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Let's Talk Gear And Controlled Market


155 posts in this topic

Posted

like how much randomness u can tolerate it all depends

BDO's full of RNG, everything is RNG, if u enjoy the game at casual level u don't have to worry bout RNG this is a godly game, once u hit the end game it becomes shit as F

I never said the contrary, tis why I do not play it full time, I do it very leisurely :3

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Posted

I never said the contrary, tis why I do not play it full time, I do it very leisurely :3

one thing u need to know is that, RNG is not here to make ur life easy or fun, it's here to make fat ass $$$ for the publisher/developer

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Posted

one thing u need to know is that, RNG is not here to make ur life easy or fun, it's here to make fat ass $$$ for the publisher/developer

That's just your opinion, I just see it as a wall to climb :3

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Posted

That's just your opinion, I just see it as a wall to climb :3

u can climb ur wall but keep in mind that there r those ppl who resent RNG

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Posted

u can climb ur wall but keep in mind that there r those ppl who resent RNG

Hey, let me make my bdo american dream equivalent in peace :D 

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Posted

That will already be an improvement over the current situation where pretty much nobody even considers listing TET items. It's not like you live under the illusion that you are somehow gonna easily snipe all the TET boss items from MP now, is it?

"Only the cheapest item can be purchased"

i am under the illusion that tet is actually cheaper to make for me, because it is; but the main reason ppl arent listing now is because they expect a pearl gift, if you wanna improve marketplace, remove pearl gifting (wont happen).

that may not apply to things which are bought out instantly like logs.

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Posted

that may not apply to things which are bought out instantly like logs.

Logs will not be bought out instantly if the prices are set free - they will be more expensive and also more people will be providing them because of that. The same applies to pretty much every item with high availability but high demand.

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Posted

Logs will not be bought out instantly if the prices are set free - they will be more expensive and also more people will be providing them because of that. The same applies to pretty much every item with high availability but high demand.

you really should check out the price on logs, ppl are willing to buy for crazy amount on preorders....

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Posted

Free markets are the most efficient.  Prices go up, suppliers want more money, supplies go up, prices come down.  I'd rather pay higher prices and be able to get what I want when I want it then deal with price controls.

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Posted

It will probably apply to everything except for those items that have crazy drop rates. Since those are probably intentionally kept rare. Common items might flood the market at higher prices.

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Posted

you really should check out the price on logs, ppl are willing to buy for crazy amount on preorders....

How does that in any way conflict with what I said?

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Posted

 

  • it can't have someone with more silver won over someone with less (so new player can win)

And where is logic in this shit? You are promoting lottery again... Rewards should reflect effort, not luck... If there is guy who spent 10 times the time than some newbie, he deserves it more...

(and this talk about me bein salty for not bein able to overbid someone cant be used here, since i am working university student who is trhwoing away most of my income (which anyway is smotly from events) for horse training... If someone has more silver than me and wants to buy sth he deserves it.. I will buy it when i have money... There is no reason for me to snipe item from someone who spends half of his day attempting to fight this shitty screwed RNG we have here)

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Posted

OP,. you are just one lazy ass. Why? Because you just think you are smart and can mislead people into false feeling of a good ole open market and its benefits. But all what you want to do is to speculate on the market. How about you speculate with current system? That way at least you can say, you've earned that cash, instead of cash grab leeching on the market with your proposals. Better yet, just go and do some activities that earn you cash, just like everyone else does.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted

How does that in any way conflict with what I said?

that means the price of log wont matter for the most part, also with a free market 1 person can also reduce the price of simple items so much, example normal ppl post a stack of 500 logs at 10k each, then person a buys 1 of the stacks, and lists it 1 by 1 for 1k silver, thats 500 log you'd have to go through to get your normal price back, now imagine if 10 ppl do it, 100 ppl, how are you going to solve that.

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Posted (edited)

I have been trying to buy DUO/TRI assorted accessories for a month now. Maybe 10 bids per day on average. Guess how many i've gotten? None...

And before you say it, no..I wont..I tried once and lost more money than the item I wanted is worth and was left empty handed.

So whatever gets rid of the stupid bidding system I will sign my name on. Even the old captcha/sniping was better for getting stuff during this century

Edited by TerrorMoose

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Posted (edited)

that means the price of log wont matter for the most part, also with a free market 1 person can also reduce the price of simple items so much, example normal ppl post a stack of 500 logs at 10k each, then person a buys 1 of the stacks, and lists it 1 by 1 for 1k silver, thats 500 log you'd have to go through to get your normal price back, now imagine if 10 ppl do it, 100 ppl, how are you going to solve that.

If logs get expensive enough that they're worth gathering for profit, a lot more people will list them. As for the other "problem", if you try to do that, you will discover that no later than after placing 30 logs you can't create any more sell orders.

In general however, a lot of potential issues can be solved by having a solid MP interface. For example, look at Eve Online for how to make one.

Edited by thdsm

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Posted

ITT: people without a -----ing clue on a game economy system.

 

This isn't like real world, an open economy isn't sustainable because there is not a cap on how much silver one can make (except time), and mostly how much that can snowball on the MP. It's not even possible to make a vaguely realistic example, but imagine if Bill Gates (people with billions in storage) decided to purchase AMD and NVIDIA, now all their products (boss gear) start from 2k$. Let's say there were someone that could provide a small amount of those products besides them (raid boss hunting) willing to sell for an affordable price to average Joe, well Bill Gates is no fool and has a whole team of people dedicated to buy them no matter the price, even more than the original 2k if needed. Bam!, monopoly is created, now your only chance to get boss armor is to drop it yourself.

Of course this could never happen in real life because there is no incentive in doing so, as there is no "Boss gear" for real life.

This regulated system work just fine, it's not perfect but I think it's near the best possible to keep the economy fair, and by fair I mean that rewards are proportioned to effort. I could only see two changes being beneficial, one would be to cap pre-orders to a fixed %, like 3 times the maximum price. This would prevent the richest to acquire a "soft monopoly" (like hundreds of millions for boss gear), while still giving an advantage to those who actually worked hard for that.

The other idea is maybe already in place, I'm not sure how price regulation works now but I think it should be very dynamic, something like daily +/- 1% to min-max prices for items not sold for more than x time or not put on sale for longer than y time. This could help achieve a more realistic situation of the demand/offer for any item, while retaining the necessary limitations of a game economy.

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Posted

ITT: people without a -----ing clue on a game economy system.

Yes, you and people like you who keep spouting nonsense like "they would just create a monopoly"

You don't know how currency or the economy works.

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Posted

Yes, you and people like you who keep spouting nonsense like "they would just create a monopoly"

You don't know how currency or the economy works.

I tried to explain how a game economy (which is a lot different than real life's) works, based on what I've seen already in other games (Lineage 2 in particular, where full sets cost dozens of billions and you can't even farm money, good luck with that). Why would you think people with several billions in storage wouldn't take advantage of that?

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Posted

I tried to explain how a game economy (which is a lot different than real life's) works, based on what I've seen already in other games (Lineage 2 in particular, where full sets cost dozens of billions and you can't even farm money, good luck with that). Why would you think people with several billions in storage wouldn't take advantage of that?

There was other things going on besides it "simply being a game economy which is different than real life and game economies are really easy to create a monopoly for despite being different"

You and other people don't understand buyers, sellers, resources or currency as well as you'd like to think you do

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Posted

There was other things going on besides it "simply being a game economy which is different than real life and game economies are really easy to create a monopoly for despite being different"

You and other people don't understand buyers, sellers, resources or currency as well as you'd like to think you do

Yet I and others are providing examples and observations, while you are just saying "nope you're wrong".

Also it is a fact that resources and currency work extremely different from real life, especially the most rare ones: everyone in a game starts even (different from rl), but only the most dedicated hardcore grinders get to the top (kinda similar sometimes, but not necessarily). This means that there will always be more demand than supply of said items (again, talking boss gear and TRI+ gear), and if it's true that the sellers only sell at the highest price possible (which should be), then in a free market we are talking several billions for a single item, much like currently works with pre-order (which at least is only 20% afaik).

I'd rather keep my 1/total bidders chance for a fair priced item than the certainty I won't ever have enough to buy it from MP, as I don't play as much as top grinders. The step from there to crazyness is very small, that's the entire concept of a silver sink like the preorder (gives actual spending power to currency without crazy inflating the prices). It is vital that such system is in place for an economy to sustain, otherwise we'd be talking about several millions memfrags only available to "elite" players.

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Posted (edited)

Yet I and others are providing examples and observations, while you are just saying "nope you're wrong".

 

Wrong examples... Favourite one here is, that some people have insane (almost infinite) stockpile of money... Well guess what... All ingame resources are infinite as well... Even if one person created monopol (which isalmost impossible with our bidphase, pre-order and high tax, which could be even increased), everyone would operate in his price ranges, so everyone would have same chance for income and all resources availabe for the same price... And guess what else? Maybe they would even be worth selling...

This was already explained here and in other topics several times... Just those few who have any idea about economy are already tired explaining it to new and new newbies who dont bother to use search functions...

Btw noone is preventing you from playing the market as well... And prices would eventualy balance itself out... Even monopol can list the items only for price people are actually willing to pay, otherwise he will either get overwhelmed by supply without bein able to sell anything, or run out of money trying to inflate all those prices... And do you know what else? What is the best anti-monopol strategy we have in BDO? Friggin 30 item max lising amount! How the ----- do you want to create monopoly with 30 item limit? :D With this limit, taxes and items bein tied to each other in crafting so much, there is no reason to not have free market, beside overwhelming newbies or whales buying out everything (but guess what? There is cashshop limit as well)...

So while it is neccessary in other versions, its just another annoyance for most of the people in ours (yeah even for those like you, who dont understand it),...

Any other "arguments"?

 

edit: oh yeah there is actually one problem... All lifeskills are balanced arout current market prices... So things like trading and fishing would turn into useless crap... On the other hand gathering and horse training would be actually viable...

Edited by RoakOriginal

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Posted

I honestly think everything in this game is pretty cheap. Only issue is the supply. The demand is there but the supply is RNG lol

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Posted

Wrong examples... Favourite one here is, that some people have insane (almost infinite) stockpile of money... Well guess what... All ingame resources are infinite as well... Even if one person created monopol (which isalmost impossible with our bidphase, pre-order and high tax, which could be even increased), everyone would operate in his price ranges, so everyone would have same chance for income and all resources availabe for the same price... And guess what else? Maybe they would even be worth selling...

This was already explained here and in other topics several times... Just those few who have any idea about economy are already tired explaining it to new and new newbies who dont bother to use search functions...

Btw noone is preventing you from playing the market as well... And prices would eventualy balance itself out... Even monopol can list the items only for price people are actually willing to pay, otherwise he will either get overwhelmed by supply without bein able to sell anything, or run out of money trying to inflate all those prices... And do you know what else? What is the best anti-monopol strategy we have in BDO? Friggin 30 item max lising amount! How the ----- do you want to create monopoly with 30 item limit? :D With this limit, taxes and items bein tied to each other in crafting so much, there is no reason to not have free market, beside overwhelming newbies or whales buying out everything (but guess what? There is cashshop limit as well)...

So while it is neccessary in other versions, its just another annoyance for most of the people in ours (yeah even for those like you, who dont understand it),...

Any other "arguments"?

 

edit: oh yeah there is actually one problem... All lifeskills are balanced arout current market prices... So things like trading and fishing would turn into useless crap... On the other hand gathering and horse training would be actually viable...

I really don't understand what you are trying to say here.

that some people have insane (almost infinite) stockpile of money... Well guess what... All ingame resources are infinite as well...

There are people with several billions silver, that's not a myth. Maybe if you have hundreds million it doesn't really seem that much if a guy has over 10b, but the point is his spending power is several times higher than anyone else's.

Also, and I've already said this, everyone having the same chance of earning silver is only true in theory, because most players can only dedicate so much time to the game, there will always be "nolifers" with enormous advantage, and that's fair since it's earned.

Even if one person created monopol (which isalmost impossible with our bidphase, pre-order and high tax, which could be even increased), everyone would operate in his price ranges, so everyone would have same chance for income and all resources availabe for the same price

That's the point. With MP system like this there is no opportunity to create monopoly. With free trading (as in, "wts gear best offer", or uncapped prices in MP) that opens up. That's literally the issue discussed here.

Btw noone is preventing you from playing the market as well... And prices would eventualy balance itself out... Even monopol can list the items only for price people are actually willing to pay, otherwise he will either get overwhelmed by supply without bein able to sell anything, or run out of money trying to inflate all those prices

Right now with rng market and mp tax there is literally no advantage in "market flipping", therefore the only benefit one gets from having a lot of silver is a incredibly high pre-order power, which is totally fair because it actually helps obtaining needed items but nothing more than that.  

Furthermore, while it's true that supply and demand need to meet in a free economy, the point I think you are missing is item availabilty, which plays a crucial role in where the prices meet. At the moment if I had a couple bhegs to spare I could only sell for MP max price; sure, there's a 20% chance some guy gets his preorder at 10x that, but most time it will actually benefit some other player bidding the mp with a fair price. If there wasn't such system there would always be someone willing to pay several times that, meaning that most players would be sort of gated out, which is what the system currently prevents and what I'm advocating against.

How the ----- do you want to create monopoly with 30 item limit?

I'm not sure what you are talking about here.

With this limit, taxes and items bein tied to each other in crafting so much, there is no reason to not have free market

Again not clear, they are mutually exclusive. You can't have free market with these limits. That's what's the conversation is about.

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Posted (edited)

 

I really don't understand what you are trying to say here.

There are people with several billions silver, that's not a myth. Maybe if you have hundreds million it doesn't really seem that much if a guy has over 10b, but the point is his spending power is several times higher than anyone else's.

Also, and I've already said this, everyone having the same chance of earning silver is only true in theory, because most players can only dedicate so much time to the game, there will always be "nolifers" with enormous advantage, and that's fair since it's earned.

That's the point. With MP system like this there is no opportunity to create monopoly. With free trading (as in, "wts gear best offer", or uncapped prices in MP) that opens up. That's literally the issue discussed here.

Right now with rng market and mp tax there is literally no advantage in "market flipping", therefore the only benefit one gets from having a lot of silver is a incredibly high pre-order power, which is totally fair because it actually helps obtaining needed items but nothing more than that.  

Furthermore, while it's true that supply and demand need to meet in a free economy, the point I think you are missing is item availabilty, which plays a crucial role in where the prices meet. At the moment if I had a couple bhegs to spare I could only sell for MP max price; sure, there's a 20% chance some guy gets his preorder at 10x that, but most time it will actually benefit some other player bidding the mp with a fair price. If there wasn't such system there would always be someone willing to pay several times that, meaning that most players would be sort of gated out, which is what the system currently prevents and what I'm advocating against.

I'm not sure what you are talking about here.

Again not clear, they are mutually exclusive. You can't have free market with these limits. That's what's the conversation is about.

OK i see what is a issue here... You either dont play this game or have never sold a thing on the market... :D 

So for you i will recap it...

There is 35% tax for items sold on the market... (lower with VP)

You can list maximum of 30 items (stacks of material/consumables counts as one item slot for market, with set maximum amount per stack)

Items bein listed gives warning to people who have notice set for it.

Listing takes 9-15 minutes (iirc)...

This time limit doesnt apply to items which go for pre-order (you will get notice about item bein listed, then dice is rolled and then its decided if item goes into the marketplace or is sold to someone who pre-ordered it).

Items after the time limit go into the bid phase, where everyone can try their luck.

After bidphase (~2 miutes altogether) if noone wanted the item or noone sucecsfully rolled and claimed the item it does into regular sale on the market.

Edited by RoakOriginal

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