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The cash shop "issue" and the truth most dont want to hear

117 posts in this topic

Posted

 

I think it's a bit short-sighted on the user base to overtly criticize down to a minute scrutiny as if their option is best. I'm not going to talk about the money, the restraints or a want, but about its users. Although a few are the most vocal, those that preach, I cannot actively advocate that it represents all users as a whole or the actual hate that comes across from the customers be agreeable. It's to me its consistently toxic and peters from one extreme or another with no recourse of listening to either side yet their own. I feel like i'm looking at yelp reviewers threatening to get their on a mad power-trip. There is no consistency between companies, they don't actively share their model with one another nor do they share the same ideals. It's not one homogeneous plant, you can't pick and choose and base the experience from one set game from a different company to the next. You could set expectations, but stating company A did this so company B should do this as well doesn't necessarily reach. 

Think for example a game like Monster Hunter, if you played monster hunter you'll understand the controls are slow and the game is a grind. Yet people love it and each iteration it's basically the same but gets refined. You got to take a look at what the game is now and not to try adding something like this or that from another game. You got to live with what the game is. It's basically it.

Monster hunter isnt an mmo with a cash shop overpriced insanely. Mmos have evolved over time by taking things from other games and adding other stuff. Every game takes something from another game. This isn't basically it.. not if the game wants to survive long term. You need to see things from a bigger perspective. If the game has no funds it will go into the shitter really fast. Its only income is through the cash shop and initial buys from new players. If everything is overpriced in the games cash shop then there wont be much support from players spending on it. It will sink. If the prices are reasonable and they stick to the b2p and not bullshit with f2p things then this game will not sink and make it really far. People would support the game by spending on the cash shop if the prices aren't insane. If the game has no funding my friend then there wont be much of a game. It will turn into a mess. 

 

Its for the best of everything if the prices were lower on the cash shop, it would encourage people to spend on things they like. Currently people don't want to spend $29 on ONE single costume or $20 on ONE single horse costume and so on. The cash shop is their only funding for the game to go on and even if the game goes f2p and keeps this gigantic price tag on cash shop stuff then the game will go to shit. Really quickly. 

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Posted

Please oh please, tell me how my butt is covered wearing this "armor"

2016-03-07_263777660_zps51a6gy3p.png

Or any other of Ranger's armors.

Not only we have 6-7 armors in game total, but also all of them are copy pasted. If they didn't want to make 30 different armor sets per class least they could've done is make all 6-7 armors unique.

Actually, they have!

But then they moved some of the previously free armors to CS and the rest they simply removed from the game all together. This video is 2 years old from KR beta and armor they deleted isn't even in KR version now.

They also decided to get rid of leg protection/coverage on female armors. ¬¬

What could possibly be the reason to delete cool, unique armors from the game, armors that were already finished, polished and were in the game? Why did they replace them with copy-paste?

I seriously can't find any other reason than "If there's no variety they'll have to buy cosmetics from the Cash Shop".

Not to mention that we're the only B2P version of BDO, all other 3 being F2P, and we have the most expensive Cash Shop from them all.

And then there's RU that pays $3 for pets and $15 for full costume bundles.

They didn't have to raise prices or make the game P2W. This is not how this works. You're talking like there are absolutely no successful online games that sell pure cosmetics for a reasonable price. This is obviously far from truth. You can search "top online games 2015" in Google and there are all the examples you need. Daum and PA decided to go P2W in KR, JP and RU and they decided to make the prices so freaking high here. No one forced them to do any of those. They don't have to place the bar this high to earn money.

In fact, they're more likely losing money than earning it. As you said yourself- don't like it, don't buy it, and about 65-75% of community, according to polls on the forum, declared they won't spend a dime until prices drop or items become worth their value (permanent dyes, account bound costumes etc).

It's not even that much outrageous prices alone , it's more about really expensive prices + limiting or deleting content in-game and moving it to Cash Shop + paying more than BDO users in other countries, even though they're playing for free and we're paying up front. Pretty much every person concerned about BDO has something to hate and complain about in this area.

