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Win = Lose - BDO Logic

135 posts in this topic

Posted

The standard murdering someone for quick fun, gain or because they talk too much is great, I can understand those players, hell I was PermaRed in UO... but killing someone over an infinity regenerating mob spawn because you're an entitled princess and want it all to yourself is just window-licking retarded.

It's reasons like this that I'm split between the karma system, on one hand legitimate bandits and pirates are so severely punished that it's just no longer fun or profitable which is stupid, on the other hand bag of dicks like yourself get what you deserve.

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Posted

New players these days have zero respect for farming.
If someone is there first, leave them to their grind spot or prepare to pvp.

I'm neither a new player nor millenial or whatever prejudice you people have.

Sure it sucks if you farm somewhere and some guy just comes over and steals your mobs. On the other hand, as far as I can tell so far, there are only a few good farming spots in this game and some groups/guilds basically own them and sit there 18h+ a day. I'm simply stating that I understand the next person who may only have 2h in the evening to play the game and can't wait till 3 a.m. for a free spot but also wants a piece of the cake.

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Posted

PVP with no penalties for dying (GvG) is pointless. OWPVP is the only PVP that matters in a blatant lineage II clone (literally designed by lineage II developers) like this game.

Implementing the Lineage II Karma system would be both easy and painless.

It basically only allows PvP between people who want to PvP.

Current system literally means no-one can actually kill anyone in any serious way (even between 2 consenting parties), which makes it literally more carebear than any other pvp MMO I have ever seen.

The game is designed around objective based PvP, nodes/castles. The open world PvP and Karma system is there to make the world dangerous, but isn't the focus of the game's PvP systems.

If you just want to run out into the world and randomly kill people, then you can, but you'll take a hit to your Karma. Now the Karma system may not be perfect and I expect they will keep tweaking it, but keep in mind the game is designed around the objective PvP, that is what the developers want you to do.

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Posted

They haven't implemented their new karma system yet, just hold your shit together for a couple more weeks.

Also learn to GvG instead of PKing people, a lot less of a hassle.

+1

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Posted

 

I'm neither a new player nor millenial or whatever prejudice you people have.

Sure it sucks if you farm somewhere and some guy just comes over and steals your mobs. On the other hand, as far as I can tell so far, there are only a few good farming spots in this game and some groups/guilds basically own them and sit there 18h+ a day. I'm simply stating that I understand the next person who may only have 2h in the evening to play the game and can't wait till 3 a.m. for a free spot but also wants a piece of the cake.

It was more of a general statement, but my personal prejudice on the matter really does revolve around new player sentiment. It's been a pretty common thing in MMO's to respect grind spots since the 90's, I'm a bit older so unless you were around for those days you *are* a new player to me.

Doesn't really matter how long those spots are held, they are those people's spots.

Respect it or flag up.

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Posted

WOW QQQ_Q_Q_Q_Q

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Posted

You farming Catfish for 6h, working on that 51-52 exp. Slooowly gaining a few percentages.

Random party of 5 people comes to Catfish, trying to compete with your group. Good guy Black Deserter group as you are, you kill these people. They come back, you kill them again, they come back and you kill them again. Bam, negative karma.

Now, you are at a major disadvantage since you can not even go into a city anymore and others can pretty much attack you freely. So, you'll be stuck for a few hours working on that karma while you have the entire server attack you. If you are unlucky and accidentally kill a few more, you might reach -400k karma and well, you'll spend the upcoming hours in pain with the high chance of loosing all exp you gained those 6h and the gems in your gear.

 

So, you won in open world PvP by defending your grinding spot. But in reality, BDO punished you to the hell of negative karma.

 

Win = Lose, logic of BDO at it's finest. Remove karma or heavily reduce it's game-breaking impact. :) 
@CM_Jouska

 

Edit to clear up some confusion:

You can only engage in war on 6 guilds at a time which limits you if there's 50+ guilds or something like on Jordine.
If another player is trying to PK you and you attack back and kill them, you lose 60k karma. - Source: http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/12313-cbt2-patch-notes/
This topic states a possible scenario that during pre-access alone have occured several times. - Even so, I do myself PK whenever I feel like another player is effecting my efficiency.
If you are unable to make a comment that does not have the words "carebear" "retard" "idiot" "upset" I'd like to remind you that this is the BDO forums, on a BDO related topic. It's not a kidergarden, chess extremist fanclub sites that promotes worthless posts.

 

Edit 2

I think the "remove" caused more hate than intended.

Ideally, for ME the system would heavily punish death and you'd gain  nearly nothing from killing someone. So disadvantages such as not being able to go into town and anyone being able to freely attack you anywhere if you are at negative karma really ruins it.

 

To find a balance where both PvE and PvP players would enjoy the game, what about this:

- PKing a positive karma they lose nearly nothing, maybe 0,5% - 1% exp.

- PKing a negative karma person they lose 2-3% and chance of losing a gem.

- You can go into town regardless of your karma and guards wont attack.

- Negative karma doesn't allow people to freely attack you, just makes your punishment if death harsher.

- Lose 40-50 karma on PK postivie karma player and lose 20-30 on negative karma player.

- If you defend yourself, it doesn't matter much if system is like this. Saves programming hours since "defending yourself" is a very hard thing to define and most likely even harder to program.

- Increase the amout of karma you gain by killing mobs. 20-30 per mob if you are at -400k takes forever and PvP minded people are forced to avoid all PvP except GvG for many hours. (Wpuld be different though with my suggested system)

 

So, these ideas support both PvE/PvP and Casual/Hardcore. There'd be absolutely no gain for someone to kill a PvE person and they lose nearly not on death. The PvP minded people would start to lose alot and take risks if they engage in alot of PvP but still be able to "pay for their sins" if they decide to take few days off PvP. It would turn the open world PvP into something fun and engaging yet not hurt the PvE players.

 

I bet you're one of these assholes who gank 1 person with 5 people then when you die to 5 people you say dumb shit like "Need 5 people to kill me Don't you" System is inplace to stop -----es like you from forcing people out of leveling. 

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Posted (edited)

The game is designed around objective based PvP, nodes/castles. The open world PvP and Karma system is there to make the world dangerous, but isn't the focus of the game's PvP systems.

If you just want to run out into the world and randomly kill people, then you can, but you'll take a hit to your Karma. Now the Karma system may not be perfect and I expect they will keep tweaking it, but keep in mind the game is designed around the objective PvP, that is what the developers want you to do.

Nowhere in my post did I denigrate objective based PvP, nodes/castles. I was denigrating GvG, which is 100% pointless in every way, shape, and form.

 

OWPVP is built into the DNA of the game.

It's a 100% Lineage II clone built by literally Lineage II devs.

 

That's why grinding matters, and that grinding ain't instanced.

 

People are SUPPOSED to be fighting over scarce resources. That's the most organic reason for conflict in a Lineage II clone.

 

EDIT:

I hope you guys also realize that the current karma system DOES NOTHING about PKers.

It literally only punishes PVPers.

So by your logic the dev's are explicitly promoting PKing over PVP.

Edited by Communism

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Posted

Nowhere in my post did I denigrate objective based PvP, nodes/castles. I was denigrating GvG, which is 100% pointless in every way, shape, and form.

 

OWPVP is built into the DNA of the game.

It's a 100% Lineage II clone built by literally Lineage II devs.

 

That's why grinding matters, and that grinding ain't instanced.

 

People are SUPPOSED to be fighting over scarce resources. That's the most organic reason for conflict in a Lineage II clone.

Well said, very well said. Majority of the people replying here seems to be the people below level 45 who really hasn't felt PvP yet.

 

I bet you're one of these assholes who gank 1 person with 5 people then when you die to 5 people you say dumb shit like "Need 5 people to kill me Don't you" System is inplace to stop -----es like you from forcing people out of leveling. 

I do not at all see how this matters but I will reply anyway and tell you what kind of player I am. I'm the kind of person who attacks anyone on sight, try to avoid killing them to make them understand it's time for them to leave. If they don't/attack back, they are dead. And no, this is a completely wrong "bet" of yours that once again proves how worthless your comment is. In GvG, we generally always fight outnumbered and win. Same for PKing as long as we can try to avoid negative karma. Fun story: Yesterday I had 5people following me for well over 10min trying to kill me. Eventually I just started running in a circle while my buddies was laughing until I died from a stun + grab. Later on, we had 2 people trying to kill me while we were gonna do a boss scroll. Buddies of mine were giving them tips how to kill me cuz they were using bad abilities etc. So not all douchebags, just PKing people that are preventing/in the way of me and my buddies progression. Haven't done a single PK, on anyone other than people trying to steal a grind spot and I think this is common amongst most PKers. So carebears, farmers, fishermen etc shouldn't have anything to worry about really.

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Posted (edited)

Well said, very well said. Majority of the people replying here seems to be the people below level 45 who really hasn't felt PvP yet.

 

I do not at all see how this matters but I will reply anyway and tell you what kind of player I am. I'm the kind of person who attacks anyone on sight, try to avoid killing them to make them understand it's time for them to leave. If they don't/attack back, they are dead. And no, this is a completely wrong "bet" of yours that once again proves how worthless your comment is. In GvG, we generally always fight outnumbered and win. Same for PKing as long as we can try to avoid negative karma. Fun story: Yesterday I had 5people following me for well over 10min trying to kill me. Eventually I just started running in a circle while my buddies was laughing until I died from a stun + grab. Later on, we had 2 people trying to kill me while we were gonna do a boss scroll. Buddies of mine were giving them tips how to kill me cuz they were using bad abilities etc. So not all douchebags, just PKing people that are preventing/in the way of me and my buddies progression. Haven't done a single PK, on anyone other than people trying to steal a grind spot and I think this is common amongst most PKers. So carebears, farmers, fishermen etc shouldn't have anything to worry about really.

You are describing PVP instead of PK.

I'm using the Lineage II definition of PVP and PK.

In Lineage II, how it worked was that killing anyone that wasn't flagged was automatically a PK, with far, far, far worse penalties than in this game (Most of them would make you ragequit the game if you did it alot).

 

However, if you attack someone and they attack back, or if someone attacks you and you attack back, it's totally open game, as consent for pvp was implied by aggressive action.

In this way, carebears and pvpers both got what they wanted.

In the current karma system, PKing (And all kinds of griefing, because of the terrible system) is heavily promoted, while PVP is basically completely impossible.

Edited by Communism

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