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Game does not feel Buy-to-play: I feel like I have wasted money


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Posted

Hi,

Congratulations on the game by the way, 'almost' my favourite MMO so far.

My biggest problem however is for NA/EU players it seems like a waste of money. It does not feel any different from a F2P game. In fact from what I have read and seen there is no difference from the B2P model and the F2P model. The cash shop is as expensive as it would be in free to play, far to expensive. If this game is really Buy to play then a player must spend the same cost of the game to get a costume. Which brings me to my next issue.. 

Costumes... or armors and outfits in general, many MMO players myself included, like to change outfits and armors and like to look cool while playing. The armors make no difference to how you look and I don't feel like I have progressed.. even if I have. I understand that this would take lots of development work and I do not expect a change straight away, but where costumes are concerned it feels like a free to play game. Perhaps eventually having cosmetic costumes that can be created in a costume mill for example.. I know it would take work but would be nice. Or lowering the price for the costumes... considering we have paid to get into the game to begin with. I believe you may even make more money with a lower price as more people can afford them.

Perhaps have already available armors, such as some from NPCs and allow them to be created in a costume mill. Or the costumes created in the mill could fill the outfit slot not the armor slots.

All I would like is to look different from every other player. Without the need to pay money I cannot afford because I have already paid for the game to begin with. I would be happy to support the game further when I can.. but not pay double the price for something cosmetic.

Currently the NA/EU version of BDO is a free to play game with an entrance fee... something that should be changed.

Again I understand this might take work and will take time..

(If others read this.. I'd love to hear your input and what you think)

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Posted

I agree. I bought the Explorers Pack (still haven't gotten my stuff), logged in - and found I had to buy their in-game currency to buy the in-game currency to buy goods. I bought the stuff to upgrade my bags because.. quite frankly, I had no real recourse. Every other aspect of this truly feels like a f2p game. There seems to be no benefits at all to buying it, and I really feel a bit ripped off. The sheer cost of... everything, EVERYTHING, is insane. You would have to spend $40 on TOP of the game to get one outfit and a few bag upgrades. That isn't reasonable.

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Ye, gotta agree with you. I was enjoying my time leveling until I found out that most of the armor/costumes are only attainable via the store... I had done my research concerning the store and I had figured that the end game content must contain some decent armor anyway. However, this is not the case. You end up upgrading your basic armor most of the way through. And yes, the prices are insane. For me, character appearance towards end game content is quite important and now that I know almost all the good/unique armor can only be bought... I'm tempted to quit altogether.

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Posted (edited)

This.

I don't understand this mentality at all, the game seems really wonderful and the type of a game that people would want to play for a long time. Why not build the business model around long term players, rather than as a quick cash grab? Look at League of Legends, every single game has people with skins in it. Even though there's no benefit to having skins, other than looking different. Out of my friends I play with, ONE of them has been like "What's the point, I don't give a damn." and every other one buys new skins on a fairly regular basis.

Now back to Black Desert...

Some of the stuff in the store is absolutely ridiculous for a B2P game. Say, respeccing. I'd understand (still wouldn't like it :P) if it wasn't a feature at all, like hardcore "build your character from the groundup" style. But now it's just a kick in the face, sure you can respec but every single time you'll pay money for it. Everyone will just end up playing the same cookie cutter builds, because who wants to experiment when you gotta pay real money for it?

And what the hell is up with the pet combining? I was okay with just the pets, even if it bugged me that you couldn't get a pet in any way from the game itself. But wtf, if you want a tier 3 pet, you gotta pay like 50-100€ depending on your combining luck, if you want the pet that'll give you the BEST STATISTICAL BENEFITS. I was planning to buy a pet, but nevermind that. I'm not gonna drop a single euro in the cash shop by the looks of it.

Now what about the random dye boxes? Who on earth thought it was a decent idea to put dyes as one-time-use items obtainable as random drops for real money? Especially considering the PATHETIC amount of different armor skins you have in the game, you should at least allow us to make our characters more personalized with a decent dye system. Guild Wars 2, another B2P MMO has an account wide dye inventory, where once you get a dye once, you unlock it for your whole account, for good. If your system has to be based on effing RNG, at least make the dyes permanent and account-wide.

Not to mention the completely outrageous costume prices and stuff like the -----ing stealth costume, all of which again is for a single character.

