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Carebear Attack

96 posts in this topic

Posted

So, you're a lonely PVE player and people keep PKing you. These forums are full of trolls encouraging PKing and griefing. So I propose we fight back using the negative karma system that they love so much. How you ask? Good question!

1. Roll your main and do your normal thing.
2. In between waiting for power to refill go create an alt.
3. Powerlevel that alt to 50.
4. Now put really crappy gear on that alt.
5. Find a group of PVPers and run up to them really fast! They thing you're attacking and will attack you. Even if they don't attack you just stand on the mobs they are killing and let them aoe you. Boom, you're dead and they take a negative karma hit.
6. Rinse and Repeat. 

You just did two things. One, you gave their entire guild negative karma. Guild leaders actually kick people out for that. Two, you gave those PVPers negative karma.

We can grief people too...

Good plan! With crappy gear you won't lose crystals or anything!

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Posted

Good plan! With crappy gear you won't lose crystals or anything!

except...you have to flag to attack someone. If they aren't flagged they are going to let you land the first hit.. that way they can defend themselves and not lose karma. If they are flagged they will slaughter you and they won't lose any karma. 

It is a poorly thought out plan by a PvEhole who doesn't even understand the PvP system well enough to be upset about it. 

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No seriously if the servers loose 30% of the "carebears" Daum with destroy OWPvP.

I tried to explain to some special snowflakes who keep screaming this is a PvP game and all "carebears" should go somewhere else,  how this is not exclusively PvP nor "their" game and Daum will cater too all their customers no matter the playstyle. It just falls to deaf ears and make me grumpy over losing my time on stupid people.

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Posted (edited)

except...you have to flag to attack someone. If they aren't flagged they are going to let you land the first hit.. that way they can defend themselves and not lose karma. If they are flagged they will slaughter you and they won't lose any karma. 
It is a poorly thought out plan by a PvEhole who doesn't even understand the PvP system well enough to be upset about it. 

Wait, I may have misunderstood what you meant, but didn't he mean that you do not attack them first? Just to kind of rush them and make them think you were attacking them. So far as I could tell, only the flagged person loses Karma. If that is incorrect, please let me know!

Don't get me wrong, I do not hate against PvP, heck I welcome it even though I'm more of a PVE player myself, it adds some spice.

Edited by Klaess

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Posted

Wait, I may have misunderstood what you meant, but didn't he mean that you do not attack them first? Just to kind of rush them and make them think you were attacking them. So far as I could tell, only the flagged person loses Karma. If that is incorrect, please let me know!

If you aren't flagged you can't attack them. 

So why would they take a Karma hit because someone is rushing at you. 

If you are in the street and you have a gun and some crazy mf comes running at you with a huge knife you are going to defend your self and shoot them. But if a little kid comes running at you with a piece of cardboard in their hands with the word knife on it, you'd be pretty stupid to shoot them. The police would likely buy you a doughnut for killing the crazy guy with a knife, they would arrest you and likely beat you a little for killing the kid.  

When you are not flagged you are the little kid with the word Knife on it, but the moment you are flagged you become the crazy guy with a knife... 


So there are three outcomes. 

You are unflagged and the Group is there to kill as many people as they can find.. so you running up to them just gives them what they want and you have done nothing to hinder them, and wasted your time, because the Karma isn't an issue to them. 

You are unflagged and the Group doesn't want to loose Karma so they see you and ignore you. You have done nothing to hinder them and wasted your time. 

You are flagged and the group doesn't want to loose Karma or they do either way free PvP kill they kill you. You have done nothing to hinder them and wasted your time. 

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Posted

If you aren't flagged you can't attack them. 
So why would they take a Karma hit because someone is rushing at you. 

If you are in the street and you have a gun and some crazy mf comes running at you with a huge knife you are going to defend your self and shoot them. But if a little kid comes running at you with a piece of cardboard in their hands with the word knife on it, you'd be pretty stupid to shoot them. The police would likely buy you a doughnut for killing the crazy guy with a knife, they would arrest you and likely beat you a little for killing the kid.  

When you are not flagged you are the little kid with the word Knife on it, but the moment you are flagged you become the crazy guy with a knife... 


So there are three outcomes. 

You are unflagged and the Group is there to kill as many people as they can find.. so you running up to them just gives them what they want and you have done nothing to hinder them, and wasted your time, because the Karma isn't an issue to them. 

You are unflagged and the Group doesn't want to loose Karma so they see you and ignore you. You have done nothing to hinder them and wasted your time. 

You are flagged and the group doesn't want to loose Karma or they do either way free PvP kill they kill you. You have done nothing to hinder them and wasted your time. 

That's actually a valid point. I rest my case. Congratulations on winning a dispute on the Internet!

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Posted

No they don't.
See PvE focused play is a valid play style. PvE players have to be respectful but it is much harder to be disrespectful. The worse thing a PvE player can do is Kill Steal. And by kill steal I don't mean farm in the same area as you, I mean actively follow you around and try to take your kills to force you out of an area... if that is the case, flag and kill them. That is a valid reason to PK. 

PKers actively hinder PvE players.. that is what they do.. because they don't want to attack over PvPers who are going to be fully skilled and know how to use their skills effectively on a PvP player opposed to a PvE sustained grind. In PvP you want to do as much damage as quickly as possible while preventing opponent from doing any damage. It is a totally different way of fighting even a PvE summon boss isn't the same. Good PvE players want to be able to handle as many mobs as possible and sustain the DPS for as little down time as possible. It is a very different play style. Often PvE players have to actively switch mind sets even when they do know how. As such the PK centric player who is already thinking in the PvP mindset has an advantage. It makes a PvEer easier to kill.. a PKer is the same loser that only kills things he is over leveled for. They don't want a challange they don't want a good fight.. they want to piss of a PvEer they get off on it. Some (a much smaller group) of PvEer do the same thing on PvE servers with kill stealing and other passive aggressive grief methods. Like what Stabby totally failed to suggest here. 

In those cases they are still grievers. but instead of PK Grievers they are PvEholes. 

Just like not the entire PvP community are grievers the whole PvE community aren't grievers. 

So again if you really want to ruin the day of a PvEer... go murder PvEholes.. Heck I might help you, but only if you help me hunt down PK Grievers. 

If the well adjusted members of both communities dealt with our idiot population it would shrink fairly fast. 

How is that harder? That's what so many people do in every game that doesn't allow combat in some way (factions etc)

And I'm sorry man, but PvErs are simply inferior to PvPers when it comes to combat control of given class. That is something I've witnessed over and over again and it's something I stand behind. I'm not saying that's what everyone has to be good at etc., hell no, play however you want, just have fun, I don't care. But what you are saying simply sounds like bunch of excuses

Lastly, I have no idea why some people keep blowin' the PK thing out of proportions. There's not gonna be 10 people waiting for you to leave the town so they can kill you lol. Just like there won't be a milion PvErs griefin others there won't be a milion PvPers griefin' others.

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Posted (edited)

How is that harder? That's what so many people do in every game that doesn't allow combat in some way (factions etc)

And I'm sorry man, but PvErs are simply inferior to PvPers when it comes to combat control of given class. That is something I've witnessed over and over again and it's something I stand behind. I'm not saying that's what everyone has to be good at etc., hell no, play however you want, just have fun, I don't care. But what you are saying simply sounds like bunch of excuses

Lastly, I have no idea why some people keep blowin' the PK thing out of proportions. There's not gonna be 10 people waiting for you to leave the town so they can kill you lol. Just like there won't be a milion PvErs griefin others there won't be a milion PvPers griefin' others.

As for you first question... a PvE player can't really hinder a PvP player in this game.. because in this game you can kill the PvEhole who try to passively aggressively grieve. If a More Casual PvE player is level 52 is only one for an hour each weeknight, and gets killed just one time each night.. they will lose 1% xp all the XP they gain.. meaning they can't advance at all. They likely have lost a gem and basically can't get anything done. It is much easier for a PK griever to have a game breaking effect on a PvE player than a PvE player can break the play of a PvPer. 

