• Announcements

    • IMPORTANT - REACH US IN THE NEW FORUM   05/04/2017

      Ladies and gentlemen ATTENTION please:
      It's time to move into a new house!
        As previously announced, from now on IT WON'T BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE THREADS OR REPLY in the old forums. From now on the old forums will be readable only. If you need to move/copy/migrate any post/material from here, feel free to contact the staff in the new home. We’ll be waiting for you in the NEW Forums!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php

      *New features and amazing tools are waiting for you, even more is yet to come in the future.. just like world exploration in BDO leads to new possibilities.
      So don't be afraid about changes, click the link above and follow us!
      Enjoy and see you on the other side!  
    • WICHTIG: Das Forum ist umgezogen!   05/04/2017

      Damen und Herren, wir bitten um Eure Aufmerksamkeit, es ist an der Zeit umzuziehen!
        Wie wir bereits angekündigt hatten, ist es ab sofort nicht mehr möglich, neue Diskussionen in diesem Forum zu starten. Um Euch Zeit zu geben, laufende Diskussionen abzuschließen, könnt Ihr noch für zwei Wochen in offenen Diskussionen antworten. Danach geht dieses Forum hier in den Ruhestand und das NEUE FORUM übernimmt vollständig.
      Das Forum hier bleibt allerdings erhalten und lesbar.   Neue und verbesserte Funktionen warten auf Euch im neuen Forum und wir arbeiten bereits an weiteren Erweiterungen.
      Wir sehen uns auf der anderen Seite!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php Update:
      Wie angekündigt könen ab sofort in diesem Forum auch keine neuen Beiträge mehr veröffentlicht werden.
    • IMPORTANT: Le nouveau forum   05/04/2017

      Aventurières, aventuriers, votre attention s'il vous plaît, il est grand temps de déménager!
      Comme nous vous l'avons déjà annoncé précédemment, il n'est désormais plus possible de créer de nouveau sujet ni de répondre aux anciens sur ce bon vieux forum.
      Venez visiter le nouveau forum!
      https://community.blackdesertonline.com
      De nouvelles fonctionnalités ainsi que de nouveaux outils vous attendent dès à présent et d'autres arriveront prochainement! N'ayez pas peur du changement et rejoignez-nous! Amusez-vous bien et a bientôt dans notre nouveau chez nous

The Dye System ~ Pros/Cons (Poll + Feedback)


The Dye System - What are your thoughts?   782 votes

  1. 1. What are your thoughts on RNG Dye Boxes?

    • I'm perfectly fine with them, and am likely to purchase as many as it takes to get my desired look.
      17
    • I dislike the RNG behind the dyes, but I am still willing to purchase dyes to get my desired look.
      64
    • I dislike the RNG Boxes to the point of not purchasing dyes.
      194
    • I can accept the RNG - but make dyes multi-use.
      255
  2. 2. Let's talk solutions: Out of the options below, which appeals the most to you? (Be reasonable.)

    • Keep RNG in the boxes - though reduce the cost of dyes, in general.
      55
    • Remove RNG from the boxes - I will purchase more dyes if I know what I'm getting, directly.
      193
    • Keep RNG in the boxes - but allow dyes to be multi-use.
      268
    • Keep RNG in the boxes - but allow them to be sold in the auction house for in-game currency.
      108
    • Remove RNG from the boxes AND make them multi-use.
      158
  3. 3. As a player, how important is appearance to you?

    • How I look in-game is very important to me and affects how much I enjoy the game.
      405
    • How I look in-game is moderately important to me, but doesn't really affect my overall enjoyment of the game.
      121
    • How I look in-game doesn't matter to me at all.
      4

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

116 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Alright, so this is just a general poll and thread to talk about the dye system and how it works. For those who don't know, many armor pieces in the game have multiple areas for dye to be applied in. Example, if you want to dye a helmet blue, you're going to need to delve into the cash shop and purchase an RNG box. You open it, Yellow/Black/Purple. Purchase another one. Orange/Pink/White. Another one. And another one. Finally, you get a blue dye. Amazing. You go to apply it, and...

You realize you need 2 more to fully dye your helmet blue. You then realize you've got the rest of your outfit to dye as well, and they all have multiple dye slots.

