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Are the dev's or GM's going to acknowledge that half the channels are broken and completely unusable by the majority of the player base?


118 posts in this topic

Posted

Do what you want but in many of the occurrences I've seen him  challenge people, they back down because what he's challenging they know they can't keep up with.Comes down to human norms. Most people are too cowardly to admit when they are wrong.

Yeah, you just described him right there.

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Posted

Stop with the debate team summer camp prep nonsense.  Fact: the odd-numbered channels are messed up and need work.  Do you think it's an accident that channels numbered 2, 4, and 6 are Crowded at prime time and 1, 3, and 5 are not?  Every single time I've gone to a 3 or 5 for a second boss in the last month there has been massive desync.  When the server catches up, either the boss is dead, or half the people fighting it are, and general chat is full of people complaining about the lag.  Everyone in my guild experiences this.  Everyone I talk to in other guilds experiences this.

 

The burden of proof isn't ours simply because you're AFK training horses while the rest of us are at world bosses rubber-banding or at node/siege wars getting minute long desyncs and disconnections from the game.  If you aren't experiencing this regularly, you simply are not in a position to notice it or you aren't playing when the majority of the playerbase is.  We don't need 51% of the server to upload video every day to satisfy your forum-warrior requirements.  Sort yourself out.

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Posted (edited)

This is a point and often very helpful in figuring out issues in an IT environment.
If someone was in a tech role, i'd expect them to figure out what he was doing differently than those that are lagging.
You're wrong here.

No it's not a point, it's kicking an open door by stating: I'm avoiding the problem by avoiding what create the problem. And it's not helpful either in our case. Else the solution is rather obvious: remove players from the game and you'll remove the lags. We really needed an IT guy to figure that. But, that's not a practical solution since the point of a MMO is to hold players.

 

What? How does this support an argument what so  ever? It has no backing, warrant or description what so ever AND it assumes the arguers position which is 100% against the flow of argumentation. 
You're wrong here.

Commonly called empiricism. It's actually something necessary. Else I can just say cats do fly (see my last point).

 

THIS is a better counter argument to obvious goofing, and it's a self contained point.
You "Can't" avoid people during node wars because that's node wars.
That being said, you can avoid the occurrence by not going to node wars but that defeats one of the purposes of the game. 
You're both wrong here.

As I said, we can also remove the players from the server, but again, that defeats the purpose of the game. So as long as NW is a part of the game, it is expected to have a high amount of players clustered in a small region. And there's nothing wrong with it since it's a part of the game ruleset and not something we decided as players.

 

What? How does this support an argument what so  ever? It has no backing, warrant or description what so ever AND it assumes the arguers position which is 100% against the flow of argumentation. 
You're wrong here.

I'm indeed questioning his experience, which is a fair stance considering it would be silly to say "I never had any lag in NW, though I only ever did one NW". It's a matter of sample in the end.

 

And actually, if someone showed up saying: "I did my TET first try, therefore there's a 100% chance to TET", you would probably be the first speaking about how the size of the sample and the experience is important. You're just going against your own scientific reasoning for the sake of defending Plunge's argument process (which is mostly based on philosophical arguments and have no place in this thread). We aren't confronting ideas, we are confronting factual issues.

Edited by Suh

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Posted

With this sort of English comprehension, the only thing you'll be serving me is fries with my burger. :) 

There's no evidence that it's a large percentage of the population, let alone the majority. You don't know how many players this game has and how many are suffering. 

You're only making a fool of yourself.

You're grasping at straws trying to justify your statement while missing the entire point.  Only the idiots will argue over the terminology.  The overall point was very clear.  The lag issue has affected a lot of players.

Using the statement "you don't know how many players play this game" is just pathetic at this point.  It's a amateur defense.  I thought you would be better then that.

 

There is even more source than these forums.  There are popular videos that mention the issue.  They simply mention they lost crystals in the lag etc.

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Posted

"I never had any lag in NW, though I only ever did one NW". 

I've even done a node war recently and had no issues.

According to you, everyone who does node wars gets lag. I did a node war last week and my guild is competing in another one this week. According to you I should be experiencing lag, but I'm not which goes against what you said. Then again, according to you I'm lying because everybody in the game should be experiencing lag otherwise they are liars. :) 

Using the statement "you don't know how many players play this game" is just pathetic at this point.

Just like using the statement "the majority of players" is a bad defense for not having good internet. You can't have it both ways, if people want to try and justify their hollow argument by claiming that the majority feel the same way then they should be ready to defend their statement. No matter what you try to argue, it is not a server issue as we'd all be experiencing lag if it were not. The issue is either with the person or the path to the server, unless you're going to claim that everyone who says they aren't experiencing lag is lying. :) 

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Posted

According to you, everyone who does node wars gets lag. I did a node war last week and my guild is competing in another one this week. According to you I should be experiencing lag, but I'm not which goes against what you said. Then again, according to you I'm lying because everybody in the game should be experiencing lag otherwise they are liars. :) 

Just like using the statement "the majority of players" is a bad defense for not having good internet. You can't have it both ways, if people want to try and justify their hollow argument by claiming that the majority feel the same way then they should be ready to defend their statement. No matter what you try to argue, it is not a server issue as we'd all be experiencing lag if it were not. The issue is either with the person or the path to the server, unless you're going to claim that everyone who says they aren't experiencing lag is lying. :) 

Man, just go back to all the p2w topic and other useless arguments, why do you even bother arguing about an ongoing issue? Please explain, I'm so curious what drives you, are you trying to win the "highest number of arguments posted" award or what? I understand you must argue about p2w, shit enchanting system, shit RNG and all that, how else would you have 4k posts? But about a serious issue that's been reported by number of players (FYI, I counted 7 or 8 topics related to this issue in the 1st 3 pages, don't forget the number of replies on each topic who are experiencing the same lag) should not be argued about, I'm pretty sure they can't all be blamed for having shitty internet connection.

Oh, you are not lagging? GOOD, go back to game and enjoy while the issue is being fixed for the rest.

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Posted

An MMO that struggles to deliver a smooth zero latency experience when a bunch of characters are in the same small space unloading all their abilities.

 

This is the reason for BDO Forums to lose its collective minds today.

 

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Posted

There is a 10 to 1 in this forum thread alone stating yes, there is a horrid lag/ desync. The odd number servers obviously being the worst of the bunch.

It's not just in large group scenarios,  people can't even farm sausans on the odd number servers because you'll end up rubber banding back to the start of your rotation with an eerie sense of DejaVu.

The fact that this is even being argued is beyond me. It's not a user error. 

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Posted (edited)

According to you, everyone who does node wars gets lag. I did a node war last week and my guild is competing in another one this week. According to you I should be experiencing lag, but I'm not which goes against what you said. Then again, according to you I'm lying because everybody in the game should be experiencing lag otherwise they are liars. :) 

According to what? I never said every NW is the same, you just assumed it. For all I know, you could have a NW against nobody. But keep emphasizing your erratic experience.

Edited by Suh

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Posted

lag1.thumb.png.a40d42f866868f50a03b3375b

More post soon.

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Posted

Stay off the odd numbered channels, and no 'instant-accel' through towns, game runs ok. Odd-channels are simply broke, (for me and the other 190 peeps in our guilds... all I can speak to).

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Posted

According to you, everyone who does node wars gets lag. I did a node war last week and my guild is competing in another one this week. According to you I should be experiencing lag, but I'm not which goes against what you said. Then again, according to you I'm lying because everybody in the game should be experiencing lag otherwise they are liars. :) 

Just like using the statement "the majority of players" is a bad defense for not having good internet. You can't have it both ways, if people want to try and justify their hollow argument by claiming that the majority feel the same way then they should be ready to defend their statement. No matter what you try to argue, it is not a server issue as we'd all be experiencing lag if it were not. The issue is either with the person or the path to the server, unless you're going to claim that everyone who says they aren't experiencing lag is lying. :) 

You're trying to pin faulty statements on me, but remember I'm a pro far above everyone else.

I'm not making the argument "most".

I won't be so ignorant to declare the issue isn't limited to certain locations, providers etc.

What I will claim is this is not a small issue that only affected a very limited amount of players.

It's so bad in some cases the game became unplayable, period.

 

By changing Channels there was a significant difference.  I haven't logged back into the other channels just to see how bad it could be, but for weeks it was unbearable.

This is an issue that should have been investigated by a professional team. (Why it wouldn't be is BAD management, poor business practice, lack of effort, oversight, basically just a sh!t company)

Instead they probably just sent E-mails to Pearl that went nowhere.

 

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Posted

 

Are you on EU? That's the only explanation at this point that I can think of that would make you seem like you even remotely have a stance here. But apparently, there's guys from EU on my discord that have similar issues anyway. But to make my point.. On NA, we have what are called reverse proxy servers. These are the odd channels in the list. When you go onto them, there is intermittent lag. Doesn't matter if there's a node war, a boss up, anything. The server will start to take a hit and everything slows to a halt and has to catch up. There's various evidence of this fact that you're completely ignoring. There are tons of threads about the server lag, posts on reddit about, people complaining in boss discord for NA, even videos on youtube from different people in different parts of the US or outside of the US as well. There is more than enough evidence to make a strong argument that the majority of players have issues. The fact that a boss isn't dead at the end of its life bar with barely anything left after a 2 minute lag session ends  goes to show that more than one person is having issues. Also, I'm gonna argue that your ignorance doesn't make his argument any less valid. You seem to want to argue against the word majority, when again, every single player that I come across in game on those channels actively complain about the lag. It pops up in channel chat, has in server chat, in say, over discord. The majority of people aren't on the forums, but they are ingame.

Just like using the statement "the majority of players" is a bad defense for not having good internet. You can't have it both ways, if people want to try and justify their hollow argument by claiming that the majority feel the same way then they should be ready to defend their statement. No matter what you try to argue, it is not a server issue as we'd all be experiencing lag if it were not. The issue is either with the person or the path to the server, unless you're going to claim that everyone who says they aren't experiencing lag is lying. :) 

I hope you realize a majority of NA doesn't have access to Fiber. Quick google search tells me that 25% of Americans or less have fiber in their homes. Another article is there's about a 9.4% penetration rate for fiber in this country. Here's a graph for average internet speeds across the world in Q3 of 2015:

20151218_fastest_internet_speeds_bi.png

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Posted

I hope you realize a majority of NA doesn't have access to Fiber. Quick google search tells me that 25% of Americans or less have fiber in their homes. Another article is there's about a 9.4% penetration rate for fiber in this country. Here's a graph for average internet speeds across the world in Q3 of 2015:

20151218_fastest_internet_speeds_bi.png

Still its 2 year old stats.

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Posted

2016 seems to bump the curve up to 50+ mbps as the US average. Still not amazing internet I suppose. I'm just about average myself according to that.

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Posted

You would think by now the fact that every night the even numbered channels are crowded and mostly server lag free, while the odd numbered channels are not "crowded" and laggy as hell would be really embarrassing and call for an immediate fix.

It is known that the odd channels go through a proxy, so obviously that proxy is the problem. Why not get rid of it?

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Posted

I read most of the thread,It's just whiny crybabies arguing with their feelers. Why do i say this? Because there is a way to argue and debate. There are civil rules and boundaries,As said or eluded to. There is a structure and rules you follow to make sure the playing field is fair and civil. Plunge started off using those rules,Everyone attempted to slander him with Ad Hominem instead of simply refuting his points. He never claimed that those making claims of THEM lagging is a lie. He simply asked for a source to a wild allegation that "EVERYONE" is lagging and rubberbanding etc.

