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PayToWin in this game is not the same as others games.

159 posts in this topic

Posted

The same people defending the stats ( atleast some of them ) already said games like GW2 is p2w.

Small stast matter for minmaxing ( everyone else doesnt care about bonus stats anyway ).

Pets gather drops => you save time => you can grind more => more money => more power

Sets give movementspeed => you save time walking => you can grind more => more money => more power

Thanks to this 2 Players doing the exactly same thing otherwise will have a different in their power levels => p2w.

The power given by costumes is minimal at best YES BUT it is still there so for the sake of shutting this up they should remove the bonus on them.

People would still buy them. The ones saying they are only buying the costsumes because of the bonus are acknowledging them to a level where they matter -> p2w again.

Whereas if everyone truly believes they dont matter AT ALL we could easily remove them. Again just for the sake of shutting down these discussions.

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Posted

don't really think it's p2w, too many variables at play here. It's convenient yeah, but, there's just so many factors involved including overall grinding style, strategy, what class you're grinding with, and enchants, that even if you have a 25% exp bonus someone could still be grinding at 2x the faster rate then you. You might as well call having different classes pay to win because of the difference in aoe grinding potential. He can gain 35% more exp then me because he's playing a witch, p2w!!

True, but this is from the basic point of the amount of time saved when conditions are equals.

You can't deny the fact that if same group leveling in the same location with the same parties or just a single person. The amount of time they saved would be a HUGE DIFFERENT.

Like I said, 1 years of playing, 3 months of time saved is a lot. and continue to 2 years and more.

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Posted

So tired of these threads. You don't need to pay to progress in this game. The benefits afforded by the cash shop items are negligible, especially because you can get everything except pets in game. If you can't afford $12 dollars for a full complement of pets, that's your problem, not mine. 

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Posted

I can't see the point of this topic.

In a game with no level cap you have to accept that some people will be ahead of you, with or without experience boosts, also, getting closer to 60 the exp curve so high that its almost impossible to make it, and you also lose experience when you die.

You can also kill higher level people with skill and better gear anyway.

I don't see the issue.

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Posted

So tired of these threads. You don't need to pay to progress in this game. The benefits afforded by the cash shop items are negligible, especially because you can get everything except pets in game. If you can't afford $12 dollars for a full complement of pets, that's your problem, not mine. 

So -10% death penalty is not a problem? At high level like 60 or so, 10% will afford you to do lots of thing.

As I said, the effect is not to be measure in short time scale, but on a large time scale. Many of us will play this game not for 1 year, but 3-4 years or even more.

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Posted

I can't see the point of this topic.

In a game with no level cap you have to accept that some people will be ahead of you, with or without experience boosts, also, getting closer to 60 the exp curve so high that its almost impossible to make it, and you also lose experience when you die.

You can also kill higher level people with skill and better gear anyway.

I don't see the issue.

If people like you dont see the issue ( i dont do either cuz casual ) why not just remove them for the sake of shutting this threads up?

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Posted

If people like you dont see the issue ( i dont do either cuz casual ) why not just remove them for the sake of shutting this threads up?

Well yes ok, if that makes the community better i'm all in.

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Posted

if things did get out of hand you know they could just raise the softcap and allow slower players to catch up. how ever taking the buffs off wont do anything as soon as they do remove the buff these same people will just move to the next cash shop item and then to the next the only way to shut these people up is to remove the cash shop which means we lose our servers a year down the road

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Posted

if things did get out of hand you know they could just raise the softcap and allow slower players to catch up. how ever taking the buffs off wont do anything as soon as they do remove the buff these same people will just move to the next cash shop item and then to the next the only way to shut these people up is to remove the cash shop which means we lose our servers a year down the road

Right now they are many. Removing them would remove them of them too -> less qq -> good

Also it would make DAUM look like they care -> good PR -> more money

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Posted

I can't see the point of this topic.

In a game with no level cap you have to accept that some people will be ahead of you, with or without experience boosts, also, getting closer to 60 the exp curve so high that its almost impossible to make it, and you also lose experience when you die.

You can also kill higher level people with skill and better gear anyway.

I don't see the issue.

I encounter this problem in Rappelz before they allow lv 100 to get easier. Everyone stopped at lv 90 since it took so long to get level 100. While they stopped, I spent 30 hours to get 1 level with nonstop xp boosted to get level 100 while the next highest level is lv 95.

The result is that in that 1.5 months before the update, I was managed to solo the entire dungeon, basically control that dungeon and able to set tax on it.

