• Announcements

    • IMPORTANT - REACH US IN THE NEW FORUM   05/04/2017

      Ladies and gentlemen ATTENTION please:
      It's time to move into a new house!
        As previously announced, from now on IT WON'T BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE THREADS OR REPLY in the old forums. From now on the old forums will be readable only. If you need to move/copy/migrate any post/material from here, feel free to contact the staff in the new home. We’ll be waiting for you in the NEW Forums!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php

      *New features and amazing tools are waiting for you, even more is yet to come in the future.. just like world exploration in BDO leads to new possibilities.
      So don't be afraid about changes, click the link above and follow us!
      Enjoy and see you on the other side!  
    • WICHTIG: Das Forum ist umgezogen!   05/04/2017

      Damen und Herren, wir bitten um Eure Aufmerksamkeit, es ist an der Zeit umzuziehen!
        Wie wir bereits angekündigt hatten, ist es ab sofort nicht mehr möglich, neue Diskussionen in diesem Forum zu starten. Um Euch Zeit zu geben, laufende Diskussionen abzuschließen, könnt Ihr noch für zwei Wochen in offenen Diskussionen antworten. Danach geht dieses Forum hier in den Ruhestand und das NEUE FORUM übernimmt vollständig.
      Das Forum hier bleibt allerdings erhalten und lesbar.   Neue und verbesserte Funktionen warten auf Euch im neuen Forum und wir arbeiten bereits an weiteren Erweiterungen.
      Wir sehen uns auf der anderen Seite!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php Update:
      Wie angekündigt könen ab sofort in diesem Forum auch keine neuen Beiträge mehr veröffentlicht werden.
    • IMPORTANT: Le nouveau forum   05/04/2017

      Aventurières, aventuriers, votre attention s'il vous plaît, il est grand temps de déménager!
      Comme nous vous l'avons déjà annoncé précédemment, il n'est désormais plus possible de créer de nouveau sujet ni de répondre aux anciens sur ce bon vieux forum.
      Venez visiter le nouveau forum!
      https://community.blackdesertonline.com
      De nouvelles fonctionnalités ainsi que de nouveaux outils vous attendent dès à présent et d'autres arriveront prochainement! N'ayez pas peur du changement et rejoignez-nous! Amusez-vous bien et a bientôt dans notre nouveau chez nous

[UPDATED] Daum - Why the hell can't we trade or mail items to friends?


1,710 posts in this topic

Posted

All shallow and poor examples of team play. X gives Y Z material so Y can get a boat. How fking great.  I don't know how you can act like I haven't said its "team play", it is on a very primitive level, but as a game mechanic it's utterly basic and lacks all form of creativity in order to accomplish a task. Yes I would fking laugh at a game that would like to advertise, "trading", as a key feature for players to get excited about due to the amazing group opportunities it creates. I'm going to repeat this until you understand that it's very possible to create gameplay mechanics and functions which create the same result in a very different and more healthy manner. If I have to give examples and do your own work for you then so be it.

Yeah, okay. 

The only important things you have said there, I've already said myself. 

Within the last page, no less. 

I never liked the aspect of peer-to-peer trading all that much in mmos. In my experience it was never actively used a lot other than moving items around or giving something away. I never truly bargained for a price or traded value because the value of items in mmos were often static. Unless I knew a person who actively gathered items and would let me buy in bulk, it just was not something to facilitate. Mailing items even with cod was a rarely used concept - Lets break down the illusion for a second, the idea that people actively created a connection in other mmos diminished greatly over the years. These are great ideas to trade and mail items, but it's not good and hasn't been good for awhile.

Some people play games entirely single player, some people don't make connections, and some people don't even touch trade/crafting. 

That's fine, but a lot of people do. They're not even hard to find or rare, it's why those things still exist in games. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I think at the very least materials should be able to be traded... like iron,copper,apples,potatoes ect stuff that isnt really worth alot to sell anyways i mean i havent seen potatoes on the market like ever since they are worth so little... being able to trade items like these to friends should be allowed.

 

And i mean only the raw resources... that way you would still have to process it ect but it allows some minimal form of trading some basic stuff. and it would still be unsellable once it has been traded (to avoid any way of goldsellers of "selling gold" by say giving someone a shitton of potatoes or something)

Edited by Adrianna

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Cons:

  • No way to cooperate with friends/guilds on huge investments.

