• Announcements

    • IMPORTANT - REACH US IN THE NEW FORUM   05/04/2017

      Ladies and gentlemen ATTENTION please:
      It's time to move into a new house!
        As previously announced, from now on IT WON'T BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE THREADS OR REPLY in the old forums. From now on the old forums will be readable only. If you need to move/copy/migrate any post/material from here, feel free to contact the staff in the new home. We’ll be waiting for you in the NEW Forums!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php

      *New features and amazing tools are waiting for you, even more is yet to come in the future.. just like world exploration in BDO leads to new possibilities.
      So don't be afraid about changes, click the link above and follow us!
      Enjoy and see you on the other side!  
    • WICHTIG: Das Forum ist umgezogen!   05/04/2017

      Damen und Herren, wir bitten um Eure Aufmerksamkeit, es ist an der Zeit umzuziehen!
        Wie wir bereits angekündigt hatten, ist es ab sofort nicht mehr möglich, neue Diskussionen in diesem Forum zu starten. Um Euch Zeit zu geben, laufende Diskussionen abzuschließen, könnt Ihr noch für zwei Wochen in offenen Diskussionen antworten. Danach geht dieses Forum hier in den Ruhestand und das NEUE FORUM übernimmt vollständig.
      Das Forum hier bleibt allerdings erhalten und lesbar.   Neue und verbesserte Funktionen warten auf Euch im neuen Forum und wir arbeiten bereits an weiteren Erweiterungen.
      Wir sehen uns auf der anderen Seite!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php Update:
      Wie angekündigt könen ab sofort in diesem Forum auch keine neuen Beiträge mehr veröffentlicht werden.
    • IMPORTANT: Le nouveau forum   05/04/2017

      Aventurières, aventuriers, votre attention s'il vous plaît, il est grand temps de déménager!
      Comme nous vous l'avons déjà annoncé précédemment, il n'est désormais plus possible de créer de nouveau sujet ni de répondre aux anciens sur ce bon vieux forum.
      Venez visiter le nouveau forum!
      https://community.blackdesertonline.com
      De nouvelles fonctionnalités ainsi que de nouveaux outils vous attendent dès à présent et d'autres arriveront prochainement! N'ayez pas peur du changement et rejoignez-nous! Amusez-vous bien et a bientôt dans notre nouveau chez nous

Let's Talk Gear And Controlled Market


155 posts in this topic

Posted

Let's begin by stating that a controlled market only works for for high quantity, high demand resources. As most of us know some gear is often times High cost, Low demand. Lets take the DUO:Estique Shuriken for example, an item that has for a verrrry long time been minimum price and will never sell because it cannot go lower. This is the time when this controlled market concept fails, by not allowing the price to drop to mean the consumer price the items will eventually build up and still have no demand.

 

Now the next issue i've often noticed in this game is, they make it difficult to sell for a loss for the sake of "Just getting rid of it" not having functions like this, (that other games have) makes it difficult to have a healthy supply and demand.

 

My suggestion?

Let the armor/accessory/weapons market run as a free market. Will things be chaotic for a while? Yes. Will many people make gigantic profit? Yes, will some of us make a giant loss? Yes. With a profession like trading in the game why can't I do a legitimate play of the market? Yes, you may think that the rich will keep getting richer and richer. However in all games if you play the market right, you'll be rich as well. Not only that but when players run the market, just about everyone wins. The players can control the buy and sell prices and things will have a true worth. Now I know some will say "This will make people sell less outfits since people will be making more" well guess what PA, you'll like this part because with your controlled market prices outfits will be jackshit cheap, value packs will be jackshit cheap (Unless you decide to scale their value through some complex algorithm.) But by doing that not only does PA make more money, we can make more money to get things in the game that matter more. Now some of you may ask. "What happens when people buy up everything in the controlled market?" Well that's what happens when a player based economy rolls in, there will be shortages which in turn drives prices up and down. Eventually the controlled market will need to go. But it should. It's better to have shortages and high prices than to have low prices and too much (especially in a controlled market where you can further drive down the cost to fix the issue)

Lastly, if this is truly a controlled market it needs to be controlled more to remedy the issues we're seeing now, someone needs to check on the high quantity zero demand items (Red Nose Armors, Just about any Kuno/Ninja/Tamer gear, +15 armors) (which in turn helps new players get some better starter gear at a decent cost, and those who sell junk fail stack items get more purchases.) more often and drive the cost lower until people decide to buy them, then over time drive it back up to let us actually profit from the market.

 

TL;DR I feel like that since this game was released towards a western market as well it should have more of our actual economic systems in place, or have the controlled market to have a bit more control in it to remedy the issues.

 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Now the next issue i've often noticed in this game is, they make it difficult to sell for a loss for the sake of "Just getting rid of it"

Is there a particular reason you'd rather not define Merching it (to NPC) as "Sell"ing it? 

 

 

if you play the market right, you'll be rich as well.

Ah yes the myth of the... http://www.temporarilyembarrassedmillionaires.org/ 

...the #1 goto Snakeoil of all Charlatans who also suffer from Dunning-Kruger in thinking they could Manipulate their way to the top with the best of them if the pesky System would just let the lazy rabble be ground up into bacon bits   (if you were as clever as you believe yourself to be, you'd already be doing this Professionally and skating right around every hard coded limitation they put in place)

Edited by iller
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

So players can sell boss gear/weapon with super high price which 99% of players can't afford?

So gold sellers can trade silver like nothing but thin air?

So you can spend IRL money to buy everything because you are leeching your parents?

Either you have something need to be sold or you want to make a big margin for some items you have right now.

Let's say PA followed your suggestions, I bet you will come back later after few months to complain about why everything is so expensive because you can't afford them.

You are this kind of person who cry a lot and think the whole world should be running around you.

Edited by Celestial Being
3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

you seem to be new here... Do you have an idea of how much a piece of Bis Equip would cost your noob ass today if prices were free?

I don't either really since I can't count past a few hundred millions, but certainly it would drive you away faster that the current system. That'd be a bunch of estique shurikens you'd have to sell at 15k/piece

And the higher the prices, the more margin with the vendor night, and that certainly wouldn't benefit a newbie with a pool of 40 energy.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

So players can sell boss gear/weapon with super high price which 99% of players can't afford?

Either you have something need to be sold or you want to make a big margin for some items you have right now.

Let's say PA followed your suggestions, I bet you will come back later after few months to complain about why everything is so expensive because you can't afford them.

You are this kind of person who cry a lot and think the whole world should be running around you.

nope

everything is already absurdly expensive, the preorder price for high demand items are easily many times the price tag. opening up won't make the price go up, it will actually make price go down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Mostly the only good thing a controlled market is for in this game is it helps prevent gold farming bots gold selling

As a system just like in real life, controlled economies usually result in being suboptimal or horrible

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

As somebody who came from the marketplace hell game of Tera.. how about no.

These topics always just sound like a bunch of greed.

Open markets would just lead to overpriced monopolies.

Edited by PandoraRose
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

As others have stated, controlled markets can be bad in real life. But in the game its done wonders in eliminating almost all gold sellers.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

As others have stated, controlled markets can be bad in real life. But in the game its done wonders in eliminating almost all gold sellers.

controlled markets actually do have supply, in a truly controlled market u can buy anything at any time at the listed price. There is no concept of supply and demand, no rarity crap.   A true controlled market is an NPC shop where u can sell and buy everything at fixed price, BDO's economy is not really controlled, it's rather just a big fat failure that has the cons of both capitalist and communist economy, while having none of the pros.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

nope

everything is already absurdly expensive, the preorder price for high demand items are easily many times the price tag. opening up won't make the price go up, it will actually make price go down.

these items are never in stock, and when one is listed up they are bid on by hundreds of players and instantly bought out. the prices would not go down - simple supply and demand. in fact, prices will skyrocket.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

these items are never in stock, and when one is listed up they are bid on by hundreds of players and instantly bought out. the prices would not go down - simple supply and demand. in fact, prices will skyrocket.

nope

price has already skyrocketed

the preorder is a cancerous system as there is only one winner and the guy has to be the highest bidder. Can anything get worse? Impossible

if u free up the price more ppl will actually sell so price has no where to go but down

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

So players can sell boss gear/weapon with super high price which 99% of players can't afford?

At least then the price will reflect the rarity of the item.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

nope

price has already skyrocketed

the preorder is a cancerous system as there is only one winner and the guy has to be the highest bidder. Can anything get worse? Impossible

if u free up the price more ppl will actually sell so price has no where to go but down

Questions o/

What prevent people to not sell at current price? making it stagnant?

What prevent people to sell it at maximum affordable price if none are in stock?

What prevent people to use my first question after my second?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

nope

everything is already absurdly expensive, the preorder price for high demand items are easily many times the price tag. opening up won't make the price go up, it will actually make price go down.

There are many players in this game with nothing to do but 10+ billions of raw silver in their storage, and they are are also the players get most of rare items. With free market, they can control the market easily, they have the resources to buy in all of a certain hot item then hold the stock or put them up with unreasonable higher prices. Eventually they will get richer and richer and others will quit the game as they can't be competitive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

nope

price has already skyrocketed

the preorder is a cancerous system as there is only one winner and the guy has to be the highest bidder. Can anything get worse? Impossible

if u free up the price more ppl will actually sell so price has no where to go but down

At least with the current system, people who don't make 100m a day can have a chance at buying gear.

Under YOUR suggestion, unless you can pay the listed 1 bil pricetag, you're SOL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

And for information, the max silver people can have by storage is 2^64.

I let you calculate and look at what would be considered pocket money for those who achieve that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

There are many players in this game with nothing to do but 10+ billions of raw silver in their storage, and they are are also the players get most of rare items. With free market, they can control the market easily, they have the resources to buy in all of a certain hot item then hold the stock or put them up with unreasonable higher prices. Eventually they will get richer and richer and others will quit the game as they can't be competitive.

nope 

doesnt work that way

10 bil silver is not actually a lot u buy a TET Ogre and poof it's almost gone(well it's not like u can buy it anyways)

the rich idiots in KR and JP have easily like over 100 bil look at their gears 280+AP if u convert that into preorder price that's like easily over 200 bil or more

the problems with the preorder system are

1. The money that seller gets is abysmally few, so there's like zero sellers

2. The highest bidder puts up insane amount of money that very very few others can keep up

as how it works today, for a rare item the price tag says 500, but nobody is gonna sell the rare item for 500. The highest bidder puts up 10000, nobody else can afford 10000, but the highest bidder cannot buy his shit cuz nobody ever sells. So the preorder price is stuck at 10000 forever, the rich idiot gets mad cuz he can't buy his shit, guess what he's gonna do? He puts up 20000 the next day LOL.

now if u open up the price, there's this douche who would pay 20000 for ur item, so everybody would jump in and start to sell, but guess what? Only 1 guy gets to sell his shit at 20000 cuz nobody else can afford 20000, actually nobody else can even afford 10000. So after the 1st guy who bought it for 20000 the next guy that wants to buy says I only pay 8000 cuz that's how much I have, the sellers have no choice but to sell it at 8000, then the next purchaser would say no I can only afford 4000... so the price will keep dropping until it gets to some where reasonable, for maybe 1000-2000.

Edited by FapperJack

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

At least with the current system, people who don't make 100m a day can have a chance at buying gear.

Under YOUR suggestion, unless you can pay the listed 1 bil pricetag, you're SOL.

if player to player trading is a thing, not long you have to worry about having high amount of silver, now you have to deal with real life currency.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

the sellers have no choice to buy to sell it at 8000

What specifically is causing the seller to have no choice?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

What specifically is causing the seller to have no choice?

cuz nobody else would pay more than 8000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

cuz nobody else would pay more than 8000

But what is stopping a seller from being equally stubborn on price? He doesn't have to sell it at the price demanded. He could just as well say, "I'm not going to sell it until you satisfy a price of my choosing," creating an impasse. Then for the sake of argument, I could assert that it's actually the buyers that have no choice but to either meet the seller's demand or attempt to save up before someone else comes along able to buy it. There are many potential buyers, so again, what's forcing the seller to have no choice but to sell at a lower price than what he wants (besides impatience)?

Edited by Blossora
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

You people have no idea how much good this mp actually does 

 

sure a handful of items kinda get alittle messed up, but the way this game is designed the (almost) fixed mp force players to more intuitive about money making and gives reward to hard work rather than searching the game for loopholes to exploit 

 

mmos need to be controlled very tightly, almost every mmo has confirmed this in the past

Edited by Claydough

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

But what is stopping a seller from being equally stubborn on price? He doesn't have to sell it at the price demanded. He could just as well say, "I'm not going to sell it until you satisfy a price of my choosing," creating an impasse. Then for the sake of argument, I could assert that it's actually the buyers that have no choice but to either meet the seller's demand or attempt to save up before someone else comes along able to buy it. There are many potential buyers, so again, what's forcing the seller to have no choice but to sell at a lower price than what he wants (besides impatience)?

he doesn't have to sell his shit 

but others will

the fact that u can sell at 1000-2000 instead of 500 is already a HUGE improvement 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

@FapperJack

...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

the fact that u can sell at 1000-2000 instead of 500 is already a HUGE improvement 

Well, the numbers are so arbitrary, it's hard to understand how it would apply to every item and every trading scenario. It seems to me you're assuming all of the rich guy sellers would always attempt to sell rare items at an exorbitant price that only other rich guys can afford first. Before I go on to include the average joe buyers, it seems to me that the rich guy seller's customers is other rich guys... So like I said, he could just wait for a potential buyer who can meet his price demand.

For less rare items, like a liverto weapon for example, then I could understand it if someone tried to artificially inflate the price. But that would just be stupid. Of course average joe buyers wouldn't buy it, even if they could afford it. Only players who are ignorant of the market or rich guys whom could afford it a hundred times over and don't care would buy it (which would bring me back to my "always a potential buyer rebuttal", though obviously just an outlier so I won't assert it in that case). Anyways, even rich guys wouldn't buy it because there's generally a steady flow of liverto weapons. Everybody sane would just wait to buy one at the normal price. But then, what exactly is "normal price", in this free market example? What happens to liverto weapons, if min and mix price limits were removed tomorrow? Would people start posting them at higher or lower prices? Personally, I would say lower because of how many pri+ liverto weapons there are not being bought. But I wouldn't know that for sure. The sellers could lower their TET liverto's from 700m to 500m, and maybe that's the sweet spot where players think it's worth to buy them en masse. Maybe, could, perhaps...

The point I'm trying to make here, is that the examples you've given to further the idea of a free market have too many variables and assumptions. The situations playing out as you've described them could happen, but it doesn't mean it will happen. There could very well be a chance that something you have not foreseen causes the market to crash. You have to provide much more concrete facts and data that would empirically confirm that a free market would benefit the economy, in order for (most) players and (more importantly) Kakao to consider it. My liverto example is just one of many, many, items that would need to be taken into consideration. Such as the monster that would be free market pearl items.

Beyond all that, saying:

no choice

Followed by:

he doesn't have to [implying choice]

is a bit contradicting. Unless I'm understanding it wrong.

Edited by Blossora

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites