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What other game's PvE did you like, and would be better with BDO combat?

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Posted

I'm curious what other MMOs people played, which PvE content they really liked from those MMOs, and that they think would be a really fun experience using BDO's combat system. I'll use a couple examples from the FF series:

From FFXIV, the best content was definitely the trial fights, where it was 8 people vs. one of the classic summons, like Ramuh, or Shiva. These fights were really fun, well designed, and challenging, with multiple mechanics, exciting environments, and amazing music. I'd love to see epic battles like this, tailored for a more action oriented combat system. If you'd never seen it, I'd recommend checking out some videos. (I wouldn't really recommend playing the game though... tab targeting... blah.)

From FFXI, a system that would probably be better here than there (with adjustments, naturally) was the Notorious Monster system. Special named monsters would spawn under certain conditions. Like a giant scorpion might spawn in the desert when there's a certain weather condition, or an orc boss might have a chance to spawn when killing normal orcs. These Notorious Monsters (NMs) often had special loot, unique items with desirable stats and/or special properties, and you had to hit them first in order to claim them. There were tons of NMs all over the world, so plenty of reasons to hunt in the wild for special monsters if they had an item you wanted. Naturally there were also world boss type NMs (HNMs) like a giant dragon in an underground tomb that was surrounded by (and constantly spawned more) incredibly dangerous undead monsters that your guild had to keep killing while the rest of your guild fought the dragon.

So, yeah, just curious what other kinds of MMOs you folks liked, and what kind of PvE you thought was really good, etc.

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Posted

I know this is probably never going to happen, but I want large raids with complex mechanics and roles for certain classes instead of just the spam DPS system in place right now

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Posted

monster hunter AI, really like that one 

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BDO combat system works very similar to Vindictus/ Mabinogi Heroes, just needs to be even more responsive and complex.

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Posted (edited)

BDO combat system works very similar to Vindictus/ Mabinogi Heroes, just needs to be even more responsive and complex.

As a fellow Vindictus player, I can confirm this.

The PvE juice BDO needs is more depth for bosses for instance. More moves, different counter-moves etc.

3 different moves for a boss was enough to keep so many players on the floor in vindictus, should not be too hard for DAUM to implement something like that here haha :P

Edited by LoneWolf
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Posted

I'm curious what other MMOs people played, which PvE content they really liked from those MMOs, and that they think would be a really fun experience using BDO's combat system. I'll use a couple examples from the FF series:

From FFXIV, the best content was definitely the trial fights, where it was 8 people vs. one of the classic summons, like Ramuh, or Shiva. These fights were really fun, well designed, and challenging, with multiple mechanics, exciting environments, and amazing music. I'd love to see epic battles like this, tailored for a more action oriented combat system. If you'd never seen it, I'd recommend checking out some videos. (I wouldn't really recommend playing the game though... tab targeting... blah.)

From FFXI, a system that would probably be better here than there (with adjustments, naturally) was the Notorious Monster system. Special named monsters would spawn under certain conditions. Like a giant scorpion might spawn in the desert when there's a certain weather condition, or an orc boss might have a chance to spawn when killing normal orcs. These Notorious Monsters (NMs) often had special loot, unique items with desirable stats and/or special properties, and you had to hit them first in order to claim them. There were tons of NMs all over the world, so plenty of reasons to hunt in the wild for special monsters if they had an item you wanted. Naturally there were also world boss type NMs (HNMs) like a giant dragon in an underground tomb that was surrounded by (and constantly spawned more) incredibly dangerous undead monsters that your guild had to keep killing while the rest of your guild fought the dragon.

So, yeah, just curious what other kinds of MMOs you folks liked, and what kind of PvE you thought was really good, etc.

the only reason why I couldnt stand FFXIV is the combat. so yeah,bdo combat+ffxiv would be awesome PvE game.

I also liked Aion's PvE. Exspecially Dredgion, a PvPvE instance where you competed with a different group. So Aion+BDO Combat

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Posted

monster hunter AI, really like that one 

The best PvE game around. Monster Hunter for LIFE!

Nothing was more exciting for me when i played first monster hunter as a kid. I wasn't the best thats for sure and i remember making drawings of what i planned to do to take down the monsters which was hilarious to me knowing i did that now. Much passion went into that game taking to take down my first Rathalos its a day i will never forget. Been following Monster Hunter series every since. Lets hope "Monster Hunter for 3DS: Monster Hunter X" comes out in NA so i don't have to buy a Japanese 3DS to play it.

Also Alpaca!

