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MY BEST SOLUTION TO CURRENT PVE DIFFICULTY


27 posts in this topic

Posted

I noticed that while playing other versions of the game, that the main concern which made PVE so easy were because of (2) factors. Aside from their AI's which I know cannot be changed, is that Enemies attacks are too slow especially compared to how fast your character moves(This is especially noticeable with Ranged classes). The other reason is the Health Potion.

Would BDO NA be able to change the attack speed of mobs to make them more in par with the player speed? Also, mobs seem to walk to the player once they are within range! One last thing I noticed was that mobs run at you, stop, then attack. Is it possible to implement their attacks as one fluid motion, with the rush straight into the attack?

The health potions is a huge problem with BDO. NPCs give out too many to players leaving players with over 100 potions! and the potions have a very low cool down making it far too spammable (NPC should only give players 1 potion per quest). This makes people cut through the game solo, because death is rarely a concern when you can keep spamming a potion. I know that CBT1 the cool down has been revamped from 3 to 5, however I feel like this will not change the spam issue much. I really don't see how 2 seconds can change that much, as I noticed with the Russian version. 

I feel like Potion should be less of a crutch for the player to lean on. In my opinion, the best way to deal with health potions aside from the cool down would be to have it increase your health slowly instead of instantly. This way it will force you to keep avoiding mobs (or other players in PVP) as it replenishes your health, making you become more careful during a fight. Potions should not be accessible until the full +X heal has been applied.

Let me know your thoughts.

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Posted

 

1) Yes, they can change the enemies attack speed, attack damage, range of hostility and hp.
2) Run, stop, attack -> No, I think it's the same story as what they tell us with the AI. 
3) Pots are there for a certain lvl(Ex: 1-20) after these levels the pots become useless - that lowers the problem from 'too many pots from npcs' - They indeed have changed to CD to 5, BUT, you can use both a HP and an MP pot at the same time, they have seperate cooldowns, this should be 1 general cooldown - imo.

4) As far as PVE goes, you don't have to lean on pots too much. This will surely increase in NA/EU.
About PvP and pots - I can only encourage it, fights will last longer and you'll need to be more strategic on bursting someone down.

5) Nice idea about slowly increasing HP. A former 'pot' game had the following.

     - Note: Average HP point was around 7-10K(on higher lvls). There were two healing systems besides the healer:

     - HP meds(300 and 500 increase, instantly)
     - Food(Up to 2500 in 30 seconds), requires you to sit and not participate in any form of activity besides eating.
     - This system was there for both HP & MP 

The HP meds weren't that expensive, MP was. So a good way to fill these up was with these foods while you were out of battle - else it would cost you alot, plus it would take longer to fill up the same amount. 

What I think to increase the PvE experience is (in what they can change): 

1) Increase the aggro range
2) Increase attack speed by atleast 1.5x
3) Increase attack damage - this definitely is a point to be made. You can stand a minute or two before dieing(some mobs ofcourse, not all). 
4) Keep the HP the same / slightly higher - now its a few hits and they're down... 

About end-game PvE I'd say have a wait, since they are doing their best to get them more fluid and more dynamic in the recent updates. That I heard atleast. 

- Jeasy

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Posted

You make a great point on your final notes. I completely agree and i hope they will alter these changes to bennefit our overall pve gameplay. Basically i want something more to enjoy other then PVP and farming until more content is released.

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Posted

I'd love potions to restore gradually.

Even more if there were variations that work slower and aren't canceled when hp/mp are full.

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Posted

I'd honestly rather keep most mobs similar to the way they are now, maybe with their difficulty increased a little bit. I don't feel increasing their difficulty would bring much to the game.

However I think more difficult PvE content is also necessary, all PvE content doesn't need to all that difficult though. They just need to add more difficult stuff in the game not increase the difficulty of current content. Difficult world bosses would be a great way to do this, as with dungeons with more difficult mobs(not the kind that just has higher Evasion or something so you miss all the time, faster and hit harder). There really just needs to be more variety in difficulty. No one would be complaining about grinding mobs being difficult if there was more difficult PvE content outside of that.

 

A better solution to making PvP fights last longer is to reduce the damage skills do in PvP rather than keep pots involved. Spamming pots in PvP just seems silly when they can scale the damage down some.

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Posted

The most important thing that they could change is AI of mobs but I don't think they can do it.

Lets remember that most mobs are meat for players who do quests If I have to kill 100 hard mobs for quest I would vomit blood each time when I want to get some contribution points :) but changing elite mobs that should require more skill and make useless hit and run strategy (most party class mobs on lower level can be killed by it) would make players that look for something harder happy. Instance based dungeon/raids and world bosses should be the thing that should be the thing for players that looks for challenge.

As for speeding up mobs attack well I had situations that I was hit by mob but from my perspective I should dodge it. If someone will have lag spikes they will be in even bigger disadvantage. Agro range yes it should bigger or it implement some kind of searcher AI for pack monster for example one monster have higher range of agro but is it me or they could utilize more that weird crawling and squatting system :)

For potions they are more designed for clutch fights they should save you when you are in pinch spot. So I'm for twitching them a bit maybe make them heal more but by span of time and give them longer cool-down etc. Healing is big part of fighting so it's very hard to balance it only by PvE aspect it require very broad perspective.

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Posted

With enough time and resources, the mob AI could be changed into something far more challenging.  However, I would hope to see this change applied to world bosses, summoned bosses and mini bosses (I think these are the ones labelled <Violent>).  Generic mobs are more like a means to an end instead of posing any serious challenge on their own.  That doesn't mean the generic mob difficulty is appropriate.  It may need to be increased through one or more of your suggested changes or others to make the game more fun.

Another point to consider is that mobs already have some advantages over the player.  They are usually more numerous, can spawn in unexpectedly and sneak attack or CC you, have varying health pools and resistances, groups can have mixes of melee and ranged attackers and single hits can take out significant chunk of HP.  One hit that takes out 40% HP won't be instantly recovered by one potion.

I used very few potions in CBT1 and ended up selling many to vendors since they were too heavy.  I didn't do this due to lack of difficulty.  I spent most of my time weaving in and out of close and mid-ranged combat and keeping an eye on my back.  Sloppy game play will get you killed in PvE.

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Posted

I noticed that while playing other versions of the game, that the main concern which made PVE so easy were because of (2) factors. Aside from their AI's which I know cannot be changed, is that Enemies attacks are too slow especially compared to how fast your character moves(This is especially noticeable with Ranged classes). The other reason is the Health Potion.

Would BDO NA be able to change the attack speed of mobs to make them more in par with the player speed? Also, mobs seem to walk to the player once they are within range! One last thing I noticed was that mobs run at you, stop, then attack. Is it possible to implement their attacks as one fluid motion, with the rush straight into the attack?

The health potions is a huge problem with BDO. NPCs give out too many to players leaving players with over 100 potions! and the potions have a very low cool down making it far too spammable (NPC should only give players 1 potion per quest). This makes people cut through the game solo, because death is rarely a concern when you can keep spamming a potion. I know that CBT1 the cool down has been revamped from 3 to 5, however I feel like this will not change the spam issue much. I really don't see how 2 seconds can change that much, as I noticed with the Russian version. 

I feel like Potion should be less of a crutch for the player to lean on. In my opinion, the best way to deal with health potions aside from the cool down would be to have it increase your health slowly instead of instantly. This way it will force you to keep avoiding mobs (or other players in PVP) as it replenishes your health, making you become more careful during a fight. Potions should not be accessible until the full +X heal has been applied.

Let me know your thoughts.

To be honest I was taking my time lvling in CBT-1. Due to this I only made to about lvl 25. I thought the slow mob were due to the learning curve, If they are this slow at attacking through the remaining game then yea, I agree with you 100%. There should be some fast hitting, moderate dmg but low health mob and there also should be some slow hitting, high dmg but tanky mob and other variants in between. There should be a choice of natural selection on which mob you are going to down first due to how much it is going to F-up your fight. If mostly everything can be dodged then yea this has gotta change.

As for the health potion thing, I know they are currently messing with the CD timers on these to more balance pvp. I have seen this work well in other games as you have said but with a minor change. It is more or less a hybrid of the two system. It is not a full refill but it also is not a full passive refill.

Currently the system is a health pot will give you (example) 1,200 HP with a 5 second CD.

Passive regen system: Health pot will regen 2,000 HP over 5 seconds, 5 second CD. The increase to health is the pay off for the wait. 

Hybrid system: Health pot will "give" you 1,000 HP, then regen you for another 1000 HP over 10 seconds. 5 second CD. Refresh will overwrite previous pot regen. (No double dipping)

The hybrid system allow you to get the chunk you need in a crunch with the passive that drip in as you fight. You have the option to drop another pot after 5 seconds for the chunk again but the down side is you will loose out on the remaining 5 second regen from the first pot. My numbers above might be off but it is more or paper theory.     

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Posted

i thought this is a grind game and normal mobs got to be kinda easy. if u change normal mobs to be 'challanging' then they also got to give u loot and exp depending on the extra time u might spent to kill X amount of said mob.

tho thats basically the problem u will get used to every added 'challange' and the only thing that will remain of it after a while will be the extra time to kill a certain amount but still wont be hard once u get used to it. i personally do find 'challanging' mechanics once i get used to em pretty annoying if i feel the need to repeat them quite often. therefor im not for changing normal mobs.

they could tho improve the 'boss' ai or attackspeed/dmg/hp/def what ever values. 

 

The health potions is a huge problem with BDO. NPCs give out too many to players leaving players with over 100 potions! and the potions have a very low cool down making it far too spammable (NPC should only give players 1 potion per quest).

i use alot more mp pots then hp ones..

& u can also buy pots from npc so even if they reduce the amount u get from quests u can just buy them  :) 

This makes people cut through the game solo, because death is rarely a concern when you can keep spamming a potion.

imo if ur not hitting ur keyboard with ur nose, then u shouldnt die in pve in any game - maybe if it is declared as group content. but alot u will be doing in BDO is grinding and i personally dont want this to require a group. group exp should be improved tho that groupin up is not slowing u down , shouldnt speed u up either tho.

 

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Posted (edited)

As for mob difficulty, a viable option would be to change some mobs instead of all. From a developer standpoint, if all the mobs are too challenging, it alienates anyone without the capable skill; if all mobs are too easy, it becomes boring for those who are capable and beyond. A possible scenario would be to have some mobs (think BAMS from TERA) that have faster animations and/or hit harder (are more punishing) yet reward more experience, while also having mobs that are easier. Basically, a sliding risk vs. reward scenario that provides options for a wide variety of capability, without alienating any specific side. If you aren't that great, you can kill the easier mobs; if you kick ass, you can kill the harder mobs for more reward. Of course, the drawback is that the less-capable players are likely to argue against this if the benefit of "being good" is too much (as in, the difference between killing easy mobs and hard mobs is night and day in terms of rewards), though that is simply balancing.

 

For potions, an easy fix would be, as prior suggested, restoration over time instead of instantly. The developers could easily keep the CD at 5s if pots provided their benefit over 10-20s (and didn't stack), as spamming would do nothing. On that note, it could be made so that being directly hit while such a pot-restoration-effect was on could remove it (or other "dispel" mechanics") so that the result would be using more pots, but the benefit is still the same.

Edited by Mizugami
Added potion paragraph.

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Posted (edited)

go attempt hekse marie solo as fresh 50 with hebe/neil tier stuff, under 70 AP/DP and only 300ish SP of skills and tell me pve is too easy. Other than that some pre-50 bosses actually have pretty good mechanics in addition to damage but it would spoil the story for non-KR 50s

Also, 10pm bandits at lv30 is no joke; one second body blocked = izi instagib

Edited by Walpurga

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Posted

I thought the mobs were fine mostly. The aspect of gathering a large amount and then nuking them was gratifying.

 

I would ask, what level have you achieved? If you have only experience the lower levels and you're posting this then I'd say WTF. If you haven't leveled to at least near fifty then you don't have enough information for a post like this. Remember, the 1-30 in KR was built to last 6-8 hours, then 30-50 another 10. Mobs do hit harder at later levels.

 

Also, you know that saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"? Well, Daum tried to "fix" it for NA/EU, and guess what? It didn't work out so well. 

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Posted

...The health potions is a huge problem with BDO. NPCs give out too many to players leaving players with over 100 potions! and the potions have a very low cool down making it far too spammable (NPC should only give players 1 potion per quest). This makes people cut through the game solo, because death is rarely a concern when you can keep spamming a potion. I know that CBT1 the cool down has been revamped from 3 to 5, however I feel like this will not change the spam issue much. I really don't see how 2 seconds can change that much, as I noticed with the Russian version. 

I feel like Potion should be less of a crutch for the player to lean on. In my opinion, the best way to deal with health potions aside from the cool down would be to have it increase your health slowly instead of instantly. This way it will force you to keep avoiding mobs (or other players in PVP) as it replenishes your health, making you become more careful during a fight. Potions should not be accessible until the full +X heal has been applied.

Let me know your thoughts.

I liked spamming potions in the KR one, made grinding levels easier. Not that it isn't broken lol.

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Posted

Let there be estus flasks !! YAY

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Posted

Honestly...mobs are just there for your xp gain...they get harder in media...but the grind will last forever...they are they to pull into groups and level 

this

 

 

As far as the pots, once you've enchanted in about the +10 range, the pot spamming doesn't really matter anymore. If you catch someone, or you get caught, and it's an equal playing field, you're a goner.

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Posted (edited)

Mobs are just there as resources (XP, silver, blackstones, or whatever that can be turned into those). Fighting for those resources with other players is where the fun should come from - not from farming the resource itself.

