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Lieto' pre-Mediah guide on Ranger


347 posts in this topic

Posted

@Lieto Have you tried Ultimate Tearing Arrow yet? I am 55 but im not sure how useful this skill is...

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Posted

Regarding the 2 piece Heve suggested in this build (or 3 piece in others) is there even a Heve armor workshop to upgrade the gear, i can find everything else but not Heve. It's getting rather frustrating because i'd really like to upgrade my 2x15 pieces to get that last defense.

 

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Posted

Regarding the 2 piece Heve suggested in this build (or 3 piece in others) is there even a Heve armor workshop to upgrade the gear, i can find everything else but not Heve. It's getting rather frustrating because i'd really like to upgrade my 2x15 pieces to get that last defense.

 

As I understand it there isn't, which is the trade off you make for having two gem slots.

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Posted

What ap/dp do you recommend to farm mutated tree spirits at 53, similarly will I need to use a bronze dagger as well as the accuracy special since they will be purple to me. Currently I have 115 ap with a +8 steel off hand and 5 accuracy from rings of good deeds along with a +15 liverto.

thanks 

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Posted

As I understand it there isn't, which is the trade off you make for having two gem slots.

This doesn't make much sense given how not a single one of Heve's items come with "innate" effects. They do have set bonuses. but no Item Effects.

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Posted

This doesn't make much sense given how not a single one of Heve's items come with "innate" effects. They do have set bonuses. but no Item Effects.

Gems > Small bonuses

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Posted

Gems > Small bonuses

Speaking of stats, yeah. But keep in mind the added "cost" of gems in case they break and need to be replaced :3 

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Posted (edited)

Speaking of stats, yeah. But keep in mind the added "cost" of gems in case they break and need to be replaced :3 

Going for BiS always has farming and time consumption attached to it. You shouldn't be worrying about BiS anything if you're too lazy to put the work forward to getting it. Not having a forge to increase quality doesn't bother me because that's what the gem slots make up for and allow much more customization then a small passive increase from increasing quality.

Edited by Shanst Takeda

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Posted

Gems > Small bonuses

Not true. Zareth boots offer 200 stamina which you can't get with gems before Mediah and after Mediah it's exactly 200. So it gets a gem as an effect. Let's not forget you can upgrade Zareth into gold which will give it more armour and resistances. 

Knockdown resist on Zareth helm is also not really worse than a gem slot.

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Posted (edited)

As the devs said "Mediah is coming very soon" I heard some buzz about 2 Gundril 2 Heve was the way to go. That makes me hesitate on upping my second Zereth to +15 blue. Any thoughts and info on this please? What pieces of Heve/Gundril would be a nice combo for example?

source: https://www.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/4atlqz/daum_qa_summary/

Edited by Antiwipe

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Posted (edited)

As the devs said "Mediah is coming very soon" I heard some buzz about 2 Gundril 2 Heve was the way to go. That makes me hesitate on upping my second Zereth to +15 blue. Any thoughts and info on this please? What pieces of Heve/Gundril would be a nice combo for example?

source: https://www.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/4atlqz/daum_qa_summary/

Heve Helm and gloves for +250 HP
Grunil Armor and shoes for +150 HP

In total you get 400HP. Not much of a difference, really.

Stamina is important though, Zereth boots is still the way to go. Spank it with +150 Stamina crystal and kabam. ezpz.

 

And since you got Heve already, just stick with it.

Edited by Katsuie

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Posted

Not true. Zareth boots offer 200 stamina which you can't get with gems before Mediah and after Mediah it's exactly 200. So it gets a gem as an effect. Let's not forget you can upgrade Zareth into gold which will give it more armour and resistances. 

Knockdown resist on Zareth helm is also not really worse than a gem slot.

We're talking about about the Heve we will be using. The reason their's no forge to upgrade it is because it is already "upgraded" through the additional crystal and customization you get from it. Sure Zereth can be upgraded and you should be at least using the boots, but you're not going to be using a 4 piece Zereth because you want to upgrade it. It'll be worthless.

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Posted

Heve Helm and gloves for +250 HPGrunil Armor and shoes for +150 HP

In total you get 400HP. Not much of a difference, really.

Stamina is important though, Zereth boots is still the way to go. Spank it with +150 Stamina crystal and kabam. ezpz.

 

And since you got Heve already, just stick with it.

At the moment I'm following this guides recommendation with Zereth head/shoes and Heve armor/hands. I don't get really if you recommend 2-1-1 set, seems bit weird to not collect setbonuses but I donno. What would be good a good gear swap if you followed this guide gearing?

