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End game PVP balance?

15 posts in this topic

Posted

So after spent 20 some hours on 2 classes - (lvl 25 zerker lvl 21 sor) I'm very concerned about endgame PVP balance.  Because from what i can see from my limited experience, some classes are just too mobile and have too many aresenal against other classes

zerker for example, it doesn't start feel right till lvl 15 after you learned some useful skills and combos, you still have to dive into enemy to do dmg, I can see most of his grabbing combos are hard CCs and designed for 1 vs 1 pvp, but his other combat aresneal is not nearly as efficient as my sor, he's a slow character and most of his combos attacks are pretty stationary and slow, his envsion skill takes stamina, although he will  have no problem take down waves of mobs and such, but I knew if someone use zerkers attack/skills on my sor, he'd probably never able to land a hit on me before i kited him to death 

My sor on the other hand has scary good combat arsenal, can both melee and range,  good evsion skills with no cool down or penalty, down F, side slide + place for example can be spammed infinitely if I want a safety at all time fight, also, his range attack has slow downs, drain HPs, dot damage etc, when doing grinding missions, I rare ever had to use a single mana/hp potion. I have a hard time to think how another class can overcome that.  

So again, from my limited experience, I see some classes have way too many combat arsenal than the others.  I want some feedbacks from vets and experienced PVPers, how endgame pvp is different? (mainly 1vs1 wise)

 

Thanks

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Posted

I can only speak from sorc perspective.

I feel like my skills are really fcking hard to avoid and burst is top notch to score the kill on CC. Compared to other classes stuff is kinda easy to avoid

Warriors: Even if I get cc'd by them and they "burst" on me the dmg is laughable.

Zerkers: They can do insanely long CC chain on you but same problem as warrior. 0 dmg

Wiz: Been one shot by wiz few times. Mostly they're really immobile and easy to catch and squishy as hell. Pretty easy to deal with but can punish you.

Sorc: Scary if you get CC'd by one and they land spells/skills on you. 

Ranger: Haven't met that many good rangers. Only died once to one as I didn't see him 1 shotting me. Super scary burst potential and harder to catch than wiz

Tamer: Can spam evasion 3-4x more than sorc. Can't burst in one CC if pet is next to you as it will turn the tides and u end up being the one in CC.

Valk: Alot better than warrior. Faster CC/Harder to avoid. Can burst decent amount. 

 

T1: Sorc, Ranger

T1.5 Tamer

T2 Wiz, Valk

Tier shit: War & Zerker

 

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Posted

Not all classes are even supposed to all fit into 1v1 environments. This game isnt about 1v1 so balancing around it doesnt make much sense. That being said, a skilled player can still win most 1v1 situations, especially if he isnt limited to a small arena but a broader area. Biggest problem right now is the CC patch that was supposed to get rid of Awakening weapons being so strong. Right now our version already runs the CC patch but not the Awakening weapons, which makes Ranger even stronger and Warrior/Giant weaker because they heavily rely on CC chains until they get access to the second set of items.

 

T1: Sorc, Ranger

T1.5 Tamer

T2 Wiz, Valk

Tier shit: War & Zerker

Ranger and Valk have been the strongest clean 1v1 classes in the game forever. Blader also is up there. Either of these classes will shit on an equally geared and skilled Sorceress in our and the KR version. Worst part is that Valk will only get stronger as soon as she has access to her lance. Shes already shitting on the majority of the cast without it.

Tamer is bottom of the barrel tier with the current movement nerfs. The class has  hardly any ways to approach the target at this point and her skill set is borderline trash to defend herself, not even gonna start on potato AI Heilang. To put it simple: your list has a bunch of severe issues. If anything it should look like this.