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Posted

Age of Conan has some well done raid and 6man dungeons, would love to see that style of encounter in BDO.

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Posted

Age of Conan has some well done raid and 6man dungeons, would love to see that style of encounter in BDO.

Which server? Also did you play during the p2p era?

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Posted

Tera Queen of Argon Part2 meldita and the Core had some nice bosses would love to do manaya-chan with this combat and no real healers~

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Posted

Which server? Also did you play during the p2p era?

Played it at launch, quit for a year or so, came back was on Wiccana.  I played long enough to be one of the first few guilds on the NA servers to down the Entity in T4.  Also. ToS best class in any MMO ever.  90% of the time I was top DPS in the raid.  And I could heal!

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Posted

Was hoping you said cimmeria, I was in Legion in Flames. The roleplayer series was created on our server as well with those acolyte newbs ;D

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I really liked raiding in WoW. Swtor was also fun.

 

Combat: BnS is fast paced I also like that.

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Posted

Vindictus's Environment! Use anything you see to attack the enemy. I would keep picking up those damn rock and tossing or smashing my enemies to dust and feel proud that mother nature has helped me.

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Posted

monster hunter AI, really like that one 

This, it's all about preventing zerging, Monster Hunter does a great job of that.

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Posted

From FFXI, a system that would probably be better here than there (with adjustments, naturally) was the Notorious Monster system. Special named monsters would spawn under certain conditions. Like a giant scorpion might spawn in the desert when there's a certain weather condition, or an orc boss might have a chance to spawn when killing normal orcs. These Notorious Monsters (NMs) often had special loot, unique items with desirable stats and/or special properties, and you had to hit them first in order to claim them. There were tons of NMs all over the world, so plenty of reasons to hunt in the wild for special monsters if they had an item you wanted. Naturally there were also world boss type NMs (HNMs) like a giant dragon in an underground tomb that was surrounded by (and constantly spawned more) incredibly dangerous undead monsters that your guild had to keep killing while the rest of your guild fought the dragon.

Just posted in the "Hopes & Dreams" thread, seems like I will have to edit my entry after reading this, this is a very interesting feature to have in the game.

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Posted

I say FFonline

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Posted

Duck Hunt, pve went down hill from there.

Has such epic end game. The memories...

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Posted (edited)

aion: because the challenge of doing elite grind.

devillian (beta): because of the way you could pull in big groups of mobs and just destroy them with aoe.

GW2: because the auto events made it feel like the world was alive and there was always a place where something interesting was going on and the npc's needed my help ^^ (npc's felt dead though so meeh. but the automatic world event stuff was awesome.)

 

a combi of these would be preferred= big groups of weak mobs with a few very strong elites in between, which had mass agro setups and had lots of event stuff they did to life in the world.

:P

 

Edited by Tjaranis
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Posted

I just want bosses like in Vindictus, with maybe the S3 mobs. No other MMO (and even most action games in general)  have come close to the very visceral and deadly battles Vindy bosses offered. You needed to dodge, and you needed to be on your toes or risk getting 2-3 shotted by the boss. It was action combat at it's best, and I dare say it spoiled me silly combat system-wise. Few games have even come close to the satisfaction Vindy's bosses offered. If BD had such boss fights... I'd be happy to sing it praise wherever I go.

The S3 trash mobs were brutal enough with their near lock-on accuracy, and formations+shelter really made them quite dangerous in groups. It really was suicide to rashly charge into a trash mob group headfirst. I hope BD will one day have mobs at least as brutal as these, if not more. Danger should not come only from other players, but also the monsters roaming the world.

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I just want bosses like in Vindictus, with maybe the S3 mobs. No other MMO (and even most action games in general)  have come close to the very visceral and deadly battles Vindy bosses offered. You needed to dodge, and you needed to be on your toes or risk getting 2-3 shotted by the boss. It was action combat at it's best, and I dare say it spoiled me silly combat system-wise. Few games have even come close to the satisfaction Vindy's bosses offered. If BD had such boss fights... I'd be happy to sing it praise wherever I go.

The S3 trash mobs were brutal enough with their near lock-on accuracy, and formations+shelter really made them quite dangerous in groups. It really was suicide to rashly charge into a trash mob group headfirst. I hope BD will one day have mobs at least as brutal as these, if not more. Danger should not come only from other players, but also the monsters roaming the world.

somehow keaghan has wandered into BDO forums in his quest to save tieve

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Posted

 

GW2: because the auto events made it feel like the world was alive and there was always a place where something interesting was going on and the npc's needed my help ^^ (npc's felt dead though so meeh. but the automatic world event stuff was awesome.)

