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PayToWin in this game is not the same as others games.

159 posts in this topic

Posted

I read many posts about what people considered to be as PayToWin and I think people some people have very narrow view of it. Some people mentioned "As long as it is not effected in battle, then it is not PayToWin". I can tell you that you are WRONG.

Age of Wushu, a Chinese based sandbox type game where you can PvP anywhere, anytime and with many activities that is similar to this game, but with Eastern theme.

Why am I mentioning this game? Because it is the same reasons I argue in that game for the first 2 years about what is PayToWin in that game and many people keep defend it to no end. After the first year, many kind of realize it and after the second year, many finally realize what I said.

What is considered to be PayToWin in that game? PAY TO PROGRESS.

Why is this considered PayToWin you may ask? Unlike traditional MMO where you spend like a 3 to 10 days or so and get to max level and then finally on your path to get end games gears. Age of Wushu like Black Desert Online has NO LEVEL CAP. Rather, in Age of Wushu, they have school internal level where you get first internal level, then wait a set period of time for game publisher to release second internal level up to currently sixth internal skill level in the latest update.

So why is it PayToWIn if players who paid real money get to level faster? Because of NO LEVEL CAP, therefore LEVEL = POWER.

 

Consider this, a game with NO LEVEL CAP, whoever get to higher level first will get new skills, more stats, and (better equipment?). They will have advantage in PvP and since most of things they paid for doesn't effect them directly in battle, but allow them to be stronger faster, therefore the support they got to get there is in of a way PayToWin.

You may argue others can get there eventually right? That's the problem in of itself. It is a never ending of racing, where paid players will get there ahead, then normal players will chase after. However, the problem is for example a level take like 1000 hours for normal players would require only 750 hours for paid players. Then next level will be the same and next and next. Paid players will always be ahead of normal players if both of them play the same amount of time and spent the same amount of effort. Therefore paid players will always have advantage in term of stats and skills compared to normal players.

 

Many of you may argue, XP boosted and such also exist in others games, so it is not a big deal. WRONG.

Like I said again and again, this game has NO LEVEL CAP. In other games with level cap, XP boosted only affect to the cap level and that's it. Others will have time to catch up and then everything will become balance in term of level (this post doesn't argue about end game equipment) However, it is not the same in this game where there is an always a chase between normal players trying to catch up to paid players.

 

With all that said, I also realize many things in this game is not as bad as Age of Wushu where Snail (game company) allow players to inject money into faster level internal, skills and such. Where you pay money for premium to offline leveling, get far better skills and such

 

However, the concept is still the same, what is not PayToWin in other games will be different in this game. Remember, NO LEVEL CAP will change what the definition of what is PayToWin and what is not. The -10% death penalty in sense also a PAY TO PROGRESS as well.

 

 

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Posted

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Posted

Maybe

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Posted (edited)

Let me get this straight, exp boosts are now pay 2 win ? you people will always fuking complain no matter how good you have it. The game needs to make revenue u know, and cosmetics and vanity items arent gonna cut it. 10% extra exp is  nothing when leveling technically you will be at 80% EXP and the other with 90% exp with only costume, how is that a big deal ?. Enough with this sh1t.

Edited by DazeR
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Posted

This is why I put important words all in CAPITALIZE WORDS.

I kind of want to explain more about Age of Wushu (Age of BULLSHIT), but lost in thought and realize it would be much longer, so skipped it, lol.

Let me get this straight, exp boosts are now pay 2 win ? you people will always fuking complain no matter how good you have it. The game needs to make revenue u know, and cosmetics and vanity items arent gonna cut it. 10% extra exp is  nothing when leveling technically you will be at 80% EXP and the other with 90% exp how is that a big deal ?. Enough with this sh1t.

You obviously never read the entire post. It is not PayToWin in other games, but in NO LEVEL CAP game, it is.

Seriously, you are the same white knight defenders I have in Age of Wushu, narrow view and guess what? Most of them quit the game in 1.5 years or so. Some just die hard continue to defend after 2 years when everyone's else finally see what I am talking about.

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Posted

game has been out for about a year or so and only a few have past 60 thats including with exp buffs sooooo im not seeing the issue here

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Posted

game has been out for about a year or so and only a few have past 60 thats including with exp buffs sooooo im not seeing the issue here

The issue is with more time. Few have past level 60 mainly those with lots of items, equipment that have XP Boosted.

It is not a big issue when within 1000 hours. However, open your mind and realize this, with like 25% xp boosted,

1000 hours for normal players, 750 hours for paid players.                    250 hours saved.

2000 hours for normal players, 1500 hours for paid players.                  500 hours saved.

5000 hours for normal players, 3750 hours for paid players.                  1250 hours saved.

10000 hours for normal players, 7500 hours for paid players.                2500 hours saved.

And continue on, with 1 year of playing, paid players save around 3 months. Do you really think this is not a big issue now? Not to mention -10% death penalty, this will be HUGE, everyone will PvP in some point, the price get lessen is a big problem since some are willing to die for like 10 times, but with -10% death penalty allows that person to die 11 times, and it continues to grow with more deaths.