1) Current version with Tamer movement nerfs and CC patch: S Ranger, Valk A Sorc B Giant C Wiz, Tamer, Warrior

2) See above + awakening weapons: S Ranger, Valk A Warrior A- Sorc B Giant C Wiz, Tamer (most likely since its still unclear how weapons will pan out, Tamer might go up a notch because the staff partially gets rid of the mobility issues)

3) See above + rest classes: S Ranger, Blader, Valk A Warrior A- Ninja, Sorc B Giant C Wiz, Tamer (see above)

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Posted (edited)

Not all classes are even supposed to all fit into 1v1 environments. This game isnt about 1v1 so balancing around it doesnt make much sense. That being said, a skilled player can still win most 1v1 situations, especially if he isnt limited to a small arena but a broader area. Biggest problem right now is the CC patch that was supposed to get rid of Awakening weapons being so strong. Right now our version already runs the CC patch but not the Awakening weapons, which makes Ranger even stronger and Warrior/Giant weaker because they heavily rely on CC chains until they get access to the second set of items.

 

Ranger and Valk have been the strongest clean 1v1 classes in the game forever. Blader also is up there. Either of these classes will shit on an equally geared and skilled Sorceress in our and the KR version. Worst part is that Valk will only get stronger as soon as she has access to her lance. Shes already shitting on the majority of the cast without it.

Tamer is bottom of the barrel tier with the current movement nerfs. The class has  hardly any ways to approach the target at this point and her skill set is borderline trash to defend herself, not even gonna start on potato AI Heilang. To put it simple: your list has a bunch of severe issues. If anything it should look like this.

1) Current version with Tamer movement nerfs and CC patch: S Ranger, Valk A Sorc B Giant C Wiz, Tamer, Warrior

2) See above + awakening weapons: S Ranger, Valk A Warrior A- Sorc B Giant C Wiz, Tamer (most likely since its still unclear how weapons will pan out, Tamer might go up a notch because the staff partially gets rid of the mobility issues)

3) See above + rest classes: S Ranger, Blader, Valk A Warrior A- Ninja, Sorc B Giant C Wiz, Tamer (see above)

Reading your post I have to think that awakened weapons are stronger than normal ones, aren't it? (I'm newbie here :P)

Edited by Edremis

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Posted

I can only speak from sorc perspective.

I feel like my skills are really fcking hard to avoid and burst is top notch to score the kill on CC. Compared to other classes stuff is kinda easy to avoid

Warriors: Even if I get cc'd by them and they "burst" on me the dmg is laughable.

Zerkers: They can do insanely long CC chain on you but same problem as warrior. 0 dmg

Wiz: Been one shot by wiz few times. Mostly they're really immobile and easy to catch and squishy as hell. Pretty easy to deal with but can punish you.

Sorc: Scary if you get CC'd by one and they land spells/skills on you. 

Ranger: Haven't met that many good rangers. Only died once to one as I didn't see him 1 shotting me. Super scary burst potential and harder to catch than wiz

Tamer: Can spam evasion 3-4x more than sorc. Can't burst in one CC if pet is next to you as it will turn the tides and u end up being the one in CC.

Valk: Alot better than warrior. Faster CC/Harder to avoid. Can burst decent amount. 

 

T1: Sorc, Ranger

T1.5 Tamer

T2 Wiz, Valk

Tier shit: War & Zerker

 

Thanks for your input, I take that you are a lvl 50? 

It's kind sad that it basically confirmed my early game impression and speculation, I really wanted to main zerker, but looks like the flashy combat move for each class really isn't well designed for PVP balance as priority  my zerker consume alot potions in every battle due to the lack of mobility and high HP pool.  Can't believe they let some classes have envsion/dodging move Sor/tammer without a proper cool down system. 

I will hit 50 to get more insight, but as of now, it's little disappointing. 

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Posted

Reading your post I have to think that awakened weapons are stronger than normal ones, aren't it? (I'm newbie here :P)

Their goal is to compensate for the classes weaknesses. Warrior gets a shit ton of damage from his 2H sword, Sorc gets more AoE from her Scythe, Tamer apparently some mobility to make up for the mobility they just removed and so on. The weapons are just an addition to your tool set, you can switch them mid fight, between animations even. They dont take anything, they just add. The CC patch was specifically introduced to compensate for Warrior being so damn strong with the Awakening being available to him.

