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Grinding and Enhancement for PvP


47 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

The general point of this post is to get opinions on what people think about  grinding and enhancements to your character progressions (IE upgrading through black stones).

I am currently level 39 with the intention of mostly PvP'ing in this game. I have been following this game since around 2012. I played the Russian Beta for a couple hours and have been playing the EU/US version, so I am in no way an expert on knowledge of this game. I've just read here and there for awhile, so please keep this in mind!

My opinion of the game has really gone downhill since I began playing. I knew the grinding was pretty crazy, the upgrading of weapons and gear make a huge difference and that the game is hardcore in general. I wasn't aware to how ridiculous it is by from what I've read recently.Things like 1-50 is equivalent to 50-51, and above above 60 is nearly impossible to push a level. The fact that a +17 geared player can take on 3 +15 geared players in PvP seems absolutely stupid if this is a true statement. These elements of the game seem way too much in my opinion for a game based quite a lot on PvP.

Also, how can someone like to Grind monster that much? I liked it at first compared to theme park quest leveling, but even before reaching 50 I'm starting to get tired of constant grinding just to stay with a competitive with players. I am already WAY behind a lot of people, but to make things worse a players could potentially kill me and I would have no chance of fighting back if they have better gear enhancements than me.

I get that progression is a fun thing and people like to feel rewarded after work, but the amount of an advantage that people receive takes any amount of skill nullified out of the equation. It just sounds like the skill versus character progression is WAY unbalanced in favor of character progression. I wouldn't mind it being more on the character progression side if it weren't so extreme.

What is everyone opinions on level and item enhancements being the determining factor from what it sounds like in being "successful" in PvP? Please correct me if I make the game sound more hardcore than it is, or if it is even more hardcore than I make it sound, or if I'm just wrong about something in general.

I REALLY REALLY want to like this game. I hope I'm at least slightly wrong. LoL.

 

Edited by Donce
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Posted

it's a stupid system that's flopped in korea and will flop in north america too but good luck trying to convince the fanboys

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Posted

It's alot of work to stay semi-relevant in PvP if you don't got alot of free time.
I think Daum did say that they were gonna look a the +15> gear scale when Mediah gets closer.

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I suggest to wait Camelot Unchained for an actual pvp game. This is a nice break from the other crap games people call RvR or owpvp.

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Im sorry to say this mate, but if you are already tired of the "Grind" and you arent even 40. This game is and will never be for you. Its a hardcore grinder

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I absolutely love the grind of everything really. I've found the game incredibly enjoyable and somewhat addictive. 

It's alot of work to stay semi-relevant in PvP if you don't got alot of free time.
I think Daum did say that they were gonna look a the +15> gear scale when Mediah gets closer.

But I do believe that as Yablo mentioned, Daum is expected to adjust the insane scaling that happens post 15+. So that should make that crazy gap a little more manageable.

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What makes these grinds manageable for those of you who like it? Music while playing? Doing it with friends? The combat? The rush that you are in the top ranking of leveled players?

I hate to sound condescending, but I fail to see how someone can enjoy grinding the same mobs over and over for hours each day and doing so every day even with awesome graphics and entertaining combat.

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Posted (edited)

i 100% agree with this.

This game desperately needs to equalize gear for pvp, or at least have an equalized pvp mode.

The devs need to realize that pvp should be skill based and pve should be grind/gear based.
This game has a great combat system but fails to take advantage of it by not having an equalized competitive PVP mode where utility and practice will matter more than gearing up.

It should be self evident that a pvp win should go to who plays the smartest rather than who grinded gear in pve to win matches in pvp.

Edited by Xaqq
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Idk guys but for me seems really Skill based!! at 45 i fight couple of 50/51 players with double my stats and noone beat me. Different classes aswell. I was really happy to see this ( i can do dmg on them - all accesories i had accuracy- ) 

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Posted (edited)

I don't know what's wrong with mmorpg players nowadays. Why everyone want every single mmorpg out there to be like: ok, grind some until level xx, then just go around fragging people to show off your awesome skillz. Not every game needs to be an arena simulator, or a perfectly balanced pvp game...there are other genres for you out there. MOBAs, 2d fighter games, FPS. You pick.

