• Announcements

    • IMPORTANT - REACH US IN THE NEW FORUM   05/04/2017

      Ladies and gentlemen ATTENTION please:
      It's time to move into a new house!
        As previously announced, from now on IT WON'T BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE THREADS OR REPLY in the old forums. From now on the old forums will be readable only. If you need to move/copy/migrate any post/material from here, feel free to contact the staff in the new home. We’ll be waiting for you in the NEW Forums!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php

      *New features and amazing tools are waiting for you, even more is yet to come in the future.. just like world exploration in BDO leads to new possibilities.
      So don't be afraid about changes, click the link above and follow us!
      Enjoy and see you on the other side!  
    • WICHTIG: Das Forum ist umgezogen!   05/04/2017

      Damen und Herren, wir bitten um Eure Aufmerksamkeit, es ist an der Zeit umzuziehen!
        Wie wir bereits angekündigt hatten, ist es ab sofort nicht mehr möglich, neue Diskussionen in diesem Forum zu starten. Um Euch Zeit zu geben, laufende Diskussionen abzuschließen, könnt Ihr noch für zwei Wochen in offenen Diskussionen antworten. Danach geht dieses Forum hier in den Ruhestand und das NEUE FORUM übernimmt vollständig.
      Das Forum hier bleibt allerdings erhalten und lesbar.   Neue und verbesserte Funktionen warten auf Euch im neuen Forum und wir arbeiten bereits an weiteren Erweiterungen.
      Wir sehen uns auf der anderen Seite!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php Update:
      Wie angekündigt könen ab sofort in diesem Forum auch keine neuen Beiträge mehr veröffentlicht werden.
    • IMPORTANT: Le nouveau forum   05/04/2017

      Aventurières, aventuriers, votre attention s'il vous plaît, il est grand temps de déménager!
      Comme nous vous l'avons déjà annoncé précédemment, il n'est désormais plus possible de créer de nouveau sujet ni de répondre aux anciens sur ce bon vieux forum.
      Venez visiter le nouveau forum!
      https://community.blackdesertonline.com
      De nouvelles fonctionnalités ainsi que de nouveaux outils vous attendent dès à présent et d'autres arriveront prochainement! N'ayez pas peur du changement et rejoignez-nous! Amusez-vous bien et a bientôt dans notre nouveau chez nous

[UPDATED] Daum - Why the hell can't we trade or mail items to friends?


1,710 posts in this topic

Posted

No gold sellers, not ruined economy, and no need for trade, early levels the easy quests give you anything you need to get going, and between you and your workers you can do anything you want without trading. Trading does not need to be in this game, and we are happy it isn't.

I'm not being obtuse here, I have a genuine question.. The argument for trading is that it is an important aspect of a social community in an online game, correct? Assuming you disagree with that, what actually is the argument against it? I mean, why are you happy that there is no trade? Again this is a legit question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Honestly, the people against p2p trade fall in two categories, the ones that are against full open trading but would be ok with restricted trading and the ones that want everything to be earned at an individual level. 

If the majority REALLY wanted 0 trade abuse, true single player game with MGS 5, style limited multiplayer outlet then the auction house needs to be removed. Auction house IS a form of indirect p2p trade after all, ie trading with random players through an npc. 

Ultimately, restricted p2p trade would be a very good compromise for both parties.

I've seen someone in my thread complain about how pot trading would be still broken EVEN IF the value of the potion has to be traded back, ie if i trade you 10 large pots, you HAVE to trade me 5k silver or the trade won't go through, then turn around and say he loves potion trading once pre launch hit just because daum decided to implement it after all, stating that it helps him stay in the fight longer. Blatant fanboy is blatant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

LMAO!  I love the sarcasm!

And while were at it, lets remove the servers so we don't connect to anything and we can play the stand-alone game that each of us wants to play. You play your way and the rest plays their way.

Most just want to play the game that was made and is very successful all over the world. Now people want to pay for the game how it is and then think they now have the right to say it should be a different way. If you don't like it don't play it but it has become successful just the way it is and doesn't need to change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

No gold sellers, not ruined economy, and no need for trade, early levels the easy quests give you anything you need to get going, and between you and your workers you can do anything you want without trading. Trading does not need to be in this game, and we are happy it isn't.

No, YOU and a FEW others are happy with it. And YES, trading does need to be in this game. You obviously don't craft much and/or have no friends. My wife almost cried when she had to sell off for peanuts over 2k of wood and a ton of ore because she couldn't help me build my boat I've been busting my butt to make ( Lack of materials. The ones she sold off ).

It's called helping. You should try it sometime. Oh wait, you just want to fight and have no friends to help. I understand now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Honestly, the people against p2p trade fall in two categories, the ones that are against full open trading but would be ok with restricted trading and the ones that want everything to be earned at an individual level. 

If the majority REALLY wanted 0 trade abuse, true single player game with MGS 5, style limited multiplayer outlet then the auction house needs to be removed. Auction house IS a form of indirect p2p trade after all, ie trading with random players through an npc. 

Ultimately, restricted p2p trade would be a very good compromise for both parties.

I've seen someone in my thread complain about how pot trading would be still broken EVEN IF the value of the potion has to be traded back, ie if i trade you 10 large pots, you HAVE to trade me 5k silver or the trade won't go through, then turn around and say he loves potion trading once pre launch hit just because daum decided to implement it after all, stating that it helps him stay in the fight longer. Blatant fanboy is blatant.

Equivalent trade is something I would be okay with personally. I'm not against trade, I just don't want them to enable the gold-sellers because at this point they're doing a decent job at keeping them away unless you're going to spend an outrageous amount of time and money RMTing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Most just want to play the game that was made and is very successful all over the world. Now people want to pay for the game how it is and then think they now have the right to say it should be a different way. If you don't like it don't play it but it has become successful just the way it is and doesn't need to change.

MMO are always a transient platform and almost always need to change. Their systems are constantly changing and in a state of development flux.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I'm not being obtuse here, I have a genuine question.. The argument for trading is that it is an important aspect of a social community in an online game, correct? Assuming you disagree with that, what actually is the argument against it? I mean, why are you happy that there is no trade? Again this is a legit question.

No spammers, no scammers, no ruined economy, no pay 2 win, it seems pretty obvious.. Would it be nice to trade yes, but giving up 1 thing for so many benefits seems like a no brainer. Now if they figure out a way to do it in the future that is unexploitable or p2w'y then we could try it at that point, but just putting it in regular would ruin things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

It is very easy to get rich in this game with billions even with just playing and using the Market. however it would be nice to have some kind of guild chest where users could deposit base mats for the guild to use, but ONLY if it was some way unexploitable.

Suggestion:

1. ONLY allow P2P trading between Guild members after they have been a member for a period of time ( say 1 week ). Gold sellers wouldn't join and stay in a Guild for that long just to make a sale to a guild member, and the purchaser wouldn't wait a week to get their items after paying in advance. PLUS, the guild would have kicked them out before anything would happen anyway.

2. After a trade of anything, the item(s) become bound to account AND has 0 sell value to a merchant. ( This would eliminate the potion selling scheme going on now also ). Basically, it's a one-way sell. As for the silver? See #1 above. And I think we can live without silver trading. I know I can. But harvestable items and crafted items? We need this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

No, YOU and a FEW others are happy with it. And YES, trading does need to be in this game. You obviously don't craft much and/or have no friends. My wife almost cried when she had to sell off for peanuts over 2k of wood and a ton of ore because she couldn't help me build my boat I've been busting my butt to make ( Lack of materials. The ones she sold off ).

It's called helping. You should try it sometime. Oh wait, you just want to fight and have no friends to help. I understand now.

A desclaimer for the game would probably have stopped a lot of these forum spam, and sold a lot less copies, lol

DESCLAIMER: This game has no trade, it is mostly a single player MMO

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

A desclaimer for the game would probably have stopped a lot of these forum spam, and sold a lot less copies, lol

DESCLAIMER: This game has no trade, it is mostly a single player MMO

 

 

Have no intention of quitting and am having fun playing, but... had we actually known that there was no interplayer trading at all in this game.... it is likely that we wouldn't have bought any of the 3 copies we did. It just never would have occurred to me to even question whether an ***MMORPG*** would have that as a feature or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Equivalent trade is something I would be okay with personally. I'm not against trade, I just don't want them to enable the gold-sellers because at this point they're doing a decent job at keeping them away unless you're going to spend an outrageous amount of time and money RMTing. 

The following would eliminate gold sellers all together AND enable P2P trading. I don't know why they have not considered these options. Or maybe they are, but have not posted about it. I don't see any loopholes. If there is one, I wish someone would please post it. I see this as a perfect solution. 

1. ONLY allow P2P trading between Guild members after they have been a member for a period of time ( say 1 week ). Gold sellers wouldn't join and stay in a Guild for that long just to make a sale to a guild member, and the purchaser wouldn't wait a week to get their items after paying in advance. PLUS, the guild would have kicked them out before anything would happen anyway.

2. After a trade of anything, the item(s) become bound to account AND has 0 sell value to a merchant. ( This would eliminate the potion selling scheme going on now also ). Basically, it's a one-way sell. As for the silver? See #1 above. And I think we can live without silver trading. I know I can. But harvestable items and crafted items? We need this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

No spammers, no scammers, no ruined economy, no pay 2 win, it seems pretty obvious.. Would it be nice to trade yes, but giving up 1 thing for so many benefits seems like a no brainer. Now if they figure out a way to do it in the future that is unexploitable or p2w'y then we could try it at that point, but just putting it in regular would ruin things.

OK thanks for putting it down like that, I was reasonably late to the thread and it's mostly been centred around one aspect so far.

We've pretty much knocked the first 2 off the list in the last few pages, spammers and scammers are here. I suppose there is no ruined economy because in a sense there kind of is NO economy, so yeah... I will agree about the pay 2 win aspect though, I think everyone dislikes RMT in that sense, but then my hatred also extends to cash shops, something which unfortunately I've had to grit my teeth and accept in recent years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

No spammers, no scammers, no ruined economy, no pay 2 win, it seems pretty obvious.. Would it be nice to trade yes, but giving up 1 thing for so many benefits seems like a no brainer. Now if they figure out a way to do it in the future that is unexploitable or p2w'y then we could try it at that point, but just putting it in regular would ruin things.

I agree that regular, non restricted P2P trade WOULD ruin things and the gold sellers would profit. I hate the gold sellers also, however, Nobody is commenting on the following 2 options that have been presented. Why would they not work in completely removing the gold sellers? 

1. ONLY allow P2P trading between Guild members after they have been a member for a period of time ( say 1 week ). Gold sellers wouldn't join and stay in a Guild for that long just to make a sale to a guild member, and the purchaser wouldn't wait a week to get their items after paying in advance. PLUS, the guild would have kicked them out before anything would happen anyway.

2. After a trade of anything, the item(s) become bound to account AND has 0 sell value to a merchant. ( This would eliminate the potion selling scheme going on now also ). Basically, it's a one-way sell. As for the silver? See #1 above. And I think we can live without silver trading. I know I can. But harvestable items and crafted items? We need this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

OK thanks for putting it down like that, I was reasonably late to the thread and it's mostly been centred around one aspect so far.

We've pretty much knocked the first 2 off the list in the last few pages, spammers and scammers are here. I suppose there is no ruined economy because in a sense there kind of is NO economy, so yeah... I will agree about the pay 2 win aspect though, I think everyone dislikes RMT in that sense, but then my hatred also extends to cash shops, something which unfortunately I've had to grit my teeth and accept in recent years.

There is an economy it just doesn't feel like it because the prices are only indirectly controlled by the players, not directly so it doesn't feel as though we have as much of an effect. I don't like cash shops either but let's face it if we want the servers to stay up and we want expansions they have to make money some way since this isn't a pay to play game, as long as the cash shop doesn't become p2w I am ok with it.

I agree that regular, non restricted P2P trade WOULD ruin things and the gold sellers would profit. I hate the gold sellers also, however, Nobody is commenting on the following 2 options that have been presented. Why would they not work in completely removing the gold sellers? 

1. ONLY allow P2P trading between Guild members after they have been a member for a period of time ( say 1 week ). Gold sellers wouldn't join and stay in a Guild for that long just to make a sale to a guild member, and the purchaser wouldn't wait a week to get their items after paying in advance. PLUS, the guild would have kicked them out before anything would happen anyway.

2. After a trade of anything, the item(s) become bound to account AND has 0 sell value to a merchant. ( This would eliminate the potion selling scheme going on now also ). Basically, it's a one-way sell. As for the silver? See #1 above. And I think we can live without silver trading. I know I can. But harvestable items and crafted items? We need this.

Yeah any ideas would have to be really tested.