To help alleviate the issue, you can recycle two dyes to create another random one. Here's the thing, however. To fully dye an outfit, the same shade, you're going to continuously need to invest more and more into the RNG boxes and hope you luck out. Also, you can't put these up on the auction house. The only way to play the dye game is to pull out your wallet.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Let's be real here. I understand you can't run servers with air and good intentions. However, to me, this is just downright ridiculous. The costumes are pricy, yes. But you at least know what you're going to be getting after your purchase, there's no random element there. You purchase the magic skimpy feather outfit, you're getting the magic skimpy feather outfit.

This is completely different.

Here, you're investing money - repeatedly - for the chance to get a look going. Now, to avoid redundancy, let's highlight a few things.

What is good:

  • Extremely wide costume dye options. (Many areas and details are dye-able)
  • Multiple shades of color. (Scarlet, Burgundy, Crimson rather than flat-out red)
  • Focus on vanity for cash flow over power. (Cash shop is cosmetic/convenient)

What is bad:

  • Multiple shades of color. While a plus, this also works against the player in the sense that if you're trying to say - be all black like an edgy teenager, you could risk running around with faded shades of dark grey simply because you don't wish to continuously play the random game.
  • Players don't know what they're paying money for. RNG + Money = Bad Time, in general. That can work with a Korean market, not with a Western one.
  • The aformentioned is compounded when one considers the lack of game-obtainable armor variety, players have little choice but to resort to the cash shop.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Attached to the thread is a poll. Here's my logic behind each question:

"What are your thoughts on RNG boxes?" 

  RNG is an extremely common thing in MMOs. Many players are used to them to the degree that it doesn't really matter. Each player stems from a different available income that they're willing to invest into the game. I feel it's important to ask this question up-front to identify what is the problem with the dye system. Is it: A) The RNG? B) The single-use? C) Both?

"Let's talk solutions: Out of the options below, which appeals the most to you? (Be reasonable.)"

So, now that we've identified the problem, let's try to propose a fix. I feel most of these options are self explanatory, but what's more important to focus on is the fact that players are voicing their opinion in a manner that both identifies the problem and suggests how to fix it. The be reasonable quip means exactly that: Be reasonable. Servers don't run on thin air, and the $30 you spent for the game (and all the other trinkets you get with higher preorders) is hardly enough to sustain the game long-term. There is no subscription either for which to draw funds from, meaning that they're going to need to get their money from somewhere. I feel each suggestion bears enough merit to appease both sides of the debate.

"As a player, how important is appearance to you?"

 Finally, we hit the real question. Personally, I predict most people are going to say that their appearance means quite a bit to them. One of this game's finest selling points is the marvelous character creator, with the second being the game's graphics and overall appearance. While many stand by the stern "I don't care about the cute girl avatars, I'm just here to kill things" argument (which is fine), many on the other side do care quite a bit on their character's appearance - since it's how they personally interact with the game.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So, all that said, please voice your opinions below and vote in the polls. Let's see where this goes. If I've made any mistakes, please let me know, I'll edit it up as soon as I can.

Cheers.


 

maxresdefault.jpg

Personally, I feel the heart of the problem lies in dyes not being multi-use. You can have RNG all day but the single-use pushes for more and more consistent purchases to try and get the same shade. It's insane.

Edited by Bee
Typo.
21 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Either make them multi use AND/OR chose which one ( preferably both )

You can keep a RNG box for lets say 20pearls and a chose box for 50pearls ( i would buy the later one ).

Problem with the RNG is mostly we cant sell/buy dye at AH because else RL money -> silver.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Dyes should be infinite and at least some basic ones should be there for free.

If someone wants to RNG for that special dye that's ok.

Best option would of course be free dies for all. Basics of all RPG games. Unique looks should be a cornerstone and not a cashcow.

Edited by Rune_Thor
5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Either make them multi use AND/OR chose which one ( preferably both )

You can keep a RNG box for lets say 20pearls and a chose box for 50pearls ( i would buy the later one ).

Problem with the RNG is mostly we cant sell/buy dye at AH because else RL money -> silver.

A lot of the feedback from threads I find seems to be that people have a bottomless pit for a wallet. As far as this thread, specifically, I feel we're unlike to get both from Daum. Any change at all is an improvement from the tragedy that it is at the moment. From the way the votes're going, it seems the problem is mostly how they're single-use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Just make dyes permanent. RNG, fine. But make them so you can swap them like GW2. With that being the only real comparison, people will draw from it.

7 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

They should be multiuse or permanentely unlocked for sure. The RNG can stay or go.... but they HAVE TO BE MULTI USE, SINCE WE CANNOT BUY THEM WITH IN GAME CURRENCY.

