including 5 minutes ago, the following happened:
1. I am alone on a channel for hours. From time to time people come and go. But 3-4 times when I've already killed 9 out of the 10 Ogres and make my way to the 10th, I see a person killing it and getting a direct Ogre Ring drop. Now, whatever, who cares, RNG, blah, blah, you are all correct, but.... Well, I no longer believe anything is RNG OR % Based in this game ( as in - if I keep killing them, I will get one, because there is a 0.001% chance that I get one - WRONG, there is no 0.001% chance of anything. Let them prove me wrong). I think it's all a very well written algorithm that decides things for us that has nothing to do with percents. So in a way it's random if you get a thing, mostly because when the algorithm decides it's your turn to get it, you MUST BE THERE at that exact moment. I cannot explain it otherwise, but in short The Game Is Rigged and I know of so many people that killed 6-7 thousand and still got no drop. So, I am finished with my frustrations, lets get to the interesting stuff.

II. Chapter Two - We Never Had A Chance

Are you one of those that reads all this crap about lucky chars, lucky guild mates, lucky blah blah that always get loot and doesn't believe it? Well, I was one of those too, I never believed that stuff. I always thought we all had the same chance to get a drop, because I always believed that drops were % based and not decided by millions of if...else statements in some algorithm. Lemme tell you a story.

My main, my sorc, that I have been playing since start has never ever gotten a boss drop ( no Kzarka, Tree Belt, Tree Armor, Bhegs e.t.c). When I say NEVER, I mean never and nothing (except some Livertos of course, but who counts those). But as you know you kind of get tired of the same skills after you play for so long, so I made and leveled some twinks to 56/57 last month (liked the DK a lot, so I play and farm with her now). Well, one of those chars kid of has been mysteriously lucky, when I say *mysteriously* I mean WHAT THE PENGUIN.........
You want to know what he got in his first days of reaching 56 and awak? Here it is:
- 3x Tree Spirit Belts
- 4x Kzarka Boxes ( still keep one of those)
- 2x Dande boxes
- 1x Kutum (first and last time I did Kutum)
- 15 x Mark of Shadow from Mudster ( almost every time I did Mudster, well every time actually...)
- 10-15 x Awakened Weapon Boxes
- 10-15x Liverto Boxes
RNG you say? Are you sure? Read chapter I :) Thing is, I leveled this char to see what the fuzz was all about and to see if I liked the playstyle, and I didn't, so I do not play him anymore. I also got the drops with 143, 171, 184 and 207 AP on this char, so it kind of wasn't AP based or anything if you think I had a lot or something. 

Point of chapter 2? Guess what my DK is getting with 207 AP on boss fights - 3 Hunter Seals, 60k silver. My sorc you ask - 3 hunter Seals, 60k Silver. My warr - 3 hunter seals, 60k silver. All my chars have 201 to 207 AP because, you guessed it, the one char kind of equipped them all...

I do not ask for anything tooooooo big (I think and I hope) I am asking you to kind of ask the devs and demand or push to agree that all chars/accounts need to have the same chance of getting somewhere in this game. I for example am not enjoying and not playing the lucky char since DK Awak. came out, does this mean I will never ever again see an Ogre Ring drop or a Boss gear/weap? Hidden stats, ninja nerfed/upped stats on gear, boss drops, enchants - don't we all deserve to have the same base chance of getting all of these? Where is the problem with that? Am I supposed to play a boring wizard that I leveled just to see what the fuzz was all about and never played/will play again get all the loot? What if I never leveled this particular lucky character, was I going to be penguined for life as so many others are? In my humble opinion an Ogre should have a 0.000Something % chance of dropping an Ogre Ring, same for all of us.

That's it, I am going back to farm some more Ogres, because I decided to make my money farming Ogres long time ago...