Pros:

  • Hard to work for goldsellers
  • no spam in chat WTS ******** 

I have small suggestion for this trading system. There should be way to trade items but for silver like in auction. "Face to Face" marketplace. 

But there should be "penalty" for doing that, Buyer should pay maximum price for item, and seller should receive lowest possible price. (in most cases it's going to be not worth to buy anythink by this way except 'rare/hard accessible items". And its going to prevent gold sellers from making any profit).

Same system can be applied to "guild storage" by buying and selling items into it (selling items into guild should require gm/officer confirmation)..

 

Edited by armano

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

here's a copy paste from my post in a different thread, if some of you are not following, that makes things simple

 

As I said in the other mega thread, this still look like an unnecessary solution to the issue, pearl abyss clearly wants to keep things tight with their controlled ah, all it's needed is to improve their auction house algorithm with a more refined way to update min max prices and adjust them when things are not selling in a way that makes those sell again, so prices needs to adjust when no one is selling as well. They also need to keep monitoring drop rates of their loot-tables and crafting generation variables to keep all items within the optimal rate to have a place in the market and have people interested to sell and buy. This alone is a huge amount of work on a regular basis, and that's where the effort need to happen. The auction house has already all the other components to work properly, and a private trade wouldn't offer any additional benefit to both buyer and seller, it would be just way more work to PA to implement an additional interface and iron out all the quirks that come with it.

If this was a game that encourage bartering and free market prices, a private trade would make sense to create situations where people would buy low wholesale and sell high retail around the world, take advantage of people without understanding of market price to buy low and sell at market rate, or where goods are limited, would create opportunities but this is a tight and streamlined trading system that doesn't want to leave room to smart economic advantage by design.

On top of that it doesn't make sense to cut taxes to outlaws, just doesn't make sense in the real world to give bank loan at 0% to murderers, and tax high the good citizens. Where is the logic to put outlaw in such advantage when should be limited to pretty much everything in the normal society. If I'm not mistaken outlaw have got their own town with specific advantages perhaps something like this would make sense to happen just in there and that's it, like outlaw helps outlaws, but nothing more than that.

 

Edit: If Pearl Abyss really want to make you guys happy to trade specific goods to targeted people, they can do the quick and easy way

- still use the same item for sale window and same price calculation

- adding a checkbox and a target name input field in the interface

- you check the checkbox, and activate the input and insert the name of the specific person you want to push a trade

- the price is calculate based on the current ah best sale price

- you send the item in the auction house and the other side has let's say 30 mins to buy the item which is exclusive to him

- If the buyer is not buying within the 30 minutes, the item goes automatically on public sale at that fixed price

 

Then you send a message to the specific users and tell him that the specific sale is up for grabs and he has got 30 minutes, this can be reinforced with an automatic notification that can be turned off in the settings eventually.

 

The buyer then goes to the auction closest to him to buy the specific item using the same interface, the specific item would just show on top of other listings and labeled as private sale with a timer. Once the time is up, the item will convert to public one, and will be visible to everyone, the buyer can still buy it, but cheaper priced one might be more convenient after 30 minutes has passed or can either be the cheaper one on top

 

 

No extra calculation needed

No potential exploits introduced

No extra interface to code, apart from small changes to the existing one

There you go, you have got a way to trade exclusively with another party in line with tight principle PA seems to like

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

Edit: If Pearl Abyss really want to make you guys happy to trade specific goods to targeted people, they can do the quick and easy way

- still use the same item for sale window and same price calculation

- adding a checkbox and a target name input field in the interface

- you check the checkbox, and activate the input and insert the name of the specific person you want to push a trade

- the price is calculate based on the current ah best sale price

- you send the item in the auction house and the other side has let's say 30 mins to buy the item which is exclusive to him

- If the buyer is not buying within the 30 minutes, the item goes automatically on public sale at that fixed price

 

Yeah something similar has come up a lot, about just literally opening up the auction house but with only the two parties involved and have it instant. 