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Posted

At the moment I'm following this guides recommendation with Zereth head/shoes and Heve armor/hands. I don't get really if you recommend 2-1-1 set, seems bit weird to not collect setbonuses but I donno. What would be good a good gear swap if you followed this guide gearing?

Like majority of everyone else, I run Heve head, armor and gloves with Zereth shoes. I understand why OP would would choose Head Zereth as well, but its all depends on how you play. If you find yourself getting CC'd out the butt, it may help to invest into Zereth. BUT if you already invested into Helm&boots Zereth / Heve chest&gloves, stick with it. Its good either way.

This is what I'm running (excuse my DP. Heve wont drop and is stupid expensive on the market. And a accidental and stupid way to get fail stacks on my gloves) ; 
cda29e974c.jpg

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Posted

We're talking about about the Heve we will be using. The reason their's no forge to upgrade it is because it is already "upgraded" through the additional crystal and customization you get from it. Sure Zereth can be upgraded and you should be at least using the boots, but you're not going to be using a 4 piece Zereth because you want to upgrade it. It'll be worthless.

My point is that flat out difference of 2+2 vs 3+1 is

200 stamina + knockdown resistance + armor + resistance to all attacks through upgrades vs

50 hp and 1 socket

You can choose the later but i can't see how it can be viewed as a better option on any scale of imagination tbh. Lets not forget Zareth is usually cheaper as well.

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Posted

Hey man,

First off wanna say, nice write up. Always nice to read a piece of someone who has experience with a Class!

 

Now I strongly disagree with your maxing of 'Spirit Healing'. This is one of the most useless skills for ranger imo.

The on Hit effect is only triggered with basic bow shot (Who the F uses that?) and the passive regen is only semi usefull in PvE,

since you have to not be fighting to even get the passive regen, wich in turn makes it completely useless in PvP.

 

Just Q canceling on +5 mobs puts me on full mana and I can farm with small mana pots if I somehow run out.

Skill points are WAY too valuable to be put into something as mediocre as Spriit Healing!

 

So just my 2 cents :)

Again nice piece, just that one part bugged me :D

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Posted (edited)

My point is that flat out difference of 2+2 vs 3+1 is

200 stamina + knockdown resistance + armor + resistance to all attacks through upgrades vs

50 hp and 1 socket

You can choose the later but i can't see how it can be viewed as a better option on any scale of imagination tbh. Lets not forget Zareth is usually cheaper as well.

Because max stamina doesn't mean anything past a certain point as it doesn't raise your stamina regen and once it's depleted it's useless as you're not going to be waiting to regen full stamina before doing anything...ever unless you're PVEing and running between mobs. So now it comes down to whether you value the +100 hp (50 set + 50 gem) over a very minor increase in DP which means pretty much nothing to ranger as we have no innate defense and getting cc chained with 10 more dp is still going to rock our world. If Zereth had stun/stifle resist i would value it higher since we struggle more against classes with stuns and stifle then we do knockdowns, and we can still put a 25% gem in our boots. 100 hp > 10 dp (if that).

Edited by Shanst Takeda

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Posted (edited)

So let me get this straight:

+200 max stamina that lets you fight or run away for 10% longer means nothing

Knockdown resistance that gives you 15% to not get knocked down and die 100 to 0 means nothing (that is 15 duels out of 100 that you loose straight away)

5% of extra armour and resistances means nothing

but 6% more hp makes a whole lot of difference. Am i interpreting you correctly? This sounds extremely absurd to me tbh.

Now I strongly disagree with your maxing of 'Spirit Healing'. This is one of the most useless skills for ranger imo.

Spirit healing works with explosive shot.  

Edited by li3to

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Posted (edited)

So let me get this straight:

+200 max stamina that lets you fight or run away for 10% longer means nothing

Knockdown resistance that gives you 15% to not get knocked down and die 100 to 0 means nothing (that is 15 duels out of 100 that you loose straight away)

5% of extra armour and resistances means nothing

but 6% more hp makes a whole lot of difference. Am i interpreting you correctly? This sounds extremely absurd to me tbh.

Spirit healing works with explosive shot.  

200 stamina that is only useful at the very beginning of a fight and 10% longer, so what 1 second? How many times do you run or fight and wait to get stamina back to 100% before fighting or sprinting again? Also, you'll run out of mana before you'll run out of stamina....and you'll be gated by mana potions anyways.