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Posted

You can say the same for enchanting, it takes me 100+ stacks to tet, others get tet in under 70 stacks consistently

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Posted

Nicely played, sir. Allow me to demonstrate my real life condition at this moment illustrated by a random string of characters: HAHAHAHHAHAHA :))

Read it, he is basically saying the same thing but explaining it way better :D

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Posted

You can say the same for enchanting, it takes me 100+ stacks to tet, others get tet in under 70 stacks consistently

This I agree with. I've been fairly lucky enchanting, but have HORRID luck with drops. I've never had any boss drops or box drops or anything either. I did get all my tri rings/earrings in under 40 stacks each, with at most 1 fail each. My tri neck, 0 backup, 0 fails. The 2 times I did Tet Roulette, I got both Tet Dande at 55 and 72 FS. Haven't attempted since, but I should I guess. I seem to have "luck" with enchanting, and leveling horses. Anything else? Nahhhh.

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Posted

The question is, would it be random if everyone got the same?

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Posted

Thousands of ogres... 

 

I bet youve barely killed 200 

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Posted

Remember the random HP/MP per character

I would bet my house that there is a random "luck" modifier built into each character you create

Maybe it's related to horoscope you choose I don't know but some characters I have just flat out suck for loot and others constantly get good drops

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Posted (edited)

I busted the scale on some "rare" items.  One of the problems with Ogre rings is that it's nearly impossible to get a real sample size even if you farm them for months.  If you use a rare item from something you can literally kill 100'000's of you can get a better representation.

After killing into the millions for "semi rare" drops like Seraph Necklace you can see, the more you farm, the more you get.  You might have days, even weeks, (full time only) where it's just not happening, but the randomness appears to balance out and be just that, random.

However, even random over Months/Years removes the random aspect and becomes more "Norm".  If you hunt (x) mob that you can 1-2 shot for 1,000 hours you are nearly guaranteed to get (x) amount of items.

 

The real messed up part of BDO is those items that took 250 hours each, you might need 4 of them for TRI or 60 of them.  When you multiply that by 250 hours per it becomes a serious issue.

Edited by feebleone
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Posted

Thousands of ogres... 

 

I bet youve barely killed 200 

You are correct, just checked, 1700+ the last 6 days, 45000 in a year. Guess you don't know how I know how much I have killed? There is an easy way, play the game a bit instead of trolling and you will find out, unless you suck so bad at math and don't your 2+2s. 

Boring and unfunny trolle m8...

I busted the scale on some "rare" items.  One of the problems with Ogre rings is that it's nearly impossible to get a real sample size even if you farm them for months.  If you use a rare item from something you can literally kill 100'000's of you can get a better representation.

After killing into the millions for "semi rare" drops like Seraph Necklace you can see, the more you farm, the more you get.  You might have days, even weeks, (full time only) where it's just not happening, but the randomness appears to balance out and be just that, random.

However, even random over Months/Years removes the random aspect and becomes more "Norm".  If you hunt (x) mob that you can 1-2 shot for 1,000 hours you are nearly guaranteed to get (x) amount of items.

I get the math, thing is I no longer believe there is any math behind it, think it's more or less being decided for us and that makes me sad. 

If a person wants to make money @ pirates he can, if he wants to level in a circle he can, but if he wants to farm for a particular item then no. I mean it's my char, my sick leave = my time, why can't i decide how to make my money :( Everything has to be controlled by the company and that is boring and unfair (at least it frels like it).

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Posted

You are correct, just checked, 1700+ the last 6 days, 45000 in a year. Guess you don't know how I know how much I have killed? There is an easy way, play the game a bit instead of trolling and you will find out, unless you suck so bad at math and don't your 2+2s. 

Boring and unfunny trolle m8...

show us you shattered rings 

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Posted

You can say the same for enchanting, it takes me 100+ stacks to tet, others get tet in under 70 stacks consistently

May I know how much did you spend? I got a friend who spent thousands of dollars and being consistently lucky on enchanting.

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Posted

Some guys are only satisfied that it's REAL random, when everyone gets absolutely the same.

Sounds funny, but that's what they really think. Including the tinfoil OP who thinks he found a conspiracy algorithm, based on "3-4 times it happened that somebody else got an ogre while i was farming".

Randomness doesn't only exist in small variances. You can easily have huge streaks of luck or bad luck without problem.