Look at this video guys and tell me you really don't see what Daum did to Pearl Abyss. THEY CREATED SPECIFIC ARMOR for ALL CLASSES, that looks like IT HAD PROGRESSION through GAME. And you all are still like " I see only fashion drama", no it's not about fashion (not to mention those ugly cash shop outfits aren't even that good as planned armor that can be seen in KR CBT). Daum even removed the armor completely not adding it even into cash shop, because it has probably no steel bikini or not enough fan service or people would realize " hey this armor looks like it was ripped off from in-game way of obtaining it!". So please, stop whinning about how developers needs to be paid (which is not what we complain about) and check the video out. We are paying money to Daum, which completely reworked this game to function like damn mobile game. I am really tired of people not grasping this. Yeah, defend stupid publisher. I can't wait for all the memes that are about to come comparing EA with Daum, then I'll be laughing how YOU only whine if it could be easily seen it's about to come. 

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Posted

Ugh yeah they took a lot of stuff out of the game that was in there originally. Daum has been super shady with taking things out or changing the way systems work without saying something.

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Posted

While I do agree with the OP, the horrible grammar made this wall of text harder to read.

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Posted

I play mmo's since 12 years and when a cash shop offers non-p2w items with reasonable prices i support

the game with microtransactions..

Now costumization of my chars is extremely important and one of the biggest aspects that define "content" for me personally..

In BDO the cash shop gates this costumization behind a pay wall, thats for me the same as gating a big chunk of content..

Dyes not being permanent, costumes at the moment required to "try to" look unique in one way or another, it

all made me quit this game after 5 days of playing..until this wont change, i will not come back to the game..

 

I only say this, because it means that Daum lost a willing to pay player due to their price politics..

..if im part of a minority then whatevs..go on with that cash system if you can hold a good playerbase

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Posted

Lets go back to that 2.2% figure. Since 100% of people pay the $30 dollars for the game, lets see how that compares to leaving it F2P. I'm going to round that 2.2 down to 2 for easier math and because there are also plenty of people that paid more than $30 dollars for the base game. 100%/2% = 50. 50 times more people spent that $30 than would have used a F2P cash shop. Thats the equivalent of that 2% spending $1500 EACH. Thats how much money this game made by default before its cash shop. Are you really saying that if they went F2P they would have needed every paying player to spend at least $1500 dollars in order to stay in business? As far as I'm concerned just the B2P sales should be more money than they could have hoped to make going F2P and I think they could have survived F2P since it did that just fine in the other countries. There is almost no way that BDO right now isn't INSANELY profitable to them. This isn't a company struggling to make payroll that needs your sympathy.

Ultimately a business's purpose is to make money. I do not believe that making cash shop prices high is ideal for that goal in the long term. Right now the company shouldn't be trying to grab as much cash as possible, they should be trying to stabilize the process so that they can also have gains in the long term. For an MMO that means retaining as many players as possible. Western devs seem to be picking up on this and doing massively well but publishers have so far been slow to follow. Thats just trying to look at it from their view without considering being ethical.

From our perspective we should hope to god that this system doesn't work out and that the game can recover. This game has almost every shady practice out there. Cut content, removed customization, RNG boxes, actual pay advantages (its not quite p2w but its pay to have an advantage with the pets and ghillie suit), stealth changes during patches, higher than competitions prices for cash shop, etc. If it succeeds thats just telling the market that its ok for everyone to do that. Our best case scenario would be that they actually care about their brand and listen to these types of complaints. The only positive things I've heard about Daum amount to "well some other publishers are even worse". Thats not a good thing.

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Posted (edited)

*Drug dealer ?

Bro, this is how legit biz works. Welcome to capitalisme :)

Edited by MoZex

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Posted

Ultimately a business's purpose is to make money. I do not believe that making cash shop prices high is ideal for that goal in the long term. Right now the company shouldn't be trying to grab as much cash as possible, they should be trying to stabilize the process so that they can also have gains in the long term. For an MMO that means retaining as many players as possible. Western devs seem to be picking up on this and doing massively well but publishers have so far been slow to follow. Thats just trying to look at it from their view without considering being ethical.

Pretty much this. I know some in this thread think they're clever and say "If you don't like it, don't play." No.. we're going to play because the game play is fine. But we're going to leech this game for all that its worth without spending a dime. Now you have to ask yourselves how healthy it is for the game to be full of leeches instead of paying customers?

Sure the buy in price of $30 sounds great for the short term. But when most don't buy. And the ones who do buy aren't buying anymore (seriously, are you all going to buy the same costume over again for the classes you already have.. out of the goodness of your hearts?). What then? Servers aren't cheap to run, nor maintain.