Knockdown resist that really alone affects sorc as most classes are either stuns/stifles or grabs which 15% KNOCKDOWN resist does nothing and I haven't found a sorc that can 100-0 me yet, but I can 100-0 them rather quickly. (not saying they do bad damage, just saying It takes at minimum 2 cc chains to kill me)

5% extra armor aka 5 DP means nothing, we're squishy with NO INNATE defensive abilities. 5 DP does nothing for us, we will get kill just as fast with 5 more DP as we do with 5 less DP.

6% hp AKA 100 hp = higher chance of not getting bursted quickly as you have the extra hp to spam an hp pot, more damage on hp scaling abilities aka blasting gust 10*363%=36.3*2hits= 72.6*1.5 with 100% chance to crit = 108.9 damage per blasting gust and with 5% wotw awakening 5*100%=5*5hits=25 for melee range + 5*308%=15.4 totaling 39.4 extra damage per wotw. Penetrating Wind for long range sniping 10*631%=63.1*3hits=189.3*1.5 100% crit= 283.95 bonus damage.

So yes, I highly value 6% aka 100hp over 5 DP, 15% knockdown that is only useful against very few classes (I don't even count tamer...I mean come on and their howl is also a stun I believe) when I can still get 25% from boot gem, and 200 stamina (I'm at 1900 stamina without it and have zero problems with stamina) where it's only good for initial part of fight and if you do NOT 100-0 them is useless as you'll never be running to 100% stamina unless you're seriously trying to run and hide with a Ghillie suit to try to pot up again since they are kicking your ass. Only time you'll be at 100% stamina again to benefit.

Also, if you do get stuck in a CC chain, what is the 200 stamina doing for you? Nothing at all compared to an extra 100 hp. Zereth helm is a preference, and I'm explaining why I prefer not to use it.

Edited by Shanst Takeda

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Posted

So let me get this straight:

+200 max stamina that lets you fight or run away for 10% longer means nothing

Knockdown resistance that gives you 15% to not get knocked down and die 100 to 0 means nothing (that is 15 duels out of 100 that you loose straight away)

5% of extra armour and resistances means nothing

but 6% more hp makes a whole lot of difference. Am i interpreting you correctly? This sounds extremely absurd to me tbh.

Spirit healing works with explosive shot.  

Interesting argument here. I know that I'm personally running 2 Zereth/2 Heve, recently converted to that after noticing how goddamn annoying it is to be knocked down by every wizard's lightning field. I agree with li3to that the 200 stamina, on top of the 15% knockdown resistance, can really make your life easier in PvP. That 15% has saved me quite a few times. 

In my opinion though, that's what going for 2 Zereth pieces does. It makes your life easier. If you're playing perfectly, then the extra +100HP provided by the Heve helmet (Assuming you're using a +50HP/+5 HP recovery gem) gives you a tiny bit of survivability and a tiny bit of bonus damage through the % max HP scalings. This is a very small amount of bonus damage that you wouldn't have if you were using the Zereth helmet. Although it can be argued that the +200 stamina of the Zereth helmet is the equivalent of damage, you have no idea what you're going to be using this stamina for. You could be using it to re-position 9 times out of 10. Who knows. 

My point is, I believe running the Heve helmet provides a small damage increase, and if you're playing perfectly (and let's be honest, no one will be, every one makes mistakes, and you're going to get blindsided by a gank at some point) it's beneficial to run with 3 Heve/1 Zereth. Otherwise, I think Zereth is better simply for the variety of defense it provides. The stamina can be used to run, or re-position, or squeeze out that little bit of damage you need to finish a target. The small amount of DP isn't particularly noticeable, but it's there, and that 15% KD resistance is definitely noticeable. I didn't discuss the upgraded variants of Zereth, as an Ultimate Zereth Helmet is pretty clearly superior to a Heve helmet. I'd be impressed if someone could convince me any reason to use Heve instead of an Ultimate Zereth. 

TL;DR: Sue me. 

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Posted

5% extra armor aka 5 DP means nothing, we're squishy with NO INNATE defensive abilities. 5 DP does nothing for us, we will get kill just as fast with 5 more DP as we do with 5 less DP.

It's not just 5DP it's also +2 resist to all attacks and while i don't know how exactly does it work the defensive boost you get from golden zareth helm can certainly be comparable to 100hp. At that point you get 200 stamina and 15% knockdown resist virtually "for free" AND you don't need to worry about loosing those stones either. 