I thought of having NO silver trading and making any traded items bound to the the person (like mentioned above).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

There is an economy it just doesn't feel like it because the prices are only indirectly controlled by the players, not directly so it doesn't feel as though we have as much of an effect. I don't like cash shops either but let's face it if we want the servers to stay up and we want expansions they have to make money some way since this isn't a pay to play game, as long as the cash shop doesn't become p2w I am ok with it.

Oh no I agree, I am a staunch backer of a monthly sub model, but I appreciate that those days are largely gone so I just grumble about it sometimes but get on with it lol. The games have to pay somehow.

Funnily enough I was looking at the marketplace earlier and I kinda thought that. If players could trade, the marketplace would be almost obsolete as black market trade with a separate, player driven economy will become far more profitable. That is unless the prices dictated on the marketplace are dynamic? I don't know about that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Equivalent trade is something I would be okay with personally. I'm not against trade, I just don't want them to enable the gold-sellers because at this point they're doing a decent job at keeping them away unless you're going to spend an outrageous amount of time and money RMTing. 

Yes, I was actually disappointed when they allowed potion trading. I really hope they come up with a more flexible and robust solution

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Oh no I agree, I am a staunch backer of a monthly sub model, but I appreciate that those days are largely gone so I just grumble about it sometimes but get on with it lol. The games have to pay somehow.

Funnily enough I was looking at the marketplace earlier and I kinda thought that. If players could trade, the marketplace would be almost obsolete as black market trade with a separate, player driven economy will become far more profitable. That is unless the prices dictated on the marketplace are dynamic? I don't know about that.

I would wager the average player is just way too lazy to set up a black market, or hunt down a buyer all the time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I'm not being obtuse here, I have a genuine question.. The argument for trading is that it is an important aspect of a social community in an online game, correct? Assuming you disagree with that, what actually is the argument against it? I mean, why are you happy that there is no trade? Again this is a legit question.

Dude I've tried asking literally the same question to a lot of these people.  They have no reply.  They always just go "mah gold sellers"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

If players could trade, the marketplace would be almost obsolete as black market trade with a separate, player driven economy will become far more profitable.

Would limiting trade to only between guild members and putting a cooldown on changing guilds (to minimize abuse of joining just to buy/sell stuff) help to alleviate that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

hehe. I thought of the Guild one also. lol

Have no intention of quitting and am having fun playing, but... had we actually known that there was no interplayer trading at all in this game.... it is likely that we wouldn't have bought any of the 3 copies we did. It just never would have occurred to me to even question whether an ***MMORPG*** would have that as a feature or not.

I absolutely agree!

We bought 4 copies here and feel the same way. We're not quitting yet because it's new and we are having fun. Games change over time and we'll see what happens here. But, would we have known before our purchase......well......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

What is your excuse for not knowing this before you bought the game?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Okay so to deflect gold selling I can't even give my friend basic items he needs for crafting that I no longer need or want?  That's flawed.  MMOs from 1990s had trading in them.  There is no excuse to leave a basic MMO feature absent behind the "preventing gold sellers" excuse.

Thing is it hasn't prevented them from doing jack shit. Many gold selling sites will simply log into your account and farm the gold for you, others will trade you potions and so on. Best bet would be to make it so you can trade anything, however after acquired through trading an item can not be resold & gear = soul bound on acquisition/enchantment. That prevents gold sellers and level 50+ players giving their noob friends godlike gear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

What is your excuse for not knowing this before you bought the game?

Who the ----- looks up basic social features that has been MMO standard for nearly 2 decades before buying an MMO?

Thing is it hasn't prevented them from doing jack shit. Many gold selling sites will simply log into your account and farm the gold for you, others will trade you potions and so on. Best bet would be to make it so you can trade anything, however after acquired through trading an item can not be resold & gear = soul bound on acquisition/enchantment. That prevents gold sellers and level 50+ players giving their noob friends godlike gear.

I know.  There are tons of spammers on Edan and plenty of sites already offering and selling their services.  This does nothing but hurt legitimate players.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Due to the increased "goldseller" population, we are beginning to put systems in place to suppress their market.

• Items traded 1:1 will become character bound and can not be sold anymore to the NPC (character bound)
• Channel chat will now cost 1 Energy for the first and 3 Energy for any consecutive message

So..? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This topic is now closed to further replies.