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build Witch/wizard as a support caster


40 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Hey,

Some time ago a friend of mine introduced me to the game. And i decide i wanted to paly in when it is released.

I was planning of playing a witch/wizard. but is it doable to play them as a support role?

What  i founded so far on the wiki/forums it should b doable but how is leveling if you go that way?

the build i was planning to do is the following: http://www.blackdeserttome.com/calculator/wizard/3225#

Thanks in advance

edit. the plan so far for a supportive witch/wizard shall be: http://www.blackdeserttome.com/calculator/wizard/3436

this build is for lvl 50 whit and i took a skill point cap of 500

might swap over de freeze/fog spell over for a a extra lvl of fireball explosion

edit2: after some more finetuning i came up whit this build for a supportive witch/wizard:

http://www.blackdeserttome.com/calculator/wizard/3699

it got all the heal and support skills that a worth to use.

it still got some of the good dmg spells like lightning residue and fireball exposion maxed.

its aimed to be useable at lvl 50 whit 500 skillpoints (since that is the soft cap)

Edited by Chomp

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Posted

I admit I am not too experienced but I can give some adviced based on what I have read in these forums. Also, read through this thread where someone asked something similar.

First of all don't put any points in staff attack. You're missing the first rank of a couple good nukes like fireball, explosion and meteor shower. Lightning residue is supposed to be one of the best damage dealers later on so you will probably want to spec that out. I don't think freezing needs so many points. If you want to support then you should consider investing into protected area, since it is a group shield that also protects from impairments. The red ball is useless i hear, and the spellbound heart it optional but not necessary. I am sure someone with more experience has more to say but that's what I can tell right off the bat.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the fast reply. I shall edit the build.

 

Edited by Chomp

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Posted

Thanks for the fast reply. I shall edit the build. But i think i wait for some other people opion first.

Magic Pharos is borderline useless on the long run, personally I'd advise taking any rank of it.

Even if you're not planning to take them, at least a single rank on Fireball and Fireball Explosion is worth it for the CC effect. 

I'd personally go for Magic Evasion over Teleport initially. Teleport gets a 2 seconds cooldown reduction on the third rank, which is nice - but it still has a casting time, can be interrupted and so on. For the skill points spent on the last two ranks of the Teleport, you can get 3 more ranks on the Magic Evasion - which is about 75 less stamina used each time you evade. These evasions cost about 200 stamina, and around level 50 you'll have about 1.2-1.4k-ish stamina, so I'd say it adds up pretty well (or take Teleport 2 and Magic Evasion 3).

Revival 3 sounds very expensive to me so early on and borderline useless. I admit it has a nice cooldown reduction on it, but basically you (and your friends) just should try to avoid dying. The free rank 1 is probably sufficient in case something goes wrong, even without resurrection skill the respawns are generally pretty close. 

As mentioned above, Staff attack is useless, Freezing is fine on the first rank and you should definitely look into getting Lightning Residue. Even with all these changes, your damage would be on the lower end, so I'd suggest investing into something else as well (nukes, Lightning Storm, whichever you prefer).

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Posted

Magic Pharos is borderline useless on the long run, personally I'd advise taking any rank of it.

Even if you're not planning to take them, at least a single rank on Fireball and Fireball Explosion is worth it for the CC effect. 

I'd personally go for Magic Evasion over Teleport initially. Teleport gets a 2 seconds cooldown reduction on the third rank, which is nice - but it still has a casting time, can be interrupted and so on. For the skill points spent on the last two ranks of the Teleport, you can get 3 more ranks on the Magic Evasion - which is about 75 less stamina used each time you evade. These evasions cost about 200 stamina, and around level 50 you'll have about 1.2-1.4k-ish stamina, so I'd say it adds up pretty well (or take Teleport 2 and Magic Evasion 3).

Revival 3 sounds very expensive to me so early on and borderline useless. I admit it has a nice cooldown reduction on it, but basically you (and your friends) just should try to avoid dying. The free rank 1 is probably sufficient in case something goes wrong, even without resurrection skill the respawns are generally pretty close. 

As mentioned above, Staff attack is useless, Freezing is fine on the first rank and you should definitely look into getting Lightning Residue. Even with all these changes, your damage would be on the lower end, so I'd suggest investing into something else as well (nukes, Lightning Storm, whichever you prefer).

Teleport is still really useful not just as an evasion but because it takes you pretty far away, so it's a great get out of dodge/movement skill. I'd take both honestly.

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Posted (edited)

Teleport is still really useful not just as an evasion but because it takes you pretty far away, so it's a great get out of dodge/movement skill. I'd take both honestly.

I prefer to confuse my enemies by launching myself at them via Teleport, shanking them and running away with the ever so wonderful, Magic Evasion.

Edited by Yugs

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Posted (edited)

This is just my opinion, but playing "support" at the sacrifice of DPS for PVE is near useless from my experience. AI it terrible and unless people are really getting careless, dying or even coming close shouldn't be a common event. Potions allow all classes to sustain themselves fairly well and having a Wizard/Witch around with even the first rank of healing should be plenty.

For PVP this gets tricky depending on your group and skill levels, but I still see it being a mistake to go with maxing out heal/shields or whatever at the cost of a rank or two of several DPS/CC skills.

This isn't the typical trinity game where a caster can just hang in the back.

Be it PVE or PVP, enemies will be on you and relying on 2 heals with 10 and 30 sec cooldowns and a shields with 1-1.5 min cooldown isn't going to be all that effective. The group heal is slow and the mana shield doesn't seem worth the 1st rank after going up to rank 3 on KR. (Cool down times are for max rank by the way, they are higher for lower ranks).

In my opinion it's better to balance all abilities instead of trying to fit yourself into a particular role. As far as I know, no other class has people trying to do this.

Obviously by a certain point you'll have enough points to put where ever, but lacking a few ranks of fireball, lightning chain/storm, at least once in blizzard/earthquake seems like a sacrifice with little in return.

Edited by APE

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Posted

You could in theory be a support class as long as people are happy to party with you for you to get exp

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Posted

I found this when looking at one point.

http://blackdesertfoundry.com/2015/10/21/wizard-class-guide/

 

I play healers in MMOs so  I am doing the support version

Those builds have some really weird choices/priorities. 

Condensed Magic Arrow over Multiple Magic Arrow? Maxed level Fireball (even before maxing Residual Lightning, Fireball Explosion and Lightning Storm!)?

Also not sure what's the deal with the level 2 Frigid Fog and the Magic Pharos. 

 

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Posted

This is just my opinion, but playing "support" at the sacrifice of DPS for PVE is near useless from my experience. AI it terrible and unless people are really getting careless, dying or even coming close shouldn't be a common event. Potions allow all classes to sustain themselves fairly well and having a Wizard/Witch around with even the first rank of healing should be plenty.

For PVP this gets tricky depending on your group and skill levels, but I still see it being a mistake to go with maxing out heal/shields or whatever at the cost of a rank or two of several DPS/CC skills.

This isn't the typical trinity game where a caster can just hang in the back.

Be it PVE or PVP, enemies will be on you and relying on 2 heals with 10 and 30 sec cooldowns and a shields with 1-1.5 min cooldown isn't going to be all that effective. The group heal is slow and the mana shield doesn't seem worth the 1st rank after going up to rank 3 on KR. (Cool down times are for max rank by the way, they are higher for lower ranks).

In my opinion it's better to balance all abilities instead of trying to fit yourself into a particular role. As far as I know, no other class has people trying to do this.

Obviously by a certain point you'll have enough points to put where ever, but lacking a few ranks of fireball, lightning chain/storm, at least once in blizzard/earthquake seems like a sacrifice with little in return.

You make some good points. However, 10 seconds doesn't seem so bad of a cd on a heal especially in a game with spammable health pots, no? I am just theory crafting as I have never played past level 12. I agree though that it's worth it to get at least the first rank of those spells, especially the cc ones. It seems like this class has a decent amount of CC and that most of the supporting will come from timing those well rather than being healbot.

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Posted (edited)

You make some good points. However, 10 seconds doesn't seem so bad of a cd on a heal especially in a game with spammable health pots, no? I am just theory crafting as I have never played past level 12. I agree though that it's worth it to get at least the first rank of those spells, especially the cc ones. It seems like this class has a decent amount of CC and that most of the supporting will come from timing those well rather than being healbot.

It isn't bad, but also isn't "needed." HP potion spam only happens in PVP from my experience and with the cool down increased for NA/EU, it isn't even very spammy. Mana/Energy potion spam is more of what people/classes rely on to be very effective.

If people are actually needing/relying on a Wizard/Witch to heal them constantly, there is an issue. Obviously someone would be happy to have a free heal/rez/whatever, but unlike trinity games they aren't required to play effectively.

I have five lvl 50s on KR so never gone to the higher end of things myself, but from all the streams/videos and people I've talked to, never seen a Wizard 50+ playing "support" but rather DPS that happens to also have some support to weave into the mix. Much like all classes that have CC or whatever that they mix in during group play.

Guess I look at classes as having a tool belt and those trying to be "support" are aiming at having a really nice hammer instead of a decent variety of tools. If all someone did was hit nails, that hammer would be great, but that isn't how it works.

Edited by APE

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Posted

It isn't bad, but also isn't "needed." HP potion spam only happens in PVP from my experience and with the cool down increased for NA/EU, it isn't even very spammy. Mana/Energy potion spam is more of what people/classes rely on to be very effective.

If people are actually needing/relying on a Wizard/Witch to heal them constantly, there is an issue. Obviously someone would be happy to have a free heal/rez/whatever, but unlike trinity games they aren't required to play effectively.

I have five lvl 50s on KR so never gone to the higher end of things myself, but from all the streams/videos and people I've talked to, never seen a Wizard 50+ playing "support" but rather DPS that happens to also have some support to weave into the mix. Much like all classes that have CC or whatever that they mix in during group play.

Ah ok cool. Well, even though I like playing support I am definitely speccing damage for leveling and then I may redistribute my points once I hit 50 if I can bear to part with any skills in exchange for better heals. I think it will all become clear once I can actually play the game. Agghghg so close yet so far away!