@Daum

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Just make dyes permanent. RNG, fine. But make them so you can swap them like GW2. With that being the only real comparison, people will draw from it.

I doubt they'll be so easy to replace a-la GW2. 'Multi-use' doesn't exactly mean permanent, and Daum'd be losing a lot of pocket change if they did go the permanent route. If they gave dyes, say, 10 uses a pop, then I'd be happy.

Also, I should mention, people that think the current system is fine, please don't vote in the second question. I forgot to include an option for no action.

My bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

I doubt they'll be so easy to replace a-la GW2. 'Multi-use' doesn't exactly mean permanent, and Daum'd be losing a lot of pocket change if they did go the permanent route. If they gave dyes, say, 10 uses a pop, then I'd be happy.

How about if they make some content we actually want to buy and stop playing whit this ridiculous RNG dyes thing.

This just shows the laziness of the devs of actually putting in some work and just cashing on pointless things.

If they get payed for doing nothing than nothing they will do.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Yep, make dye permanent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I have purchased a total of one single RNG box in the 18 years I've been playing MMO's.

The reason I have only bought one is because I play MMO's for entertainment. If the type of entertainment I was after was gambling with real money, I would go to a casino, not log into a MMO.

Anything being sold behind a RNG box is instantly off my purchase list.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I have purchased a total of one single RNG box in the 18 years I've been playing MMO's.

The reason I have only bought one is because I play MMO's for entertainment. If the type of entertainment I was after was gambling with real money, I would go to a casino, not log into a MMO.

Anything being sold behind a RNG box is instantly off my purchase list.

I, for the most part, agree. However, I can't help but empathize with the game's KR roots. Money + RNG in video games' a popular concept overseas, and it's how many games keep their players hooked. I won't pretend to take a full stance against it. RNG, fine. Single-use for continuing, drained purchases? Absolutely not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Make dyes player tradeable via AH 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Make dyes player tradeable via AH 

Interesting. A question, if this does happen - should dyes be price controlled by the players or should this be something that is locked by Daum? Personally, I feel this option's not as enticing as the others since it's a link to $ --> Silver. Buy dyes, sell them in AH. You land a black or some other heavily demanded dye (Abyss in GW2), grats - you're loaded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

A simple solution is this.

Dyes aren't tradeable or able to be put on AH ( it causes to many issues in the later game when people will be putting RL cash to get ingame money to get high end gear = bad gameplay)

Dyes stay the same price but go from being a one time use to a perm item.

Dyes stay RNG from the box but you won't get copies.

Dye packs in the future release for $50 ( 50 dyes of a set you like for $50 aint bad tbh :P)

P.S i was using $1 per dye as a example i would more expect them to be like $25 for 50 dyes but 1:1 was a good way to say it

Edited by Vilemouse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Making dyes tradeable in the auction hall for silver is just downright ridiculous. There would be no point to have buy2play anymore just by that one factor alone. Selling anything for silver from paying in the cash shop defeats the entire purpose of buy2play and fair play. It should NEVER happen. It wouldn't make any sense whatsoever to do so.

Making dyes 1:1 tradeable with any other dye is another story, but the unwanted dyes would still need to be recycled, so there would still be rng. Better than what we have now though.

Edited by Cider

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

Interesting. A question, if this does happen - should dyes be price controlled by the players or should this be something that is locked by Daum? Personally, I feel this option's not as enticing as the others since it's a link to $ --> Silver. Buy dyes, sell them in AH. You land a black or some other heavily demanded dye (Abyss in GW2), grats - you're loaded.

You are exactly right. If the prices are player controlled, there is always the possibility that dyes that are highly favoured (eg. blue, black and red) will be super high. People that are lucky enough to get any of these popular colours will make themselves a bank. Also, rich people will continue to buy these RNG boxes hoping for a jackpot item and thus converting real life money into in-game silver.

Imo, the price should be locked in my Daum like the rest of the in-game items... this will prevent imbalance tip in the market.... Although ofc, there will always people qq-ing about not making enough silver from the amount of money they spent on dye boxes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

Dye packs in the future release for $50 ( 50 dyes of a set you like for $50 aint bad tbh :P)

 

This is an option that I picked up from your thread after the poll was made. Truthfully, I like the idea of paying a premium to unlock all dyes for a month (or at least a significant amount). It certainly beats rolling the dice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

I, for the most part, agree. However, I can't help but empathize with the game's KR roots. Money + RNG in video games' a popular concept overseas, and it's how many games keep their players hooked. I won't pretend to take a full stance against it. RNG, fine. Single-use for continuing, drained purchases? Absolutely not.