That would at least solve the retardation of "trading" through the current auction house. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Shugospam:

I know people aren't going to like this but hey, here's reality:

The objective of the limited player trading isn't really to stop gold sellers, it's to have AH price control in the hands of the publisher.

If you are wondering why that matters, you have to observe the original design of the game where cash shop items have a market value and everything that matters can be sold through the market.

By having direct control of the market prices, the publisher (yes, I'm purposely saying publisher and not developer) has the ability to dictate the relative real life price of any item in game. In other words, because you can convert cash shop items to silver and silver to any equipment you want, they can dictate how much real life currency an in game item is worth, even if it's not directly sold.

It's an undercovered pay to win design that drives the player trade limitations.

I know some of you may be thinking I'm being a hater on a tin foil hat, but I'm not. Know that in Korea, every single time cash shop sales have started getting low the cash shop items' silver market price has been risen, at least once more than 5-fold. This has happened at least three times until I stopped counting, all of which has coincided with how much money the players were able to acquire by non-cash shop means.

Also know that cash shop items have always been some of the higher priced items to the exception of very highly enchanted gear (we are talking +16 or so here, or +II accessories, etc).

So to sum it up, removing player trading is a means to control cash shop value directly for straight up P2W tactics.

Obviously, with the removal of this ability in our region, the removal of player trading has been tooted as the way to stop gold sellers. It does seem to stop silver trading, but scammers and thieves will find ways to scam and steal if not acted against.

 

Edited by Asmodeus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Heres an Idea. If you need something in game go out and earn it. If your friend cant get an apple on his own or get enough silver to buy said apple then he doesn't deserve that apple. 

And theres other ways to help friends but im not going to teach you how to play. Figure it out or leave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

And theres other ways to help friends but im not going to teach you how to play. Figure it out or leave

I guess anyone can figure things out better if they google "Black Desert Bible 1.6" :)

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Holy crap this downs thread is still going...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I bought the game, its a buy to play game and I payed a good amount of money for it. The items that drop are mine, I payed money to be able to obtain them, what I do with them should be my choice and my choice alone! If I want to trade them to my best friend because I had time to go farm for something that he needs or just because he wants that fish/weapon and so on I should be able to do it! Sam goes for silver- my game, my char, my silver. I invested my time to farm it, to kill the mobs, to do the trading, it mine and mine alone - what I do with it should be my choice.

There must be a better way to keep gold sellers out one of them being banning all site links from chat. What will they do, buy a new domain name every 3 minutes?!
Same goes for the chat - my game, my chat. This is a freaking MMO and  there is a cost to TALK to other players - this makes less than 0 sense omg...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I bought the game, its a buy to play game and I payed a good amount of money for it. The items that drop are mine, I payed money to be able to obtain them, what I do with them should be my choice and my choice alone! If I want to trade them to my best friend because I had time to go farm for something that he needs or just because he wants that fish/weapon and so on I should be able to do it! Sam goes for silver- my game, my char, my silver. I invested my time to farm it, to kill the mobs, to do the trading, it mine and mine alone - what I do with it should be my choice.

There must be a better way to keep gold sellers out one of them being banning all site links from chat. What will they do, buy a new domain name every 3 minutes?!
Same goes for the chat - my game, my chat. This is a freaking MMO and  there is a cost to TALK to other players - this makes less than 0 sense omg...

When you buy a game you agree to use the content and the gamesystem offered, each game has its laws and this can change at any time if the developer wants. You just have the rights to those drops as they have been decided by the developers of each game you play, whatever rights those are. They can shut down the game anytime, and all the virtual pixel are gone, and you are not entitled to any compensation for the time spen to acquire them

Edited by Onetyper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 it removes the social interaction that could be realized with it.

pfft right, as if we play MMOs for interactions with others

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

When you buy a game you agree to use the content and the gamesystem offered, each game has its laws and this can change at any time if the developer wants. You just have the rights to those drops as they have been decided by the developers of each game you play, whatever rights those are. They can shut down the game anytime, and all the virtual pixel are gone, and you are not entitled to any compensation for the time spen to acquire them

Could you also explain MMO/MMORPG means? Only thing I see is other people running around. Cant chat - costs energy, cant trade, can only be killed but that has a punishment too. So what I see is me getting punished for every single thing that kind of makes a game an MMO/MMORPG. What can you do exactly? Level together with your friend? Someone said you only get 60% exp because 2 of you are killing the mobs ( another guy said it's 2x60% = 120%) so even if you want to play with someone else the game finds a way to punish you. 
It kind of was advertised as a PVP endgame game, but how is it called PVP with all those punishments? I really have to be in a large guild to be able to PVP and try and prove that I am skilled? How exactly will I prove that in a node war without a
leaderboard and 100vs 100 other people. What does it prove, that I can bomb multiple players? 

So I am not allowed to PVE in a MMO sense ( I mean I can do it solo or invite someone but I will be punished) and I cant really PVP because I am only getting punished there or there are very specific requirements (like be in a large guild and have no life).

It's a Single Player Game and we should deal with it or try to push for changes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

pfft right, as if we play MMOs for interactions with others

There was a time long ago where high level players were sitting all around a campfire and talking for hours, or couples would find love online through tiny pixel avatars, there weren't social networks or communication apps, text chats were the thing which in game was anyway better, noawadays this kind of messages are either people who like the market pvp aspect so want to trade freely or gold sellers newbies who are trying to make some spare coins selling few gold to wholesale or themselves on PA, EpicNpc and so on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

No trading is the best feature they could do. This way, nobody can spend 200$ to goldsellers and buy a full +15 stuff at lvl 20. This is awesome.

Please tell me how could someone “buy gold/silver” if the private trade also had min-max prices?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Could you also explain MMO/MMORPG means? Only thing I see is other people running around. Cant chat - costs energy, cant trade, can only be killed but that has a punishment too. So what I see is me getting punished for every single thing that kind of makes a game an MMO/MMORPG. What can you do exactly? Level together with your friend? Someone said you only get 60% exp because 2 of you are killing the mobs ( another guy said it's 2x60% = 120%) so even if you want to play with someone else the game finds a way to punish you. It kind of was advertised as a PVP endgame game, but how is it called PVP with all those punishments? I really have to be in a large guild to be able to PVP and try and prove that I am skilled? How exactly will I prove that in a node war without a leaderboard and 100vs 100 other people. What does it prove, that I can bomb multiple players? 

So I am not allowed to PVE in a MMO sense ( I mean I can do it solo or invite someone but I will be punished) and I cant really PVP because I am only getting punished there or there are very specific requirements (like be in a large guild and have no life).

It's a Single Player Game and we should deal with it or try to push for changes.

There are tradeoffs in everything in life, they had to make choices just like any game which bring a different outcome. You cannot please everyone, they are giving you pve and pvp, it's just not your flavour. You are free to push whatever change you want.

Edited by Onetyper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Heres an Idea. If you need something in game go out and earn it. If your friend cant get an apple on his own or get enough silver to buy said apple then he doesn't deserve that apple. 

Wow, gosh, 58 pages and NOBODY thought of that. OR.... you just ignored 58 pages of explanation and debate. Here, let me summarize for you in a few simple words: COOPERATIVE GAMEPLAY. (And, again, if you need a more in-depth explanation of what is meant by that in this regard, and why it ISN'T supported by current game mechanics, well, there's 58 pages waitin' for ya'....

There are tradeoffs in everything in life, they had to make choices just like any game .... You are free to push whatever change you want.

Exactly.

Pearl Abyss and Daum have provided us with the game such as it is, based on decisions they've made. But MMOs are NOT static things, and are constantly undergoing revision and improvement. All WE are doing is -- using the supported feedback mechanism given us, the Forums -- providing feedback to them on how WE feel about their game, and what WE think would make the game experience more enjoyable and keep us playing the awesome game longer. THEY will take this information and either act on it, or not. That's THEIR choice, but they certainly don't know what the players are thinking and feeling if we don't tell them. Which is what we've been doing here.

And what others are doing in other threads on topics THEY feel strongly about.

 

Edited by Elianydd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

Wow, gosh, 58 pages and NOBODY thought of that. OR.... you just ignored 58 pages of explanation and debate. Here, let me summarize for you in a few simple words: COOPERATIVE GAMEPLAY. (And, again, if you need a more in-depth explanation of what is meant by that in this regard, and why it ISN'T supported by current game mechanics, well, there's 58 pages waitin' for ya'....

