• Announcements

    • IMPORTANT - REACH US IN THE NEW FORUM   05/04/2017

      Ladies and gentlemen ATTENTION please:
      It's time to move into a new house!
        As previously announced, from now on IT WON'T BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE THREADS OR REPLY in the old forums. From now on the old forums will be readable only. If you need to move/copy/migrate any post/material from here, feel free to contact the staff in the new home. We’ll be waiting for you in the NEW Forums!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php

      *New features and amazing tools are waiting for you, even more is yet to come in the future.. just like world exploration in BDO leads to new possibilities.
      So don't be afraid about changes, click the link above and follow us!
      Enjoy and see you on the other side!  
    • WICHTIG: Das Forum ist umgezogen!   05/04/2017

      Damen und Herren, wir bitten um Eure Aufmerksamkeit, es ist an der Zeit umzuziehen!
        Wie wir bereits angekündigt hatten, ist es ab sofort nicht mehr möglich, neue Diskussionen in diesem Forum zu starten. Um Euch Zeit zu geben, laufende Diskussionen abzuschließen, könnt Ihr noch für zwei Wochen in offenen Diskussionen antworten. Danach geht dieses Forum hier in den Ruhestand und das NEUE FORUM übernimmt vollständig.
      Das Forum hier bleibt allerdings erhalten und lesbar.   Neue und verbesserte Funktionen warten auf Euch im neuen Forum und wir arbeiten bereits an weiteren Erweiterungen.
      Wir sehen uns auf der anderen Seite!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php Update:
      Wie angekündigt könen ab sofort in diesem Forum auch keine neuen Beiträge mehr veröffentlicht werden.
    • IMPORTANT: Le nouveau forum   05/04/2017

      Aventurières, aventuriers, votre attention s'il vous plaît, il est grand temps de déménager!
      Comme nous vous l'avons déjà annoncé précédemment, il n'est désormais plus possible de créer de nouveau sujet ni de répondre aux anciens sur ce bon vieux forum.
      Venez visiter le nouveau forum!
      https://community.blackdesertonline.com
      De nouvelles fonctionnalités ainsi que de nouveaux outils vous attendent dès à présent et d'autres arriveront prochainement! N'ayez pas peur du changement et rejoignez-nous! Amusez-vous bien et a bientôt dans notre nouveau chez nous

Trade Crates?

55 posts in this topic

Posted

I hear people talking about Trade Crates?  What are they?  I know you get like iron ore or something and turn it into a crate, then trade it.  How do i do this?

 

Posting it in PvE forums.. cause General is filled with people complaining and spammers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

You need to have a 'Mineral Workshop' where you can make ore crates. Made a iron and copper crate before and it seem that trading it to the trade NPCs wasn't worth it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

You need to have a 'Mineral Workshop' where you can make ore crates. Made a iron and copper crate before and it seem that trading it to the trade NPCs wasn't worth it.

Thanks.  

Any tips on leveling up trade level?  I'm just doing trade quests and trading trade items to NPC. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I don't think there's really any tricks in trading. Just try to maximize your profits while keeping the distance short.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

You level up trading simply by selling items to the Trade Managers.

I am not sure if the +EXP you get per trade is a fixed value or changes based on other factors (distance item was transported, profit margin you get etc). Others may be able to confirm that.

It really boosts your trade income and exp to invest in a Farm Wagon. They are 180k from the Stable guys. That enables you to carry 14 items, ergo 14 x profit and also hits of +EXP.

If you have contribution points enough you can set workers to gather stuff from nodes, then craft the Crates. This is a bit slower as they have to gather the raw materials (e.g. pumpkins, mushrooms, iron, copper, wheat, flax or whatever) and also craft the Crafts in a workshop (Crop Workshop for the farm stuff, Mineral Workshop for the ores). Crafting crates also requires Black Stone Powder which can only be obtained by either manually mining rocks to get Rough Stone (which a worker can then refine into Black Stone Powder in a Refinery building) or slaughtering the Mine Imps north of Heidel to get the green gems, then use Processing (L key) and Grind those green stones into Black Stone Powder.

Benefit with the Crates is that they weigh fairly little AND they are stackable. Being stackable is a huge advantage.

Most trade items, e.g. Fish you catch or items bought from Trade Manager take 1 slot per item. This fills up your donkey or wagon really fast. But with the crates you can carry loads of crates, or a good amount of many different ones. That means you can sell more items... and selling more items = more profit and also more hits of +EXP as you are doing multiple transactions.

To boost your Trading I would also do AFK fishing. That way when you are ready to play you have some fishes (for free) in your backpack and you can run off and sell those straightaway for a little extra +EXP hits as well.