True, amazing experience close at launch. But try starting now - you will meet close to no one in the early maps which indeed does make the game feel death - which is a pity. The down-scaling of lvls did not really work the way it should, in terms of making everything end-game pve content what they first wanted to realize. 

I won't post a title here - but my thing would simply be a vast and never-ending world to explore and new monsters that require different tactics so now and then. 

^Jeasy

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Posted

I have 2 games in mind that would raise the PvE experience ALOT in BDO.

 

First: Monster Hunter! I think what this game makes special is, that enemies have different movement sets and combat behavior. raptors are fast and try to surround you, wihile other enemies blindly rush at you. And because of the weapon you wear, some enemies are harder then others. Raptors for example were easy to kill with fast weapons, but if you had a broad sword, you had to time your attack perfectly well. Furthermore, the boss monsters had this unique feature to run away if they lost to much health and they also changed their behavior when they were below a certain health level. The only problem I see here is, that it needs heavy programming if you want to have a highly diverse AI set for every enemy.

 

Second: Ragnarok Online! I played this game for 8 years with some friends and I really have to say, that the PvE AND PvP were great (but separated). What made Ragnarok Online so special is, that EVERY monster felt unique. You would have remembed every single enemy type you killed once. There are multiple reasons for that:

  1. Every monster had significant appearance features. The design was so unique and there were little "recolorations" from enemies. Most MMOs take the same monster over and over again and just make it darker or give it a different color. In Ragnarok Online, this rarely happened
  2. Every monster differed in it's movement pattern. I wouldn't call it AI, but what made the enemies special is, that their walkspeed and taniness differed alot. Thief bugs were mega fast with high attack speed (a real problem for mages and archers) and some were really slow, but heavy hitters/tankers (pain for close combat classes).
  3. Every monster had its own aggro code. Some were non-aggro all the time until attacked, some were all-time-aggro and attacked you when in sight range, some had a group-aggro and attack if you hit an enemy close to him, some had magic-aggro and attacked you when a skill got used close to them etc. etc. Also a combination of those is possible.
  4. Every monster had it's own loottable. No random 0815 loot, but highly specific loot just for this mob. For example, every monster had it's own monster card. These cards could be implemented into your gear. For example: A Soldier Skeleton drops a Soldier Skeleton card. You can put this card into one of your weapon slots (IF your weapon had a slot) and the card gave you +8% crit chance. Ofc the dropchance was extremely low (0,01%), so you had to kill thousands to get one. Just for cards high level players came back to low level areas just to farm soldier skeletons. But ofc they didn't drop just cards. They also dropped specific gear. THe advantage of dropped gear is, that it had slots for cards. If you buy boots from a NPC, it will have no slots. If you found boots from killing Argiopes (red worms), it would have 1 slot. And you could implement a male thief bug card into your slotted boots to get +3 Agility.

As you can see, I can still remember enemies from a game I have played years ago. I would go so far to say that I know 80% of all Ragnarok Online monsters and that I know the loottables from most of them, just because the enemies had so much personality. In games like Guild Wars 2 I kill the mobs, but I wont remember them. They drop random shit I mostly dont need and they are boring to look at. No enemy in Guild Wars 2 feels special in any way (besides the boss monsters). Take a look at this:

http://ratemyserver.net/index.php?page=re_mob_db&list=1&letter=s

You can see a list of all enemies with the letter "s" here. 10 enemies per page and 25 pages. This makes 250 enemy types with the letter s. And there are many hundred more in the other letter categories. And you can also see, that every enemy has it's own loot table. This made the game so damn special in many ways. Because of the slotted gear and the cards, the skilltree system and the stats, you could make your very own unique build and this had a huge impact on how your character works in PvP. Some were specialized in just one skill and tried to raise the dps as much as possible with this one skill and others chose to focus on multiple skills and therefore had more options to choose from when in PvP.

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Posted

Vindictus has the best combat I have seen in MMO so far. The problem was the lack of open-world and repeating dungeon design.

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Posted (edited)

Vindictus has the best combat I have seen in MMO so far. The problem was the lack of open-world and repeating dungeon design.

i disagree, it was very console like in its control, and the controls was nowhere near tight enough. trying to do fast precise movement and timings was like rolling dice to the god of luck :P you constantly had to delay everything by half a second to insure that the bad control actually did what you wanted
^^

i think that dragon nest had a LOT tighter control setup, same with C9.

Edited by Tjaranis

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