MMO companies really just want the MMO genre to die out, do they? Why do you have to get so damn short-term-greedy and not realize that this game could be making money to you for YEARS if you actually put a bit of planning into the shop and made it user friendly. I have never met a single person who'd like any of your cash shop features that I mentioned. The shop items and prices are so out of touch with reality that it's hard to believe. 

I bought the game, I'll keep playing the game, but I'm not buying a single pearl. I've spent around 500-800€ on League of Legends during my years of playing it. Even if I play Black Desert for as long, by the looks of it, my money spend on it will remain at 29,95€. Congrats on the money lost from all the users similar to me. 

Never before have I gone from this excited to this disappointed in a game in such a short time.

Edited by Eecka
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Posted

Wow this post is super long. Sorry, you don't have to read it! (The post is under the hidden contents)

There's some nice ideas circulating this thread. I believe Daum and Pearl Abyss are regularly considering popular suggestions and these seem to be the main concern, the current systems are, confirmed, not set in stone - at all. Changes are going to be made.

In some instances, the game does feel f2p. However, I enjoy that it is b2p, as it keeps out a significant amount of negative traffic (not that the current community isn't already negatively toxic, I mean the negative traffic as in children and gold-sellers (to an extent)), we also get free DLC, which is frequent, and we had a 50% reduction in CS prices compared to KR prices. There's probably more, I am just too tired to contemplate atm.

My opinions on what should change:

Personally, I would like to see a change to the balance of the loyalty shop. The majority of the loyalty items, being somewhat a necessity to smooth gameplay, require at least ~200 days of logging in every day. This is an obvious attempt in forcing players to purchase CS items, and while I fully support Daum, this is not acceptable. If I couldn't provide for myself with little in come to enjoy this game, I would most likely just turn away from it considering everything is time consuming (not in a grinding-mobs sense, I mean logging in every day for a year to get one rare item), or Daum says here, you can just buy it. :> The people who are unfortunate shouldn't be punished in that kind of way. This is disappointing, to say the least.

Other:

  • Pets should be obtainable through either in-game currency, a more balanced/generous version of the loyalty shop, or even taming pets would be enjoyable.
    • Pets that are considered to be more game-experience-impacting by Daum could be available on the Cash Shop (as well as other pets, in case anybody wishes to simply purchase a pet with real money) and/or be obtainable as a very rare animal through taming (less of a chance of finding this animal and/or thus taming it).
    • This could apply to mounts as well. Implement more unique mounts, have them on the Cash Shop and obtainable through taming as a rare, such as my scenario w/ pets. ^
  • Dyes, in my personal opinion, should still remain randomly generated, however they should be permanently unlocked in your palette with unlimited use. I have a feeling Daum will be hesitant to implement this system, but so many people will continue to buy dyes until they have all of them, which they could use any time! If you want to remain, dare I say, greedy, you could simply make the palette character-specific, which I wouldn't argue with at all.
  • A lot of players mention skill-resetting, and I simply see this as a complaint and nothing else. Players have been given a lot of slots to expand with, if you're too cheap to reset skills with money, then simply make an alt until you find a new build that is more suitable for that specific class. Also, I've heard rumors about a free skill reset at level 45, although I haven't seen it confirmed. I don't see an issue charging money for skill resets. (No, it isn't because I am "privileged" or a "whale," it simply teaches the playerbase to commit to your character's build.)
  • The Cash Shop has been and always will be given negative feedback. This community loves to complain, and it's really annoying. I appreciate the 10% reduction Daum gave us before launch. KR prices are roughly $50 - $60 for their CS items and the KR version is F2P. The NA/EU version, we pay $30-$50 and get ~40% off of costumes. Yes, there aren't many costumes currently, however, more will obviously be added, and there will be limited edition, unique looking, and more variations of costumes. Players will succumb to the prices. For $29, I appreciate quality, unique, rare costumes coming into the game versus a $15 costume everybody wears, "forcing" a player to buy a ~$30 costume (if this scenario existed in BDO). Even though I do not have a job, I regularly make money, and although it may not be enough to buy a different costume every week, I could still support the publishers every two months or so. I'm not rich enough to pay $30 every week for a new costume, and I'm not creating thread after thread suggesting change. I'm willing to save up and patiently wait because I truly love BDO. Others should be more grateful and understanding. 
  • Finally, gold-sellers. There's recent controversy involving gold-sellers, most speculate they've gotten onto the servers with a 7-day pass, many were leaked around the internet upon launch. Unfortunately, gold-sellers are somewhat prevailing, moreso annoying and concerning the active playerbase. Somebody earlier suggested recording trade logs and disabling the use of links in chat. The latter has faults, however, more often than not MMOs have this feature, it couldn't harm anyone. It'll also protect people from the occasional troll attempting to keylog somebody for fun, potentially anyway. I also suggest: make the cost of energy upon reporting somebody significantly less or simply disable the system altogether.