** edit **

Forgot to mention.... talk to your black spirit and then click on the Guide and ask about trading. This opens up Trading quests from all the Trade Managers which gives you a nice little extra boost of Contribution XP as well as rewards in the form of coins (which you can sell for profit as trade goods) or tokens which allows you to get trade items off the vendors.

Edited by Ghroznak
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

At the moment they are not really worth it. (value)

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

At the moment they are not really worth it. (value)

Do I have to make another post with calculations and screenshots to prove that getting 200k silver in a very little time with only a few CP, energy and cheapest stable bought wagon invested is actually profitable?

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I have tried it with a mudskipper crate, for the crate you need 10 Dried Mudskippers and one black stone powder.

When i sell them to Bahar, he give me around 1,200 silver for each Mudskippers for a total of 12,000 Silver, but when i sell him the crate he give me 2,500 silver, if you look at the time to gather all the items... i really don't find it worth the hassle :/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Later in the game, it could be pretty good. 

As Groznac stated, they can be piled, which increase the profits. 

Also, trading have two main base components, demand and distance.

Demanf : Some trade managers have higher demande than others, which increase prices.Since this varies, we have to look frequently at prices to know if it's worth it. 
To know deman, from the map, click on a trader's wheel, and spend one energy to look at prices. repeat for a few traders.

Distance : There is a bonus according to distance - the farther you go, the more of a bonus you get, as long as nodes are connected (which is why I state later in the game - need linked nodes). 

Crates trading demands a relatively small player involvement. Make the most of workers for gathering ingredients and materials and only do the minimal processing they can't do. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

While I understand the benefit of the crates being stackable, they still take up the same weight, which fills up fairly quickly, and the issue of them being small percentages of the profit of the base items remains.

For example (non-fish):

Iron Ore Crate:
10 Iron Ore, NPC 80, Market 140-170 = 800-1700s
1 Black Stone Powder, NPC 330, Market 1275-1664 = 330-1664s
---------Total--------
1130-3364s

Iron Ore Crate is worth NPC 1530s.
@130% market state, that's 1989s
 

To even BREAK EVEN you'd need a distance modifier of 69%

I don't see this happening. You could argue that you can gather/buy the Rough Stone and make the Black Stone Powder yourself, but then you don't understand opportunity cost...

I started making these because they seemed like a good idea...and if they only cost you the Iron, they'd be fine. That would be more than 10% profit at a 130% market, which is great...but the BSP adds a ~1600s overhead that you NEVER get back.

My thought is, if you look ONLY at the NPC vendor prices, these crates all seem to follow the same formula...however, the market prices on a lot of these things are SO MUCH higher than their NPC vendor price, it makes trade with them PAINFULLY horrible.

Example from before:
If you only look at "Price" and not "Market Price" on Iron and BSP:

Iron Ore Crate:
10 Iron Ore, NPC 80
1 Black Stone Powder, NPC 330
---------Total--------
1130s

Iron Ore Crate is worth NPC 1530, that's a ~35% value boost from packing it into a crate.

New Example:

Fortune Teller Mushroom Crate:
10 FT Mushroom, NPC 36
1 Black Stone Powder, NPC 330
---------Total--------
690s

FTM Crate is worth NPC 990, that's a ~43% value boost from packing it into a crate.

If you look at MOST crates, and you ONLY consider the NPC Vendor price, they're all worth about 30-50% more than the good you pack into them.
If you look at Market Prices, all the ones I've looked at are worth LESS than the good you pack into them, usually by a fairly substantial margin.
 
Seems like a basic programming/design error?

==========================================================

Looking further, this doesn't affect just the crates, it also affects other crafted trade goods, like the Crystal amulets.

I saw someone in another thread that said the item prices/recipe amounts were adjusted post-launch in Korea based on demand/supply of many items.

It looks like they may have adjusted the Market Prices, while leaving the NPC Prices alone, and if they adjusted the crafted goods values at all, it was likely based on the recipe ingredients' NPC Prices, which weren't adjusted.

Edited by Reithan
typo
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Do I have to make another post with calculations and screenshots to prove that getting 200k silver in a very little time with only a few CP, energy and cheapest stable bought wagon invested is actually profitable?

Actually a link to your previous post would be interesting =)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Well.  I'll just see for myself when i get to that point.  Right now i'm just trying to get a noble wagon and figure out the best nodes to invest in. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Actually a link to your previous post would be interesting =)

Cba looking through all my posts but I will type it once again. I get around 50 sunflowers from one plant, 5 blackstone powder from breaking crystals. That is 2 energy spent on 5 crates (10 sunflowers 1 powder per crate). Crop workbench takes 1 CP, fence for single plant you get for free, strong one is 10 CP holds 9 plants (I have scarecrow on 1 slot). Bargaining, optional, takes 5 energy per try. Wagon is 180k one time investment, and I have been driving mine around for days it is still on 1/3 health (I leveled 4 horses to 8-15 with it so far). I drive my crates from Velia to Glish, which I have connected. I get from 18-25k per crate depending on a day and bargaining. I normally take 10 crates which is half of what the wagon can carry because I use that wagon as my second bag and its always overloaded with other crap :P

Now you can do maths and see if its profitable. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I only have 2 question: What is the minimum market price of Sunflowers, and do they actually sell if you put them on market?
Is there anything else you could spend 2energy and 1CP (or less) on, with similar investment cost, that would net similar or more profit?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Did you all invest in a certain city so you can cash in for more money?  I find that after increasing the investment into a big city after I fish the money I get back in return is slowly getting higher.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Cba looking through all my posts but I will type it once again. I get around 50 sunflowers from one plant, 5 blackstone powder from breaking crystals. That is 2 energy spent on 5 crates (10 sunflowers 1 powder per crate). Crop workbench takes 1 CP, fence for single plant you get for free, strong one is 10 CP holds 9 plants (I have scarecrow on 1 slot). Bargaining, optional, takes 5 energy per try. Wagon is 180k one time investment, and I have been driving mine around for days it is still on 1/3 health (I leveled 4 horses to 8-15 with it so far). I drive my crates from Velia to Glish, which I have connected. I get from 18-25k per crate depending on a day and bargaining. I normally take 10 crates which is half of what the wagon can carry because I use that wagon as my second bag and its always overloaded with other crap :P

Now you can do maths and see if its profitable. 

Thanks a lot for sharing that.  I'm going to play a bit of devil's advocate here but please don't take this the wrong way - it just seems like you are quoting some very optimistic/best case numbers and not more realistic/average results.

1) 50 Sunflowers from one plant?  What is your Farming Skill at?  I think the max I have ever got is 40 and usually I'm looking at 20-35 IIRC.  Do you water/fertilize your plants?  What about Pruning or Killing Insects?  What growth % are you harvesting at?  For every Sunflower I get to Harvest I need to Breed 1-2 others so I don't run out of seeds.  Workers who make crates also require Beer to provide Stamina, I get about 1.5 Beer or 3 Stamina per combine (1 energy), especially if you factor in the wheat/potatoes used to make the beer.  So, going by my experience 1 Harvest will get me 3 crates and cost me about 4 energy (assuming I don't water/fertilize/prune/kill insects).

2) Any idea what the Marketplace price on Sunflowers/Black Powder is?  I actually checked prices on Sunflowers, Sunflower Seeds, and Milk Tea last night to see which I was better off selling but I can't remember what they were.  I want to say around 1,200 silver each on the low end but I could be totally off.  I think I recall seeing that Black Powder was about 1,500 silver?  If so, the materials could be sold for what 13,000 per crate - less 35% tax or about 8,500 Silver profit?  These prices could be waaaay off however as I am not in game.

3) What is the base sell price of the crates?  what is the distance modifier for your route and what is the normal demand modifier at the destination?  Do you normally Bargain?  Unfortunately bargaining seems pretty random and while 5 energy might be worth the increased price they pay (depending on how many crates you have), sometimes you might bargain multiple times for no benefit.  Also, what is your Trading profession at?

I'm interested in this discussion not so we can argue on the internet and wave epeens around but because I am interested in trying out some trading.  I dug up my sunflower farm by Heidel last night to move it somewhere less central and be able to get higher distance modifiers.  Even if it proves to be unprofitable it will be interesting to try and see what I can do and how it all works.

Edited by Mystborn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

The main benefit I can find to trade crates right now, is that they don't take a market slot and they sell RIGHT NOW.

They offer no where NEAR the same profit as actually selling on market though. And if you consider the opportunity cost of the materials, as such, they are actually a net loss.

But, that ASSUMES you have market slots available and that the goods will actually sell in a timely manner, which has not been my experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

 

1) I farm on my alt, she is always parked at the fence and I only fertilize when I want plants to grow faster for some reason which is rare. She has around low apprentice farming I believe (not ingame right now to check). I do kill bugs and prune every now and then. I harvest at exactly 100%, breed at around 118-120%. I mostly get 40-60 sunflowers and 2-3 seeds from one plants. With my 10 slots that is plenty enough imo. I have professional cooking on my main and I didnt do maths but I get really lot of extra beer including the blue crits. I cannot count cooking energy because I get other things from side dishes out of it too. 

2) I dont check market on sunflowers and blackstone powder, the prices vary. Milk Tea was going for 25k last time I was selling, now I see its 9k. So I dont really like to invest in something that I might sell on market in the long run. Since I dont buy any of my mats in market I just count raw time/energy/CP and so on. 

3) Minimum price I saw so far was 103% and that is 18k per crate. 120% which I get with bargaining from there is 22k. If I was more organized and checked prices more often instead of just going on when I feel like it, I could get 25k per crate at 130%. I am not very knowledgeable about distance modifiers you will have to ask that someone else. I drive from Velia, where I have my farm and crop bench to Glish. That is as far as I have connected because I spend CP on other things more right now. In time I plan to expand to Trent. My trading is low, not even on apprentice yet because I tend to sell stuff on whatever alt I happen to be on. I do have and use trading outfit though.

I dont have any kind of peen so cant wave with that even if I wanted to :P  But I am far less efficient, organized and disciplined with my crates than I am sure you will be judging your questions. I would say give it a try and see how it goes for you. 

Forum bugged out on me with quotes :S

Edited by Kat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

1) I farm on my alt, she is always parked at the fence and I only fertilize when I want plants to grow faster for some reason which is rare. She has around low apprentice farming I believe (not ingame right now to check). I do kill bugs and prune every now and then. I harvest at exactly 100%, breed at around 118-120%. I mostly get 40-60 sunflowers and 2-3 seeds from one plants. With my 10 slots that is plenty enough imo. I have professional cooking on my main and I didnt do maths but I get really lot of extra beer including the blue crits. I cannot count cooking energy because I get other things from side dishes out of it too. 

Thanks for the civil response!

I must be doing something wrong with my farming.  I get about 30 sunflowers per harvest, with 40 being my all time high score.  When I breed I get either 1 or 2 seeds, about 50/50 I'd say.  I have never got 3 seeds.  When I only get 1 seed I usually get some kind of byproduct or whatever along with it.

Hmmm, what colour sunflowers are you growing? White, Green, or Blue?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Thanks for the civil response!

I must be doing something wrong with my farming.  I get about 30 sunflowers per harvest, with 40 being my all time high score.  When I breed I get either 1 or 2 seeds, about 50/50 I'd say.  I have never got 3 seeds.  When I only get 1 seed I usually get some kind of byproduct or whatever along with it.

Hmmm, what colour sunflowers are you growing? White, Green, or Blue?

The question was civil so why wouldnt the answer be too? I have no problem with inquiries and interest even if its "playing devils advocate". I only have a problem when people try to put down something without even trying it first. 

I think that plants infested with bugs and not pruned wield less, I dont have solid data to prove that yet but I mostly always get more than 50 flowers from healthy plant at exactly 100%. Same with seeds, 118% and healthy plant as well yields the best quality and quantity for me. 

I am growing exclusively the top quality, blue ones, now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I dont have any kind of peen so cant wave with that even if I wanted to :P  But I am far less efficient, organized and disciplined with my crates than I am sure you will be judging your questions. I would say give it a try and see how it goes for you. 

For me, it's not so much about peen, as it is that I'm disappointed that they don't seem to be balancing trade well against the greater market. For example, unless I want to go gathering stone for a long time, the only good way to get the Black Stone Powder for crate is buying it off the market. Some crates are worth less than 1 BSP costs at MINIMUM market cost...

That's just dumb.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

For me, it's not so much about peen, as it is that I'm disappointed that they don't seem to be balancing trade well against the greater market. For example, unless I want to go gathering stone for a long time, the only good way to get the Black Stone Powder for crate is buying it off the market. Some crates are worth less than 1 BSP costs at MINIMUM market cost...

That's just dumb.

Did you try grinding cheaper crystals? I generally get blackstone powder that way for less than buying it off market.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

its not worth it and its unbalanced, what did you expect with a closed, restricted communistic market and trading system?

 

free market balances itself on its own.

Edited by Xom
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Did you try grinding cheaper crystals? I generally get blackstone powder that way for less than buying it off market.

Problem is, while other things may not, Black Stone Powder DOES sell extremely fast on market. So, if I find a much cheaper way of getting BSP, I'll probably just sell the BSP for a better profit, or I'll use it to craft more lucrative things.

Cheapest way of "buying" BSP I found was buying a bunch of Rough Stone off market and using workers to refine it...but Rough Stone is almost always sold out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Problem is, while other things may not, Black Stone Powder DOES sell extremely fast on market. So, if I find a much cheaper way of getting BSP, I'll probably just sell the BSP for a better profit, or I'll use it to craft more lucrative things.

Cheapest way of "buying" BSP I found was buying a bunch of Rough Stone off market and using workers to refine it...but Rough Stone is almost always sold out.

You have to go out and farm some stuff on your own sometimes. I am never out of powder but I grind out every crystal that drops and I mine zinc a lot so over 500 rough stones in storage and incoming. Relying on market no thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites