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vigor system Vigor/Energy System [DETAILED Breakdown]


Vigor System   596 votes

  1. 1. Do you want to have Vigor Points consumed for professions like, chopping fire wood, creating potions etc?

    • Yes, it makes the game more realistic.
      130
    • No. Please remove it.
      429
    • I don't care dude, lol.
      37

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

191 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Hello me friends, 

I am really trying to give my best to explain my concern about the vigor/energy system too you.

First off all, i have been playing on Korean Server for quite a time now and i am comparing EU/NA experience with Korean one.

  • I have been grinding from 15-50 (I wont go further than 50 here) on korean server 
  • After level 50 i have been solely doing <Black Spirit> Quests
  • Currently have 130 Vigor
  • Currently have 120 Contribution Points
  • For this topic we will go with only 100 Vigor Points to simplify things. 100 Vigor Points do take 5 hours or, 300 minutes or, 18000 seconds to restore from 0-100.
  • Also don't forget that you can restore your Vigor Points faster while in bed or with "p2w" items from the CashShop, we don't take those options in this topic also.
  • All my numbers are the worst case scenario of looting and badluck.

After 2 weeks off only crafting beer (because i wanted too) i haven't been above "Skilled LV. 7" in cooking. Take note that you can reach "GURU" Level which is ABOVE Master LV. 25

If we now take the fact that someone is max. level (Lv 50,99%) and begins to push his/her professions you are basically screwed in multiply ways

  1. You can't because you need a lot of questing before you can really start push something. Also the higher your profession level the longer it takes to level up
  2. If you want to level up your node to increase the luck chance, nope. Not going to happen, you have to chose between either having your professions or going with nodes.
  3. Let's pretend you own a few farms for Wheat and you are about to make some Beer, it takes you a ridiclious amout of replenish time to even have enough for around ~20 workers.

Let's get started with some Alchemy! Or more on how the Vigor System works.

  • Vigor Points to craft someting/talk to npcs/gather something
  • each action/ 1 point
    • 1 point takes 3 minutes before you can re-use it on something

498028ac29e851f5bc3fae801498f818.png    

Elixir of Life

Pretending to create 1(one) "Elixir of Life" as example, i show you how much off work it is with the current system.

Here you can take a look at, what it takes to create 1(one) potion.

513c84947e5bf80341411727eef311e8.png

Lets go ahead and gather "5 fox blood". Either kill foxes and hope for the blood or use a tool which you can buy to "skin" them and gather it. 1 skin usage costs 1 Vigor Point. (5 Vigor Points).

Next step is to gather Silver Azalea, as i said earlier we consider our luck as the worst and have to use another 3 Vigor Points to gain 5-7 Silver Azalea (3 Vigor Points)

Now we have the Silver Azalea and the Fox Blood we can go to the vendor and buy 3 small health potions. On the last part we have to head back to our alchemy tool.

We are going to craft 1(one) "Pure powdered Reagent"  now

17940fb3ed6fb9dad715df0ad7bbf103.png

  1. Go to the merchant and buy 1 sugar
  2. Lets pretend we have had bad luck here and have no more silver azalea left from our gather tour (1 Vigor Point)
  3. Gather 1 Weed (1 Vigor Point)
  4. Buy an empty bottle, go to a river and fill it up. (1 Vigor Point)
  5. Use "Thinning" to get purified Water (1 Vigor Point)
  6. Create "Pure Powdered Reagent" (1 Vigor Point)

Let's sum this up. 13 Vigor Points for 1 potion. 39! minutes restore time. Let that sink in. Holy s*** you might think, but wait..there is more...

Alchemy Stone

Alchemy stones are a way to enhance your character even more. Only requirement to create one is that you have a certain level off alchemy skill. (haha)

Anyway, lets get started. This is what you need to create 1(one) random alchemy stones, there are 3 in total, but that is another topic you can look yourself into.

78fd1472b50c022afc54cdbe0f2d96ea.png

 

cae5d5e6a84075f01caa417fe921e3c6.png

  1. First off all you have to buy 1 empty bottle of the merchant to gather 1 Bottle of Water from a river (1 Vigor Point).
  2. Next step is to use "Thinning" to get "Purified Water" (1 Vigor Point)
  3. Now you need to put 1 Salt (bought from merchant), 1 Sunrise Herb (1 Vigor Point), 1 Weed (1 Vigor Point) and 1 Purified Water (done in step2) to create 1 "Clear Liquid Reagent" (1 Vigor Point)

As you can see creating 1(one) "Clear Liquid Reagent" takes up 5 Vigor Points (15 minutes restore time). But we need 14. 14? You might wonder, yes - "Blood of the Sinner" also requires "Clear Liquid Reagent". (70 Vigor Points - 210min restore time)

a7c8dd228a8ecf58aa26b51d5b7e2911.png

Not to mention that you have to gather "5 Deer Blood" again which can take up to 3 Vigor Points again! (3 Vigor Points)

Luckily for us, there is more! You haven't forgot about our "Pure powdered Reagent" process yet, havent you?!

