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The guild system is underwhelming at best

35 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Let's ignore the following facts first:

- The saying of the day is broken

- The font is far too small

- The text on several buttons (for example, the register buttons for the description & the notice) spill over the buttons, probably a remnant from the Korean version

- The member rank is called "General". Why? How does this make sense? What kind of hierarchy is "General < Officer < Master"?

- The guild quests are often glitched and don't show up in the members' quest logs

- There are no tool-tips whatsoever to explain how things work. What is guild morale? What specifically increases guild points? Who knows, because the game doesn't tell you.

 

Now then, assuming those bugs are fixed, we're still missing key features. Firstly, why do we have no control over ranks. None at all. We can't name ranks, we can't add ranks, we can't edit rank permissions. This is absolutely silly. What if we want a co-GM? What if we want officers to have different permissions based on their role? Secondly, the guild history tab is frankly useless. Great, it shows who joined and left. How about it shows quests we've accomplished? Rare achievements members got? Something that makes it worth actually looking at. Thirdly, the notice is insufficient. Even if you could type longer messages, it requires members to check the guild menu. Reminding dozens of members to do so is a pain. How about adding a daily announcement pop-up when you login? Fourthly, the guild member recruitment tab is pointless (partially because nobody bothers putting introductions on their profiles). Guilds shouldn't be searching for members, people should be searching for guilds. Remove this page entirely, take the guild description, and add a menu for players to browse. Once they find a guild they like, they can submit an application for a contract with a short blob of text attached.

 

Now for something a little more controversial. I don't think that 100 members as a hard cap accomplishes anything at all. You may argue that a hard cap is necessary to prevent one guild from over-running the server. I don't agree with this for two reasons. Firstly, we've seen other games with virtually limitless guild member caps (for example, EVE) that show that even if a guild took over, they would collapse because there's no realistic way to keep everyone unified for long. Secondly, the hard cap in BDO doesn't actually prevent someone from controlling the server. You need look no further than the swarm of streamers who inhabit Croxus, EU. They've got multiple full guilds that they control. A hard cap does nothing except force a large guild to split into several guilds, making management slightly trickier, but easily doable if you're set on conquering the server. So my proposal is this: Remove the hard cap entirely. Keep a soft cap, maybe even at 100. Then you just add progressively higher taxes, or perhaps you allow smaller guilds to form temporary coalitions against aggressive larger guilds. 

 

I will, however, fully admit there is a solid foundation in what you've put out so far with regards to guilds, PA/Daum. The contract system is interesting. Being able to track your members' activity is cool (although, again, it lacks a tooltip, I'd like to see how they're contributing). The idea of working together (eventually) to take over castles or nodes sounds exciting. Being able to invest in guild skills gives you something to work forward to (although there aren't that many skills and I'd like to see more, cheaper ones with utility upgrades rather than flat statistical passive upgrades). It's just everything around this solid foundation that makes me annoyed at best when I'm trying to manage dozens of people at once. 


That's all I've got for the moment. Apologies in advance if this is incoherent or unrealistic, I'm just slightly underwhelmed after being GM for nearly a week now of a fairly large guild. 

Edited by Travisk
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Posted

Imho the real problem is the cap for the guild member. It is no possible limit the number of a group of people in a role play game. There is 2 way, or make the cap higher like 200,or make a sort of alliance system between various guild so we can take 2 different guild under the same flag. I say that cause we have capped the member  with my guild, now we have problem with other people that wonna enter, so we have created a secondary one. The problem is that there is no way for them to split the rewards  when we ll take some nodes with the principal one @@.  Come on Dev! Remove this fk cap! 

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Posted (edited)

Imho the real problem is the cap for the guild member. It is no possible limit the number of a group of people in a role play game. There is 2 way, or make the cap higher like 200,or make a sort of alliance system between various guild so we can take 2 different guild under the same flag. I say that cause we have capped the member  with my guild, now we have problem with other people that wonna enter, so we have created a secondary one. The problem is that there is no way for them to split the rewards  when we ll take some nodes with the principal one @@.  Come on Dev! Remove this fk cap! 

Fully agreed. Even if the hard cap remains (and I would argue it shouldn't, as it serves no purpose in preventing giant guilds from blobbing), 100 is low by nearly every MMO's standards. 

 

Edited by Travisk

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Posted (edited)

Let's ignore the following facts first:

- The saying of the day is broken

- The font is far too small

- The text on several buttons (for example, the register buttons for the description & the notice) spill over the buttons, probably a remnant from the Korean version

- The member rank is called "General". Why? How does this make sense? What kind of hierarchy is "General < Officer < Master"?

- The guild quests are often glitched and don't show up in the members' quest logs

- There are no tool-tips whatsoever to explain how things work. What is guild morale? What specifically increases guild points? Who knows, because the game doesn't tell you.

 

Now then, assuming those bugs are fixed, we're still missing key features. Firstly, why do we have no control over ranks. None at all. We can't name ranks, we can't add ranks, we can't edit rank permissions. This is absolutely silly. What if we want a co-GM? What if we want officers to have different permissions based on their role? Secondly, the guild history tab is frankly useless. Great, it shows who joined and left. How about it shows quests we've accomplished? Rare achievements members got? Something that makes it worth actually looking at. Thirdly, the notice is insufficient. Even if you could type longer messages, it requires members to check the guild menu. Reminding dozens of members to do so is a pain. How about adding a daily announcement pop-up when you login? Fourthly, the guild member recruitment tab is pointless. Guilds shouldn't be searching for members, people should be searching for guilds. Remove this page entirely, take the guild description, and add a menu for players to browse. Once they find a guild they like, they can submit an application for a contract with a short blob of text attached.

 

Now for something a little more controversial. I don't think that 100 members as a hard cap accomplishes anything at all. You may argue that a hard cap is necessary to prevent one guild from over-running the server. I don't agree with this for two reasons. Firstly, we've seen other games with virtually limitless guild member caps (for example, EVE) that show that even if a guild took over, they would collapse because there's no realistic way to keep everyone unified for long. Secondly, the hard cap in BDO doesn't actually prevent someone from controlling the server. You need look no further than the swarm of streamers who inhabit Croxus, EU. They've got multiple full guilds that they control. A hard cap does nothing except force a large guild to split into several guilds, making management slightly trickier, but easily doable if you're set on conquering the server. So my proposal is this: Remove the hard cap entirely. Keep a soft cap, maybe even at 100. Then you just add progressively higher taxes, or perhaps you allow smaller guilds to form temporary coalitions against aggressive larger guilds. 

That's all I've got for the moment. Apologies in advance if this is incoherent or unrealistic, I'm just slightly underwhelmed after being GM for nearly a week now of a fairly large guild. 

This was blatantly clear after the first day of guildship. The guild system will probably start shining when a guild participates in wars but outside of that,...yeah not much other than gathering speed runs which are becoming less and less enjoyable seeing as they are completely RNG. Yay! So we have to go race a timer to gather materials that we, as a guild, don't necessarily need....? I think the guild leader should be able to determine what we need (or what they need) and allow the choice to be determined democratically if they're a good guild leader. I have so many ideas for this but that's getting off topic.

To be fair the 'General' rank probably is not referencing any military rank even though they have 'Officer'...but then again the military rank falls on its face again with 'Master'. Even Anarchy On-freaking-line had a more advanced 'guild' system and that game is butt-old!

RankDepartmentRepublicFactionFeudalismMonarchyAnarchism
0PresidentPresidentDirectorLordMonarchAnarchist
1GeneralAdvisorBoard MemberKnightCounsel-
2Squad CommanderVeteranExecutiveVassalFollower-
3Unit CommanderMemberMemberPeasant--
4Unit LeaderApplicantApplicant---
5Unit Member-----
6Applicant-----

You would pick out your organization type listed across the top of the chart. Each type had it's own unique characteristics and how it interacted between its members and how its members interacted within the organization. It was HELLA brilliant and I would expect a AAA game to give something a bit more especially since this is not 2002.