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Posted

Not all classes are even supposed to all fit into 1v1 environments. This game isnt about 1v1 so balancing around it doesnt make much sense. That being said, a skilled player can still win most 1v1 situations, especially if he isnt limited to a small arena but a broader area. Biggest problem right now is the CC patch that was supposed to get rid of Awakening weapons being so strong. Right now our version already runs the CC patch but not the Awakening weapons, which makes Ranger even stronger and Warrior/Giant weaker because they heavily rely on CC chains until they get access to the second set of items.

 

Ranger and Valk have been the strongest clean 1v1 classes in the game forever. Blader also is up there. Either of these classes will shit on an equally geared and skilled Sorceress in our and the KR version. Worst part is that Valk will only get stronger as soon as she has access to her lance. Shes already shitting on the majority of the cast without it.

Tamer is bottom of the barrel tier with the current movement nerfs. The class has  hardly any ways to approach the target at this point and her skill set is borderline trash to defend herself, not even gonna start on potato AI Heilang. To put it simple: your list has a bunch of severe issues. If anything it should look like this.

1) Current version with Tamer movement nerfs and CC patch: S Ranger, Valk A Sorc B Giant C Wiz, Tamer, Warrior

2) See above + awakening weapons: S Ranger, Valk A Warrior A- Sorc B Giant C Wiz, Tamer (most likely since its still unclear how weapons will pan out, Tamer might go up a notch because the staff partially gets rid of the mobility issues)

3) See above + rest classes: S Ranger, Blader, Valk A Warrior A- Ninja, Sorc B Giant C Wiz, Tamer (see above)

lol at your tier list, please explain to me how does a valk 1v1 a sorc, or how does ranger have the upper hand vs a sorc when both are in equal terms of skill, because it's way easier to dodge the shit from a ranger as a sorc than the other way round

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Posted

Not all classes are even supposed to all fit into 1v1 environments. This game isnt about 1v1 so balancing around it doesnt make much sense. That being said, a skilled player can still win most 1v1 situations, especially if he isnt limited to a small arena but a broader area. Biggest problem right now is the CC patch that was supposed to get rid of Awakening weapons being so strong. Right now our version already runs the CC patch but not the Awakening weapons, which makes Ranger even stronger and Warrior/Giant weaker because they heavily rely on CC chains until they get access to the second set of items.

 

Ranger and Valk have been the strongest clean 1v1 classes in the game forever. Blader also is up there. Either of these classes will shit on an equally geared and skilled Sorceress in our and the KR version. Worst part is that Valk will only get stronger as soon as she has access to her lance. Shes already shitting on the majority of the cast without it.

Tamer is bottom of the barrel tier with the current movement nerfs. The class has  hardly any ways to approach the target at this point and her skill set is borderline trash to defend herself, not even gonna start on potato AI Heilang. To put it simple: your list has a bunch of severe issues. If anything it should look like this.

1) Current version with Tamer movement nerfs and CC patch: S Ranger, Valk A Sorc B Giant C Wiz, Tamer, Warrior

2) See above + awakening weapons: S Ranger, Valk A Warrior A- Sorc B Giant C Wiz, Tamer (most likely since its still unclear how weapons will pan out, Tamer might go up a notch because the staff partially gets rid of the mobility issues)

3) See above + rest classes: S Ranger, Blader, Valk A Warrior A- Ninja, Sorc B Giant C Wiz, Tamer (see above)

Interesting, so warrior used to be one of the strongest and now tank the bottom after the patch. I will need to play little more to judge myself, but as a mid 20s, mobility seem to be a balance issue worries me from my limited experience, since sor has multiple envsion/doging moves that doesn't use mana/stamina while doing dmg at same time. 

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Posted (edited)

Not all classes are even supposed to all fit into 1v1 environments. This game isnt about 1v1 so balancing around it doesnt make much sense. That being said, a skilled player can still win most 1v1 situations, especially if he isnt limited to a small arena but a broader area. Biggest problem right now is the CC patch that was supposed to get rid of Awakening weapons being so strong. Right now our version already runs the CC patch but not the Awakening weapons, which makes Ranger even stronger and Warrior/Giant weaker because they heavily rely on CC chains until they get access to the second set of items.