I don't know that yet.. based on these forums the Grievers are trying to suggest that they will be.. and it has players scared. you have to remember this game is really interesting to people who are interested in the crafting system and all the achiever systems in the game. The PvPing is just one element not the only element. Many of the Achievers are used to things like WoW where PvE and PvP servers are the norm. This gives them protections.  I start in EvE which didn't have that protection and I like PvP (but you are right I focus on PvE and as such my PvP skills are not as good as straight PvPers. I can still generally be competent in objective based PvP but in 1 on 1 I am generally useless (not always but generally) This is something I except. Even in EvE I was.. 


Most of these players though only know PvP from the stand point of a person on a PvE server when you have a group of people talking about how they will kill any one anywhere it has them worried.. hell it has me worried and I don't mind it too much but grievers are annoying. I've also played on PvP servers in WoW where the day I started I spawned to 5 level 60 horde players killing lowbies and NPCs.

I instantly went back to the PvE servers Even there horde players would slaughter NPC. SWTOR was the same way PvE servers had Imperial and Republic players going into a town and killing all the NPCs. 

Every PvE player has experienced this.. and when the level of Toxicity that exists on these forums from the PK trolls it really does sound like there will be level 52s in decent gear hanging out looking for lowbies to kill day in and day out. Which makes a lot of PvE centric players that don't want to pass up the amazing mechanics of this game worried. So much so they are talking about not leveling alts. 

I really don't plan on leveling several alts into the PvP range. Purely so make Trade and gathering safer. My Main and my primary Alt will for sure level past the cap but I will likely have two sets of gear. One for grinding and one for doing other things to minimize gem damage. 

I am hoping it will be fairly civilized most of the time and the PvPers will actually be busy doing other things... I really don't think they are a majority. 

However if you have 25,000 PK grievers (5% of all players based on the pre-order high) each log in 4 times a week and kill 10 people grinding just for fun each time that is 1 million griever PKs a week. in a game with 500,000 players. If they are only going after easy targets. the PvE players will have a high kill count. That means each PvE player could end up getting PKed (if just an average) 2-5 times a week. Some could log in and get PKed 5 times in an hour... that is enough early in the game to make them say screw this, this isn't fun. 

it doesn't take many to really ruin the fun. 

I'm hoping it will be ok.. I want it to be ok.. but I'm not will to assume it is going to be ok based on the vitriol on these forums. 

Edited by Kaziklu
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Posted

PvPers try to sound really heroic and noble but in the end open world PK tends to devolve into someone running in stealth and backstabbing another who is already engaged and low in HP fighting mobs. Or five high levels, max geared, running around killing lowbies. Anyone who has done minimal PvP knows that the initiative is 50% of winning a fight. Picking the right moment to engage against someone doing something else is pretty much a won fight.

 

More importantly it does not need a large group to ----- up a large area simply by using terror tactics, stealth mechanics, and in this case even the ghille suit. The flagging is simple and elegant. The ones who love the open world PvP show as ready and interested in it and when two such meet they can smack each other. Perfect. Not even a need for separate servers.

 

Btw, I asked in another thread but none answered me. If PvErs are carebears are PvP ultraeliteharcoreblackdeathgods? We need a pet name for our exuberant cousins.

 

 

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Posted

Btw, I asked in another thread but none answered me. If PvErs are carebears are PvP ultraeliteharcoreblackdeathgods? We need a pet name for our exuberant cousins.

I call them peeveepeeners. Or schizophrenics when they are really obnoxious, but I try to be nice and not use that much. 

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Posted

............

But that's the thing, people talk on forums, don't act in the game. So don't worry about it too much.

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Posted

So lets end this falacy now. They support open world PKing against people who are willing to participate. The Proposed Karma system shows they want PKers to not grieve players and they want PvE centric players to not feel scared all the time. They want the game to work. The ability Grind camping, and world boss stealing is great. The ability for Purple and Red players to attack each other any time is great, the ability of OWPvP GvG is great. But for Grieving PKers to go out and hunt PvEers in lesser gear. well that is lame and the Devs will have to respond if a major number of players flee the game. 
Actually.. that is what happened in KR. The Karma system was much less damn that even the proposed system.. a bunch of PK grievers decided to be jerks slaughter large groups constantly, made it difficult for people to play they left, devs realized there was no money in losing 30% of you population because of 3% being asses so.. boom punishing Karma system. and PvP level caps. (as I understand it) 

So yes if enough PvEers (thousands wouldn't take much) left the devs would be forced to protect their revenue stream. 