Rin's got a good point though. Publishers seem to do very badly when it comes to cash shops. MWO had this problem with IGP. They solved it once the Devs took it back and published it themselves. Daybreak (989 Studios/Verant/SOE) has always done well with their cash shops because they were self published. Same thing with Valve (even though they've made mistakes.. they've gone back and admitted to them and corrected them.. can't fault them for trying though).

So Daum has a choice. Lower prices to get more people buying and actually earn more. Like I said, I usually spend quite a bit on a game if I feel what I am getting is worth it. I can't be alone on that. Or they'll do the stupid thing and add more benefits to purchases, pushing it closer to P2W territory and drive many away. Stupid unless the intent is just to run the game for a year or two. Don't know their plans though. Though truth be told. I've not seen very many publishers stick with a game like this for more than 2 years. En Masse is the exception with Tera.

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Posted

I did not honestly read all of the threads.  I just wanted to put my two cents in.  The prices of the shop, make me not use the shop.  I've spent all the money I'm going to on the game.  However... I would spend more on the game if I got more out of the shop.  I'd probably drop another 100 right now if I could get a couple of outfits for my alts, for 25, plus I'd buy more horse armor so I could hvae my cart pulled by two horses with armor.  The fact that I get so little out of the 100 dollars is the problem.  I cannot rationalize spending THAT much for so little. 

 

I'm pretty sure I am not th eoly one that feels this way.

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Posted

The white knighting is strong with this one.

The prices are disappointing and kill enthusiasm which is how you generate users in the first place. BDO has few whale-centric p2w systems. You'd do better with a reasonably priced and accessible cash shop if only because you would avoid the massive outpouring of negativity and complaints about cosmetic diversity.

And all of that ignores the real issues, which have more to do with communication (lack thereof) on cash shop decisions and the insulting decision to hold back content from cbt2. I really love the game and plan to play and pay for a long time, but they're being disrespectful, plain and simple.

Also, the gambling dye system is atrocious for everyone involved. For every whale that sinks $300 in trying to look a certain way you'll have at least a dozen people who barely (if at all) kick in anything thanks to the random nature of the system, and then people like myself who spend six bucks and get lucky and make all those other players even less satisfied.

 

tl;dr version is "how about you try to cash shop but NOT trash your community goodwill and positive PR in the process"

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Posted (edited)

Whales are people who spend several thousands of cash on competitively driven cash shops - dont confuse whales with people who bought a costume & pet in BDO plz. ;) BDO is not a game for whaling, there's nothing you want to buy for thousands of dollars.......yet anyway.

As for those who are going "am just gonna leech this" - yeah great, am not actually sure leeching is the correct word here because BDO is b2p, not f2p. You bought a box after all.

Still its a deplorable way to talk about a game or genre you supposedly love. 'leeching' stuff is only gonna make matters worse, for precisely the reason the OT stated. boycotting the shop does NOT work because a vast majority of players dont spend in cash shops no matter what. If the same 2-5% spend cash at all, a publisher doesnt care about the marginally few of you who "will spend if its cheaper"; they care about those who are willing to spend a higher price. If they make stuff cheaper, that last group will also spend less than they otherwise would (everyone likes to pay less...duh) and that is a cut that obviously isnt favorable just to get few more medium-spenders on board. There are not enough medium spenders because there are not enough buyers overall, hence the focus on group nr.1.

DO we understand the dilemma? thanks.

All that said, you bought a b2p game and none of you are obligated to spend money in a shop you dislike. Just dont think it's gonna "help" anything. there are simply too many players around that won't RMT and that is a general issue with the entire f2p/b2p business.

Edited by Sylvara

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Posted

Whales are people who spend several thousands of cash on competitively driven cash shops - dont confuse whales with people who bought a costume & pet in BDO plz. ;) BDO is not a game for whaling, there's nothing you want to buy for thousands of dollars.

As for those who are going "am just gonna leech this" - yeah great, am not actually sure leeching is the correct word here because BDO is b2p, not f2p. You bought a box after all.

Still its a deplorable way to talk about a game or genre you supposedly love. 'leeching' stuff is only gonna make matters worse, for precisely the reason the OT stated. boycotting the shop does NOT work because a vast majority of players dont spend in cash shops no matter what. If the same 2-5% spend cash at all, a publisher doesnt care about the marginally few of you who "will spend if its cheaper"; they care about those who are willing to spend a higher price. If they make stuff cheaper, that last group will also spend less than they otherwise would (everyone likes to pay less...duh) and that is a cut that obviously isnt favorable just to get few more medium-spenders on board. There are not enough medium spenders because there are not enough buyers overall, hence the focus on group nr.1.

DO we understand the dilemma? thanks.

Well right now that is what people are doing with the dye system. We already know there are people who have dropped 300+ dollars to get the colors that they want. Once that color is gone they are going to need to spend more cash to get it again. 

 

I wish there was atleast sets of armor that you get from doing certain events. Nope all decent ones are in the cashshop :/

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Posted (edited)

 

I wish there was atleast sets of armor that you get from doing certain events. Nope all decent ones are in the cashshop :/

 

Have you looked into the crafting armors? I know it's small consolation but there's one or two that actually look nice. And you can craft them yourself.

I do hope that they will add both more costumes to the shops as well as ingame.

 

There is 0 reason to defend Daum's bullshit. People want to spend and will spend more frequently if the prices weren't insane. I would spend $30 on 3 dif armor sets but not $30 for one. Same with dyes. They should be perma and I would totally drop a good amount of cash on those. The group of about 25 people i play with all would defiantly spend money on the cash shop if the prices were reasonable. When the quantity and quality of the money spent is good, more people will spend on it. I've seen about 8 people with cash shop costume out of the hundreds ive seen in the game since first day of head start(conq pack). They would make more money tbh if the prices weren't outrageous. 

incorrect except for one thing: yes, 'greed' or rather business sense is the driving force. IF daum thought they could make more money lowering prices, they WOULD lower the prices. it's very simple that, they will always do the business that seems best. but there's contrary to popular belief reasons why lowering prices does in fact not generate more cash (see my post above). the group of players willing to spend is too small - and people writing in forums are not the majority of any MMO playerbase btw. its not you or me.

they're not stupid, they have more info than us and market analysts at disposal. think about that.

Edited by Sylvara
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Posted

 

Have you looked into the crafting armors? I know it's small consolation but there's one or two that actually look nice. And you can craft them yourself.

I do hope that they will add both more costumes to the shops as well as ingame.

 

incorrect except for one thing: yes, 'greed' or rather business sense is the driving force. IF daum thought they could make more money lowering prices, they WOULD lower the prices. it's very simple that, they will always do the business that seems best. but there's contrary to popular belief reasons why lowering prices does in fact not generate more cash (see my post above). the group of players willing to spend is too small - and people writing in forums are not the majority of any MMO playerbase btw. its not you or me.

they're not stupid, they have more info than us and market analysts at disposal. think about that.

Hope you stick to that mind set 3-6 months from now when its lookin really shitty.

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Posted


"yes, good goy OP, let the power of the shekels run through you"
*rubs hands together vigorously*  

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Posted

Hope you stick to that mind set 3-6 months from now when its lookin really shitty.

its not a mind set - it's an alternative explanation for whats happening. I find it funny when players go "they're so greedy" and then suggest they should lower the prices to "make more money"....erm, yeah totally not greedy. :D Greedy is your word anyway, not mine - all MMOs are business. It's just funny how we're selective about the type of greedy thats okay to us.

Anyway, the problem is the payment model itself, it doesnt work. Not enough players ever spend a buck in either f2p or b2p shops. Tragic considering it could've been an alternative to subscriptions which players these days also dont want to pay for, rofl.

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Posted

its not a mind set - it's an alternative explanation for whats happening. I find it funny when players go "they're so greedy" and then suggest they should lower the prices to "make more money"....erm, yeah totally not greedy. :D Greedy is your word anyway, not mine - all MMOs are business. It's just funny how we're selective about the type of greedy thats okay to us.

Anyway, the problem is the payment model itself, it doesnt work. Not enough players ever spend a buck in either f2p or b2p shops. Tragic considering it could've been an alternative to subscriptions which players these days also dont want to pay for, rofl.

asking $29 for a costume that should be $10 is greedy. Its not worth that. Less people will spend if the prices are high on things that dont make sense. Isn't that common sense? More people would feel like spending if they only had to spend $10 or so. Putting it at $29 puts off people that want to spend but dont get the value of their spending returned. If this game has no funding and no one supports it by buying these overpriced things then how will the game keep going? Do tell? 

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