I would be willing to drop $5 to unlock a permanent account-wide color set.

So for example, if I wanted to make my armor blue, black, and white, I would need to buy the blue, black, and white dye sets for $5 each. That equals the cost of subscribing to a MMO for a month.

I've bought color sets in games before (like Warframe), I just won't buy RNG. That isn't a legitimate way to sell products, in my opinion. It would be like going to a restaurant and paying for a dish, but rather than the steak you wanted the chef decided you're going to eat tomato bisque instead, then being told if you want a steak you have to order another dish and maybe you'll get one.

Hell, even if the $5 unlocked only a single shade of color, rather than the color set, I'd still prefer that - provided they implement a dye tub system like Ultima Online had where you could pay other players to use their dye tub to color objects for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

This is an option that I picked up from your thread after the poll was made. Truthfully, I like the idea of paying a premium to unlock all dyes for a month (or at least a significant amount). It certainly beats rolling the dice.

If thats the case daum should have really made the game F2P and NOT B2P. 

That 'premium' you are speaking of is just another small form of subscription. >_> 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I would be willing to drop $5 to unlock a permanent account-wide color set.

So for example, if I wanted to make my armor blue, black, and white, I would need to buy the blue, black, and white dye sets for $5 each. That equals the cost of subscribing to a MMO for a month.

I've bought color sets in games before (like Warframe), I just won't buy RNG. That isn't a legitimate way to sell products, in my opinion. It would be like going to a restaurant and paying for a dish, but rather than the steak you wanted the chef decided you're going to eat tomato bisque instead, then being told if you want a steak you have to order another dish and maybe you'll get one.

Hell, even if the $5 unlocked only a single shade of color, rather than the color set, I'd still prefer that - provided they implement a dye tub system like Ultima Online had where you could pay other players to use their dye tub to color objects for you.

Interesting. Here's a question: Say there's 10 shades per primary color (Purely or example, I don't know the actual #).

How much would you be willing to pay for all 10, directly? How much is a single dye (shade irrelevant) really supposed to be worth, in your opinion?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Making dyes tradeable in the auction hall for silver is just downright ridiculous. There would be no point to have buy2play anymore just by that one factor alone. Selling anything for silver from paying in the cash shop defeats the entire purpose of buy2play and fair play. It should NEVER happen. It wouldn't make any sense whatsoever to do so.

AFAIK a fair amount of the cash shop items are able to be sold on the auction house. Furniture was one I'd been told about, and the costumes appear to be Bind on Equip (rather than Pickup). Dyes being traded wouldn't be out of place if that's the case.

edit: Am told that won't be the case in NA/Euro version. Thanks Schmandlord.

Edited by scau
corrected

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

If thats the case daum should have really made the game F2P and NOT B2P. 

That 'premium' you are speaking of is just another small form of subscription. >_> 

Idk why you have issues with companies needing to make money.. it doesn't instantly stop costing them a heap of money to run the game after your initial purchase

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Interesting. Here's a question: Say there's 10 shades per primary color (Purely or example, I don't know the actual #).

How much would you be willing to pay for all 10, directly? How much is a single dye (shade irrelevant) really supposed to be worth, in your opinion?

10€ is it is account wide

5€/character

AFAIK a fair amount of the cash shop items are able to be sold on the auction house. Furniture was one I'd been told about, and the costumes appear to be Bind on Equip (rather than Pickup). Dyes being traded wouldn't be out of place if that's the case.

KR/JP yes. We wont have that ( DAUM said so )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Interesting. Here's a question: Say there's 10 shades per primary color (Purely or example, I don't know the actual #).

How much would you be willing to pay for all 10, directly? How much is a single dye (shade irrelevant) really supposed to be worth, in your opinion?

Here's another question, lets say there are 10 shades of black.

True Black has a 1% chance to drop, light black 2%, medium black 3% and light black to muddy off grey is about 15-20% each.

Knowing this would you even consider buying single use character bound RNG dyes when you are looking for true black or any other deep colour that has a 1% drop?

Edited by illgot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

good poll

remove RNG from dyes or make them multi use (5+) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites