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Let's Talk Gear And Controlled Market


155 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Free market = gold sellers will buy things at ridiculously high prices to people who paid for silver. Yes, it would lead  us to chaos and real pay to win.

Edited by Radkein
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Posted

You are the one who has no clue about what you are talking about but alright keep thinking things work one way when it works in another I bet you dont even have a clue what made the world economy recover after the crash either or you wouldent be saying these things ;)

Go back to watching Michael Moore mockumentaries and thinking you know anything you blind immoral communist

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I don't need to say much more because it's as I said, most people against a free market are fear mongering along with having a lack of understanding how economies work, or how people work, or the value of currency. On the flip side, all you and others are saying is "no you're wrong it would lead to a monopoly" we're in a bit of an impasse. The best argument against free market is that it helps prevent gold farmers. Whether it's in-game or not, economies with more control are usually worse because it's contrary to what makes a more unregulated economy work.

It's not any fact that resources and currency work extremely different in real life, they do work differently but it's based on human interaction and the laws or regulations around them, apart from some fundamental differences. This still doesn't constitute logic to the statement of it being "extremely different', it's not. Compare what you can, don't pretend something is similar that isn't, I've done none of that. Also everyone in this game can do the same thing.

This statement doesn't make sense you need to be more concise or unpackage it better, you're sort of just saying "the sky is blue therefor cars will always have wheels". You're going to have to explain how you get from hard core gamers being a small percentage of the population to it meaning there's always a high demand than supply, also this goes into game design and resource/market management + population. You're trying to take a " items on this market is expensive in another game so it would happen in this game" approach

That's part of the problem, you have unquestioning trust. For some reason you think someone doing something means they know better or have good will. There is something we can do, give feedback or suggestions for fixes. Unless you're the type of person to say "get good" or "but it's the way the game was intended, go play another game this one isn't for you" in which case I suppose you're never angry or irritated when you play because it'd be contrary to the reasoning, and whenever someone says "fix server stability or lag or RNG or change x about y class" you'll say the same thing, "this game isn't for you" ok.

That's aside from the weird combination where you're usually rewarded for spending time through gear, gated by RNG, but then you and others for some reason think players shouldn't be rewarded for time when it comes to the market, then it's "well i guess its fair enough..."

Not every MMO

Do you know how the housing market crashed? Do you know about banks and company bailouts? Do you know about communism? Do you know about how usually more government control results in inefficiency, (bad economics and resource usage) along with potentially disastrous results? It appears not because you wouldn't be saying what you were saying if you did.

It is obviously nice to have a system in place to prevent gold sellers, but that's not an actual gameplay perk, it might be the best point for some people, but not for me. What I care most and I like most about this game is that it actually is fairly leveled across all kind of players, you can like grinding, lifeskilling, socializing, raiding, pvping, you can take any approach at the game you wish and still be able, through different means, to progress and build you character, and I am convinced the regulated market plays a good role in this because all prices are based on such system existing in the first place.

About resources, yes they do in fact are completely different than real life as they are only gated behind time, not skill, education, experience or what have you, and they scale with progression. You can grind more silver the more you are geared, and you gather/process/otherwise acquire more resources the more trained in lifeskills you are. This simply doesn't exist in real life (with ridicously few exceptions like Bill Gates or Middle Eastern sultans), where regular people can maybe work overtime to make some extra bucks, ask for a raise or sometimes even change work(place) to earn more, but in any case it's never "scaling", which instead happens in games, and if prices adjust accordingly it's when inflation happens, which is really bad because it creates an ever enlarging gap between older and newer players, which is the main reason why I support the regulated market, because it keeps the gap at minimum.

everyone in a game starts even (different from rl), but only the most dedicated hardcore grinders get to the top (kinda similar sometimes, but not necessarily). This means that there will always be more demand than supply of said items (again, talking boss gear and TRI+ gear),

You are right this sentence is messed up, I changed it half way and didn't realize it lost its meaning. The point was that almost everyone will eventually aim to end game or boss gear, so demand is always incredibly higher, and this means in a free market that prices would skyrocket, preventing most playerbase to even have a chance. With capped prices even if sometimes items go to preorder for several billions, and even if hundreds or thousands of players are bidding simultaneously, I know as long as I have some silver (less than 100kk, almost everyone can get that in a reasonable time even with casual playing) I have a chance. With free market competition only top grinders can bid on it.

As a matter of fact, I do actually never complain about design choices, it's not the same as server stability (which btw I've never had any problem with) that prevents their product to be consumed (aka is a disservice), MP as much as RNG with enchanting is an intended feature pretty much like CP/worker empire and open field daily bosses, and to be honest it's the first game I've tried with this system and I prefer like this so far, but I do think we have no right to want to change this, it is their intended design choice and it makes BDO what it is, for the best and the worst. People complaining about RNG sound to me like people going to the casino and  complaining they lost money at the roulette.

People are rewarded for their time grinding and acquiring silver thorugh the pre order. If you have enough silver and pre order more than anyone else you'll always have 20% chance to get any item, statistically you'll get your item after about 5 listings, which take at most a few days for anything except the rarest of items (DUO+ yellow item), and that's also because the game is only 1 year old and people need to actually get to have them in the first place, before selling it. This seems fair to me, I understand if you have 20 billions in storage and need bheg's to complete boss set you feel like you earned and deserve it more than me that I barely have enough to bid on them, but you know, that's something someone like Trump would think, to each their own I guess.

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Posted

It is obviously nice to have a system in place to prevent gold sellers, but that's not an actual gameplay perk, it might be the best point for some people, but not for me. What I care most and I like most about this game is that it actually is fairly leveled across all kind of players, you can like grinding, lifeskilling, socializing, raiding, pvping, you can take any approach at the game you wish and still be able, through different means, to progress and build you character, and I am convinced the regulated market plays a good role in this because all prices are based on such system existing in the first place.

This better illustrates your thinking than posters which just say economic/game/political memes.

This game isn't fairly leveled at all, though. There's some pretty big differences in power that players have, which- RNG omitted- is dictated simply by who decided to mindless grind more. Whether that's something to do with crafting, processing or lifeskilling or PvE mobs. Helping prevent gold farmers is nice because it helps keep the players and all areas human, along with no messing of the market which is more relevant in a free market where players will pay to win, or have a magnitude higher than currently of pay2convenience-or-do-things-faster

About resources, yes they do in fact are completely different than real life as they are only gated behind time, not skill, education, experience or what have you, and they scale with progression. You can grind more silver the more you are geared, and you gather/process/otherwise acquire more resources the more trained in lifeskills you are. This simply doesn't exist in real life (with ridicously few exceptions like Bill Gates or Middle Eastern sultans), where regular people can maybe work overtime to make some extra bucks, ask for a raise or sometimes even change work(place) to earn more, but in any case it's never "scaling", which instead happens in games, and if prices adjust accordingly it's when inflation happens, which is really bad because it creates an ever enlarging gap between older and newer players, which is the main reason why I support the regulated market, because it keeps the gap at minimum.

No, they're not that different. The main difference between real life resources and in-game ones is that in-game you can set them up to be infinite, currently in real life there is no such guarantee. Furthermore, the differentiation between resources is mostly how gated or lifelike those resources are- in terms of transfer, gathering or whatnot. Either way, you have a resource, whether it's virtual wood or not, which can be obtained certain ways or not, and in terms of trading they can either follow more regulation free systems or more regulated systems. You can say there's a big difference between one being virtual and not, sure, but in terms of discussing economic systems and how much we know about trade, the difference of virtual or nonvirtual is irrelevant, what is much more relevant is what countries we're comparing to in real life and what rules are in place in the virtual world that the economy resides in. You can have it be easier to obtain resources and infinite, or a whole bunch of other things, plus things about the market which dictate how easy or difficult something will be in the economy. Simply saying "it's really different" doesn't make it any more different in terms of economics or trade. It's about the game design and what enables or disables trade that makes it different.

The scaling comparison is actually there, people generally make more as they gain experience in real life and that can definitely be considered 'scaling up', but scaling in this context is usually game lingo, not lingo people use in real life to describe their increased pay as time goes on.

It is obviously nice to have a system in place to prevent gold sellers, but that's not an actual gameplay perk, it might be the best point for some people, but not for me. What I care most and I like most about this game is that it actually is fairly leveled across all kind of players, you can like grinding, lifeskilling, socializing, raiding, pvping, you can take any approach at the game you wish and still be able, through different means, to progress and build you character, and I am convinced the regulated market plays a good role in this because all prices are based on such system existing in the first place.

About resources, yes they do in fact are completely different than real life as they are only gated behind time, not skill, education, experience or what have you, and they scale with progression. You can grind more silver the more you are geared, and you gather/process/otherwise acquire more resources the more trained in lifeskills you are. This simply doesn't exist in real life (with ridicously few exceptions like Bill Gates or Middle Eastern sultans), where regular people can maybe work overtime to make some extra bucks, ask for a raise or sometimes even change work(place) to earn more, but in any case it's never "scaling", which instead happens in games, and if prices adjust accordingly it's when inflation happens, which is really bad because it creates an ever enlarging gap between older and newer players, which is the main reason why I support the regulated market, because it keeps the gap at minimum.