This is an old school MMO. I get that most of the player base isnt even 20 years old, and probably dont even know what old school mmo means, but just for example:

Take Lineage 2. Nobody ever complained about the longest grind ever, nobody ever complained that it took you one year to reach the level cap (just to see it getting higher with each expansion). Nobody ever complained that a fully geared storm screamer with +20 staff and full buffed could 2-hit you at anytime. Nobody ever complained about getting PKed over and over and over (ok maybe someone did) while leveling up, and losing xp and time. Nobody ever complained when you had to roll a totally different character (dwarf) just to craft stuff. Nobody ever complained that it was so hard to drop the piece of gear you were looking for that it could take months of farming, either for the piece or for the mats to craft it. Nobody ever complained that the craft that took you a LOT of time to prepare could FAIL. Nobody ever complained that the piece of gear it took you so long to obtain could BREAK if you failed your enhancement after +3. And on top of that, you had to pay each month to play.

You know why? Because that was the game. It wasn't meant to be balanced, or competitive, or an "e-sport". It was a mmorpg when mmorpgs were social games and you just logged in to do stuff with your buddies and perhaps some pvp or some pk, or some grind. And people still play it after almost 15 years. 

Black Desert is pretty much the same, but much easier it seems. After 10 days from the release there is already people running around with +15 gear and level 55 toons. After 10 days. I played Lineage 2 for years and never had a +15 endgame weapon, and yet it was so damn fun.

TL;DR Stop looking for competitive pvp where there isn't any. If you want competitive pvp so much there are a tons of other games out there to play. Actual e-sports too.

Edited by diabh
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Posted

This post is stupid. Your not even 50 so you shouldn't comment...

1 +17 can take on 3 +15?  seriously anyone that reads this post and thinks this information is credible is retarded..... seriously the +3 people would have to be bots...

The game is MEANT to have a power hierarchy.... the best people get the best farming spots and kill you if you try take their mobs... as a level 50 ive seen this every single day at catfish already

this game is NOT meant to be about balanced pvp.  its about character improvement and forming an emotional attachment to your character because of the amount of time youve invested.  If you want a balanced pvp game go play a moba or an fps or some other sort of game with short matches. 

I suggest to wait Camelot Unchained for an actual pvp game. This is a nice break from the other crap games people call RvR or owpvp.

honestly i tried to get hyped for camelot unchained but it just looks like crap.... maybe they will make it good but now it looks horrid...  like seriously.. it just looks like massive zergs with uninteresting classes and abilities

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Posted (edited)

Please don't change it being easier to get over +15 I think people being a +15 on a weapon already is ridiculous compared to my previous games, but I suppose I'm used to ultra hardcore grinds and crafting.  To get +5 on a weapon on the last game I played took months and maxed out over a year.  People are +15 on a weapon in a week here, so if you make it even easier it won't make obtaining anything worthwhile as everyone will have it.  Rares and rare crafting is needed in this, to make it all that more special.  I'll post more on this later down the line when I have more knowledge about the game.

Please put more armour and weapons in for the love of god!  And make some hard to obtain!

*Hopes this filters through the Devs* :)

Edited by Lust69

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Posted

I suggest to wait Camelot Unchained for an actual pvp game. This is a nice break from the other crap games people call RvR or owpvp.

Camelot Unchained i lol'ed. Put that game in the trash already.

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Posted (edited)

DP Delete. :)

Edited by Lust69

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Posted (edited)

What makes these grinds manageable for those of you who like it? Music while playing? Doing it with friends? The combat? The rush that you are in the top ranking of leveled players?

I hate to sound condescending, but I fail to see how someone can enjoy grinding the same mobs over and over for hours each day and doing so every day even with awesome graphics and entertaining combat.

Having goals and friends pushing you is what makes it "manageable" for me.
Why do you play the game? Perhaps your issue lies there.

My goal is to be one of the strongest players in the server, a powerhouse within my guild and to PvP, PvP and PvP every day. We have GvGs running constantly so I run into enemies randomly at every time of the day that interrupts the monotone grinding. I'm on voice chat with my guildies 24/7 talking while grinding and we're progressing together.

It's not even that slow. I'm level 53 and I can make 4% exp in an hour. Plus all the money of course. Farming silver, drops and getting that rare drop once in a while keeps me addicted together with the constant PvP action and larger GvG battles with groups from other guilds.