That concludes my rant I guess.

And it only semi-applies to your post.

Anyway, sorry about that!!

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Posted

There are some tweaks that need to be done to the cash shop and loyalty. However I would like everyone here to take note that loyalty can be earned in events not just daily logins, if they plan to release like this. There are a lot of cash cows that have already dumped a significant amount of money. This practice does damage the perception of where there are potentially flaws in the design. They game is great and fun, but a lot of fixes will be needed over time.

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Posted

+1

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Posted

Let's compare this to... say.. Guild Wars - Wait no, Elder Scrolls Online. Elder Scrolls is Buy to Play. I actually left after it went like that and they took all my money, but... still. It gives you almost full unfettered access to the game, you can actually play. All things are attainable in the game for money.

Now, look at Rift. A game that went Free to Play. Again, most things are attainable.. sort of quickly. Buying gives perks and costumes, but a lot of stuff like souls/classes, etc - are behind the pay wall. You can still do basic things in both games such as change hair, auction, buy mounts, respec, etc.

Even look at something that was fully Free to Play to start: Kung Fu online. All the classes, much of the gear, all the skills, full inventory - etc. They make money on costumes ($5 or so per, at the time), and buffs for exp, better crafting, etc. Again though, hardly limiting and you COULD play without it.

Now here. $30-$50 to buy the game. You get very few characters who are all gender locked, an inventory that is made to fail - and even if you get them from the quest - it's made to fail, you can't respec/change features/pick and choose good gear to look different/etc. I would bet this game is free to play in Korea, and functions fully on the cash shop. If that was the case, I wouldn't complain. I would shrug and say OK. But, $50 didn't even come with free pearls, or anything. I literally just bought a car in order to get INTO the dealership, and buy more cars. :( I didn't play during beta, but this game had so much hype, that I honestly didn't expect this.

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Posted

Dont worry, the fan boys will rush into the post soon and defend it to their deaths.

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Posted

I agree with OP and as a big middle finger to Daum I wont purchase anything from their cash shop until they radically change it, although I doubt they ever will or that they actually care. They've already got my $50.

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Posted

 we had a 50% reduction in CS prices compared to KR prices.

 

This is bullshit... We have exactly the same prices as KR... +-2 euros in some case...

WHat we got for b2p is full character creator and bagspace+weight increase... f2p versions are really limited in this matter... And also some house decours, skill resets and somehow bugged pet... And many p2w items moved from cash shop into loyalty rewards... Still as a deal, obtaining BDO aint bad, compared to how limited are f2p versions...

What is problem is -----ed up cash shop... We have same prices as KR (CA has even higher with their currency problems), while most of EU is in economic state comparable to Russia (which has half of our prices)... So most player wont spent a dime, and even those who will, will buy only necessary things once, and even then they will be frustrated about it... Not an enviroment to create a healthy playerbase, which is willing to support a company...

DAUM -----ed up with cash shop BIG... We are mentioning it since CBT2 when it got released...  No feedback so far, outside of 3 euros discount for some of the costumes with lower stats, and one discount for CONQ purchasers... And even for those, they blocked many items in cash shop for release...

B2P version aint bad (still best is premium P2P RU), company is quite good at addressing some issues game had, but cash shop is fraud... They are greedy AF and they refuse to comunicate at all... Thats why many people are afraid of AA2 incoming...Their hands are full with release and its problems now, since team si pretty small, but regardless... They hope people will somehow get used to KR prices, while seeing how cheap RU is right next to them... Even when they were forced to climb a (small) paywall to play in the first place...

