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PayToWin in this game is not the same as others games.

159 posts in this topic

Posted

Ever hear of soft caps and hard caps?

Oh dear.

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Posted

I'm against the experience buffs (or any bonuses on cosmetics) in a game without a hard level cap, but if I get into BDO my first goal will be reaching the 25% experience buff.  I have the conqueror set so that's 10% right there.  I'll dump a few hundred in the cash shop, get the right pets, then a few other items that will help in leveling and making money in game.

But only if I enjoy the game.  Right now I am wrestling with myself and trying to balance whether I want to invest that amount of time and money into a company I really don't trust.

I understand what you're saying but I am not sure this is something that trust has to get into. I mean they're not doing anything shady nor are they doing something "evil" some people consider XP boost P2W true but a lot of people dont. Daum did remove the P2W that have no ambiguity and essentially they didnt have to. Its not like there is an alternative MMO people could escape to! closest is Archeage and a lot of stuff are way worst there. 

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Posted

I'm against the experience buffs (or any bonuses on cosmetics) in a game without a hard level cap, but if I get into BDO my first goal will be reaching the 25% experience buff.  I have the conqueror set so that's 10% right there.  I'll dump a few hundred in the cash shop, get the right pets, then a few other items that will help in leveling and making money in game.

But only if I enjoy the game.  Right now I am wrestling with myself and trying to balance whether I want to invest that amount of time and money into a company I really don't trust.

Right now I am wrestling with myself and trying to balance whether I want to invest that amount of time and money into a company I really don't trust.

Right now I am wrestling with myself and trying to balance whether I want to invest that amount of time and money into a company I really don't trust.

Right now I am wrestling with myself and trying to balance whether I want to invest that amount of time and money into a company I really don't trust.

Right now I am wrestling with myself and trying to balance whether I want to invest that amount of time and money into a company I really don't trust.

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Posted (edited)

 

I understand what you're saying but I am not sure this is something that trust has to get into. I mean they're not doing anything shady nor are they doing something "evil" some people consider XP boost P2W true but a lot of people dont. Daum did remove the P2W that have no ambiguity and essentially they didnt have to. Its not like there is an alternative MMO people could escape to! closest is Archeage and a lot of stuff are way worst there. 

the pay to win aspect is not where i lost trust with Daum.  It is their constant mantra of "we want to be a buy to play model, not a copy of the FTP models in Asia..." yet their cash shop and the game is nearly an exact copy in pricing and cash shop item functionality (no account wide options or permanent options).

 

Edited by illgot

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Posted

Right now I am wrestling with myself and trying to balance whether I want to invest that amount of time and money into a company I really don't trust.

Right now I am wrestling with myself and trying to balance whether I want to invest that amount of time and money into a company I really don't trust.

Right now I am wrestling with myself and trying to balance whether I want to invest that amount of time and money into a company I really don't trust.

Right now I am wrestling with myself and trying to balance whether I want to invest that amount of time and money into a company I really don't trust.

And why dont you trust them? because they said no p2w in cash shop and did a little 25% xp boost?

like I told Illgot, lots of people consider that convenience not an advantage. 

Mind players can use money to gain an advantage in every single MMO, even those without a cash shop (are there any left?). Who's stopping anyone taking a week off work and playing the game! Like I said in a previous post, there is no control on the rate of advancement, its just not balanced.. all this does is simply move the balance a bit but with it or without it it doesnt matter. Some people will get to the top a bit faster then others.

 

 

the pay to win aspect is not where i lost trust with Daum.  It is their constant mantra of "we want to be a buy to play model, not a copy of the FTP models in Asia..." yet their cash shop and the game is nearly an exact copy in pricing and cash shop item functionality (no account wide options or permanent options).

It most certainly has a lot of room for improvement, prices are definitely 2 high, should be slashed to 33% of what they are in my opinion. But its also true they did change a lot of things. That being said it is my understanding there were quite a few drastic changes. That you cant sell stuff you buy from cash shop on the AH is one major incentive for players to spend money gone. I believe (might be wrong) all the loyalty shop doesnt exist in korea so stuff like character slots can only be gotten by paying money etc.. The blessings are quite powerful too. I am sure Pearl abyss were already weary about potentially loosing a lot of income through those changes thats a lot more then a 30 euro one time fee can make up for.

 

So while there is a lot they can do to make things better, prices being on top I wouldnt say that at least in my opinion they broken any trust.

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Posted

And why dont you trust them? because they said no p2w in cash shop and did a little 25% xp boost?

like I told Illgot, lots of people consider that convenience not an advantage. 

Mind players can use money to gain an advantage in every single MMO, even those without a cash shop (are there any left?). Who's stopping anyone taking a week off work and playing the game! Like I said in a previous post, there is no control on the rate of advancement, its just not balanced.. all this does is simply move the balance a bit but with it or without it it doesnt matter. Some people will get to the top a bit faster then others.

It most certainly has a lot of room for improvement, prices are definitely 2 high, should be slashed to 33% of what they are in my opinion. But its also true they did change a lot of things. That being said it is my understanding there were quite a few drastic changes. That you cant sell stuff you buy from cash shop on the AH is one major incentive for players to spend money gone. I believe (might be wrong) all the loyalty shop doesnt exist in korea so stuff like character slots can only be gotten by paying money etc.. The blessings are quite powerful too. I am sure Pearl abyss were already weary about potentially loosing a lot of income through those changes thats a lot more then a 30 euro one time fee can make up for.

 

So while there is a lot they can do to make things better, prices being on top I wouldnt say that at least in my opinion they broken any trust.

Keep in mind I was quoting illgot. Thinking about giving money to a company he does not trust does not seem such a bright idea.

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Posted

Better explanation than your half ass attempt:

 

 

 

 

 

It is ok, lack of insight is quite common.

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Posted

Keep in mind I was quoting illgot. Thinking about giving money to a company he does not trust does not seem such a bright idea.

it really isnt in both an ethical and financial sense.  But then again I quite bored.

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Posted

Keep in mind I was quoting illgot. Thinking about giving money to a company he does not trust does not seem such a bright idea

 

 No its not, not saying he should, just pointing out its a good idea to be sure they diserve the lost trust

it really isnt in both an ethical and financial sense.  But then again I quite bored.

well if you end up doing it anyway dont feel bad happens quite a lot. How many people dont trust big IT corportations but still give them money for they have no alternative :)

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Posted

Gear = Power, not level or skills.

You also forgot that experience can easily be lost in Black Desert. A person could have a 100% exp boost, but never make it past lv50 because he is just too dumb to play and keeps dying.

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Posted

Gear = Power, not level or skills.

You also forgot that experience can easily be lost in Black Desert. A person could have a 100% exp boost, but never make it past lv50 because he is just too dumb to play and keeps dying.

Way to ruin their abstract fantasy.

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Posted

A casual will never catch up to a HC with of without 10% bonus.

A HC will always outlvl a casual that have a 10% bonus.

The difference between 2 HC players one with 10% bonus and the one without will never be too big and you would know that & everyone else who complain about the 10% if you ever played the game after the tutorial phase.

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Posted

Ever hear of soft caps and hard caps?

Oh dear.

Yes, in Rappelz, there are such a cap as well. While everyone still stuck at 90, I got to level 100 and able to get few help with people near my level to get an entire dungeons to tax for it.

Instead of splitting the tax with 50+ people, during those times, my guild of 7 people able to get taxes of one of the dungeon and split the money equal to that of 50 people. With such money, I am able to have enough money to be one the RICHEST person in game. Then I proceed to buy all the +% xp CS items and store it in my storage.

Then when the soft cap is increased, I sold all those +% CS items I bought with the money from dungeon and continue to be the RICHEST person in game and able to afford anything I want for months and continue to do it for the next soft cap.

Then I got bored and stop playing, but my strategy works and allow me and my 7 guild mates to get the best stuffs TWICE in both update.

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Posted

 No its not, not saying he should, just pointing out its a good idea to be sure they diserve the lost trust

What.

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Posted

Gear = Power, not level or skills.

You also forgot that experience can easily be lost in Black Desert. A person could have a 100% exp boost, but never make it past lv50 because he is just too dumb to play and keeps dying.

-10% death penalty for you. There are a price when doing PvP. Something I am willing to PvP for, but with -10% death penalty, I am willing to die "just a little" more in PvP to get what I want.

Not sure if castle siege will have death penalty, but if it is, I am willing to give it for the guild to win and get taxes in return. Or PvPing to kill a boss to get an item. Such little things affect how people play and their mentality of how many death they are willing to give, -10% death penalty may just allow their threshold to die 1 or 2 more times than normal players and get what they want.

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Posted

-10% death penalty for you. There are a price when doing PvP. Something I am willing to PvP for, but with -10% death penalty, I am willing to die "just a little" more in PvP to get what I want.

Not sure if castle siege will have death penalty, but if it is, I am willing to give it for the guild to win and get taxes in return. Or PvPing to kill a boss to get an item. Such little things affect how people play and their mentality of how many death they are willing to give, -10% death penalty may just allow their threshold to die 1 or 2 more times than normal players and get what they want.

The death penalty is 1%, not 10% (as per CBT2 testing).

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Posted

The death penalty is 1%, not 10% (as per CBT2 testing).

I see, nice to know. Still at lv 55+, it will be such a big xp loss.of xp to die and if anything like Lineage 2, you can lose level as well.

-10% death penalty is HUGE in group PvP for morale since people are willing to die just a few more times. Could be a game changer since every little things help.

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Posted

@Dhaos you are literally an idiot. I know this shouldn't be personal but you've exhausted all my patience. You know absolutely nothing about BDO and every post you make highlights your ignorance and complete lack of understanding further. The only thing you should be using your computer for between now and launch is researching the game. Stop talking about the game, you know nothing. Since you know nothing about BDO you're making arguments based on systems from other games that are not this game. That is literally the most insane and idiotic thing I've ever seen. I don't enter an argument about biology armed with my knowledge about nuclear physics. If you're not just deliberately trolling then i literally have no hope for your ability to function as an adult in any society outside of a playground. Please stop posting.

So far the idiot is you. You got nothing, no counter argument at all. You are literally just insult and talk around the subject like politicians with no details at all. You should shut up since you are resorting to the last tactics. You have no reason nor logic, so you go for personal insult.

Seriously, you are just another die hard idiot like in Age of BULLSHIT who keep crapping about telling people to shut up and stop complaint.

The reason I talked so far because I already played game with soft cap and no level limit and personally know what will happen. You on other hands know nothing. Maybe you are making this topic become more toxic with your insulting comments. Seriously, stop talking when you have no experiences with PvP games at all and know what being talk.

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Posted

@dhaos you've ignored every attempt to explain the specifics of BDO to you from veterans of THIS game. Any FACT from bdo EXPERIENCE you gloss over and ignore. Keep on mouth breathing buddy. Maybe you'll choke on a cheeto and save us all the head ache of beating knowledge into your skull.

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Posted

@dhaos you've ignored every attempt to explain the specifics of BDO to you from veterans of THIS game. Any FACT from bdo EXPERIENCE you gloss over and ignore. Keep on mouth breathing buddy. Maybe you'll choke on a cheeto and save us all the head ache of beating knowledge into your skull.

Ignored? Pointless to talk to you since you have no experience with PvP and how it will affect it. Seriously, I have done this many times through various games, not just this one.

You are completely lack in that part and you talk about what? PvP is a big things, it is the only thing that attract lots of people to even play the game.

Having to progress faster allow you to do lots of things, mainly like TAXES which allows you to get better equipment for not only yourself, but your guild.

Seriously, you know nothing about control territories for taxes. People progress faster can achieve that and have more chances to win in big PvP.

It is a head ache to beat knowledge into your skull is what I should say. You are thinking in short terms while I am thinking in long terms and bigger scale. Seriously, it is like talking to a child about the world, the child only know what around them and keep saying "But this will happen" however in a much larger scale, it turns out differently.

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Posted

Better explanation than your half ass attempt:

 

 

 

The problem with linking this video is you're trying to link an xp bonus to the circumvention of difficulty which is not what is happening. Selling instant level boosts does accomplish what this video discusses, giving bonus XP is not the same degree of avoidance. You still need to engage in all of the content that other players do without the xp bonus, you can just do it at a slightly faster pace. 

What this video does not address is the fact that there will always be players like you that do not want to spend a dime and you'll complain about the ways a company entices players to spend cash regardless of the methods employed. You won't be happy unless PA and Daum EU capitulate to your specific concerns. You wouldn't be happy with compromise, you wouldn't be happy with any explanation, you will only be happy if you get your way and you won't.

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Posted

The problem with linking this video is you're trying to link an xp bonus to the circumvention of difficulty which is not what is happening. Selling instant level boosts does accomplish what this video discusses, giving bonus XP is not the same degree of avoidance. You still need to engage in all of the content that other players do without the xp bonus, you can just do it at a slightly faster pace. 

What this video does not address is the fact that there will always be players like you that do not want to spend a dime and you'll complain about the ways a company entices players to spend cash regardless of the methods employed. You won't be happy unless PA and Daum EU capitulate to your specific concerns. You wouldn't be happy with compromise, you wouldn't be happy with any explanation, you will only be happy if you get your way and you won't.

I am linking that video to show people between buying something you enjoy and buying something because it clearly give you an advantage over something.

This is not the first game where people would spend money to buy anything that would give them advantage over others and won't be the last. You can check out most PvP games out there, the first guild that won territories all have things in common. They all have things that give them something to get there faster, be it xp boosted, stats boosts, CS potions and such.

The same things being repeat in this game. The one that got the top first and get enough people that get there to win territories will give them TAXES, which in turn allow them to get better equipment for further grinding.

The problem with you and others are the lack in PvP experiences.

25% combat xp boosted is a big things in a LONG TERMS. Short terms, they get to level 50 faster, everyone will get there as well without them, but the longer you play, the more this will affect.

As I said from my experience in Rappelz, I got to be the top level in the game, use that advantage to get what benefits me the most TAXES. I also applies this on Perfect World, then Rohan, Ethersaga and more.

If 25% combat xp is so small like you said, then get rid off it and be done with it. Less people complaint, more people will actually buy the game, isn't that a better than all this?

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Posted (edited)

I am linking that video to show people between buying something you enjoy and buying something because it clearly give you an advantage over something.

This is not the first game where people would spend money to buy anything that would give them advantage over others and won't be the last. You can check out most PvP games out there, the first guild that won territories all have things in common. They all have things that give them something to get there faster, be it xp boosted, stats boosts, CS potions and such.

The same things being repeat in this game. The one that got the top first and get enough people that get there to win territories will give them TAXES, which in turn allow them to get better equipment for further grinding.

The problem with you and others are the lack in PvP experiences.

25% combat xp boosted is a big things in a LONG TERMS. Short terms, they get to level 50 faster, everyone will get there as well without them, but the longer you play, the more this will affect.

As I said from my experience in Rappelz, I got to be the top level in the game, use that advantage to get what benefits me the most TAXES. I also applies this on Perfect World, then Rohan, Ethersaga and more.

If 25% combat xp is so small like you said, then get rid off it and be done with it. Less people complaint, more people will actually buy the game, isn't that a better than all this?

https://youtu.be/WXA559KNopI?t=5m58s

 

And here's a video by Extra Credit that says selling leveling speed is just fine. As I pointed out, you're trying to twist the meaning of the video you linked to mean something which is does not.

Edited by Dogehn
fixed link

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Posted

The topic is right. It's not the same. It's actually non-existant. :>

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Posted

https://youtu.be/WXA559KNopI?t=5m58s

 

And here's a video by Extra Credit that says selling leveling speed is just fine. As I pointed out, you're trying to twist the meaning of the video you linked to mean something which is does not.

Leveling speed is fine yes because normally a mmo has a hard cap. BDO has a soft cap -> leveling speed matters.

The costumes dont have to have stats. But some %exp is alright. They can remove them if they want to just to shut down such discussions in the future but i ( and many others ) dont really care. As long as there wont be +50% Dmg costumes ( or even just +0.5% dmg ) it should be alright.

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