Before Launch.. the Grievers are already driving off hundreds of players. with thousands more planning on ways to prevent PKers from ruining their play experience, and if they can't enjoy it they will quit. I know people that wanted to upgrade... but didn't because why pay $50 more when in two weeks the Grievers may have made the game totally enjoyable. It is already costing Daum money. 


 

I assume you read these numbers / statistics somewhere and you are not just talking out of your ass . Care to share a link proving that this was the reason the KR servers went down ?

PvPers try to sound really heroic and noble but in the end open world PK tends to devolve into someone running in stealth and backstabbing another who is already engaged and low in HP fighting mobs. Or five high levels, max geared, running around killing lowbies. Anyone who has done minimal PvP knows that the initiative is 50% of winning a fight. Picking the right moment to engage against someone doing something else is pretty much a won fight.

 

More importantly it does not need a large group to ----- up a large area simply by using terror tactics, stealth mechanics, and in this case even the ghille suit. The flagging is simple and elegant. The ones who love the open world PvP show as ready and interested in it and when two such meet they can smack each other. Perfect. Not even a need for separate servers.

 

Btw, I asked in another thread but none answered me. If PvErs are carebears are PvP ultraeliteharcoreblackdeathgods? We need a pet name for our exuberant cousins.

 

 

Stop trying to label PvPers mate, show me where we keep pointing out we like to be heroic and noble. Rogues, thieves, killers are shadowy tyrants that only care about whats on the end of our daggers. We will do anything for a PK

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Posted

I assume you read these numbers / statistics somewhere and you are not just talking out of your ass . Care to share a link proving that this was the reason the KR servers went down ?

 

I've read it a few places in my research at in the late days of the beta or early days live there was a group of PK grievers that were doing nothing but attacking other players. This has been alternately talked about as the PvP level cap being moved to 50, other times as the Cap moved to 50 and the Karma penalties significantly increased. SOme say there was an exodus of thousands of players others (usually PvPers complaining about the system) complain "it was a few". Likely it was some where in the middle. I wasn't there and don't maintain links.. and it isn't important enough to spend hours going through my history to find it. There was a change it was due to grievers. 

The 30% is not a number that I think will leave but a thresh hold that will certainly cause reaction. The number was from a PvP poll where only about 30% of PvPers feel PKing/grieving is the best part of PvP. Which I personally think is about 10x inflated because it is the forums and it is the PvP forum. However if 3% of the player base decides to engage in malicious "carebear hunting" to "cleanse" the servers that number is likely not far off. But it is a number I used as an example not as a stat. If it came off that way I do apologize, it isn't intended to be taken that way. However reading it back I can see why you did. 




 

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Posted (edited)

So, you're a lonely PVE player and people keep PKing you. These forums are full of trolls encouraging PKing and griefing. So I propose we fight back using the negative karma system that they love so much. How you ask? Good question!

1. Roll your main and do your normal thing.
2. In between waiting for power to refill go create an alt.
3. Powerlevel that alt to 50.
4. Now put really crappy gear on that alt.
5. Find a group of PVPers and run up to them really fast! They thing you're attacking and will attack you. Even if they don't attack you just stand on the mobs they are killing and let them aoe you. Boom, you're dead and they take a negative karma hit.
6. Rinse and Repeat. 

You just did two things. One, you gave their entire guild negative karma. Guild leaders actually kick people out for that. Two, you gave those PVPers negative karma.

We can grief people too...

well it seems you are also a grief so what's the problem ?

anyway nice idea, you can do it so why not ! it's a sandbox game, do the game as you want.