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Posted

As I didn't get a refund I accept my purchase as a mispurchase of the year. However I do like it for when I'm bored, but after bout an hour I quit playing, it's just not that. Also I dislike the fact armor/costumes don't change with the change of new armor types you loot from mobs. 

 

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Posted

 However, I enjoy that it is b2p, as it keeps out a significant amount of negative traffic (not that the current community isn't already negatively toxic, I mean the negative traffic as in children and gold-sellers (to an extent)), we also get free DLC, which is frequent, and we had a 50% reduction in CS prices compared to KR prices. There's probably more, I am just too tired to contemplate atm.

 

This, unfortunately, is irrelevant. Even if our prices were 1/10th of the KR prices, it would still be irrelevant. The game is region locked, there's no way for us to "legally" play any other version of the game. KR version exists in its own Korean bubble where people enjoy their cash shops for some reason.

The only valid comparison is other games released in the western market, because those are the games that this game is competing with, not the KR release. We don't have a choice between Black Desert and Black Desert KR, we have a choice between Black Desert, GW2, Wildstar, SWToR, Blade & Soul, TESO, Rift etc. Now, no matter how you personally feel about those games, they're still pretty much triple A titles with high production values and their non-subscription models are way less thirsty than this.

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Posted

This is bullshit... We have exactly the same prices as KR... +-2 euros in some case...

WHat we got for b2p is full character creator and bagspace+weight increase... f2p versions are really limited in this matter... And also some house decours, skill resets and somehow bugged pet... And many p2w items moved from cash shop into loyalty rewards... Still as a deal, obtaining BDO aint bad, compared to how limited are f2p versions...

What is problem is -----ed up cash shop... We have same prices as KR (CA has even higher with their currency problems), while most of EU is in economic state comparable to Russia (which has half of our prices)... So most player wont spent a dime, and even those who will, will buy only necessary things once, and even then they will be frustrated about it... Not an enviroment to create a healthy playerbase, which is willing to support a company...

DAUM -----ed up with cash shop BIG... We are mentioning it since CBT2 when it got released...  No feedback so far, outside of 3 euros discount for some of the costumes with lower stats, and one discount for CONQ purchasers... And even for those, they blocked many items in cash shop for release...

B2P version aint bad (still best is premium P2P RU), company is quite good at addressing some issues game had, but cash shop is fraud... They are greedy AF and they refuse to comunicate at all... Thats why many people are afraid of AA2 incoming...Their hands are full with release and its problems now, since team si pretty small, but regardless... They hope people will somehow get used to KR prices, while seeing how cheap RU is right next to them... Even when they were forced to climb a (small) paywall to play in the first place...

Umm, we don't have the same prices as KR. for example, outfits there cost 440 pearls, meaning about 40€ with their exchange rate. and we have them cost like 29€ or something.

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Umm, we don't have the same prices as KR. for example, outfits there cost 440 pearls, meaning about 40€ with their exchange rate. and we have them cost like 29€ or something.

I'd have to find it, but someone did a break down on this with several costumes and items, and with exchange rates it was the same, give or take a few USD. I don't know about Euros/Pounds, but USD is roughly the same. Less in some places, more in others. Again, I don't have it off-hand, but it was one of the huge posts in General, I believe. Essentially, we are paying the same - except for the extra $30-$However much Conquest costs in the West to get into the game at all.

Honestly, if they just gave us the amount of DC that is equivalent to what we bought, +$10 - +$20 depending on the version we bought, I'd be fine. I'd consider a F2P game with a buy-in, but you get your money back. As it stands, it is pretty unfair.

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Posted

@PM_Belsazar Get into touch with this thread please. Prices are ridiculous! Wont pay a single euro for the cash shop. 

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Posted

Umm, we don't have the same prices as KR. for example, outfits there cost 440 pearls, meaning about 40€ with their exchange rate. and we have them cost like 29€ or something.

The pearl prices are different, but the pearls are cheaper to buy. People jumped to conclusions at the launch of the game defending it because the "Pearl" costs were half the price. But you get twice as many pearls in KR for the equivalent exchange. Meaning, the prices are the same.

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Posted

I've seen quite a few players say that BDO is a Mercedes in comparison to other MMO's, thus any pricing is warranted. Quite a few people are beyond stupid.

Game's worth whatever people are willing to pay for it though and plenty of people bought it. Until sales drop off don't expect this game to go F2P, and I wouldn't even bother waiting for CS prices to drop. The game will go F2P eventually and because of that the CS won't change. 

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Posted

The pearl prices are different, but the pearls are cheaper to buy. People jumped to conclusions at the launch of the game defending it because the "Pearl" costs were half the price. But you get twice as many pearls in KR for the equivalent exchange. Meaning, the prices are the same.

I've heard somewhere that 1€/£/$ would be about 10 pearls in KR.  Then those 40 pearls would be extra, when they buy 400 pearls. But i'm not sure of that information, it could also be wrong.

I'd have to find it, but someone did a break down on this with several costumes and items, and with exchange rates it was the same, give or take a few USD. I don't know about Euros/Pounds, but USD is roughly the same. Less in some places, more in others. Again, I don't have it off-hand, but it was one of the huge posts in General, I believe. Essentially, we are paying the same - except for the extra $30-$However much Conquest costs in the West to get into the game at all.

Honestly, if they just gave us the amount of DC that is equivalent to what we bought, +$10 - +$20 depending on the version we bought, I'd be fine. I'd consider a F2P game with a buy-in, but you get your money back. As it stands, it is pretty unfair.

Yeah they put it like that USD/Euro/Pounds are same thing. What is most unfair for British people who use pounds as currency, because 30£ is roughly $45, and 50£ is $75. Not that bad for Euro users like me, 30€ is about $33 and 50€ about $55. 

But now to the point. They have more P2W items in the cash shop in KR, all i'm hoping is that they wont put them to NA/EU. Aaand i've forgot my point...

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Posted

Purchased the Conqueror's Edition of this game, which gave me a pre-order costume set and another costume set with the pearls I got with the pre-order and the current cash shop sale that's going about. While a lot of the pre-order additions are nice, they aren't actually much in the long run.

There is a lot of content that's only obtainable from the cash shop, which is fairly disappointing. Cash shop prices are expensive too, and the character customization seems to be lacking at the expense that you must spend real money to make your character feel "unique" or "cool".

Things NEED to change. Keep threads like these alive, please. Put the developers more on notice of these changes that need to happen.

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Posted

Have to agree, I also got the Conqueror pack but as the costume is locked to a single class I feel it was a total waste of money. It feels more like we have a F2P game that we had to buy to play.

Release the outfit to any class on that account would be more in line with a B2P feature and reduce the cash shop items to be more in line with a B2P model. 

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Posted

Agreed

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Posted

My brain is in stunlock over what they have done, or rather NOT done with the weps/armour. Getting steadily better looking armour from looting dead monsters is RPG 101 stuff.  Its great to see your character who starts with set of rags slowly get better gear, if anything its a visual representation of time played.  Thing is my wizard who really does start in just plain white rags is STILL in those exact same clothes 19 levels on.  My staff has had 2 upgradesand they were sorta what u want but after seeing vids of wizards much farther in the game and looking no different? This is absurd and how they didnt catch this is mind blowing.

I already payed, I hate costume anyway. I want better gear with better stats that look the part. Not gonna just by a costume that looks cool. No fun in that, not cuz im cheap. I get zero satisfaction from just buying a costume that does nothing to my character. This whole trend is something I just cant understand. At which point did it all change to costumes?

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Posted

i think it would be useful if they could put on a costume and a pair of underwear free on the shop. It would be fair; With future patches will get a lot more, and so why not put also some basic free.

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My brain is in stunlock over what they have done, or rather NOT done with the weps/armour. Getting steadily better looking armour from looting dead monsters is RPG 101 stuff.  Its great to see your character who starts with set of rags slowly get better gear, if anything its a visual representation of time played.  Thing is my wizard who really does start in just plain white rags is STILL in those exact same clothes 19 levels on.  My staff has had 2 upgradesand they were sorta what u want but after seeing vids of wizards much farther in the game and looking no different? This is absurd and how they didnt catch this is mind blowing.

I already payed, I hate costume anyway. I want better gear with better stats that look the part. Not gonna just by a costume that looks cool. No fun in that, not cuz im cheap. I get zero satisfaction from just buying a costume that does nothing to my character. This whole trend is something I just cant understand. At which point did it all change to costumes?

I'm so in it with you !... and men can I understand this awful trend with costumes, da hell !!?? srsly :/

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