Imagine it like a randomly generated Minecraft world. There is not only flat meadow with some bumps. There are huge mountains, and deep oceans. You might walk 2 hours in one direction and still don't see an ocean, another player might see only ocean.

That's nothing "rigged", it's still just random. With low chances for expensive items, there will be big differences in what players drop.

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Posted (edited)

Hi guys. I'd like to comment on this and see what you guys think. Here is my gear for reference (no BM):

2ac52a11f2.jpg

This is what many would consider the "reasonable" gear cap, essentially. I could go for a TRI Tung and a TET Nouver and go up to 250 AP. Thats really the only feasible upgrade for me at this point. After that where would I go?

See once you get that gear that you want so bad, you lose drastic amounts of motivation to play anywhere near the amount of time you played when trying to get said gear in the first place. Gear and the want to obtain it is what pushes many players to stay invested in the game. If they made it too much easier, they would essentially cut the lifespan of the game as well. Not only that, but it would spit in the faces for those who got this kind of gear the "hard way".

Then some will say "well its rng and you got carried", which takes away from my achievements. Its true, I did hit PRI>DUO>TRI on my Ogre Ring in 1 attempt, but do you know how many Basi belts I had to blow up? Well over 5 bil worth I'll tell you that. It's all apart of the game.

Game gets pretty boring when there's no meat on the end of the stick to chase. Look @ every other MMO (except WoW) if you don't believe me.

Edited by NotHero
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Posted

The rng in this game makes it difficult to tell if it really is rng or if there's some "luck" setting. It's all anecdotal evidence unless people have been keeping stats from the beginning to compare to one another.

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Posted

After a year of playing the game and more than 4'000€ invested into the game, I will also join OP in his train of thought, with all due respect. I have a good background in terms of theorycrafting and competitive games (top 1 EU seasonal Diablo 3 player, top 1 FR / top 50 world Gears of War, Rainbow Six Vegas cup winner, etc.) and have lately been interested in philosphy, more specifically determinism (all hail our senpai Spinoza, everybody should read The Ethics).

My research has lead me to get into the basics of how RNG is coded in games and other systems such as lotteries, poker websites and such.

Long story short, as long as you don't have access to the source code and the machines running it, you can never truly know how anything works. BDO is no exception and theories such as timestamps no longer seem far fetched to me.

Here are some good reads if you have spare time :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generator_attack

https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/124233/why-is-it-impossible-to-produce-truly-random-numbers

And more specifically related to the gaming industry, the whole "Wi Flag Case" in Asheron's Call. Basically, an error in the code made it so people had worse RNG than others depending on the time they created their character; the agro on mobs was linked to an algorithm taking into account the character's SessionID and CharacterID, two values that the end client have no influence on.

http://asheron.wikia.com/wiki/Wi_Flag

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Posted

Hi guys. I'd like to comment on this and see what you guys think. Here is my gear for reference (no BM):

2ac52a11f2.jpg

This is what many would consider the "reasonable" gear cap, essentially. I could go for a TRI Tung and a TET Nouver and go up to 250 AP. Thats really the only feasible upgrade for me at this point. After that where would I go?

See once you get that gear that you want so bad, you lose drastic amounts of motivation to play anywhere near the amount of time you played when trying to get said gear in the first place. Gear and the want to obtain it is what pushes many players to stay invested in the game. If they made it too much easier, they would essentially cut the lifespan of the game as well. Not only that, but it would spit in the faces for those who got this kind of gear the "hard way".

Then some will say "well its rng and you got carried", which takes away from my achievements. Its true, I did hit PRI>DUO>TRI on my Ogre Ring in 1 attempt, but do you know how many Basi belts I had to blow up? Well over 5 bil worth I'll tell you that. It's all apart of the game.

Game gets pretty boring when there's no meat on the end of the stick to chase. Look @ every other MMO (except WoW) if you don't believe me.

Dam bro too bad the guy you sold your account to got the tri ogre before you snaked him 

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Posted

Dam bro too bad the guy you sold your account to got the tri ogre before you snaked him 

That trashtalking lmao

On another note, still missing 20DP on TET bossgear, accuracy on Kzarka, and TET offhand, he's only halfway done.