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Posted

i noticed people shooting shotgun into an orange arrow to regain positioning, what is that skill? seems easier than readjusting camera every time to go forward

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Posted (edited)

 

 

5% extra armor aka 5 DP means nothing, we're squishy with NO INNATE defensive abilities. 5 DP does nothing for us, we will get kill just as fast with 5 more DP as we do with 5 less DP.

6% hp AKA 100 hp = higher chance of not getting bursted quickly as you have the extra hp to spam an hp pot,

 

I'm sorry, but wouldn't 5% extra armor be comparable to 6% HP? Saying that "higher HP means that you have extra HP to spam a hp pot" should be the same as saying "higher DP means you have extra HP (because you take less damage) to spam a hp pot"

So, unless we get a confirmation on how DP affects our EHP (effective HP) then there is little point in debating here. Plus, assuming that HP and DP scale the same (that is, a 10% increase in DP provides the same amount of EHP as a 10% increase in HP), then DP will ALWAYS be better (defensive wise) because it will increase the effectiveness of pots. 

I'd say the only argument in favor of 3xHeve, math wise, is the (very slightly) increased damage from HP-scaling abilities: is the (slight) damage increase better than 200 extra stamina and a knockdown resist?

Edited by hihey54

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Posted

 

I'm sorry, but wouldn't 5% extra armor be comparable to 6% HP? Saying that "higher HP means that you have extra HP to spam a hp pot" should be the same as saying "higher DP means you have extra HP (because you take less damage) to spam a hp pot"

So, unless we get a confirmation on how DP affects our EHP (effective HP) then there is little point in debating here. Plus, assuming that HP and DP scale the same (that is, a 10% increase in DP provides the same amount of EHP as a 10% increase in HP), then DP will ALWAYS be better (defensive wise) because it will increase the effectiveness of pots. 

I'd say the only argument in favor of 3xHeve, math wise, is the (very slightly) increased damage from HP-scaling abilities: is the (slight) damage increase better than 200 extra stamina and a knockdown resist?

You have to understand that the high DP "tanky" classes are tanky because of abilities, not because of the DP. They have abilities that provide them "super" armor. DP is not the same as armor, especially for a class that has no innate defensive moves. Even if you had an extra 20 DP a geared player will shred that JUST as fast. Plenty of video's showing rangers blasting 350ish DP players in a few seconds flat without them popping there armor abilities or blocking with only 220 or so AP. And I have 111 DP at +10 on all my gear right now and there are rangers with much higher DP still getting destroyed in a CC chain from geared players with around 100-110 AP. Again the DP itself is practically useless at a certain point on a class that has really no way of getting the benefit from high DP.

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Posted (edited)

You have to understand that the high DP "tanky" classes are tanky because of abilities, not because of the DP. They have abilities that provide them "super" armor. DP is not the same as armor, especially for a class that has no innate defensive moves. Even if you had an extra 20 DP a geared player will shred that JUST as fast. Plenty of video's showing rangers blasting 350ish DP players in a few seconds flat without them popping there armor abilities or blocking with only 220 or so AP. And I have 111 DP at +10 on all my gear right now and there are rangers with much higher DP still getting destroyed in a CC chain from geared players with around 100-110 AP. Again the DP itself is practically useless at a certain point on a class that has really no way of getting the benefit from high DP.

Yeah, I do agree with you on the part in which you state that "tanky" classes are ability-dependent. However, I cannot accept the fact that DP is totally useless: DP means Defense Points. In other words, DP affects how much damage you can take before you get KO-ed. Strictly speaking, increasing your DP (by a certain amount) is equal to increasing your HP (by another certain amount), in a sense that both affect how resilient you are to burst damage. 

Think of it like this: if Player A has 100 HP, and Player B has 10 HP but enough DP to reduce incoming damage by 90%. Let us assume that an attack deals 10 points in damage, thus dealing 10HP to player A and 1HP to player B: in this situation, both player A and player B will die in 10 hits of that attack, even if player A has higher HP.

The only knowledge that I lack (and, unless proven otherwise, everyone else lacks as well) is how much DP reduces incoming damage: once I have enough time to do some tests I will try to determine this by accurate tests with some guildies of mine. Until then, I still stand by my position: having 5% more DP or 6% more HP is, defensively-speaking, basically the same.

 

EDIT: it is also entirely possible that the damage reduction from DP is capped, or the stat iteself having diminishing returns after a certain amount.

Edited by hihey54

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