Edited by Lostarot
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Posted

So we have to go race a timer to gather materials that we, as a guild, don't necessarily need....? I think the guild leader should be able to determine what we need (or what they need) and allow the choice to be determined democratically if they're a good guild leader. I have so many ideas for this but that's getting off topic.

I didn't want to touch on this because I felt it would make the rant far too long (and I doubt PA would put up with all of my complaints, if any), but now that you've mentioned it, I might as well. The gathering quests are enjoyable in the sense that we have guild members working together, but they're also completely arbitrary. Great, we got hundreds of timber. And that timber proceeds to vanish into thin air from the perspective of the guild. Here's what I want:

Add something for guilds to work towards as gatherers or crafters. Let us build huge boats, or caravans, or literally anything that's grand in scale. Taking your entire guild on a fishing boat, or example, just feels silly. I'd love to see a month-long investment from dozens of members working towards building a huge transport ship with rooms you can customise and a hull you can repair with resources gathered from missions. Let us wave our emblem on flags with an increased image size as we sail the oceans. Make guilds feel truly epic in nature.

 

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Posted

Fully agree. I hope guild updates come soon. 

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Posted

Fully agree. I hope guild updates come soon. 

Ideally I'd like to see some of these changes before GvG comes out in a month, but any time over the next year would be a huge help.

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Posted

I believe the current guild system, along with other minor details, definitely needs attention. I will not be joining a guild, however, the current system is unnecessarily limited. I truly hope they have plans to revamp or at least update it. It irks me that there are merely three - afaik - titles, which aren't quite fitting towards the Western communities, and obviously the other aspects you have listed also bother me enough to point it out.

I couldn't have said this better myself, so +1 to you!

As more people play around with guilds and experience them hands-on, I'm sure more suggestions in this forum will surface, surely drawing the attention of Daum and Pearl Abyss.

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Posted

Guilds shouldn't be searching for members, people should be searching for guilds

@Travisk 

Employers advertise to recruit employees, it's no different with guilds. the responsability of recruitment falls on both the employer and employee.

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Posted

I believe the current guild system, along with other minor details, definitely needs attention. I will not be joining a guild, however, the current system is unnecessarily limited. I truly hope they have plans to revamp or at least update it. It irks me that there are merely three - afaik - titles, which aren't quite fitting towards the Western communities, and obviously the other aspects you have listed also bother me enough to point it out.

I couldn't have said this better myself, so +1 to you!

As more people play around with guilds and experience them hands-on, I'm sure more suggestions in this forum will surface, surely drawing the attention of Daum and Pearl Abyss.

Thank you. I, too, hope that Daum and PA pay attention. If not to me, then to others.

@Travisk 

Employers advertise to recruit employees, it's no different with guilds. the responsability of recruitment falls on both the employer and employee.

I don't think drawing a comparison between guilds and employment is fair at all.

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Posted

honestly 100 member cap I agree with. sorry but I do.  unlimited cap means u could eventually own an entire server.  with a cap it reduces this and leaves it to picking an area.

secondly my only real complaint is the fact that there is litereally 0 Information about a mission when u pick it. 

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Posted (edited)

honestly 100 member cap I agree with. sorry but I do.  unlimited cap means u could eventually own an entire server.  with a cap it reduces this and leaves it to picking an area.

secondly my only real complaint is the fact that there is litereally 0 Information about a mission when u pick it. 

I explain why the argument that you could own an entire server isn't valid. You can already do that through multiple guilds, as streamers have shown us on Croxus EU.

Edited by Travisk

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Posted (edited)

yea sure ya can if ur guild wants to buy multipul accounts lol n if u wanna go there be my guest.
this just makes it more annoying and less likely to happen.

 

on a side note can we just see family names in guild chat learning who is which alt is annoying...

 

Edited by Bloodwynd

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Posted

yea sure ya can if ur guild wants to buy multipul accounts lol n if u wanna go there be my guest.
this just makes it more annoying and less likely to happen.

 

on a side note can we just see family names in guild chat learning who is which alt is annoying...

 

It's obviously not making it annoying enough if we already have Croxus full of guilds controlled by a handful of streamers. The current system does not work. If anything, the fact that a guild can control only a castle or a node should make the idea of one giant guild better than several smaller guilds that can take over much more territory. 

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Posted (edited)

Fun fact: Just promoted some officers. There's no officer chat. Another key feature we're missing.

Edited by Travisk

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Posted

i believe "general" is just a poor translation of "regular"  not the military rank.

 

but yeah. it needs to be changed.

the game is filled with poor translations

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Posted

i believe "general" is just a poor translation of "regular"  not the military rank.

 

but yeah. it needs to be changed.

the game is filled with poor translations

I assumed that's the case. Perhaps by "general" they meant something along the lines of "the general population", but the fact that it hasn't been fixed yet is hilarious. This isn't some obscure quest in the middle of nowhere. We're talking about the most common rank for every guild (because, again, we can't rename anything).

@CM_Jouska any word from PA about guild improvements for the West?

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Posted

Now that the Q&A is over, I'm going to bump this after hearing no word from Daum about the guild system. 

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@CM_Jouska any chance I can get a reply on this/the guild system in general? Sorry to be a nag, but this is a pretty big part of the game as a GM.

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Posted

Adding to my report :)

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Guild Alliance system is highly needed too, along with an alliance chat.

Also... more ranks or custom permission system please. :(

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Posted (edited)

@CM_Jouska Any chance of getting min member needed online to start guild mission to 1 or 2?

Edited by Te'Ryn Tec

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Adding to my report :)

Oh thank god. Sorry to have had to nag you this much.

 

Guild Alliance system is highly needed too, along with an alliance chat.

Also... more ranks or custom permission system please. :(

An alliance system would be interesting, but you'd have to fix the hard cap on member limits first. 

@CM_Jouska Any chance of getting min member needed online to start guild mission to 1 or 2?

Can you rephrase this? I'm not sure what this means.

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Posted

There are exactly 3 features I have been missing so far personally:

  • Click on guild mate to whisper to him (currently I have to copy it by typing the char name displayed)
  • Seeing some char information of logged out members to better track their progress
    Especially with the limited guild member slots you want to track, if they manage the goal of becoming level 10 within 1 week for example.
  • An alliance system that allows small guilds to be either a sub group in a larger guild (parent -> child hierachie) or a collection of multiple guilds under one hood so at least you have a common alliance chat and do not accidentally attack them when they flag for PvP. Especially with the ghillie suit you could not even avoid attacking them, even if you tried to look at their guild logo. Same problem would be in siege wars. I can understand that "defending team player numbers" are supposed to be balanced, but since attacker and defender both could alliance together, in the big number it would only scale the involved total numbers (which would only be limited by fps on server and client). We are currently running into a situation we feel that we'd require a larger guild, but we are hesitating to give up our "identity" just for sake of numbers for end game content.

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Posted

There are exactly 3 features I have been missing so far personally:

  • Click on guild mate to whisper to him (currently I have to copy it by typing the char name displayed)
  • Seeing some char information of logged out members to better track their progress
    Especially with the limited guild member slots you want to track, if they manage the goal of becoming level 10 within 1 week for example.
  • An alliance system that allows small guilds to be either a sub group in a larger guild (parent -> child hierachie) or a collection of multiple guilds under one hood so at least you have a common alliance chat and do not accidentally attack them when they flag for PvP. Especially with the ghillie suit you could not even avoid attacking them, even if you tried to look at their guild logo. Same problem would be in siege wars. I can understand that "defending team player numbers" are supposed to be balanced, but since attacker and defender both could alliance together, in the big number it would only scale the involved total numbers (which would only be limited by fps on server and client). We are currently running into a situation we feel that we'd require a larger guild, but we are hesitating to give up our "identity" just for sake of numbers for end game content.

I can't believe I forgot those first two ideas. Thank you, I agree.

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