Exactly.

Pearl Abyss and Daum have provided us with the game such as it is, based on decisions they've made. But MMOs are NOT static things, and are constantly undergoing revision and improvement. All WE are doing is -- using the supported feedback mechanism given us, the Forums -- providing feedback to them on how WE feel about their game, and what WE think would make the game experience more enjoyable and keep us playing the awesome game longer. THEY will take this information and either act on it, or not. That's THEIR choice, but they certainly don't know what the players are thinking and feeling if we don't tell them. Which is what we've been doing here.

And what others are doing in other threads on topics THEY feel strongly about.

 

Feedback is always good, the problem is that either because of age, experience or lack of knowledge or just plain needs to be rebellious and self-entitled, most suggestions are targeting specific needs without considering the vision of the developers and if such changes are too in contrast. In the end, a developer needs to have a certain leadership voice, not just cater every vocal customer. They need to take in consideration suggestions that are line with their core principles and their business model, and easy enough to implement, not whatever suggestion you throw at them. I understand that not every gamer has the life or work experience to understand that, that's why some of more experienced people from time to time appear on mmo forums :)

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

No trade is a pure violation of what makes games MMOs. I have friends who refuse to play the game because it completely ruins the point of the game itself. There are better single-player RPGs than this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

No trade is a pure violation of what makes games MMOs. I have friends who refuse to play the game because it completely ruins the point of the game itself. There are better single-player RPGs than this.

This game has so many other aspects to talk about, I guess your friend like trading and flipping items all day long if he refuse to play due to this limitation. MMO are not just trading, I guess your friend can keep playing archeage or wait for Albion to be released.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Edit: If Pearl Abyss really want to make you guys happy to trade specific goods to targeted people, they can do the quick and easy way

- still use the same item for sale window and same price calculation

- adding a checkbox and a target name input field in the interface

- you check the checkbox, and activate the input and insert the name of the specific person you want to push a trade

- the price is calculate based on the current ah best sale price

- you send the item in the auction house and the other side has let's say 30 mins to buy the item which is exclusive to him

- If the buyer is not buying within the 30 minutes, the item goes automatically on public sale at that fixed price

 

 

I hope PA can put a little more effort into this.

I really think a limited P2P trade such as above...we need to be able to trade 'like for like'. EG, 1000 silver value of Logs for 1000 value of Iron Ore. Otherwise it will remain unnecessarily restrictive. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

This game has so many other aspects to talk about, I guess your friend like trading and flipping items all day long if he refuse to play due to this limitation. MMO are not just trading, I guess your friend can keep playing archeage or wait for Albion to be released.

This game is a PvP mmo only, it's not even an mmorpg, it's a battle arena with a single player side game to grind gear.

It's really just a waste of a perfectly good system.

Comic_001.thumb.jpg.c6450b37a4b173f4cf79 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

This game is a PvP mmo only, it's not even an mmorpg, it's a battle arena with a single player side game to grind gear.

It's really just a waste of a perfectly good system.

 

perhaps to you, not to me. You do not even need to touch any pvp and still have lots to do with all the side systems for 100s hours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

perhaps to you, not to me. You do not even need to touch any pvp and still have lots to do with all the side systems for 100s hours.

Absolutely, but there's no player interactions on a system level for any of that beyond chat. 

Very very rare exceptions, of course. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Holy crap this downs thread is still going...

Nice contribution.  Classy reply.

No trade is a pure violation of what makes games MMOs. I have friends who refuse to play the game because it completely ruins the point of the game itself. There are better single-player RPGs than this.

Agreed.  It's pretty sad because I know people who would in a heartbeat drop 30 or 50 dollars on buying this game but the first thing I tell all my friends is that there's no trading and that's enough to turn most people off the idea entirely.

Absolutely, but there's no player interactions on a system level for any of that beyond chat. 

Very very rare exceptions, of course. 

After trying to, on multiple occasions, play with friends in any capacity besides grinding mobs, I am inclined to agree with this.  It's unfortunate but as you said there are rare exceptions.  Chilling in a house talking about wood and boats comes to mind but beyond that, there's a lot to be desired with social interactions in this game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This topic is now closed to further replies.