 

Ranger and Valk have been the strongest clean 1v1 classes in the game forever. Blader also is up there. Either of these classes will shit on an equally geared and skilled Sorceress in our and the KR version. Worst part is that Valk will only get stronger as soon as she has access to her lance. Shes already shitting on the majority of the cast without it.

Tamer is bottom of the barrel tier with the current movement nerfs. The class has  hardly any ways to approach the target at this point and her skill set is borderline trash to defend herself, not even gonna start on potato AI Heilang. To put it simple: your list has a bunch of severe issues. If anything it should look like this.

1) Current version with Tamer movement nerfs and CC patch: S Ranger, Valk A Sorc B Giant C Wiz, Tamer, Warrior

2) See above + awakening weapons: S Ranger, Valk A Warrior A- Sorc B Giant C Wiz, Tamer (most likely since its still unclear how weapons will pan out, Tamer might go up a notch because the staff partially gets rid of the mobility issues)

3) See above + rest classes: S Ranger, Blader, Valk A Warrior A- Ninja, Sorc B Giant C Wiz, Tamer (see above)

- we have awakening CC patch without awakening wapons, this changes balance severely. Valk 100-0 Combo does not work as easily anymore.

- we have longer cooldown and less strength of pots which affects rangers the most (they are the most mana hungry class in game). Also they are extremely gear dependent, +15 will not make them op (yet).

- Valk awakening weapon skills have not been released. How do you deduct they are going to be the strongest? you simply make up things out of thin air.

- Tamer has newest buffs from Korea and we are still limited to +15 where Heilang is still useful. Might end up quite strongly.

 

Stop presenting random speculation as hard facts, our version is quite different from any other one.

 

Edited by Sumpf

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Posted (edited)

Interesting, so warrior used to be one of the strongest and now tank the bottom after the patch. I will need to play little more to judge myself, but as a mid 20s, mobility seem to be a balance issue worries me from my limited experience, since sor has multiple envsion/doging moves that doesn't use mana/stamina while doing dmg at same time. 

Warrior simply was able to CC chain Sorc and kill her quickly, thats all there was to it. But due to the patch he cant do that anymore which means hes completely -----ed because he relied on CC which they took from him and gave nothing in return.

lol at your tier list, please explain to me how does a valk 1v1 a sorc, or how does ranger have the upper hand vs a sorc when both are in equal terms of skill, because it's way easier to dodge the shit from a ranger as a sorc than the other way round

Valk has both the highest burst and defense in the game and a very well known 100 to 0 combo. Thats harder to pull off in our version, sure, but due to increased pot times she also has more time to utilize on the fact that youre now on low health. Sorceress if a melee ranged hybrid with a heavy emphasis on the first so good luck exploiting Valks mobility issues by simply staying away. It doesnt work against a competent player, especially not in a limited arena.

As for the Ranger bit: Youre either incredibly incompent or play against complete slobs. Wouldnt surprise me if you werent even level 51+ yet. Ranger basically ignores AP and can just go health and crit and kill you with hardly any effort. You have to pray the the 25% knockdown resistance gems actually proc and save you from getting borderline globaled by a Liverto Ranger. If you have easier time dodging Sorceress skills than Evasive Explosive shot then I really wonder what sort of people youre playing against.

- we have awakening CC patch without awakening wapons, this changes balance severely. Valk 100-0 Combo does not work as easily anymore.

 Not as easily but with proper gear still can and due to the increased pot times you cant heal up as quickly if you survive. Its a double edged sword.

- we have longer cooldown and less strength of pots which affects rangers the most (they are the most mana hungry class in game). Also they are extremely gear dependent, +15 will not make them op.

And every single Ranger will trade longer pot CDs for the CC changes that make her even more broken than she was before. It doesnt matter if they are gear dependent, thats part of the game.

- Valk awakening weapon skills have not been released. How do you deduct they are going to be the strongest? you simply make up things out of thin air.

