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Revert experience to Korean levels.

140 posts in this topic

Posted

No make the combat lvls 1-50 more rewarding and challenging instead.

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Posted (edited)

I'm completely opposed to this. I want to experience the game and the environment it created, and see other players in the world. If you want to smash to end game and gear up, most other MMORGP's will be happy to oblige you.

When everyone is at endgame, there is very little reason to move out from a few set locations.  Look at warcraft now, everyone is at max level doing dailies - using about 5% of the world thats available to them. It's essentially single player if your not at max level.

This game reminds me of Shadow of the Colossus, Zelda Ocarina of Time and The Burning Crusade time in Warcraft.  It takes time, and is better for it.

This is your first post so I can assume you are baby-faced coming into this game.

Black Desert Online is a sandbox MMO - not a themepark MMO.

People coming into this game wanting PvE to be the reason to explore, and force players to grit their teeth over a tedious and painful grind are looking at the game from the perspective of a themepark MMO.

The beauty of a sandbox is that it is what you make of it! The early areas always have incentives to revisit them and explore around them (fishing, processing, cooking, nodes, etc.) and can be the focus of a node war in the late-game. Whilst you won't be sitting there smacking a grass beetle for 3 days forcing you to stick around in Olvia, you will revisit Olvia on future characters or for crafting, harvesting - etc. The mobs which you farm for exp were around for long enough in Korea that you explored the area and then moved on before it became tedious.

Plus, questing will force you to revisit every corner of the map! You will meet NPCs all over who will give quests with rewards that are desireable at any point in the game (contrib exp, inventory expansions, etc.).

And once again, reaching level 50 is not even close to end-game, it is merely any other MMOs equivalent of a tutorial.

Edited by Clayton
"tedious and boring"
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Posted (edited)

Clayton, pls

You're not supposed to level up fast after reaching the softcap.

Edited by Narcosis

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Posted

grinding for days just to reach the entry-point, one can easily see how the game would lose a vast amount of its playerbase.

Listen to yourself... it's an MMO, if you can't stand levelling to that entry point even over a few days, in a game which will last you several thousand hours and be played for a couple of years, then it's rather a problem of attitude in the "rushing" player base expecting to hit "max" level (well aware you just keep going after hitting soft cap) at the click of a button and two Hail Mary's...

Keeping it as it is, you allow people who don't mind the "tutorial" going 1-50 taking a bit longer, and the rushers will still get there in a few days - you said it yourself - and can keep going from there.

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Posted (edited)

Clayton, pls

You're not supposed to level up fast after reaching the softcap.

I am well aware of this. Post-level 50 should be slower, but still within a reasonable enough time that a casual player will have a chance in PvP with a more hardcore player (not counting the most hardcore players who will be on another level with gear and the like).

Edit: The Korean leveling post-50 was perfect.

Listen to yourself... it's an MMO, if you can't stand levelling to that entry point even over a few days, in a game which will last you several thousand hours and be played for a couple of years, then it's rather a problem of attitude in the "rushing" player base expecting to hit "max" level (well aware you just keep going after hitting soft cap) at the click of a button and two Hail Mary's...

Keeping it as it is, you allow people who don't mind the "tutorial" going 1-50 taking a bit longer, and the rushers will still get there in a few days - you said it yourself - and can keep going from there.

Thing is, I wouldn't mind just doing this once. But you don't level to 50 once, and it looks as though post-50 is even slower than it was in KR (correct me if you have accurate information as to me being wrong).

The casual playerbase will not appreciate a slow leveling system, as it will mean that they will almost never have a chance against the hardcore playerbase. I'm almost certain that you would be either a member of the hardcore playerbase and would appreciate an insurmountable lead over the casuals, or you are one of the players who did not experience leveling past 28 during either of the closed beta tests - and have yet to experience how dull it really is. 

Edited by Clayton
Korea

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Posted (edited)

I am well aware of this. Post-level 50 should be slower, but still within a reasonable enough time that a casual player will have a chance in PvP with a more hardcore player (not counting the most hardcore players who will be on another level with gear and the like).

Edit: The Korean leveling post-50 was perfect.

Casual player cannot and WILL NOT ever stand on the same ground as hardcore players. Period. There is simply no chance for that to happen because of many differences; most casual players do not really aim to be competitive either, they want to have fun and black Desert delivers it. It's not simply about leveling and reaching something beyond the softcap. A vast ammount of content in this game does not really have any level requirements and game needs it to maintain some sort of an economic/enviromental balance. The only reason for you to keep on leveling up hard beyond 50 is to become competitive in hardcore pvp and guild wars/politics; you don't need it for anything else.

I felt the korean leveling experience was wayyy too fast and didn't really let you enjoy the world around you, nor the questing (again, DAUM's fault for trying to push their lousy mobile business model on an open world, sandbox mmorpg). Fast leveling rates and gaming experience (aka "make money, reach meta endgame and fully gear up in two weeks" etc) are usually an indicator of poor business models within mmorpg's, tied with the fact publishers are obvious the game won't be able to hold people for extended periods of time; as such, it boils down to constant short updates (aka "new instances to grind for nothing") and ludicrous cash shop politics, to make up for high playerbase rotation.

Edited by Narcosis
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Posted (edited)

Clayton, pls

You're not supposed to level up fast after reaching the softcap.

the soft cap is 55 though, and it is going to be slow trying to get to 56 with so little XP. 

I am okay with making the leveling faster, The game actually feels clunky at certain level area's where you just need to grind out a level or two on set mob types because the game doesn't feel geared toward the slower rate of progression. Adjusting the leveling rate just stops you from spending an hour to two every 5 levels to make up for the fact quest progression doesn't match level progression.

It is just my opinion, but since the game is just a sandbox and not a theme park progression there is little reason to gate leveling up.

Edited by Naoto
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Posted (edited)

1 - 50 is  ~ 8 hours 

50 -52 is  ~ 10 hours

52 - 55 is  ~ 15 - 25 hours 

55 - 56 is  ~ 15 - 30 hours 

56 - 57 is  ~ 25 - 50 hours 

57 - 58 is  ~ 75 - 100 hours 

58 - 59 is  ~ 150 - 200 hours   

59 - 60 is  ~ 300 hours

... and that's with KR xp rates. It takes 28 - 38 hours of pure grinding for 1 - 50 on NA.  (Circe)

I've quoted that post a few times. The slow exp doesn't stop at 50. The leveling IS SLOW, it progressively gets slower. 1-50 is intended to be fast, as it is merely the tutorial.

https://www.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/3pu40j/current_aspects_of_leveling_on_the_kr_server_and/

From KR playing the game at the start as the developers intended, on a fresh account with no gear following the black spirit around the world form Velia to Calpheon will take you around 16 ~ 24 hours depending on your pace and how much time you spend completing the auxiliary quests from the various nodes the black spirit takes you too.

If you do not feel like following the black spirit quest chains and do no quests at all you will be able to level up a character from 1 - 50 in about 8 hours of pure grinding, without power leveling. However there is a caveat to this, if you simply grind you do not get Contribution or Energy. Also you will eventually have to do the black spirit quest line in order to be allowed to advance to 50.

It takes 28 - 38 hours of pure grinding for 1 - 50 on NA.  (Circe). This is false, on EU Alustin server, some players were lvl 50 the first day at 00h00 so in 15-16 hours of grind.

Edited by Grimbergen

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Posted (edited)

This is your first post so I can assume you are baby-faced coming into this game.

Black Desert Online is a sandbox MMO - not a themepark MMO.

People coming into this game wanting PvE to be the reason to explore, and force players to grit their teeth over a tedious and painful grind are looking at the game from the perspective of a themepark MMO.

The beauty of a sandbox is that it is what you make of it! The early areas always have incentives to revisit them and explore around them (fishing, processing, cooking, nodes, etc.) and can be the focus of a node war in the late-game. Whilst you won't be sitting there smacking a grass beetle for 3 days forcing you to stick around in Olvia, you will revisit Olvia on future 文字 or for crafting, harvesting - etc. The mobs which you farm for exp were around for long enough in Korea that you explored the area and then moved on before it became tedious.

Plus, questing will force you to revisit every corner of the map! You will meet NPCs all over who will give quests with rewards that are desireable at any point in the game (contrib exp, inventory expansions, etc.).

And once again, reaching level 50 is not even close to end-game, it is merely any other MMOs equivalent of a tutorial.

Yeah, this is my first experience of this game. I've only played the second Beta wave, so I'm totally new to it. 

Sandbox is the entire reason I'm here, I'm not a fan of the eternal grind either. To be honest I doesn't sound like we disagree on too much, though I stick by slow leveling being necessary to keep players moving around and more enjoyable for how I like to play.

I'm glad 50 isn't end-game, though even with alts I'm happy to take my time getting there. 

Edited by stevedave
I stick by *with* slow leveling

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Posted (edited)

the soft cap is 55 though, and it is going to be slow trying to get to 56 with so little XP. 

I am okay with making the leveling faster, The game actually feels clunky at certain level area's where you just need to grind out a level or two on set mob types because the game doesn't feel geared toward the slower rate of progression. The leveling rate just stops you from spending an hour to two every 5 levels to make up for the fact quest progression doesn't match level progression.

It is just my opinion, but since the game is just a sandbox and not a theme park progression there is little reason to gate leveling up.

That's the current KR softcap. For us atm it will be 50 with little to no reasons to go past that, as the leveling curve goes beyond the roof afterwards and it's made like that on purpose (*cough* upcoming updates *cough*). The overall leveling rate isn't just a simple line that steadily goes up as you progress; some zones have halved experience, while others make up for it afterwards; often because of questing hubs and quest requirements (more or less questing in a designated area, black spirit quests, storyline quests, being forced to run back and forth around a couple of times etc).

Edited by Narcosis

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Posted

I know where you get thoses numbers and they are right but they are not for a fresh account but from an alt. 

1 - 50 =  ~ 8 hours is with an alt full stuff +10/+15 from a main lvl 55.

1-50 is ~ 16 hours with a fresh account.

https://www.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/3pu40j/current_aspects_of_leveling_on_the_kr_server_and/

It takes 28 - 38 hours of pure grinding for 1 - 50 on NA.  (Circe). This is false, on EU Alustin server, some players were lvl 50 the first day at 00h00 so in 15-16 hours of grinds.

Wasn't that done by a group of players who grinded non stop in a party? I thought they said it wasn't done soloing

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Posted (edited)

Wasn't that done by a group of players who grinded non stop in a party? I thought they said it wasn't done soloing

i edited my message, it was a litle bit wrong.

Yes, indeed they were in group. Doing it alone takes 24 hours depending your class.

Edited by Grimbergen

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Posted (edited)

That's the current KR softcap. For us atm it will be 50 with little to no reasons to go past that, as the leveling curve goes beyond the roof afterwards and it's made like that on purpose (*cough* upcoming updates *cough*). The overall leveling rate isn't just a simple line that steadily goes up as you progress; some zones have halved experience, while others make up for it afterwards; often because of questing hubs and quest requirements (more or less questing in a designated area, black spirit quests, storyline quests, being forced to run back and forth around a couple of times etc).

The CBT softcap was 55. after 55 you still get xp to 56 but its so little you won't make the level before they add the next area. that is why they call it a soft cap, you still get XP but even no life grinding you wouldn't make 56 before new content.

Edited by Naoto

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Posted (edited)

The CBT softcap was 55. after 55 you still get xp to 56 but its so little you won't make the level before they add the next area. thats why theyc all it a soft cap, you still get XP but even no life grinding you wouldn't make 56 before new content.

Are you sure the cbt2 softcap was 55 and not 50 ?, 55 was the max lvl on cbt2. I don't think cbt2 softcap was 55 cuz no one was 55, higher lvl was 51.

Edited by Grimbergen

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Posted

Casual player cannot and WILL NOT ever stand on the same ground as hardcore players. Period. There is simply no chance for that to happen because of many differences; most casual players do not really aim to be competitive either, they want to have fun and black Desert will delivers it. It's not simply about leveling and reaching something beyond the softcap. A vast ammount of content in this game does not really have any level requirements and game needs it to maintain some sort of an economic/enviromental balance. The only reason for you to keep on leveling up hard beyond 50 is to become competitive in hardcore pvp and guild wars/politics; you don't need it for anything else.

I felt the korean leveling experience was wayyy too fast and didn't really let you enjoy the world around you, nor the questing (again, DAUM's fault for trying to push their lousy mobile business model on an open world, sandbox mmorpg). Fast leveling rates and gaming experience (aka "make money, reach meta endgame and fully gear up in two weeks" etc) are usually an indicator of poor business models within mmorpg's, tied with the fact publishers are obvious the game won't be able to hold people for extended periods of time; as such, it boils down to constant short updates (aka "new instances to grind for nothing") and ludicrous cash shop politics, to make up for high playerbase rotation.

"fully gear up in two weeks"

 

gjn81wvxqsq6yzcwubok.thumb.png.8b32d9aae

(Maybe for a few thousand real dollars - something which won't happen in NA).

I am aware that a casual player will have a hard time against a hardcore player, but I think it should almost always be indicative of the skill difference between the players - not merely the result of levels and gear. Obviously the hardcore players will have better gear and slightly higher levels, but in KR it is still at the point where the balance is close enough that a very skilled more casual player does have a chance against a hardcore player of average skill levels.

Obviously the absolute best players will always be the skilled hardcore players, and reverting to KR exp will not change this in any way. But, by slowing the leveling down - Daum will likely remove what was a fairly balanced system, and give even the most skilled casual players no chance in PvP.

It is also important to remember that arguably the best content in this game would be acquired through guilds - enabling more casual players to enjoy end-game content and PvP. Therefore PvE needn't become an entertaining thing in itself, if you think it is the only way of keeping the casuals.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Are you sure the cbt2 softcap was 55 and not 50 ?, 55 was the max lvl.

BDO has no max levels they always release to a softcap which was 55 in CBT2. What they do is allow your character to still gain XP but the content you are doing provides so little XP the next level though not locked is basically impossible to get to.

Edited by Naoto

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Posted (edited)

BDO has no max levels they always release to a softcap which was 55 in CBT2. What they do is allow your character to still gain XP but the content you are doing provides so little XP the next level though not locked is basically impossible to get to.

i said cbt2 ....

Level Cap

  • The level cap has been increased from 50 to 55.

  • You will still be able to gain additional skill points once you have reached the level cap.

At the release the softcap will be 50, no lvl max ofc.

softcap is not lvl max

Edited by Grimbergen

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Posted (edited)

i said cbt2 ....

I edited it to refer to CBT2. Basically a softcap is basically saying max level, though still playing allows you to gain some xp toward the next level the xp is so high you won't make the next level.

Soft Cap is when you gain XP toward next level but realistically will never get the level.

You still get XP at 55, It is a cap, but we call it a soft cap.

@_@ my post is so bad, I just explained soft cap three different times... meh oh well I will keep it so people can see how bad I am at explaining.

Edited by Naoto

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Posted

wtf i hit 50 in 16, whered you get the 20+ hours from?
did you level by picking up potatoes?

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Posted

wtf i hit 50 in 16, whered you get the 20+ hours from?
did you level by picking up potatoes?

Good for you man! Gold star.

Maybe if I had a cranium as enormous as yours I could figure out how to level to 50 in 16 hours, as it is clearly something which the average player could do.

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Posted

Grinding is never fun, my guild mates and I hit a bunch of roadblocks where all the quests in the area were done and there was nothing to do but kill the same monsters over and over.  No point to it, and has nothing to do with the story why my character feels the need to just kill XXX mobs all day.

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Posted

Good for you man! Gold star.

Maybe if I had a cranium as enormous as yours I could figure out how to level to 50 in 16 hours, as it is clearly something which the average player could do.

Thank buddy!, its very easy, use some common sense, play alone or with competent people and anyone can do it, not like its rocket science, but then again the average player would rather be a forum warrior then actually play and learn the game

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Posted

1 - 50 is  ~ 8 hours 

50 -52 is  ~ 10 hours

52 - 55 is  ~ 15 - 25 hours 

55 - 56 is  ~ 15 - 30 hours 

56 - 57 is  ~ 25 - 50 hours 

57 - 58 is  ~ 75 - 100 hours 

58 - 59 is  ~ 150 - 200 hours   

59 - 60 is  ~ 300 hours

... and that's with KR xp rates. It takes 28 - 38 hours of pure grinding for 1 - 50 on NA.  (Circe)

I've quoted that post a few times. The slow exp doesn't stop at 50. The leveling IS SLOW, it progressively gets slower. 1-50 is intended to be fast, as it is merely the tutorial.

It doesn't take 28 - 38 hours of grinding to level to 50. There has been several videos as well as screenshots with this last beta of people reaching lvl 50 in 15 hours. So it might take you that long but it doesn't take everyone 30+ hours to reach lvl 50

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Posted

It doesn't take 28 - 38 hours of grinding to level to 50. There has been several videos as well as screenshots with this last beta of people reaching lvl 50 in 15 hours. So it might take you that long but it doesn't take everyone 30+ hours to reach lvl 50

Thank buddy!, its very easy, use some common sense, play alone or with competent people and anyone can do it, not like its rocket science, but then again the average player would rather be a forum warrior then actually play and learn the game

I'm sure a full party of wizards with flawless coordination could level to 50 in 8-10 hours no trouble. Doesn't change the fact that the average solo or duo party will have their leveling experience artificially drawn out.

It doesn't take 28 - 38 hours of grinding to level to 50. There has been several videos as well as screenshots with this last beta of people reaching lvl 50 in 15 hours. So it might take you that long but it doesn't take everyone 30+ hours to reach lvl 50

Thank buddy!, its very easy, use some common sense, play alone or with competent people and anyone can do it, not like its rocket science, but then again the average player would rather be a forum warrior then actually play and learn the game

I'm sure a full party of wizards with flawless coordination could level to 50 in 8-10 hours no trouble. Doesn't change the fact that the average solo or duo party will have their leveling experience artificially drawn out.

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Posted (edited)

1 - 50 is  ~ 8 hours 

50 -52 is  ~ 10 hours

52 - 55 is  ~ 15 - 25 hours 

55 - 56 is  ~ 15 - 30 hours 

56 - 57 is  ~ 25 - 50 hours 

57 - 58 is  ~ 75 - 100 hours 

58 - 59 is  ~ 150 - 200 hours   

59 - 60 is  ~ 300 hours

... and that's with KR xp rates. It takes 28 - 38 hours of pure grinding for 1 - 50 on NA.  (Circe)

I've quoted that post a few times. The slow exp doesn't stop at 50. The leveling IS SLOW, it progressively gets slower. 1-50 is intended to be fast, as it is merely the tutorial.

A few of us in Risen made it to 50 in 17.5 hours. I don't know what you're doing, or how, but it's wrong. 

Edited by Tyrael
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