Sure I spent lots of time to get lv 100 and after 1.5 months it was so easy to get past 100+, but in that 1.5 months I control the income that entire dungeon, set up tax and become one of the richest player in the game from tax alone since I have noone to even share the tax with.

This game has similar settings with castle siege, territories seine to setup taxes. I can see the same tactics some guild will use to get lots of money for big boosted to get ahead.

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Posted

True, but this is from the basic point of the amount of time saved when conditions are equals.

You can't deny the fact that if same group leveling in the same location with the same parties or just a single person. The amount of time they saved would be a HUGE DIFFERENT.

Like I said, 1 years of playing, 3 months of time saved is a lot. and continue to 2 years and more.

Do you math? 1 year = 12 months. 10% of 12 is 1.2. 

 

3450910519_0739fe4c95_b.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Do you math? 1 year = 12 months. 10% of 12 is 1.2. 

 

3450910519_0739fe4c95_b.jpg

15% from pets + 10% from costumes == 25%.

But it would actually still only be 2.4 months saved because 100%-125% not 100%->75%

Edited by Schmandlord

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Posted

Do you math? 1 year = 12 months. 10% of 12 is 1.2. 

 

3450910519_0739fe4c95_b.jpg

I am talking about 25%, I am sorry you are not using your brain or keep up with the math I use so far.

Seriously, even if I am wrong about character XP boosted, but from the post of 10000 hours saved 2500 hours. From basic math alone, even a 3rd grader could tell that it is 25%, but not you. I guess we are onto something here.

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Posted

I am talking about 25%, I am sorry you are not using your brain or keep up with the math I use so far.

Seriously, even if I am wrong about character XP boosted, but from the post of 10000 hours saved 2500 hours. From basic math alone, even a 3rd grader could tell that it is 25%, but not you. I guess we are onto something here.

Being a smartass before someone comes and says YOUR MATHE IS WRONG SO IS YOUR POINT!!!!11

+25% exp would mean you only need 0.8X the time -> saving "only" 2000 hours

If we can get +100% exp from somewhere else -> without 25% 5000 hours but with 25% 4444 hours -> still more than 500 hours saved.

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Posted

15% from pets + 10% from costumes == 25%.

But it would actually still only be 2.4 months saved because 100%-125% not 100%->75%

True, I didn't think of it. Thanks for pointing it out.

I play many games with PvP and taxes and I can tell you that small things like this allow people to get ahead and with the tax will allow people to get further ahead.

I did join many good guilds in the past and enjoy this glory. However, I am much older now and don't have much time and energy to invest like before.

Since from my experience, I am just scaring that this game will follow the footsteps of those games.

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Posted

What's wrong wit hpay to win? people work hard t oearn money so they can choose to spend it on whatever they want. You still have to work. heck you work harder for money than grinding ingame because some people don't have jobs that they like. Why complain? If you don't like paying for the game then just move along and don't try to justify your opinion on people who find other ways to level.

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Posted

I encounter this problem in Rappelz before they allow lv 100 to get easier. Everyone stopped at lv 90 since it took so long to get level 100. While they stopped, I spent 30 hours to get 1 level with nonstop xp boosted to get level 100 while the next highest level is lv 95.

The result is that in that 1.5 months before the update, I was managed to solo the entire dungeon, basically control that dungeon and able to set tax on it.

Sure I spent lots of time to get lv 100 and after 1.5 months it was so easy to get past 100+, but in that 1.5 months I control the income that entire dungeon, set up tax and become one of the richest player in the game from tax alone since I have noone to even share the tax with.

This game has similar settings with castle siege, territories seine to setup taxes. I can see the same tactics some guild will use to get lots of money for big boosted to get ahead.

at what % were these boosters?

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Posted

Being a smartass before someone comes and says YOUR MATHE IS WRONG SO IS YOUR POINT!!!!11

+25% exp would mean you only need 0.8X the time -> saving "only" 2000 hours

If we can get +100% exp from somewhere else -> without 25% 5000 hours but with 25% 4444 hours -> still more than 500 hours saved.

Yes, and I admit my mistake, unlike that guy who somehow tried to humiliate me with his 10% and picture from it. I guess you also like to defend his way.

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Posted

Yes, and I admit my mistake, unlike that guy who somehow tried to humiliate me with his 10% and picture from it. I guess you also like to defend his way.

nope im actually defending you by pointing out the mistakes and making you able to correct them thus strengthening your point before they come in and call "math is wrong -> opinion is invalid" as they have proven to do before.

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Posted

So -10% death penalty is not a problem? At high level like 60 or so, 10% will afford you to do lots of thing.

As I said, the effect is not to be measure in short time scale, but on a large time scale. Many of us will play this game not for 1 year, but 3-4 years or even more.

So you're telling me a person who is HEAVILY invested in the game playing 3-4 years will not be able to chip in 30$ to buy something that may save them a lot of time grinding, because this is your assumption. In your argument, you assume that someone with 3-4 years experience in the game would spend 0$ in the shop. When you compare two people who are very invested in the game for 2 years+, I can assure you that they would be more than happy to buy the outfit as part of the experience as well as the 10% exp boost so there really is no problem. You call it pay to win? To who? Who is winning besides the person who spends the most time in the game?
Pay to win in its most toxic form is measured in the amount of advantages a player can get in a short time scale by investing tons of money in the cash shop. If it takes 3-4 years to really see the benefits  in your "this marginal exp boost is p2w wah" mentality, then you do not know how pay to win works at all.

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Posted

What's wrong wit hpay to win? people work hard t oearn money so they can choose to spend it on whatever they want. You still have to work. heck you work harder for money than grinding ingame because some people don't have jobs that they like. Why complain? If you don't like paying for the game then just move along and don't try to justify your opinion on people who find other ways to level.

How much money can you spend? I was in a few games with top guild where people could spend 5000+ dollars into the game to get ahead.

In the case of Age of Wushu where 2 people in my guild spent over 10000+ USD and the enemy guild with 1 person spent almost 20000 dollars. 2 people in my guild, 1 have a private jet and another has a family owned casino.

Do you think you can spend or work hard enough to get to that level? Isn't the whole point of this post to talk about P2W and prevent such things?

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Posted

popcorn.gif

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Posted

popcorn.gif

Hahaha, this same picture also posted in Age of Wushu when I talk about P2W as well. Really nostalgic.

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Posted

The term pay to win is grossly abused. It has become a taboo and I believe people are starting to abusing (well started long ago) for their agenda.

They know companies do everything possible to distance themselves from the stigma and thus try to use the term to blackmail said companies into doing what them want them to do. I think, maybe wrong but suspect I am not, some just dont want to buy anything off the market and while they dont care about cosmetics they care about maximizing everything so even though costumes might give a small 10% XP boost they have to have that and thus try to stripe that boost so they can safely ignore the cashshop since it would be selling nothing they care about. 

Whats my basis for this? when Guild wars 2 launched people still argued it is pay to win even though devs went to extreme lengths to make sure it just couldnt be. What argument was used back then? Guild wars 2 endgame is exclusively cosmetic thus buying cosmetic items off the cash shop is pay to win. 

People, MMOs arent perfectly balanced machines. Sure 25% extra XP may seem like a big advantage but its not. Not everyone can play the exact amount of time and if anything mechanics like these level the playfield rather then create an advantage. Someone who works long hours can never put in the same amount of time as a student or someone looking for a job for example. These things bring balance there rather then upset it.Even then ultimately its a matter of time, worst case it will take those who do not get the same boost a bit longer but its never going to be an advantage that cant be countered without spending money. Sure there is no level cap and sure progressing makes you more powerful but keep in mind the leveling curve is exponential, it takes more then 25% more effort to get to the next level once you go beyond the soft cap and thus catching up for anyone who doesnt have these buffs will get easier and easier. 

We as players really need to start to be careful how we use terms. Pay to win used to mean something, now it seems to me it means nothing more then this cash shop is selling stuff I would feel inclined to buy and thats bad imho.

 

 

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Posted

So you're telling me a person who is HEAVILY invested in the game playing 3-4 years will not be able to chip in 30$ to buy something that may save them a lot of time grinding, because this is your assumption. In your argument, you assume that someone with 3-4 years experience in the game would spend 0$ in the shop. When you compare two people who are very invested in the game for 2 years+, I can assure you that they would be more than happy to buy the outfit as part of the experience as well as the 10% exp boost so there really is no problem. You call it pay to win? To who? Who is winning besides the person who spends the most time in the game?Pay to win in its most toxic form is measured in the amount of advantages a player can get in a short time scale by investing tons of money in the cash shop. If it takes 3-4 years to really see the benefits  in your "this marginal exp boost is p2w wah" mentality, then you do not know how pay to win works at all.

Because there are other costumes, outfits and such.

Like I said, if noone complaint, the company will think they are getting into the right direction and continue that way. This is not the first game that follow this direction.

So if a bank takes a small amount of money from you each month and few people complaint, you think it is fine for them to continue to do it? Because this is a true scenarios where bank will take small chunks in large quantity until enough people complaint. (I read this on net and also called my bank as well).

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