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Posted

This is why I put important words all in CAPITALIZE WORDS.

 

You should take the time to learn about the useful punctuation mark known as the em dash: http://www.thepunctuationguide.com/em-dash.html

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Posted

Nah, it's not an issue. It's not pay to win. Refund and go elsewhere, nobody wants to hear/see your crap.

Nobody or only you? Funny you think you are protecting the game when you are just closed your eyes and ears.

If I care nothing about this game, I would just ignore everything and move on. Read history, many countries got destroy because people like you who just tell others to shut up and some go out and kill any people who complaints. The result is the country will get worse and worse. Nothing progress, since no complaint, the rulers will think everything is fine and continue that way until people got suppress no longer and eventually everything fall apart.

 

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Posted

WTS 5 Apex.  Serious offers only.

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Posted

The issue is with more time. Few have past level 60 mainly those with lots of items, equipment that have XP Boosted.

It is not a big issue when within 1000 hours. However, open your mind and realize this, with like 25% xp boosted,

1000 hours for normal players, 750 hours for paid players.                    250 hours saved.

2000 hours for normal players, 1500 hours for paid players.                  500 hours saved.

5000 hours for normal players, 3750 hours for paid players.                  1250 hours saved.

10000 hours for normal players, 7500 hours for paid players.                2500 hours saved.

And continue on, with 1 year of playing, paid players save around 3 months. Do you really think this is not a big issue now? Not to mention -10% death penalty, this will be HUGE, everyone will PvP in some point, the price get lessen is a big problem since some are willing to die for like 10 times, but with -10% death penalty allows that person to die 11 times, and it continues to grow with more deaths.

seems you have not played this game maybe do a little research first and then post your opinion might help your cause a bit

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Posted

I like how people are saying the stats are nothing but are still defending the costumes having them.

People dont need them to buy costumes proven again and again by the biggest players in the online market.

I dont care but it smells like " dont take away my win cuz i really really want it so badly " 

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Posted

Changing soft caps negate your arguement. Sorry. No level cap isn't applicable. There's no max level, but every time they move the soft cap everyone catches up. Also gear>lvl. Not p2w. 

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Posted

seems you have not played this game maybe do a little research first and then post your opinion might help your cause a bit

^This. Because if you play a game for a full year you don't spend 100% of that time grinding. The player without a bonus could be far ahead of the player with the xp bonus if one grinds a lot more than the other. The OP is throwing around meaningless numbers in a desperate attempt to lend credit to unsupported claims. 

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Posted

seems you have not played this game maybe do a little research first and then post your opinion might help your cause a bit

Oh, you mean level only increase skill?

However, I am talking about many skill do increase stats. I am merely using basic math to demonstrate the amount of time saved. 1 years to get past 60 like that person said, it will save them at least 3 months.

Read the skills, some skills increase stats like Valkyrie has +melee defense, + magic defense and + ranged defense.

Or Wizard with more cast speed, at level 82 which maybe 3-4 years later, +2% casting speed.

Seriously? You're going to compare the destruction of nations to someone telling you to buzz of over your opinion of bonus xp in a video game?

I guess we better take you seriously now or nations around the globe will fall into chaos. Disease, famine, war, and death will certainly follow if we fail to heed your wisdom.

Rise up BDO community. Make your voices heard lest we have the nations of the world fall to sunder. 

 Thank you for being entertaining. You may retire for the night, jester. 

It is an example. A nation is a ruler (developers, companies) to players (citizens). Seriously, you think it has no connection?

What if noone complaint in forum? The company will think they are getting to the right direction, they will continue that way and anyone who tried to complaint will be either get ban or white knight defenders told them to shut up.

What will it lead? Suppression until everything fall apart. Many MMO have this problem where the company won't listen and defenders tried to shut people up.

Funny you tried so hard, yet so uneducated about this matter. You can learn lots of thing from how a nation work since everything's else is just a much more break down scale of it.

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Posted

Oh, you mean level only increase skill?

However, I am talking about many skill do increase stats. I am merely using basic math to demonstrate the amount of time saved. 1 years to get past 60 like that person said, it will save them at least 3 months.

Read the skills, some skills increase stats like Valkyrie has +melee defense, + magic defense and + ranged defense.

Or Wizard with more cast speed, at level 82 which maybe 3-4 years later, +2% casting speed.

You are making an unrealistic assumption that 100% of the time a player spends in game in grinding. You're trying to support your view by giving completely irrelevant examples because there is no support to your argument. I'll have the XP bonus and I loath grinding. I have friends that will never spend a dime in the shop and they'll keep ahead of me and hit soft cap far faster than me. It's all about how much time each player spends. You're false assumption is that all players will spend an equal amount of time grinding. Setp outside your fallacy and see the larger picture. When you do that you'll see that with the vast differences in time spend in game, grinding, fishing, breeding, PvPing, crafting, socializing, and much more the differences fade away and it all comes down to how much time you dedicate to the grind versus how much time others dedicate. All things are not equal in those areas of time commitment so your theoretical point is mute. 