Unfortunately for you this is not the case or reality. I have lagged maybe 2-3 times ever in the game,and it was forever ago,somewhere in november and before.
I have never rubberbanded. I do not desync or lag,I've had htis same conversation with many on reddit and a handful of us that were willing to post we made videos of us not lagging,all hours of the day,swapping channels. Channel doesn't affect my connection to the server ,And never has.

Now,My above statement,Disprove it or it's fact. That is what many of you are saying. Well unfortunately that is not how a structured argument in a civil society works.
First you take an actual fact,Then you attempt to refute it with proof in a sufficient fact pattern that outweighs the current FACT. 

 

As it is there is no current PROOF that EVERYONE is LAGGING. THEREFOR IF YOU WANT IT TO BECOME A FACT,SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE IS NEEDED TO SUPPORT IT.            Even if you proved that the majority of the game are lagging,That does not mean "EVERYONE" is lagging. So when a person claims that they are not experiencing lag,Unfortunately for you,That is that persons personal experience. And personal experiences cannot be refuted. Only their perception of them.

For instance lets say you came up with sufficient evidence that the majority of the world had the same magnetism. Perfect ,you now have a fact,With fact however there are always anomalies. There are points in the earth where the magnetic field does not act the same as it does everywhere else.

Now because of how toxic these forums are,I would make the claim that many normal (not hostile) people do not post about their lack of lag on the forum because of the severe insults and ad hom they get to making their claims. Just like is happening here now to plunge. Plunge is not claiming you are a liar your personal experience so why claim he is for his?. If the game is really lagging for the majority of the population kakao already know it and are either working on it or decided not to for whatever reason. Making these threads does literally no good,Do a search and see how many of these threads already exist,making another does you no good,Want to make a post complaining? make a decent suggestion to go along with it,A DECENT suggestion or simply start a petition on another website to boycott etc to make your opinion Forcibly heard by the company,Posting this garbage here full of ad hom and insults mixed with unjustified claims is a baseless false reality you wont push on anyone.


Anyone attempting to make sweeping claims based on personal experience that blanket statement an entire community better do so with just reason and a fact pattern that supports it. If you intend to make a difference you have to adhere to the more intelligent of the crowd not just the average person. A thousand ignorant people can move a giant boulder,But it only takes 1 smart person to convince them to.

 

I and many of my friends on the west coast never lag or rubberband or even see much if any desync. This includes my friends from the following states including myself, (California,Washington,Oregon,Idaho.

So instead what everyone should be doing is supplying data in a fact pattern basis and not emotion. So instead post this,And i will attempt to start collecting unique names/locations/what channels work best for them etc and i will make a graph. I will put in the effort to help the community. If people are willing to intelligently help and act civil, So my question to the community:

Each person if you could respond with the following,Structured in this manner.

A picture of your character (INCLUDING FAMILY NAME),no need for gear. (To prove you are a unique user and not a person reposting to skew the data)
Location (if in the united states ,what state,if in another country,what country and what province or state)
Channels that work best for you
Channels that work the worst for you
If you have had issues what time of the day/what events during the game you feel them most/towns/nodewars etc
What internet provider.
What % of the time you play this adversely affects you.
Network speed you pay for.


So as an example

Picture blah blah
Location : California
Channels that work best : all
Channels that work worst: N/A
Issues : i had some issues 3 times last year during nodewars.
Time of day or events for issues : Nodewars
% of time it affects you adversely : 1%
Internet provider : Charter
Network speed you pay for : 200mb

 

I will be gathering data on here in this post and as well i will be asking people in game.
For quality control i will do the following.

10% of the players will be from the top nodewars guilds
10% of the players will be from lifeskilling only guilds.
10% of the players will be from the forum.
The other 70% will be collected by random individuals i find in the game
All questions will be asked in a fact pattern basis,Because i am asking the questions they will not include my bias. Simply probing questions.
if possible they will be asked in the same degree in the list that i have stated them here as to not "lead" subjects toward an answer i see fit.
Included after the graph will be a drop box full of screenshots of all 2,000 screenshots of unique names and conversations that the graph data
will be sourced from. I will be doing this to provide transparency for the 2,000 person data sample. I have hired a few friends to help me in their
free time to help me do quality control to make sure the same person is not collected data from.I have a fair amount of people willing to help with
the 2nd round of data collected to which if i succeed at getting the data out this month for 2,000 unique names they will help me collect the next round
of sample data to the tune of 10,000 unique people in the months following after.

