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PVP Desync - Dash and grab


68 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

RELEASE UPDATE :

Desync is still very much present on release. Desync + CC 5s immunity kills PvP at this point.

At this date there are only 2 topics on the issue of desync, one of which doesn't even have any answers. How come this forum with a so called majority of PvP tryhards don't even pay attention to it ? I have PvP friends with P2W connection that came to the same conclusion : desync is ruining this PvP game, hell even in PvE desync is noticeable.

You can't realistically pretend you even have the tiniest bit of skill/fun playing PvP when desync applies to more than half of skills and CCs.

BDO offers the best combat system, be it on paper atm. It's your turn to be vocal about it to truly make it happen.

Get it together please.

--------------------------

Gfycat Example (meteor KD on dash desync + no meteor animation) Trent 4v4(5?)

Grab/SoJ fail on KD (Location of target is invalid) 1v1 warrior

Grab/SoJ fail on stun porting (Location of target is invalid - Action is restricted) 1v1 warrior

Desync 1v1 warrior

No rush animation + port 1v1 warrior

Grab on dash 1v1 warrior

Grab on dash again 1v1 warrior

Grab slide 1v1 warrior

Sasuke port causing me to miss spear (note red crosshair) 1v1 warrior

KD porting 1v1 sorc

KD slide causing me to miss grab 1v1 sorc

Youtube Desync in duels Berzerker POV - credits to Saws

YOU CAN SLOW DOWN GFY BY MOUSING OVER JUST BELOW THE PICTURE AND CLICKING ON MINUS (-)

Valkyrie CBT2 pov. Dash (Z/W F and shift WASD) and grab skills desyncs way more often that I'd like them to (>50%). I have 20ms ping living in a neightbour country of Germany. I usually am in the most crowded channel (EU Server Jordine often first channel). Reached L50 on second day of CBT2 and pvped actively since then, leading to tens of those example in different situations. I've dueled extensively every class (except for tamer) 1v1 2v2 4v4-7 in multiple locations (arena, owpvp), crowded ones and less crowded (Trent Village is empty in this example) and this desync is a plague no matter what hour or match up.

Can't comment much on the opponents' ping, but I spammed duels with a 90ms warrior and we also noticed many desyncs on both ends. Upon consulting many others reported dash being a desync trap. Oh and forgot to mention invisible effects/animations >.> Max effects settings on a OC i5 2500k with GTX 980Ti and SSD shouldn't cause such issue...

BDO claims to be a playground for massive GvG with fastpaced combat but these conditions make it look unplayable to me even in the simplest 1v1...

Underperforming servers ? Lazy korean netcode ? #dealwithit ?

Link to topic in CBT2 Technical Issues : http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/17610-pvp-desync-dash-and-grab/

My attempt at desync definition

Desync is a server latency phenomenon failing to synchronize the simultaneous events/inputs of players.

The effects of which is that what you see on your screen is not what's happening on the server (where everything is being processed, CC/mobility/hitboxes etc).

Example : Player A sees Player B in front of him. He casts a kd skill which on his screen is hitting the Player B. However, Player B did two evasive dashes to the side and should have avoided the kd skill (on his screen he avoid it). Server rubberbands him to his original position and ultimately gets kded. This would be the defensive desync (on avoiding).

rubberband.thumb.png.05041c2a60fb8ecd1d6

(Credit to my artful friend Shulk) Youtube - KR example of such rubberband CC.

For other more visual examples look at those in the OP, they speak for themselves imo. I'd call them offensive desync in the sense that I'm missing people that should be kded and rooted in one place. In general it's me trying to hit ghosts if you will.

Edited by HTTPSforumsishard
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Posted

Have to concur with this unfortunately. 

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Posted

It's a problem with the engine. It is one of the major complaints Koreans have with the game (they call it a location bug).

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Posted

It's a problem with the engine. It is one of the major complaints Koreans have with the game (they call it a location bug).

So you mean this crap is here to stay? 

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Posted

So you mean this crap is here to stay? 

Well yeah till they find the cause, after all they are using a custom game engine, but perhaps they need a greater sense of urgency. I look at games like Dragon Nest that had a similar issue for years and was never fixed till this day (but it was definitely worse in that game).

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Posted

So you mean this crap is here to stay? 

Yes, they would have to build their engine from the ground up again to pretty much fix location mapping.

This kind of thing reminded me kind of like how DS2 had shit hitboxes even outside of PvP and in PvP even without lag, you could dodge an attack and still get nailed by it.

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Posted (edited)

It's a problem with the engine. It is one of the major complaints Koreans have with the game (they call it a location bug).

AFAIK PA uses an inhouse engine which should make fixing it easier (??) since they built it from the ground up. However I'd be surprised if they suddenly focus on actively fixing it after 2 years release and ignoring many reports of KR playerbase as you mentionned... Looks to me like they prioritized the looks over the deep mecanics.

Edited by HTTPSforumsishard

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Posted

Sad to see it wasn't just me, played in this beta to level 30 only and given that I tried to make the most of the CBT I visited the duel arenas.
'twas heartbreaking to see enemies warp out of my grabs and randomly getting behind me and whatnot q_q at first thought it was just me and maybe some lag of mine but nope.

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Posted

That is odd, from the little pvp i did it was not notice able for me(although the situation that causes it likely just did not happen to me) and the countless pvp videos i have also watched did not show to any big extent, maybe they have improved upon it a lot in korea?

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Posted

I have this issue on NA server

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Posted (edited)

AFAIK PA uses an inhouse engine which should make fixing it easier (??) since they built it from the ground up. However I'd be surprised if they suddenly focus on actively fixing it after 2 years release and ignoring many reports of KR playerbase as you mentionned... Looks to me like they prioritized the looks over the deep mecanics.

They might not be ignoring it, just that the issue could be a complicated one to fix, and they could be busy with other things for now while at some point it could get taken care of.

The game may have been out for 2 years but it has also been expanding and getting better within that same time period, if the game was released 2 years ago with minimal updates then i would say the likely hood of it being ignored would be pretty high then.

Edited by WildAce
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Posted

I noticed this kind of thing happening in the CBT2 on NA, but I usually don't experience this kind of stuff on the KR server nearly as much, game just seems less buggy/laggy on KR which is silly because I live in the Midwest USA.

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Posted

shit man aha

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Posted

i like your name

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Posted (edited)

They might not be ignoring it, just that the issue could be a complicated one to fix, and they could be busy with other things for now while at some point it could get taken care of.

The game may have been out for 2 years but it has also been expanding and getting better within that same time period, if the game was released 2 years ago with minimal updates then i would say the likely hood of it being ignored would be pretty high then.

Path of Exile had a similar problem, it took them more than 3 (?) years to "fix" it. The fix was to create a new version of the entire netcode and allow the playerbase to use either of them. Generally speaking desync is a effect of a predictive netcode and while the effect can be reduced by code optimization, it will never go away entirely. Predictive mode means that the client predicts what a target will do until he recieves new information from the server. If the server information is different than the prediction, desync happens.

Nearly all online games use predictive modes, and how good they work is a matter of optimization , and companies with alot of experience and time in online gaming like Blizzard or Valve have an advantage here. Predictive mode is used to cover up latency spikes between server and client. For example, your average ping to a game server is 20ms, that's what your speedtool shows you. But that is the average, and if you would run a test on the connection to the gameserver with something like MTR, you will see spikes and these spikes would result in lag. To cover both connection and serverlag, predictive mode is used.

The alternative is lockstep mode, which brings a number of other problems. In lockstep mode, desync does not happen, because the client is always waiting for server information, ie. client and server move in lockstep. If a lag happens, the client will freeze until it recieves server information and then the gameplay will fast forward through the delayed information, causing all sorts of problems. Lockstep is really only an alternative for people with good connections, that is connections where lagspikes (not the average ping) stay below 100 ms. It obviously excludes a large chunk of the playerbase.

Edited by ariantes
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Posted

hmmm do you think this issue affects melee more than say a wizard ?

The reason I ask is that I play from South Africa with an average 250ms latency. Would it be better to play a wizard or a valkyrie ? 

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Posted

I agree these conditions are painful and it spoils the action combat a lot for me. But it won't get fixed so we'll just have to suck it up :(  

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Posted (edited)

hmmm do you think this issue affects melee more than say a wizard ?

The reason I ask is that I play from South Africa with an average 250ms latency. Would it be better to play a wizard or a valkyrie ? 

I haven't experienced enough of BDO to say for sure, but usually any effect that displaces a target are more likely to cause desync then others, including but not limited to charge/dash, teleport/blink, dodge, knockback, collisions etc.

Edited by ariantes

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Posted

I noticed this kind of thing happening in the CBT2 on NA, but I usually don't experience this kind of stuff on the KR server nearly as much, game just seems less buggy/laggy on KR which is silly because I live in the Midwest USA.

So it sounds like they have improved this(but not fixed it entirely) on KR, which means it will get better at least with patches.

 

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Posted (edited)

Hey i'm Licorn, the low level witch from the pvp yesterday.

Yeah there were a lot of strange things happening. Skills without animation, rollback after moving etc...

BTW thanks for yesterday, it was my first pvp experience and a lot of fun.

Edited by Yuricorne

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Posted (edited)

Jesus, some of the things you guys say on these forums now a days make my brain hurt.

 

On to the OP....Yes, there has been desyncing issues in the past on KR version, however they did fix a lot of it. Not 100% but they definitely worked on it and have been working on it. It's probably the same issue that happened in KR with these new servers. Take your pitchforks and put them back up and stop flipping out for no reason. Despite all the bogus crap that is being spewed by players who want to start drama, Daum does actually care about their game and does work on all aspects of the game. Just like in KR I am sure they will figure out what is going on and try to have it fixed as quickly as possible....take a deep breath and relax.

Edited by Zemi

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Posted (edited)

hmmm do you think this issue affects melee more than say a wizard ?

The reason I ask is that I play from South Africa with an average 250ms latency. Would it be better to play a wizard or a valkyrie ? 

If desync remains an issue, I'd definitely go for wizard. Desync won't affect your support capacities and your aoes will have less chance to miss. Teleport doesn't desync as much, can't say for Magical Evasion. Ranger is another valid option.


BTW thanks for yesterday, it was my first pvp experience and a lot of fun.

Pleasure ( * ^ * )7

On to the OP....Yes, there has been desyncing issues in the past on KR version, however they did fix a lot of it. Not 100% but they definitely worked on it and have been working on it. It's probably the same issue that happened in KR with these new servers. Take your pitchforks and put them back up and stop flipping out for no reason. Despite all the bogus crap that is being spewed by players who want to start drama, Daum does actually care about their game and does work on all aspects of the game. Just like in KR I am sure they will figure out what is going on and try to have it fixed as quickly as possible....take a deep breath and relax.

I'll admit I didn't bother to do much research on the situation in Korea, glad to hear PA acknowledges it. Whilst I do want to see it fixed asap like you do I don't share all of your optimism. The situation today is a lot different than it was before, PA has 4 regions/versions to take care off, is making amazing awakenings and works on a yet again new province. All this to say they have a lot on their plate. I'll have to admit I'm scared this desync subsides at launch for a bit and some will definitely not have the patience to deal with it. A fresh uninformed player would have a bad first impression of the game and would just quit. First impression is key at every release. Me being a pure pvp player at heart, I'm sad to say I'll be avoiding it at release in this state.

 

Edited by HTTPSforumsishard

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Posted

Possible solution: Test servers for your best connection

I played the entire beta test on orwen ellion with rubberbanding and desync in pve (imagine pvp would be worse). Last night I tried every orwen channel, all giving me between 110-200 ping. They all had differing lvls of rubberbanding for me, one of them was very very bad.

Then I made a char on edan ellian. 50-70 ping consistant. Zero rubberbanding 100% buttery smooth and reactive. Great in the starting zone even! Hopefully it had smooth pvp aswell.

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Posted

Desync is still very much present on release. Desync + CC 5s immunity kills PvP at this point. And the good news keep on coming, you just decided to nerf Tamer mobility forward dash. Do you have like a dart board with random shit patches you'd like to integrate ?

Get it together please.

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