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Posted (edited)

So it would be better to build my witch/wizard the dps way whit a few ranks in heal and stuff like that?

It not like i am plannig to have no dmg spells maxed.

http://www.blackdeserttome.com/calculator/wizard/3304
 

Edited by Chomp

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Posted

So it would be better to build my witch/wizard the dps way whit a few ranks in heal and stuff like that?

It not like i am plannig to have no dmg spells maxed.

http://www.blackdeserttome.com/calculator/wizard/3304
 

you should play it however you want. We get a free respec at level 45 so you can always change it later if whatever you decide on doesn't work out. I was just saying I want damage because I'm trying to hit soft cap asap, but I might respec if I really want to max my heals as soon as I hit 50

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Posted (edited)

So it would be better to build my witch/wizard the dps way whit a few ranks in heal and stuff like that?

It not like i am plannig to have no dmg spells maxed.

http://www.blackdeserttome.com/calculator/wizard/3304
 

For 1-50, I see zero reason to play "support" if that means standing around waiting to heal people, freeze mobs for others, rez, shield others, etc.

DPS is much more effective from my experience.

Past that, depends on what you are doing (PVP Large/Small scale, PVE duo, 5 people, etc).

As you should have a decent number of skill points by 50, the difference between someone being "support" versus being "DPS" is pretty small assuming you don't completely neglect one or the other.. As you gain skill points and levels, this continues to decrease.

If I was in a group with another Wizard, I'd prefer they were blowing things up, not waiting around for the moment they are "needed" or doing less DPS since they have their "just in case" skills ranked higher. But that's me.

BDO is a very selfish game and while it obviously pays to help one another, I would see someone playing "support" to require me to pick up their slack in other ways when they most likely aren't going to be doing much for me in return. Then again, I haven't played 55+ in a group so what do I know ;)

A perfectly timed shield or heal might save me once in a while, but if I'm going down, probably not a lot to stop it. But anyone that wants to toss me some help, I won't stop you :D

Edited by APE

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the reply guys.

About the DPS thing. is there a list of spell cooldowns? if so i could proably see how wel the spell chain up i have picked so far.

lets say i chain up a Magical arrow bunch whit a thunderbolt and a lightning residu. will i be caple of casten them non stop or do i end up whit a down time where i am doing nothing? if its the later matter then i should drop some heal/support stuff for a higher dps

Edited by Chomp

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Posted

Thanks for the reply guys.

About the DPS thing. is there a list of spell cooldowns? if so i could proably see how wel the spell chain up i have picked so far.

lets say i chain up a Magical arrow bunch whit a thunderbolt and a lightning residu. will i be caple of casten them non stop or do i end up whit a down time where i am doing nothing? if its the later matter then i should drop some heal/support stuff for a higher dps

ha I searched for this exact thing like an hour ago. I gotchu

 

http://bddatabase.net/us/skills/wizard/

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Posted (edited)

Haha that was fast. but looking at the downtime of those spells isnt higher then 11 seconds i should be cable of weaving the same chain if  i throw in a freeze spell and the fog spell.

i qeuss opening whit a freeze for cc and then magical arrow barrage followed up by a lightningbolt and residue.

just hope the dmg is enough to be of use i quess

Edited by Chomp

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Posted

Haha that was fast. but looking at the downtime of those spells isnt higher then 11 seconds i should be cable of weaving the same chain if  i throw in a freeze spell and the fog spell.

i qeuss opening whit a freeze for cc and then magical arrow barrage followed up by a lightningbolt and residue.

just hope the dmg is enough to be of use i quess

yeah ever since cbt2 I have the weirdest problem where I'm -----ing obsessed and can't leave the forums. I'm sure I'll start recovering once I can actually play xD pray for me

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Posted (edited)

i think i shall stick whit this plan: http://www.blackdeserttome.com/calculator/wizard/3426 (might swap around teleport 2 for magic evasion 4)

Dps should be okay and i still have most of the supportive skills.

the plan we have as a group is proably for group pvp in the end.

while lvling i should proably focus on maxing those dmg spells first.

Edited by Chomp

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Posted

Another thing that has helped me try and plan is knowing that since I'm grinding to 50, I will likely only have about 300 points to work with. The skill point soft cap is at 500 and past that the grind for skills becomes much harder. There are a lot of quests which reward you with skill points (some give skill xp) and my plan is to get to 500 points before doing any of the skill point quests so that I won't have to grind as much. I just thought I'd mention it since you have over 500 points planned out :P

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Posted (edited)

its 20 points over. but if i remove one rank lightning bolt and 2 of mind training it will be a perfect fit.

how manny of the skill point qeust are ther. and how do i know what one those are so i can avoid them early.

http://www.blackdeserttome.com/calculator/wizard/3432

Edited by Chomp

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Posted

Yeah and if you aren't just grinding then you should have plenty of skill points by the time you reach 50. There seemed to be a lot. Someone had linked me a list of every quest but it was in Korean and I can't remember the site. Just check the quest rewards when you accept quests, all the quests will say what they give before you accept it. Some will say skill xp,  but the ones you really wanna save are the ones that say skill points.

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