I encourage you to support me in this endeavor by posting your information for this collection. In hopes that we can find the hubs or issues between locations
to the server for kakao to iron them out.

I will not accept data from individuals who will not list their state/country/family name or ISP provider.

Should i contact you in the game do not bother messaging me after our conversation as is concluded as you will be blocked to help me
sort through people so that i have less sorting to do of duplicate family names/char names later.
The person messaging you will be named "FreewayCensus" Any other name messaging you in regards to this is not me.

I will respond to this thread with a link to the new thread i make awell.
 

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Posted

As the OP, and living on the west coast, I can tell you that it is not territory based. Just because a few people do not experience the lag does not mean it is not happening for a very large portion of players. The even vs odd population distribution during prime time is hilariously visible during prime time channel selection.

 

I understand that the reverse proxy works better for some people, but they appear to be in a minority. Would it not make more sense to change Channel 1 to a regular server so node wars are not effected for the majority of players? keep channels 3 and 5 for the people that need the reverse proxy and make a fking public statement about this. So far everyone has figured out this nonsense from other players and forum posts. There has been no communication at all from the company running this game, which is honestly absolutely pathetic.

Get your fking act together Kakao. A 16 year old intern could make this post, its not that complicated.

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Posted

the fact that the majority of even number channels say crowded almost all odd numbers dont aught to be a clue

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Posted

This has nothing to do with developers or Pearl. This is squarely on the lap of Daum/ Kakao. It's a publishers job to supply.. publishing resources. Servers. Someone mentioned a reverse Proxy earlier. If that's a staple for some people, they can mark 2 or 3 as reverse proxy servers but right now, there are too many dedicated to it and they are a waste of assets because yes, they are useless at the moment.
It only seems to be an issue with NA servers. EU odd servers run fine.

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Posted (edited)

The issue has gotten so much attention lately, all I can imagine is sean bean's face in the boromir meme.

1obi18.jpg

Edited by Blossora

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Posted

the fact that the majority of even number channels say crowded almost all odd numbers dont aught to be a clue

Bingo

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Posted

 

Do what you want but in many of the occurrences I've seen him  challenge people, they back down because what he's challenging they know they can't keep up with.Comes down to human norms. Most people are too cowardly to admit when they are wrong.

Hm... I'll bite. 
I normally ignore Plunge lately since he/she decided to act like a ----- and use personal attacks rather than trying to prove a point or come up with an argument in a thread we were in this winter, then kept follow me onto other threads and rather than trying to argue, kept act like a child(and yes, I know you said many occurrences, not all. Still, I'll bite this time ^^).

however it is a lie to claim that the vast majority of people are experiencing issues.

Since you always ask for a source, could I ask for one? Because until you provide one, you shouldn't call others liars. 

You are basically saying that because it's not happening to you, it can't possibly be happening to the vast majority during node wars and calling another person a liar for saying it is. So until I can see sources from both sides, how about I call you a liar for saying he/she is lying? :) Just because it's not happening to you, it doesn't mean it's not happening to the vast majority and you shouldn't call people liars if you can't backup your claim.

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Posted

Ahaha some smart-a$$ should really stick to real life and stop wasting theire time being the smartest dood on BDO forums...

Ridiculous and sad.

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Posted

The game is fine. 4 minutes 0 action after start, big lag spikes later in low level pve areas too, but we can play.. in VPN.

 

 

Normal logins will fail in 100%. I flagged as "freeuser" maybe. No pay, no login in crowded servers. I didn't spend money last months. I'm returning player.

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