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[POLL] Your favorite single aspect of PvP

Type   411 votes

  1. 1. Type

    • Ranked 1v1 Arenas
      24
    • Friendly 1v1 Duels
      22
    • Open World Griefing/Ganking (Free for all)
      135
    • Open World Flag System (Both parties must be flagged)
      44
    • Competitive Instanced Team PvP (5v5 / 8v8 / 10v10 / ETC)
      27
    • Open World Siege/Raid Style w/ Unlimited Participation (Zerg/Etc)
      96
    • Balanced Limited Siege/Raid Style w/ Both Sides Having Equal Numbers
      63

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198 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

lol...........................................
You may want to go back to school or something.

You having an opinion of someone elses character is subjective to you, as it's your opinion.
That person and their own self awareness of their own character is subjective to them.

You're right or whatever, it's defined by your actions.
Your actions that you know your reason for.

Anyone else who sees and judges those actions, their judgement based on those actions are subjective to them.

Player Killing, "Griefing", Etc, are Generally subsets of Player Vs. Player.

Your own custom feelings towards the matter are great, but keep them to yourself.
I like to keep things understandable, so I use terms as should be used and append my explanations onto the terms as so that it's more understandable.

With how you people treat the word "PvP", there is no standard among the term, thus allowing for fallacy based argumentative warrant and grounds to be formed in favor of ones point, which at that point? Isn't even valid, due to the fallacy integrated into the warrant and grounds of the argument.

Yes, an opinion of someone's character is subjective. An opinion (subjective) of someone's character (not subjective).

And what someone thinks of themselves (opinion, self-awareness, self-esteem) is also subjective, of their own character (not subjective). Just like how some people can over/undervalue themselves. It's their opinion of their own character that's off the mark, not their character.

I never said that judgement based on those actions was not subjective, in fact, I stated quite the opposite. If you re-read my post you might understand, though at this point I highly doubt it.

What's not to understand? Or are you just not able to keep up? Maybe you don't know the definition of the word grief? You know other things beyond PvP have their own definitions right? I'm talking about griefing, put aside your asinine focus on PvP for one second and you might realise this.

Yes, griefing is a subset of PvP by definition (I never argued that, or claimed otherwise), but the motivation for doing it is very different. When you gank/PK, there's a game-related reason (They're flagged, they tried to kill you, you're trying to take their spot, etc.), when you grief someone (Unprovoked, obviously), it's for a very different reason: Just to ruin their time for your own enjoyment. Motivation is everything.

If you're the type of person who experiences enjoyment by making others miserable, you are a pathetic human being, simple as that. It's irrelevant to the game, irrelevant to PvP, irrelevant to opinions or any external force or influence. If you, internally, get joy out of causing others misery, you are pathetic.

Edited by Daemoroth
Quote got stripped

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Posted

Yes, an opinion of someone's character is subjective. An opinion (subjective) of someone's character (not subjective).

Are you kidding?

Are you kidding me man?

lol you can't be this daft.
So correct me if I'm wrong because shit what?

You're saying that YOUR OPINION, of SOMEONES CHARACTER, is NOT SUBJECTIVE TO YOU, THOUGH IT IS YOUR OPINION.

YOUR DEFINITION OF THAT PERSONS CHARACTER IS NOT SUBJECTIVE TO YOU? EVEN THOUGH IT IS YOURRRRR DEFINITION?

Please feel free to correct me where I'm wrong if I am.
If I'm not, please. Go read something educational.

I don't even know what to do with my life if that's what you're saying LOL.
Why am I sitting here going back and forth with you about something you clearly do not understand and are not educated OR informed in whatsoever.

Get that shit cleared up man. Correct me if I'm wrong, Explain your educational construct regarding your... definitions LOL, else, your points mean nothing to me until you do.

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Posted (edited)

Are you kidding?

Are you kidding me man?

lol you can't be this daft.
So correct me if I'm wrong because shit what?

You're saying that YOUR OPINION, of SOMEONES CHARACTER, is NOT SUBJECTIVE TO YOU, THOUGH IT IS YOUR OPINION.

YOUR DEFINITION OF THAT PERSONS CHARACTER IS NOT SUBJECTIVE TO YOU? EVEN THOUGH IT IS YOURRRRR DEFINITION?

Please feel free to correct me where I'm wrong if I am.
If I'm not, please. Go read something educational.

I don't even know what to do with my life if that's what you're saying LOL.
Why am I sitting here going back and forth with you about something you clearly do not understand and are not educated OR informed in whatsoever.

Get that shit cleared up man. Correct me if I'm wrong, Explain your educational construct regarding your... definitions LOL, else, your points mean nothing to me until you do.

No, I'm saying your OPINION (Which is subjective, being an opinion and all that) of someone's CHARACTER (Who they truly are, CHARACTER NOT being subjective). And OPINION of someone's CHARACTER is SUBJECTIVE. Someone's CHARACTER is NOT subjective. You need to read more slowly.

Your OPINION of the WEATHER, for instance, is SUBJECTIVE (You like it, you don't like it, too hot, too cold, ALL opinions, ALL subjective). However, what the weather IS (Sun is out, few clouds, 38 degrees Celsius with 90% humidity - roughly what we had yesterday) is NOT subjective. My wife's opinion of the weather: She loved it. Mine? Too %!#&ing hot! All opinions.

That does not change what the weather ACTUALLY is, because what it actually IS is NOT subjective.

The same way that your OPINION of someone is SUBJECTIVE. But who they TRULY are, what their character REALLY is (Whether you know it or realise it or not) is NOT subjective.

Come one, you CANNOT be that thick.

Edited by Daemoroth

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Posted (edited)

No, I'm saying your OPINION (Which is subjective, being an opinion and all that) of someone's CHARACTER (Who they truly are, CHARACTER NOT being subjective). And OPINION of someone's CHARACTER is SUBJECTIVE. Someone's CHARACTER is NOT subjective. You need to read more slowly.

Your OPINION of the WEATHER, for instance, is SUBJECTIVE (You like it, you don't like it, too hot, too cold, ALL opinions, ALL subjective). However, what the weather IS (Sun is out, few clouds, 38 degrees Celsius with 90% humidity - roughly what we had yesterday) is NOT subjective. My wife's opinion of the weather: She loved it. Mine? Too %!#&ing hot! All opinions.

That does not change what the weather ACTUALLY is, because what it actually IS is NOT subjective.

The same way that your OPINION of someone is SUBJECTIVE. But who they TRULY are, what their character REALLY is (Whether you know it or realise it or not) is NOT subjective.

Come one, you CANNOT be that thick.

Okay.
So character, is commented and bestowed,  noticed by other people.
This makes your character subjective to me, as in order for me to even take it into consideration, I have to form an opinion in order to do so.

People can attempt to define their own character, but same case applies.
Your definition of your own character will be different than everyone else definition of your character because it's subjective.

Honestly if you don't get it explained this way, I'm not sure what else to do bud. I can try explaining it a different way but you're not one the students I tutor/teach.
Go look up what you're talking about, please.

Ones character is not what you assume it to be lol.
We don't know who anyone "Truly is", because change is always taking place.
That's wayyyyyyyyyyyy far off topic, and can very metaphysical. I'm not here to argue/debate this. If you'd like to, we can do it over discord/ts/whatever in one of my debate/lecture nights and I'll upload it to youtube like I usually do.

Who/what someone "truly is", is subjective, relative, to the entity looking at it in that moment.
As looking at something, for (at least to my recollection) all humans, does not elaborate that persons entire life experiences/occurrences/etc.

You talk as if you're some entity with an all seeing eye. And even then, it's still subjective to you. This is because, to my knowledge... You're the only one who can see everyone else "true character". Therefore, your knowledge of whosoever "true" character, is subjective to you, and relative to that moment.

Edited by War

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Posted

Okay.So character, is commented and bestowed,  noticed by other people.
This makes your character subjective to me, as in order for me to even take it into consideration, I have to form an opinion in order to do so.

People can attempt to define their own character, but same case applies.
Your definition of your own character will be different than everyone else definition of your character because it's subjective.

Honestly if you don't get it explained this way, I'm not sure what else to do bud. I can try explaining it a different way but you're not one the students I tutor/teach.
Go look up what you're talking about, please.

Ones character is not what you assume it to be lol.
We don't know who anyone "Truly is", because change is always taking place.
That's wayyyyyyyyyyyy far off topic, and can very metaphysical. I'm not here to argue/debate this. If you'd like to, we can do it over discord/ts/whatever in one of my debate/lecture nights and I'll upload it to youtube like I usually do.

Who/what someone "truly is", is subjective, relative, to the entity looking at it in that moment.
As looking at something, for (at least to my recollection) all humans, does not elaborate that persons entire life experiences/occurrences/etc.

You talk as if you're some entity with an all seeing eye. And even then, it's still subjective to you. This is because, to my knowledge... You're the only one who can see everyone else "true character". Therefore, your knowledge of whosoever "true" character, is subjective to you, and relative to that moment.

That's where I disagree. Someone's character is not bestowed by other people, that's just other people's opinion of someone, which is subjective. You've simply formed an opinion of someone's character, you didn't form their character.

By the same token, people can form an opinion of their own character, but again, it's a subjective opinion of their character. Someone can be overconfident and have too high an opinion of their own character (Think they're incorruptible, etc), and vice versa, and yes, since it's an opinion, it can (And often will) differ from others' opinion of their character, and will sometimes even differ from their own character (When they're given power, they realise that they actually are very corruptible, as an example). It's why you get self-aware people and people in denial - their opinion of their character vs their actual character.

You really need to learn to separate the concept of opinion and character since you seem to confuse the two constantly. Especially with your "Who/what someone "truly is", is subjective, relative, to the entity looking at it in that moment." line. That's an opinion of who someone is you're talking about (And yes, it's subjective, like all opinions). It's still not their character/who they truly are.

I've never said that someone's character is what you assume it to be, I've always argued the opposite: That someone's character is their true self, who they truly are, opinions be damned. And it can change, yes, but it's always who they truly are (People change, etc).

And I'm not some all-seeing entity, it's why I stressed the point that "It's irrelevant to the game, irrelevant to PvP, irrelevant to opinions or any external force or influence. If youinternally, get joy out of causing others misery, you are pathetic."

I don't know if you experience joy, but that's irrelevant. If you sit there in your room and ONLY you know that you enjoy causing misery in others, it's in your character (Whether anyone knows about it or not), and that makes you pathetic (Generic 'you' obviously).

And since griefing by definition is done with the sole purpose of causing misery in others for their own enjoyment, griefers are pathetic (Please remember that only THEY would know if they're griefing someone, since only they would know whether they're enjoying it, others' opinions about their character don't matter).

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Posted

What the hell has this thread turned into.

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Posted

What the hell has this thread turned into.

Uneducated vs. Educated conversation not even worthy of being defined as an argument as one side lacks grounds & warrant as support.

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Posted

Uneducated vs. Educated conversation not even worthy of being defined as an argument as one side lacks grounds & warrant as support.

That would be your opinion, of course... Maybe the concepts are too advanced for you and no amount of explanation would ever cross your threshold of comprehension.

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Posted (edited)

 As I have a wee bit of free time, I'm going to help you.

That's where I disagree. Someone's character is not bestowed by other people, that's just other people's opinion of someone, which is subjective. You've simply formed an opinion of someone's character, you didn't form their character.

In order to have character as a concept or factor, other entities must be a part of the equation.
One can define their own character but that is subjective to them, and relative to their experience with their own life.
Everyone will see that character differently, as they are not that person.

To my knowledge, there is no definitive record of everyone's "Defined Character" to rule and judge by. Not that we currently have access to at least.
Thusly, the only record to go by is how one defines them self.
Them self and how they define that, subjective.

By the same token, people can form an opinion of their own character, but again, it's a subjective opinion of their character. Someone can be overconfident and have too high an opinion of their own character (Think they're incorruptible, etc), and vice versa, and yes, since it's an opinion, it can (And often will) differ from others' opinion of their character, and will sometimes even differ from their own character (When they're given power, they realise that they actually are very corruptible, as an example). It's why you get self-aware people and people in denial - their opinion of their character vs their actual character.

This is invalidated by my statement before I quoted this section, as, again.
Please guide me to the database that defines everyone's character. 

You really need to learn to separate the concept of opinion and character since you seem to confuse the two constantly. Especially with your "Who/what someone "truly is", is subjective, relative, to the entity looking at it in that moment." line. That's an opinion of who someone is you're talking about (And yes, it's subjective, like all opinions). It's still not their character/who they truly are.

Still invalidated by my original statement.
You're starting to seem like you're more -----y than me.
And I don't like that.
Especially since it's coming from a point of ignorance.

It's almost, and correct me if I'm wrong, you assume that people automatically know your character and that your character is global among everyone's knowledge.

I've never said that someone's character is what you assume it to be, I've always argued the opposite: That someone's character is their true self, who they truly are, opinions be damned. And it can change, yes, but it's always who they truly are (People change, etc).

And I'm not some all-seeing entity, it's why I stressed the point that "It's irrelevant to the game, irrelevant to PvP, irrelevant to opinions or any external force or influence. If youinternally, get joy out of causing others misery, you are pathetic."

I don't know if you experience joy, but that's irrelevant. If you sit there in your room and ONLY you know that you enjoy causing misery in others, it's in your character (Whether anyone knows about it or not), and that makes you pathetic (Generic 'you' obviously).

And since griefing by definition is done with the sole purpose of causing misery in others for their own enjoyment, griefers are pathetic (Please remember that only THEY would know if they're griefing someone, since only they would know whether they're enjoying it, others' opinions about their character don't matter).

Invalid. 

 

That would be your opinion, of course... Maybe the concepts are too advanced for you and no amount of explanation would ever cross your threshold of comprehension.

I'd take a picture of my wall if I didn't care much about my personal information & exact accolades going around a forum with a bunch of trolls.

Edited by War

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Posted

What fun is PvP if you aren't ganking the lowbies!

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Posted

In order to have character as a concept or factor, other entities must be a part of the equation.
One can define their own character but that is subjective to them, and relative to their experience with their own life.
Everyone will see that character differently, as they are not that person.

Incorrect, once again you're unable to separate character and opinion. An opinion of someone is subjective, based on what they've shown you and what you value based on your morals. Anyone defining their own character is simply defining their opinion of their character. Yes, everyone will see it differently since it's an opinion.

To my knowledge, there is no definitive record of everyone "Defined Character" to rule and judge by.
Thusly, the only record to go by is how one defines them self.
Them self and how they define that, subjective.

And this has a point? What does having some definitive record of everyone have to do with anything?

"Them self", assuming you're talking about who they truly are, is not subjective. How they define/form their opinion of who they are is subjective. Remember: learn to separate true identity/character and opinion of that identity/character.

This is invalidated by my statement before I quoted this section, as, again.
Please guide me to the database that defines everyone's character.

Again, why is this even a thing? I've repeatedly stated that character is internal, why would there be some need for a database?

Still invalidated by my original statement.
You're starting to seem like you're more -----y than me.
And I don't like that.
Especially since it's coming from a point of ignorance.

Ignored, pointless and asinine.

It's almost, and correct me if I'm wrong, you assume that people automatically know your character and that your character is global among everyone's knowledge.

How did you come to this conclusion? I mean that seriously, considering I've stated the opposite a couple of times.

Invalid. 

You definitely need to re-read that part, slowly apparently.

Either way, I'm done, I offered to have a chat, but you're either too dense to get the concept of internal character vs external opinions of that character or deliberately misconstruing my points in an effort to support yours.

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Posted

 

The only reason anyone ever wants "open free for all" is to grief people, feel superior, and really in the end just bully them. 

The only reason YOU want open world is for that reason. I like open world PvP because it's better, anything goes, some times I'm out numbered and I feel great when a party tried to gank me but couldn't. Or if I had mobs on me and someone tried to kill me but I burned them down instead. I like OWPvP because you can't turn it off, majority of NA players are scared to PvP because of our "Everyone is a winner" culture. I don't want to go into boring limited arenas. I don't go around ganking, if I see a red and he doesn't attack or he runs, he doesn't want to PvP. Or if someone has a boss on them I leave them alone as well.

 

The only time I just go on a killing spree is for kill quests.

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Posted

I want to start a forest fire.

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Posted

Nothing has been able to beat DAoC's pvp system.

 

It was perfect and this was 12 years ago.

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Posted (edited)

and there you have it from a completely random section of the community :^)

 

93115a7103c58465af09eeb8c746e847.png

Edited by Crazy Mike

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Posted

Uneducated vs. Educated conversation not even worthy of being defined as an argument as one side lacks grounds & warrant as support.

I really hope you aren't trying to pass yourself off as "educated" in some meaningful way lol.

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Posted

I just really like the current Karma + Bounty setup they've already put forward and I really hope it stays that way.

I've been a PvPer for 20 years and seen a lot of games come and go.  Sure the most vocal minority is always going to preach the sermon that unrestricted ganking is all you ever need, but there's just too many dead titles out there which prove what an utter lie that is.  It doesn't take a genius to understand that a winner takes all system eventually Cannibalizes its entire player base until even the top players are no longer having any fun because they can't find a challenge anymore.  We've seen it way too many times in the past to just whistle while looking the other way and pretending it doesn't happen.

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Posted

I really hope you aren't trying to pass yourself off as "educated" in some meaningful way lol.

I know others that would say otherwise.

Either way, I'm done, I offered to have a chat, but you're either too dense to get the concept of internal character vs external opinions of that character or deliberately misconstruing my points in an effort to support yours.

You offered to have a chat. I accepted it.
Make up your mind so we can get this resolved.

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Posted

Pvp for the horses spawn point!

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Posted

True "PVP" I am fine with. PVP is where players that consent to the act and enjoy the challenge and competition. Most players would take part in that type of PVP. Gankers and griefers are the scourge of a game though and if allowed to run freely will finally destroy even a good mmo. I hope the Devs in BDO will not allow the mechanics in this wonderful game to exist where the scourge will destroy it.

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Posted (edited)

What fun is PvP if you aren't ganking the lowbies!

I don't know, perhaps trying to show some actual skill and compete against someone who might kick your a55.

Of course, you're probably one of these:

Gank1.jpg

Edited by Enk

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Posted (edited)

I don't know, perhaps trying to show some actual skill and compete against someone who might kick your a55.

Of course, you're probably one of these:

 

Hey, I don't discriminate when hogwashing my opponents with the blood dripping from my staff from the last player I wtfpwned.  

Edited by zeuseason

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Posted

Open world full on GvG battles, and 1v1 duels! :) 

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