You are right this sentence is messed up, I changed it half way and didn't realize it lost its meaning. The point was that almost everyone will eventually aim to end game or boss gear, so demand is always incredibly higher, and this means in a free market that prices would skyrocket, preventing most playerbase to even have a chance

 

Game design like I've been saying. Drop rate, item & number of people that want it / are playing along with some other factors. The price would go up but it's not very different than how it is currently with high preorders setup and people reluctant to place them because they know they're worth more. If you do- you get a small bonus cut of the preorder. This market is good at being full of half measures, though, I'll give it that.

As a matter of fact, I do actually never complain about design choices, it's not the same as server stability (which btw I've never had any problem with) that prevents their product to be consumed (aka is a disservice), MP as much as RNG with enchanting is an intended feature pretty much like CP/worker empire and open field daily bosses, and to be honest it's the first game I've tried with this system and I prefer like this so far, but I do think we have no right to want to change this, it is their intended design choice and it makes BDO what it is, for the best and the worst. People complaining about RNG sound to me like people going to the casino and  complaining they lost money at the roulette.

 

I never saw marketing or trailers advertising "lag free" why are you so sure lag wasn't part of the intending immersion? Either way, it's here so the "this isn't game for you" argument still applies. I never saw any advertisements for "rng in pvp because it's exciting not knowing whether you actually can hit someone again when you hit them behind/through something properly- the cc lands, but then it gets resisted." I want you to pay attention because two times you've said "completely different things" in this post, twice. I'm not saying that they are exactly the same but they don't need to be exactly the same for the logic to apply. Sometimes the same logic won't apply due to a difference, and sometimes it will because the difference isn't contrary or notable enough to dictate so.

Seems to me that you are fond of saying "no everything is different and everything has different rules that can be applied to it, they aren't the same thing"

Except when it comes to games apparently, then you and others like to say "all games are all the same like every mmo monopolies will be created" even though it's extremely difficult to create a monopoly in BDO with the game design even if they cut a lot of the regulations in the market.

People are rewarded for their time grinding and acquiring silver thorugh the pre order. If you have enough silver and pre order more than anyone else you'll always have 20% chance to get any item, statistically you'll get your item after about 5 listings, which take at most a few days for anything except the rarest of items (DUO+ yellow item), and that's also because the game is only 1 year old and people need to actually get to have them in the first place, before selling it. This seems fair to me, I understand if you have 20 billions in storage and need bheg's to complete boss set you feel like you earned and deserve it more than me that I barely have enough to bid on them, but you know, that's something someone like Trump would think, to each their own I guess.

There it is. Because you are rewarded it feels like it's "fair enough"

Regarding your last statement, the market is regulated contrary to in-game investment and reward. If you grind and level up, you deserve it, you are rewarded. But players think that having set prices with RNG in the market on preorders and artificially low prices which can stifle anyone wanting to sell it is "enough of a reward" despite thinking that you should get rewarded for time investment- where a really clearcut example is leveling or "power' a character and person has.

Feeling you deserve it can be a really bad, nonsensical argument, though. It can be said that someone who PvPs all day and is extremely skilled might deserve a win over someone who barely has any skill whatsoever but decided to do something easier, (grind and get gear) but the guy with gear with minimal competence will win. Game design, ok. Where this is particularly bad is where there's no metrics to go off of. Two guys fighting, one wins and the other says "well i deserved it more"

Why? Because you tried harder? How would you know? It can get baseless and overly emotional depending on the situation. 'deserving' can be messy. Time spent is a metric and in terms of 'deserving', it definitely makes more sense than other things.

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Posted (edited)

How are there ppl saying they want "a fair game for everyone" but want a "free market"?

Do you actually not realise that a "free market" is doing nothing good? it just opens the doors for gold sellers and rich ppl to dominate the market thus ruining the whole "fair and equal economy" you are so desperete - and yet blind for. Belive it or not, having played MMO's for all those years, controled markets and not allowing "p2p trade" is the only way to go if you want to keep your game "fair" and keep a shitload of gold sellers away (ofc this system we have is not "fair" - talking pre-order - but its still the best you will ever get)

If they regulate the pre-order prices its a perfect system in my eyes. And even if they dont (which they wont :'D) i dont care. Cause i know theres nothing thats actually better.

 

Edited by wiwiRené
menoenglishman
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