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Posted (edited)

You can get all those by 55 with the exception of the 56, 57, 58, 59, and 60 hp buffs. This is a non issue. If it was those of us who play KR and wanted NA to nor have any p2w would be flipping out. Instead it's people who haven't played saying "numbers in cash shop bad, ermagawd p2w". It's not an issue.

Edited by Estokha
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Posted

combat xp and character xp are not the same bro we get character xp not combat you dont get all that many skill from character level like i said do a bit of research you will understand that the xp boost means nothing. I would also state for the record that i dont give a shit if the buff exists or not but they really do mean nothing 

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Posted

Nobody or only you? Funny you think you are protecting the game when you are just closed your eyes and ears.

I personally don't want to hear your crap, so go elsewhere please.

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Posted

It is an example. A nation is a ruler (developers, companies) to players (citizens). Seriously, you think it has no connection?

What if noone complaint in forum? The company will think they are getting to the right direction, they will continue that way and anyone who tried to complaint will be either get ban or white knight defenders told them to shut up.

What will it lead? Suppression until everything fall apart. Many MMO have this problem where the company won't listen and defenders tried to shut people up.

Funny you tried so hard, yet so uneducated about this matter. You can learn lots of thing from how a nation work since everything's else is just a much more break down scale of it.

You're wading into a sea of fallacies in an effort to support your claims. If you present a viable argument that survives a critical analysis then you'll gain support. Analogizing your argument does not make it true. You're trying desperately to draw parallels that are unsupported. 

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Posted

You are making an unrealistic assumption that 100% of the time a player spends in game in grinding. You're trying to support your view by giving completely irrelevant examples because there is no support to your argument. I'll have the XP bonus and I loath grinding. I have friends that will never spend a dime in the shop and they'll keep ahead of me and hit soft cap far faster than me. It's all about how much time each player spends. You're false assumption is that all players will spend an equal amount of time grinding. Setp outside your fallacy and see the larger picture. When you do that you'll see that with the vast differences in time spend in game, grinding, fishing, breeding, PvPing, crafting, socializing, and much more the differences fade away and it all comes down to how much time you dedicate to the grind versus how much time others dedicate. All things are not equal in those areas of time commitment so your theoretical point is mute. 

Hahaha, now you are trying so hard to defend. We are talking about PayToWin element. The most basic of thing is LEVEL. Sure they can do other things, but grinding also is the NUMBER ONE SOURCE OF INCOME.

What the point of your posts? We are talking about the amount of time saved by using XP boosts item and equipment. This will affect PvP, guild wars and any other type of PvPing related including your fishing afk which people could kill you, lol.

You're wading into a sea of fallacies in an effort to support your claims. If you present a viable argument that survives a critical analysis then you'll gain support. Analogizing your argument does not make it true. You're trying desperately to draw parallels that are unsupported. 

And you so far provide nothing to counter my argument and just try to tell me to shut up like others. Seriously, this is what I expected from white knight defenders. Nothing has changed since Age of BULLSHIT time, I will just come back 1 years later or so and told them "I told you so, shut up and listen", but then half of them already quit the game by then.

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Posted (edited)

@dhaos since you ignore attempts to inform you of how bdo plays out, just pour water on your motherboard and call it a day. 

One last feeble attempt.. if you look at my past posts I'm very anti p2w and I have 5 months of bdo play time. This is not an issue, there's no p2w in na/eu at this time.

Edited by Estokha

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Posted

don't really think it's p2w, too many variables at play here. It's convenient yeah, but, there's just so many factors involved including overall grinding style, strategy, what class you're grinding with, and enchants, that even if you have a 25% exp bonus someone could still be grinding at 2x the faster rate then you. You might as well call having different classes pay to win because of the difference in aoe grinding potential. He can gain 35% more exp then me because he's playing a witch, p2w!!

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Posted

Hahaha, now you are trying so hard to defend. We are talking about PayToWin element. The most basic of thing is LEVEL. Sure they can do other things, but grinding also is the NUMBER ONE SOURCE OF INCOME.

What the point of your posts? We are talking about the amount of time saved by using XP boosts item and equipment. This will affect PvP, guild wars and any other type of PvPing related including your fishing afk which people could kill you, lol.

You joined the community one hour ago. How much time have you really invested into educating yourself about the effects of bonuses offered through the shop? 

If you think 10% xp is such a big deal go find a game that doesn't offer any bonus xp through cash shop means. It isn't going away. 


I've prepared a seat for you. I'm sure you'll get a lot of use out of it while you're here arguing. 

 

3450910519_0739fe4c95_b.jpg

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Posted

Dhaos just stop you are hurting my head you seem to not really know what goes on in this game buff or not does not matter but if you think grinding is the number one source of income and that its super die hard P2W this might just not be the game for you. But if you are interested in this game really take a day take 2 days read watch streams grinding makes good money but a good fisher can make more crafters can make more honestly the only way i see grinding the number one way is if you are a wiz/witch

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