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Posted (edited)

On another note, still missing 20DP on TET bossgear, accuracy on Kzarka, and TET offhand, he's only halfway done.

Those are easy compared to accessories. All it takes is meme frags and weapon/armor stones. You call that halfway? Lmao.

Edited by NotHero
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Posted (edited)

That trashtalking lmao

On another note, still missing 20DP on TET bossgear, accuracy on Kzarka, and TET offhand, he's only halfway done.

i mean i have proof so i wouldn't consider it trash talk 

Edited by AquaSting

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Posted

Some guys are only satisfied that it's REAL random, when everyone gets absolutely the same.

Sounds funny, but that's what they really think. Including the tinfoil OP who thinks he found a conspiracy algorithm, based on "3-4 times it happened that somebody else got an ogre while i was farming".

Randomness doesn't only exist in small variances. You can easily have huge streaks of luck or bad luck without problem.

Imagine it like a randomly generated Minecraft world. There is not only flat meadow with some bumps. There are huge mountains, and deep oceans. You might walk 2 hours in one direction and still don't see an ocean, another player might see only ocean.

That's nothing "rigged", it's still just random. With low chances for expensive items, there will be big differences in what players drop.

And there is me waiting for Bheg and disproving everything I wrote with a screenshot...
Just finished Kzarka, Mudster, Karanda, Dim Tree and Red Nose on my tinfoiled "lucky" char and got no loot, no loot at all as you can see on the screenshot... 
Some guys can't seem to see further away than their nose, I feel sorry for those people. Keep trolling and insulting, should get you ahead in life.

tinfoil.jpg

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Posted (edited)

 

Those are easy compared to accessories. All it takes is meme frags and weapon/armor stones. You call that halfway? Lmao.

Think you need more than that 

Edited by AquaSting

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Posted

And there is me waiting for Bheg and disproving everything I wrote with a screenshot...
Just finished Kzarka, Mudster, Karanda, Dim Tree and Red Nose on my tinfoiled "lucky" char and got no loot, no loot at all as you can see on the screenshot... 
Some guys can't seem to see further away than their nose, I feel sorry for those people. Keep trolling and insulting, should get you ahead in life.

tinfoil.jpg

thats some good rng man

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Posted

And there is me waiting for Bheg and disproving everything I wrote with a screenshot...
Just finished Kzarka, Mudster, Karanda, Dim Tree and Red Nose on my tinfoiled "lucky" char and got no loot, no loot at all as you can see on the screenshot... 
Some guys can't seem to see further away than their nose, I feel sorry for those people. Keep trolling and insulting, should get you ahead in life.

tinfoil.jpg

Sorry, I can't see a lot in that screenshot, except your lamp is expired. It's unbearable to keep such a thing in an inventory, how can you play like that?

Or wait.. that must be the trick.

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Posted

show us you shattered rings 

You do realize we are able to exchange them for rings from a recent patch, right? Wasn't like this in the beginning, why would I keep them?
I can show you around 50 of those that I got from January 2017 to until now + 8 Soiled I opened the last 5 days and the 2 Soiled
I keep unopened, but what does that prove except that you are trolling too? I am NOT talking about Soiled drops, I am talking about direct Ogre Ring drops...

Sorry, I can't see a lot in that screenshot, except your lamp is expired. It's unbearable to keep such a thing in an inventory, how can you play like that?

Or wait.. that must be the trick.

Again, here is another tip for you: Keep 1 lamp equipped and 1 in the inventory next to the oil. This way you can just open the inv, press the oil and charge the unequipped lamp without having to unequip the one you probably have and look for it for 1 min... See, I just gave you a free advice. Wait, you do know you can charge them with oil, do you even...? Do you actually play DBO? I can clearly see a Kzarka box, 2 Livertos (+ 1 from Bheg just now), 2 Awakening boxes, 1 mil silver, ~ 40 Blackstones, Karanda Aura and some gems. If you learn the icons it will help you longterm too. 
Enough with the trolls?

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