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Agerian VS Tartias Armor

114 posts in this topic

Posted

So let me go a bit more in depth on Valkyrie PvP and gearing accordingly at end game.

Valkyrie PvP is all about our package of disables, one of the reasons we get an accuracy bonus is that our entire class is based on this set of skills.  Thanks to downed and back attack bonuses our damage becomes a priority only after the stats that focus on the primary goal of succeeding with our disables. What this means is that our stat priority is:

Accuracy(17) > Cast Speed(5) > AP > DP > Movement Speed > Accuracy(18+)

What this means is that Accuracy up to 17 is basically required for any end game character and with our built in bonuses is also an acceptable point of diminishing returns for Valkyries. After that the priority is capping the Cast Speed bonus and focusing on AP. When filling out gear slots such as the 4th armor piece above whichever set you choose DP is more important than movement speed and additional accuracy. Some people may prefer movement speed but the actuality of end game PvP favors DP for classes that have the survivability of a Valkyrie. Also realize that the higher our AP value the more diminished the returns since we can combo off lethal damage on a disabled opponent very easily thanks to downed bonuses and with a much lower AP value than is required by other classes.

With this in mind the best set is a 3-piece Agerian main set using Helm, Chest, Gloves. The Gloves are important because of the cast speed bonus they provide. Using this set and a couple of crystals we can easily cap our Cast Speed. I personally choose to fill out with the Agerian Boots for the higher DP and +1 Speed but Talis is acceptable with lower DP and higher Speed. The Yuria weapon once upgraded is achievable for everyone and eventually you want a Laverto, Laverto weapons are harder to come by and more expensive to enchant and upkeep so you will want a solid income stream to persue them. The offhand preference is Vangertz Shield, it may not have the AP but the Accuracy gains for enchanting it allow us to easily make up the difference on other pieces by not having to worry about accuracy.

Our accessories are basically the same as for most classes; Mark of Shadow Ring (AP), Witch's Earring (AP) and Kalis Belt for the last bit of Accuracy.

Thanks for the explaination. Can you tell me how much accuracy the yuria longsword provides per enchantment level? Same for the vangertz shield? I just want to fully understand where my +17 accuracy is coming from.

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Posted

Your post is quite interesting. Can you explain more about the 17 accuracy threshold and why you think more than that isn't too important?

I was planning on going Agerian at launch but pretty much everyone I know that played competitively on KR argued that a +15 Vangertz isn't enough on its own.

Thanks for the explaination. Can you tell me how much accuracy the yuria longsword provides per enchantment level? Same for the vangertz shield? I just want to fully understand where my +17 accuracy is coming from.

So we actually get Accuracy from 4 pieces of gear: The Yuria Weapon, Vangertz Shield, Kalis Belt, Kalis Necklace (I appear to have left this off the original post.)

I can't explain all the math behind the accuracy number but somewhere between 15-17 there is a point where it has a diminishing influence on PvP calculations. This was something we learned from the Korean community and will likely be proven again on the NA/EU client. The Kalis Necklace and Belt both at enchant level II give a total of 12 Accuracy, the rest is more then made up for by the two weapons slots. I'm not familiar with the actual Accuracy granted by the weapons but know that its enough. Additionally when we get the Yuria to +15 and can upgrade it to the ultimate version we get a level of Cast Speed off of it.

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Posted (edited)

 

So we actually get Accuracy from 4 pieces of gear: The Yuria Weapon, Vangertz Shield, Kalis Belt, Kalis Necklace (I appear to have left this off the original post.)

I can't explain all the math behind the accuracy number but somewhere between 15-17 there is a point where it has a diminishing influence on PvP calculations. This was something we learned from the Korean community and will likely be proven again on the NA/EU client. The Kalis Necklace and Belt both at enchant level II give a total of 12 Accuracy, the rest is more then made up for by the two weapons slots. I'm not familiar with the actual Accuracy granted by the weapons but know that its enough. Additionally when we get the Yuria to +15 and can upgrade it to the ultimate version we get a level of Cast Speed off of it.

As interesting to hear as it is, I'm still of the opinion that Taritas is a better choice for me. A harder hitting SoJ is more important to me than a faster hitting one. And only to add to that, Taritas lets you go with a Bares belt and amulet for more AP.

Thanks for the information, either way. I might consider going with Agerian gloves, at least.

Edited by Gac

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Posted

How does the +5 from Taritas compensate for the +12 Accuracy your missing off a PRII kalis belt and necklace, It would let you run the bares belt instead and require a PRIII necklace to reach the same Accuracy number. The Kalis Necklace is still best in slot for EVERY CLASS in the game because of the amount of Accuracy it provides.

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Posted

How do you see how much accuracy you are getting from enhancement on an item that gives accuracy per enhancement?

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Posted

How does the +5 from Taritas compensate for the +12 Accuracy your missing off a PRII kalis belt and necklace, It would let you run the bares belt instead and require a PRIII necklace to reach the same Accuracy number. The Kalis Necklace is still best in slot for EVERY CLASS in the game because of the amount of Accuracy it provides.

Does it have to compensate? I feel like the 7 accuracy with the gloves added plus the Vangertz and upgraded Yuria would be more than enough. Even you argued earlier that AP > 18+ accuracy.

Now you're arguing that over 17 accuracy is more important than stacking AP? I am a bit confused at this point about your stat priorities.

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Posted

As interesting to hear as it is, I'm still of the opinion that Taritas is a better choice for me. A harder hitting SoJ is more important to me than a faster hitting one. And only to add to that, Taritas lets you go with a Bares belt and amulet for more AP.

Thanks for the information, either way. I might consider going with Agerian gloves, at least.

Does it have to compensate? I feel like the 7 accuracy with the gloves added plus the Vangertz and upgraded Yuria would be more than enough. Even you argued earlier that AP > 18+ accuracy.

Now you're arguing that over 17 accuracy is more important than stacking AP? I am a bit confused at this point about your stat priorities.

So I'm confused are you or are you not planning to use the Kalis Necklace, cause in the first statement you seem to suggest no which is what my reply was about, but in your response to reference 7 accuracy that I can only assume comes from the Kalis Necklace? If you want to use my own statement regarding stat priorities then you shouldn't be using Taritas anyway because you are going to have a hard time capping Cast Speed w/o sacrificing somewhere else.

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Posted (edited)

Based off this thread I had a chance to test out Agerian and Tartias. I find cast speed is more beneficial than the extra divine power. Blocking and forward slash should generate enough divine power to cast skills. Currently running 3 pieces Agerian with Zereth helm for knockdown resistance.

 

Tartias might be better if you are able to cap cast spell from gems though 

Edited by PuppetYuber

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Posted (edited)

 

So I'm confused are you or are you not planning to use the Kalis Necklace, cause in the first statement you seem to suggest no which is what my reply was about, but in your response to reference 7 accuracy that I can only assume comes from the Kalis Necklace? If you want to use my own statement regarding stat priorities then you shouldn't be using Taritas anyway because you are going to have a hard time capping Cast Speed w/o sacrificing somewhere else.

You get 2 from the gloves and 5 from the set bonus. 7 total.

With that plus Vangertz and upgraded Yuria your accuracy should be fine enough to pile on AP everywhere else.

Based off this thread I had a chance to test out Agerian and Tartias. I find cast speed is more beneficial than the extra divine power. Blocking and forward slash should generate enough divine power to cast skills. Currently running 3 pieces Agerian with Zereth helm for knockdown resistance.

Tartias might be better if you are able to cap cast spell from gems though 

Keep in mind that SoJ damage increases based on your maximum SP. It isn't just about having a larger pool to work with/recovery alone. You can also awaken skills to gain a similar damage scaling increase. Simply put, Taritas is a more powerful armor set if your focus is damage. Obviously if speed is your goal, go with Agerian and Talis boots.

As has been said several times, both sets are totally fine. One lets you hit faster, and one lets you hit harder. It's just a matter of preference and what better fits your personal play style.

Edited by Gac

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Posted (edited)

Scaling isn't as high as you think though

10% of 100 DP for only 1 skill 

whereas cast speed benefit all your skills and effectively translate to roughly 10-15% DPS 

 

I mean ideally, it would still be better to cap cast spell from gems/ equipment and use Tartias for the bonus. Not sure if this is achievable though 

Edited by PuppetYuber

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Posted (edited)

Scaling isn't as high as you think though

10% of 100 DP for only 1 skill 

whereas cast speed benefit all your skills and effectively translate to roughly 10-15% DPS 

I mean ideally, it would still be better to cap cast spell from gems/ equipment and use Tartias for the bonus. Not sure if this is achievable though 

It's 10% of 120, not 100. Don't forget about the item bonus from the chest.

Additionally, the 10% additional damage is applied per Final Smash. The tool tip is somewhat confusing about it due to vague word choice, but I interpret that statement as meaning per hit of Final Smash since it hits twice--or three times if you unlock the ultimate at 51. Either way, even if that isn't the case, it's a much larger damage increase than you think, and it often means one-shotting mobs versus leaving them at 20-25%. As you stack up your AP and factor in things like downed+back bonuses that difference balloons farther away from Agerian numbers.

Besides, if maxing cast time was really that important to me, I could easily drop the Zereth boots out of my build and wear a Heve helmet dumping two +2 cast time gems into it and eating food to make up the final rank until I upgrade my Yuria sword. Cast time is plentiful in this game. It is not scarce nor is it hard to fit into your build. This exact method is partially why Grunil will become best in slot when we get it.

But increasing your SP without gimping your damage is hard to fit into your build; especially when Taritas coincides with a massive accuracy boost that allows you to run Bares amulet and belt, I honestly don't really get why there's even an argument about this. It seemed kind of obvious to me to go Taritas if you want to maximize damage.

That isn't to say Agerian doesn't have its own upsides. Move speed is pretty huge, especially for such a slow class as valkyrie, and that was really the one thing I was looking at when I was originally planning my character for launch. They're both viable and completely fine so long as you build around their deficiencies and take advantage of what they offer (i.e., slotting in Bares vs. Kalis).

Edited by Gac

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Posted

I've been using Taritas with Zereth boots. Another thing that I really like is Breath of Elion is % based. More SP = More restored SP.

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Posted

as a valk u should use Zereth gear to get that toughness and more dmg to different types of monsters.

 

Taritias is a horrible armor and so is agerian for a valk.

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Posted

as a valk u should use Zereth gear to get that toughness and more dmg to different types of monsters.

 

Taritias is a horrible armor and so is agerian for a valk.

You're going to have to explain why Agerian and Taritas armor are so horrible as a Valk, because as far as everyone else is concerned, they're both fairly acceptable.

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Posted

Super WRONG thing to do but i'm using 3pc Zereth cause it looks way cooler than Agerian (IMO), and then Agerian gloves for the Attack Speed...

Fashion Souls all the way!

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Posted

It's 10% of 120, not 100. Don't forget about the item bonus from the chest.

This isn't really helping your argument tbh, 12 damage on 3rd hit SoJ seems minuscule at best, whereas 20% more cast speed effects your whole combo, allowing you faster, safer, and better combos.

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Posted

So far with my 3 piece taritas along with Agerian gloves I managed to get 5 attack speed and cast speed. My accessories are still a work in progress along with my shield but so far it's pretty hard for people to kill me in pvp and my burst damage is great. For the yuria, i took it to temptation to grab the attack speed and cast speed with a +1 crit. Since valks have lots of high crit rate moves, i put an attack speed level 2/crit rate -1 gem in my sword, attack speed and cast speed +1 in my gloves, a cast speed +2 gem in my helmet and with my gloves having its equip effect already at +1 attack speed and cast speed, this puts me at 5 attack and cast speed. So far I am missing gems from my chest, boots, and offhand because temporary luck gems are in there for pve. A lot of good advice in this thread, but this is a setup i'm pretty comfortable playing with. If anyone has any advice on what accessories to aim for, feel free to give me your opinion :)

 

TgMkjY7.png

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Posted

Pretty sure attack speed is nearly useless for Valkyrie. Only the grab and kicks are affected by it where all other skills are influenced by spell speed. 

 

Would likely want to dump the attack speed gems for something else. 

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Posted

I went with 3 piece agerian and talis boots for an extra 1 movement.  I dont think the talis boots lower dp is noticeable at higher enchant levels, but pvping with a higher movement speed is definately to your advantage.  I did look at zereth boots as a possibility though.

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Posted (edited)

I ended up using Tartias Helm + Boot with Agerian Glove and Chest for cast speed / hp and SP 

Working out amazing - overall I lost 1 cast speed because I ended up added a cast speed gem

Thanks Gac :)

 

as for accessories, just go for the standard witch earrings + mark of shadow rings + Rh (dunno the exact name) belt or Yuria belt - currently using Bares necklace because Ogre necklace is impossible to get? :(

Edited by PuppetYuber

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Posted

I went with 3 piece agerian and talis boots for an extra 1 movement.  I dont think the talis boots lower dp is noticeable at higher enchant levels, but pvping with a higher movement speed is definately to your advantage.  I did look at zereth boots as a possibility though.

Same here. Running either 3pc agerian and zereth or Talis boots. Still planning out which I value more, the extra Stam or 2 ms. I wouldn't mind caping move and cast speeds.

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Posted

So far with my 3 piece taritas along with Agerian gloves I managed to get 5 attack speed and cast speed. My accessories are still a work in progress along with my shield but so far it's pretty hard for people to kill me in pvp and my burst damage is great. For the yuria, i took it to temptation to grab the attack speed and cast speed with a +1 crit. Since valks have lots of high crit rate moves, i put an attack speed level 2/crit rate -1 gem in my sword, attack speed and cast speed +1 in my gloves, a cast speed +2 gem in my helmet and with my gloves having its equip effect already at +1 attack speed and cast speed, this puts me at 5 attack and cast speed. So far I am missing gems from my chest, boots, and offhand because temporary luck gems are in there for pve. A lot of good advice in this thread, but this is a setup i'm pretty comfortable playing with. If anyone has any advice on what accessories to aim for, feel free to give me your opinion :)

 

TgMkjY7.png

Ahh, that sure looks nice. 400 SP with Lvl 5 Casting Speed *drool*

Whelp, going to +13 on my yuria left me almost broke... Will be some time until i get that damned thing to +15. Can't believe how soon some of you got to +15, any tipps? Black spirit keeps trolling me so hard he even let me succeed in accessory enchants at +1 or +2... Dunno if i should consider safe enchanting for +14 and +15. I wasted so much money on stupid 25k rings i could cry and didn't even reach a +5 failsafe.

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Posted

You get nice cast speed only wiht agerian gloves, so I'm using Taritas w/ Agerian gloves. Agerian armor with +HP is shit compared to Taritas for example.

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Posted

I'm settled at 3 piece Agerian w/ Zereth helm for knockdown resistance. It has helped with Rangers that manage to hit me with explosive shot. With a +2 cast speed gem in helm and +2 run speed in boots. The rest of my crystals are just luck and junk AP crystals I've thrown in along the way. Still enhancing gear and prepping for gear reform when it hits +15. At this point I would still argue that for PvP the Agerian set is better but most people are more concerned with PvE for which I can see the benefits of Taritas.

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Posted

For tips. I just keep enchanting with the thought in my head that eventually it'll work. I buy my yuria from the general merchants and just keep going with my stones. It took me 38 fails to go from 13-14 but then took 11 to get 14-15. Also keep in mind, that saving 15-20 fail stacks and swapping to another character is a great way to use those for enchanting maybe a mark of shadows or witch earring. It's also pretty much a guaranteed +16 when mediah comes out. RNG is also RNG though. I just got my liverto longsword and at +7 it failed once already going to +8 with 10 stacks. So tl:dr, just keep enchanting with the thought in your head "it's going to eventually work" 

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