Just keep making threads like these and you will get mobs that are HP sponges eventually, ruining grinding for everyone. (generally devs around the globe really like making HP sponges, as it slows down level progression. This is the easiest way of trolling players with making them spend more time for the same reward)

When you play long enough to reach rly high levels, mobs useful for grinding the next level will be difficult enough without any special mechanics. This, however, will come only in the upcoming updates for EU/NA (already active in KR).

Edited by FUshin
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Posted

Cant wait to see their faces when then need to grind 20 hours to see 1% of their exp bar move and then die and lose a fcton of exp and need to grind all that exp back :D 

Just face it people this will not ever become harder and if they did make mobs harder and harder its time to move away from this mmo and let it die.

 

Everything is connected to pvp and here is where the main challenge lies, not in grinding, not in bosses, not in dungeons but you and me staring each other in the eyes filled with hate ready to unleash all skills you have untill one of us drops dead on the ground.

 

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Posted

fyi you can trade in those 200 starter potions for a better variant in Hiedel. i believe it's 5 starter for 1 mid so when you got 200 of the damn things yah trade them. lol

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Posted

currently, the difficulty of mob AI is similar to this experiment with a rat. he rat moves from one end to the other and receives a small jolt in between getting the cheese and his current position. No skill or challenge involved at all. For anyone who says grinding mobs should be this ridiculously mindless, you may as well ask for a lever to be placed in town which you can click on repeatedly and every several clicks you would get experience and loot. There really would be little difference between doing that and current battles against standard mobs.

6a0120a85dcdae970b012877602560970c-pi.pn

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Posted

Trash mobs are trash mobs. Don't need changing.

What needs changing are the world bosses and maybe the summon scrolls.

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Posted

My suggestion

Don't need strong AI, no need change> Mobs have advantage in numbers. Same mobs keep revived and revived and .... Mobs cant be killed. They keep swarm you till u have meaningless exp with same mobs you killed again and again and again. Spam as much hp or mp pots you want, that was Mob secondary objective. Main Mob objective is to preoccupy your quality time/life  with thousands of the easy undead mobs. Mobs eventually reached their own quests to tie the players if mobs keep mindlessly run to you like hungry rodent.  

Mobs dont have to kill you. Some jelly farmer will come and PK/gang bang you till you wont be able to come again for same mobs. Yah, The elite selfie PVP player will do favor for the mobs. Trash Mobs happy if player killed each other. 

In summary, think of the mobs objective and psychology effect, not what majority think mobs as hungry rodent. @@ . no matter how many millions you whack, Ai mobs win when you are addicted to weak rodent. Regret to uncover the truth and I hope it wont disturb your normal perception of weak mob.

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Posted (edited)

Would love to hear from someone on KR how "easy" 56+ is and then let them know that leveling speed is slower in NA/EU is greater and pots are slower cool down.

Want more challenge?

Fight without good gear.

Fight purples.

Fight a lot of purples.

Don't use pots or any aid at all.

After playing KR, not excited for it being slower in NA.

Edited by APE
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Posted

Would love to hear from someone on KR how "easy" 56+ is and then let them know that leveling speed in NA/EU is greater and pots are slower cool down.

Want more challenge?

Fight without good gear.

Fight purples.

Fight a lot of purples.

Don't use pots or any aid at all.

After playing KR, not excited for it being slower in NA.

Ya sounds like me. I done that greedily with Agerian Gear +8 (poor and stingy player spotted ), I thought the mob is easy mode with different in color name. I finished spam my pots after every damage. No guild and no party to help in Korea. Im a foreigner. Purple gives so much experience during 1-50. Lots of purple mob in desert called valencia , somewhere. I cant keep track of my level. I almost feel deja vu each time i look at my experiences when i keep grinding and dying. For one month, (i play at night ), im still at lv 54. Purple is strooonggggg

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Ya sounds like me. I done that greedily with Agerian Gear +8 (poor and stingy player spotted ), I thought the mob is easy mode with different in color name. I finished spam my pots after every damage. No guild and no party to help in Korea. Im a foreigner. Purple gives so much experience during 1-50. Lots of purple mob in desert called valencia , somewhere. I cant keep track of my level. I almost feel deja vu each time i look at my experiences when i keep grinding and dying. For one month, (i play at night ), im still at lv 54. Purple is strooonggggg

Too obvious, whomever this is :ph34r:

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Posted

you can use both a HP and an MP pot at the same time, they have seperate cooldowns, this should be 1 general cooldown - imo.

do u remember how much mp u need to use skills to kill boss for exmpl? if it will be same cd how are u going to kill it? autoattack?

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