Edited by Grimbergen

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Posted

except...you have to flag to attack someone. If they aren't flagged they are going to let you land the first hit.. that way they can defend themselves and not lose karma. If they are flagged they will slaughter you and they won't lose any karma. 
It is a poorly thought out plan by a PvEhole who doesn't even understand the PvP system well enough to be upset about it. 

That's actually a valid point. I rest my case. Congratulations on winning a dispute on the Internet!

Actualy it´s not that difficult,

When you see a known PKer grinding mobs to get rid of his karma, just put yourself UNFLAGGED in the path of his attacks ;)

Get yourself killed (Shouldn´t be that hard if you´re running around without gear)

Shitload of karma gained

rinse and repeat

Problem solved

This is of course totally bullshit for people who WANT to run around red...

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Posted (edited)

And that makes you as bad as them. Just a PvEhole griever

Edited by Kaziklu

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Posted

It was sarcasm but, ya, I would rather lick my toilet bowl clean than PVP. 

Maybe you should play a pve game then. BDO is all about combining every aspect of MMOs.

This is of course totally bullshit for people who WANT to run around red...

Aren't those the ones you guys are most salty about? Why punish the average pvper who is trying not to be outlaw. I don't understand what you hope to gain by suiciding into people who aren't even trying to kill anyone.

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Maybe you should play a pve game then. BDO is all about combining every aspect of MMOs.

That's why I came to BDO, because it's a PVE game. This game has a little PVP content and all of a sudden it's a "PVP game" to you guys. We ALL want PVP content in this game, me included! But at the same time most of us want to do all of it's PVE content without risk of being griefed. Archeage and game like it left a lasting impression. 

Oh, and I have end game characters in just about every MMO of this genre. Gaming is what I do for a living. Really. I would have bought and reviewed this game regardless. But thanks for your advice. Way to build a community!

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That's why I came to BDO, because it's a PVE game. This game has a little PVP content and all of a sudden it's a "PVP game" to you guys. We ALL want PVP content in this game, me included! But at the same time most of us want to do all of it's PVE content without risk of being griefed. Archeage and game like it left a lasting impression. 
Oh, and I have end game characters in just about every MMO of this genre. Gaming is what I do for a living. Really. I would have bought and reviewed this game regardless. But thanks for your advice. Way to build a community!

You keep repeating "it's a pve game" as if that will make it suddenly true. It is a pvevp game, with pvp as endgame content. You will never play an open world sandbox without getting ganked here and there, it really isn't the huge deal that you make it out to be.

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You keep repeating "it's a pve game" as if that will make it suddenly true. It is a pvevp game, with pvp as endgame content. You will never play an open world sandbox without getting ganked here and there, it really isn't the huge deal that you make it out to be.

"You keep repeating "it's a pvp game" as if that will make it suddenly true. It is a pve game, with pvp content. You will never play BDO or Archeage without getting ganked here and there, it really isn't the huge deal for me persoanlly."
 

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"You keep repeating "it's a pvp game" as if that will make it suddenly true. It is a pve game, with pvp content. You will never play BDO or Archeage without getting ganked here and there, it really isn't the huge deal for me persoanlly."
 

Well, It IS a PvP game at softcap before that though it is pure PvE so as softcap goes up you will be able to advance just know that if you ever decide to PvP and accept darkspirit you will be hard pressed to ever be competitive. .

Advice:

If you want to PvE only, have a guild for GvG  and never engage in PvP, make a clan or guild and make sure all members are willing to never accept the quest. Requirement to stay in your guild..

enjoy your sandbox.

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Posted (edited)

That's why I came to BDO, because it's a PVE game. This game has a little PVP content and all of a sudden it's a "PVP game" to you guys. We ALL want PVP content in this game, me included! But at the same time most of us want to do all of it's PVE content without risk of being griefed. Archeage and game like it left a lasting impression. 
Oh, and I have end game characters in just about every MMO of this genre. Gaming is what I do for a living. Really. I would have bought and reviewed this game regardless. But thanks for your advice. Way to build a community!

The game is a full* MMORPG. It seems to have a balance between PvP and PvE. The Leveling is clearly PvE based (as opposed to xp from killing players or a AFK Skill Level system. The Games Node capture system means that guilds that want to try to control that need to PvP. The Best Gear is dropped by Bosses which means that Guilds that want to take advantage of that need to PvE. The game has tried to balance both sides of it. Some PvE players seem to think that PvE only is their right and screw the PvPers, some PvPers seem to think that PvP PKing anyone anywhere is their right and screw the PvEers. 

The issue. Neither side is right.. both sides have the right to exist. We need to respect both sides. PvPers need to curb their desire to grieve people with lowbie hunting and PvE players need to curb their desire to grieve people with passive aggressive "suicide karma attacks", Kill Stealing and other forms of Grief on any player. It isn't us vs them. It is us with them to make the game great. The Community makes a game and if both sides want to punish the other that becomes a problem and ruins the game. 

*full is subjective in that BDO is clearly not full finished yet even on the Korean servers. That isn't uncommon but there is a lot to do and more is coming. 

Edited by Kaziklu

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Actualy it´s not that difficult,

When you see a known PKer grinding mobs to get rid of his karma, just put yourself UNFLAGGED in the path of his attacks ;)

Get yourself killed (Shouldn´t be that hard if you´re running around without gear)

Shitload of karma gained

rinse and repeat

Problem solved

This is of course totally bullshit for people who WANT to run around red...

Maybe you should play a pve game then. BDO is all about combining every aspect of MMOs.

Aren't those the ones you guys are most salty about? Why punish the average pvper who is trying not to be outlaw. I don't understand what you hope to gain by suiciding into people who aren't even trying to kill anyone.

Didn´t read, did you ;)

 

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Posted (edited)

The game is a full* MMORPG. It seems to have a balance between PvP and PvE. The Leveling is clearly PvE based (as opposed to xp from killing players or a AFK Skill Level system. The Games Node capture system means that guilds that want to try to control that need to PvP. The Best Gear is dropped by Bosses which means that Guilds that want to take advantage of that need to PvE. The game has tried to balance both sides of it. Some PvE players seem to think that PvE only is their right and screw the PvPers, some PvPers seem to think that PvP PKing anyone anywhere is their right and screw the PvEers. 
The issue. Neither side is right.. both sides have the right to exist. We need to respect both sides. PvPers need to curb their desire to grieve people with lowbie hunting and PvE players need to curb their desire to grieve people with passive aggressive "suicide karma attacks", Kill Stealing and other forms of Grief on any player. It isn't us vs them. It is us with them to make the game great. The Community makes a game and if both sides want to punish the other that becomes a problem and ruins the game. 

*full is subjective in that BDO is clearly not full finished yet even on the Korean servers. That isn't uncommon but there is a lot to do and more is coming. 

I agree with you. I love the node GVG wars and that they included so much PVP content for you guys that like that kind of thing. I loved how Tera did it with the floating castles too, very cool. Honestly I wish they would have given some form of PVP currency to spend at a PVP merchant. That would encourage more PVP flagging.

Edited by Stabby

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Posted

Yea all rides back to the point that this game is a sandbox, not a theme park. You may not have to participate in PvP, but doesn't exclude you from being apart of it.

If your in a guild, and a guild goes to war with you, you don't have a choice, this is non consensual.

If your doing an imperial trade run/ black market run, be ready to fight, no pun intended.

No one is saying that you have to play the game a certain way, PvE all you want, your helping the game grow either way, but don't think your excluded from PvP, unless you go really out of your way to make that happen, at that point your only holding yourself back from fully enjoying all the aspects this game has to offer.

How do you 100% avoid PvP... Simple.... don't reach the level cap, whatever that may be at launch.

What your missing out on if you go that route as far as PvE goes..

World Bosses

Open World Dungeons

Actually fighting challenging mobs, yes there in the game, but you need to be around 50 plus to even get to them (Pirate Island, Velencia, Calpheon)

Being limited to around 15% of the game world, unless you want to be ganked by mobs

 

But wait this is a constructive unbiased post from a pro PvPer/PKer? I doubt it will be acknowledged in any way, because you know, were all about ruining peoples days, and not wanting people to actually think for themseves in a SANDBOX MMO, crazy I know.

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