Atrocious reading comprehension skills. I said that Valk already shits on the majority of the cast in 1v1 situation and her Awakening weapon will only make her stronger. Even if its the weakest in the game it will still not make her worse. Not with a single syllable did I claim for her Lance to be the strongest weapon in the game.

- Tamer has newest buffs from Korea and we are still limited to +15 where Heilang is still useful. Might end up quite strongly.

And they just robbed her of her mobility by putting a hidden CD on dodge and removing shift+m1 as a long distance mobility option. Last time I checked she is left with nothing now. Good luck approaching opponents, getting in and out of combat without spamming dash. Their problem isnt damage, it never really was. Its the fact that they need to find ways to even reach the opponent when they want to.

Stop presenting random speculation as hard facts, our version is quite different from any other one.

Take a class in basic English.

Edited by nyyyyy

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Posted

I'd say this game is pretty balanced in PVP currently, classes good in 1v1 are OK in pitched battle GVG/Siege pvp, and classes good in GVG/Siege are only OK in 1v1. Ranger probably being the exception.

Zerker for example is mediocre in 1v1 but top shelf in mass PvP according to my youtube wikipedia inventing research.

Zerkers basically super armor charge into enemy lines where squishies are and start CC'ing, it doesn't matter if you aren't doing instakilling damage, your team mates pick off these easy high priority targets.

Same with wizards pretty bad in 1v1 unless they catch you out, but in mass PvP, there are targets galore and their ranged AoE will flat out ruin people.

The 'meta' in mass endgame pvp is Zerker charge/Valkyrie follow up into enemy lines with Wizard/Ranger ranged damage coming in. Sorcs suffer in this environment due to weak hp/defense and melt under any focus fire, they are mainly used to pick off targets on the edge or stragglers. Tamers suffer due to their pets just getting melted. Warriors suffer like sorcs, they fall too easily in enemy lines.

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Posted

 

Warrior simply was able to CC chain Sorc and kill her quickly, thats all there was to it. But due to the patch he cant do that anymore which means hes completely -----ed because he relied on CC which they took from him and gave nothing in return.

 

Valk has both the highest burst and defense in the game and a very well known 100 to 0 combo. Thats harder to pull off in our version, sure, but due to increased pot times she also has more time to utilize on the fact that youre now on low health. Sorceress if a melee ranged hybrid with a heavy emphasis on the first so good luck exploiting Valks mobility issues by simply staying away. It doesnt work against a competent player, especially not in a limited arena.

As for the Ranger bit: Youre either incredibly incompent or play against complete slobs. Wouldnt surprise me if you werent even level 51+ yet. Ranger basically ignores AP and can just go health and crit and kill you with hardly any effort. You have to pray the the 25% knockdown resistance gems actually proc and save you from getting borderline globaled by a Liverto Ranger. If you have easier time dodging Sorceress skills than Evasive Explosive shot then I really wonder what sort of people youre playing against.

 

mate you sound like you're utter trash at the game, the kinda player who thinks that having +15 gear will carry his sorry ass in PvP because he doesn't even know what to do; first of all I wasn't talking about a 1v1 arena scenario, of course in an arena valk has the upper hand, a sorc relies on kiting you for the cds, which is way harder to pull off in the arena, but still doable.

 

as for your shit tier mechanics where you can't dodge explosive evasive which is one of the most obvious skills in the game because he'll use it to disengage from melee i can't add anything but pity you on your poor capability to predict the enemy's movements

 

i bet you've been 9x times duelist in wow and silver5 in league and shit like that, which explains a lot about the points you're stating, trash will always be trash lmao

 

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Posted

  Follow Korea and you will see whats ahead of you...   

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if you are giving opinions on pvp (45+) off of a leveling experience from 1-20 you are going to be hit by a surprise , zerk grabs are at the best in group combat when the person being grabbed can be nuked and is unable to do anything, lots of classes dont really open up untill 35+

etc........

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Endgame balance is not based on class, but your PvX ways to sustain yourself through upgrading gear and enchanting to stay competitve.

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