17940fb3ed6fb9dad715df0ad7bbf103.png

  1. Go to the merchant and buy 1 sugar
  2. Lets pretend we have had bad luck here and have no more silver azalea left from our gather tour (1 Vigor Point)
  3. Gather 1 Weed (1 Vigor Point)
  4. Buy an empty bottle, go to a river and fill it up. (1 Vigor Point)
  5. Use "Thinning" to get purified Water (1 Vigor Point)
  6. Create "Pure Powdered Reagent" (1 Vigor Point)

Which are again 45 Vigor Points (45 Vigor Points - 135min restore time).

Ok. That was quite a lot to read and look it, i will sum it up for you.

Create 1(one) alchemy stone requires you to have 118 Vigor Points!!! 

Conclusion

Please don't take this system into the EU/NA release. The russians are having troubles with it and it just works perfectly on the korean servers. I am perfectly fine with the usage of it to write in the channel chat etc.. Just dont put it into the profession system like it is now.

---------------------------

If you find any flaws in my calculations or anything which is written in incomprehensible english. Please send me a message or post down below, i will read all your concerns.

Thanks for reading - have a nice day :)

Off Topic: I like the increased level curve. It really takes now quite more time to level up :) Love it

 

 

 

Edited by Naeko
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Posted (edited)

Thank you for making this it saves me the time of having to do it.

Almost everything in this game uses Vigor/Energy and adding it onto professions is just a slap in the face to get more people to buy the potions on the cash shop.

The excuse that its to "balance" the economy is a terrible excuse because prices are already determined so just adjust market prices if that such a huge concern.

Edited by Xlore
16 people like this

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Posted

Almost everything in this game uses Vigor/Energy and adding it onto professions is just a slap in the face to get more people to buy the potions on the cash shop.

The excuse that its to "balance" the economy is a terrible excuse because prices are already determined so just adjust market prices if that such a huge concern.

Indeed. Well it could be used to have people buy their Cash Shop items but i dont want to insinuate something towards this direction.

Thanks for reading it !:)

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Posted

Great job going into great detail on this subject. It honestly needs to be removed from professions. If they think it will make people buy more energy/vigor potions in the cash shop it won't work. It will be a slap in the face and many will jump ship quickly. It's unnecessary for professions, you can keep it on the chat and everything else. I don't want another lousy AA labor point system again. Especially if im already buying to play this game  

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Posted

Only change needed is for processing to no require energy. Also you left out the fact that many quests actually restore your energy, so active questing will speed up your energy regen.

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Posted

Only change needed is for processing to no require energy. Also you left out the fact that many quests actually restore your energy, so active questing will speed up your energy regen.

Well as i said (not exactly the part with the quest) i assume all the numbers by just have the restore time standing ingame, or doing thinigs. No cashshop items or anything else.

Well, not only for processing it is annoying also for cooking, you dont just cook 1 item and you are done for a week, you need A LOT of food later on

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Posted

Please remove it. Please remove it. Please remove it. Please remove it. The way it is in Korea right now is one of the strongest points of the vigor/energy system. Pulling an Archeage just to cash in on the whales is just not gonna work. I'd also love to invite everyone to post about it and vote and be vocal about this issue. Some of you may not have tried the korean version, but I can guarantee that the system feels much much better.

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Posted

Remove vigor/energy systems!

thank you!

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Posted

I don't want another Archeage-- It's like being punished for playing the game. Uh oh I am out of labor, now I can't play the game -_- its such a buzzkill.

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Posted

bump

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Posted

Im also for removing or atleast drastically changing the energy-system.
I have have to spent atleast 30 bucks to buy this game, and still get a restraining.
It's okay for me, if you only would use that only for the Housing / Vigor system, so it cant be exploited or something like that (if it can't be removed because of the gameplay-side of things)

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Posted

Remove it!

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Posted

I really hope that people will wake up and start talking about that issue. Maybe everyone is just too busy playing the game to give feedback. OP should totally emphasize on the fact that the Korean version and the Japanese version don't have an energy cost on processing and how much better the flow of processing large amounts of mats feels. Put it in bold or something so that everyone knows that there's already a better system in place.

Energy is now required for Production, Cooking and Alchemy. This was done to balance the economical gain between Life and Combat content. Professions will take more time to level up, and Energy costs will prevent saturating the market with materials and products, to better balance supply and demand.

Since the prices were already set for everything in the game, it really feels like this is just an excuse and that the real reason for this change is just to sell those vigor potions from the cash shop. If if won't offer such potions, then there is no reason for any of the processing skills to be costing energy.

Energy cost on some things is completely fine. Energy costs on everything is just wrong.

Also, if people are gonna talk about energy cost for chatting, they need to be aware that it's only for the global chat.

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Posted

I really hope that people will wake up and start talking about that issue. Maybe everyone is just too busy playing the game to give feedback.

Kind of what i expected and i bet the devs are relying on. People are just not going to have enough time with these couple days beta's and no long open beta to fully explore the crafting systems.

Such a shame this game is going to get shit on and compared to archeage... this isn't the game i played on KR server.

If all you want to do is grinding combat, your fine but the game has so much more that this limits you from doing.

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Posted

Please Please Please use the KR Crafting or at least adjust the market prices.... i love to craft and gather when i'm bored with grinding, with this in place right now gathering/crafting is frustrating and almost pointless.

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Posted

Eliminate energy completely.  Pointless mechanic.

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Posted

Eliminate energy completely.  Pointless mechanic.

And suddenly the small reason you have to do talk to npcs, explore, and do things other than killing goes out the window.

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Posted (edited)

And suddenly the small reason you have to do talk to npcs, explore, and do things other than killing goes out the window.

Hmm, odd.  Seems like I still need to talk to NPCs to gain knowledge and explore the world to find the NPCs, and the chains to unlock more NPCs and more options would still be there.  The difference is there wouldn't be a cap and I wouldn't have to sit around for 10 minutes between playing a conversation minigame to unlock a quest.  So, I would actually argue there's MORE reason for me to talk to them, since there's an actual point and it's not "oh, I guess in 20 minutes when I have enough energy I might be able to get a quest from this guy... If i'm lucky at the RNG minigame."

My favorite was when it cost me about 20 energy to learn about 8 paragraphs of lore.

No.  my experience thus far is energy makes me NOT want to talk to NPCs and NOT want to try to play the conversation minigame to try to unlock quests, because there's always the constant fear of "What if I need that energy for something else."  It's a bad system and it needs either a ground up rework or to be completely gutted.

 

Edited by AtmaTheWanderer
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Posted (edited)

Hmm, odd.  Seems like I still need to talk to NPCs to gain knowledge and explore the world to find the NPCs in the chains to unlock more NPCs and more options would still be there.  The difference is there wouldn't be a cap and I wouldn't have to sit around for 10 minutes between playing a conversation minigame to unlock a quest.  So, I would actually argue there's MORE reason for me to talk to them, since there's an actual point and it's not "oh, I guess in 20 minutes when I have enough energy I might be able to get a quest from this guy... If i'm lucky at the RNG minigame."

 

You do know that knowledge's only role is to increase you vigor pool right (well for mobs it helps drop rate but you get that just by killing mobs). With no vigor pool, there is no need to gather knowledge. People would still ignore the conversation mingame without vigor in game. Further after playing for awhile, vigor doesn't become much of a problem at all. Also, if you wait around you are not maximizing your vigor regen. Many quests help regen your vigor.

Edited by Noth
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Posted

That does not seem to be my experience.  Many NPCs seem to have quests buried underneath conversation, and without the knowledge you can't access that conversation, and thus can't get that quest.  If you lack the knowledge to be able to fill the circles in the Minigame, you can't even start the conversation and thus can't potentially access that quest.

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Posted

That does not seem to be my experience.  Many NPCs seem to have quests buried underneath conversation, and without the knowledge you can't access that conversation, and thus can't get that quest.  If you lack the knowledge to be able to fill the circles in the Minigame, you can't even start the conversation and thus can't potentially access that quest.

And those quests will be just as ignored with or without vigor in game.

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bump

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And those quests will be just as ignored with or without vigor in game.

My point is that your statement that removes the incentive to talk to NPCs and explore is not true.  The amount of energy you get from randomly talking to an NPC who happens to give you energy right off the bat is negligible.  It's like saying "Well, sometimes the game gives you an ibuprofen after repeatedly bashing you in the head."

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My point is that your statement that removes the incentive to talk to NPCs and explore is not true.  The amount of energy you get from randomly talking to an NPC who happens to give you energy right off the bat is negligible.  It's like saying "Well, sometimes the game gives you an ibuprofen after repeatedly bashing you in the head."

Since people ignore those buried quests, yes, the vigor pool is the main reason people talk to NPCs.

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