I can farm for 2 hours straight, then do some repeatables, do disco scrolls for an hour and upgrade my gear, go to the guild quests where we get contested by another guild, declare war on them and battle it out 15vs30 scoring over 300 kills within an hour and then grind another 2 hours. 

Just an hour before this maint I switched channel to get a grind spot I wanted, found a GvG enemy from Eclypse farming there, killed him and stole his mobs only to drop a witch's earring from the group he had been killing. That feeling alone motivates me to keep going and made my day. 

Edited by AngelofAwe
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Posted

Camelot Unchained i lol'ed. Put that game in the trash already.

+1

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Posted

the world is huge and pvp can happen anywhere. as long as you don't pick your fights with the wrong people you'll be fine. Not everyone will run +20 gear. not even +17.

personally im fine with the grind. feels like some of the good old mmo's again. There were people who easily destroyed 90% of the playerbase and i still loved playing it. Why? because i wanted to be that guy. So I keept improving myself. Going from +15 to +17 takes time. But that guy needs even more time to go to +18. Definately possible to catch up especially with RNG upgrading. There WILL be people that destroy you easily. They WON'T be everywhere.

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I don't know what's wrong with mmorpg players nowadays. Why everyone wants every single mmorpg out there to be like: ok, grind some until level xx, then just go around fragging people to show off your awesome skillz. Not every game needs to be an arena simulator, or a perfectly balanced pvp game...there are other genres for you out there. MOBAs, 2d fighter games, FPS. You pick.

This is an old school MMO. I get that most of the player base isnt even 20 years old, and probably dont even know what old school mmo means, but just for example.

Take Lineage 2. Nobody ever complained about the longest grind ever, nobody ever complained that it took you one year to reach the level cap (just to see it getting higher with each expansion). Nobody ever complained that a fully geared storm screamer with +20 staff and full buffed could 2-hit you at anytime. Nobody ever complained about getting PKed over and over and over (ok maybe someone did) while leveling up, and losing xp and time. Nobody ever complained when you had to roll a totally different character (dwarf) just to craft stuff. Nobody ever complained that it was so hard to drop the piece of gear you were looking for that it could take months of farming, either for the piece or for the mats to craft it. Nobody ever complained that the craft that took you a LOT of time to prepare could FAIL. Nobody ever complained that the piece of gear it took you so long to obtain could BREAK if you failed your enhancement after +3. And on top of that, you had to pay each month to play.

You know why? Because that was the game. It wasn't meant to be balanced, or competitive, or an "e-sport". It was a mmorpg when mmorpgs were social games and you just logged in to do stuff with your buddies and perhaps some pvp or some pk, or some grind. And people still play it after almost 15 years. 

Black Desert is pretty much the same, but much easier it seems. After 10 days from the release there is already people running around with +15 gear and level 55 toons. After 10 days. I played Lineage 2 for years and never had a +15 endgame weapon, and yet it was so damn fun.

TL;DR Stop looking for competitive pvp where there isn't any. If you want competitive pvp so much there are a tons of other games out there to play. Actual e-sports too.

Ppl now just want all max it and play 2 week after quit. Are so less who forgot is a MMO and take ( must take ) years to reach something.. in BDO is so easy to get end gear and have fun pvp.. and farmvillage game / fishing  etc.. More easy then it is cant be. In a MMo in 1 week reach all max is insane.

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The general point of this post is to get opinions on what people think about  grinding and enhancements to your character progressions (IE upgrading through black stones).

I am currently level 39 with the intention of mostly PvP'ing in this game. I have been following this game since around 2012. I played the Russian Beta for a couple hours and have been playing the EU/US version, so I am in no way an expert on knowledge of this game. I've just read here and there for awhile, so please keep this in mind!

My opinion of the game has really gone downhill since I began playing. I knew the grinding was pretty crazy, the upgrading of weapons and gear make a huge difference and that the game is hardcore in general. I wasn't aware to how ridiculous it is by from what I've read recently.Things like 1-50 is equivalent to 50-51, and above above 60 is nearly impossible to push a level. The fact that a +17 geared player can take on 3 +15 geared players in PvP seems absolutely stupid if this is a true statement. These elements of the game seem way too much in my opinion for a game based quite a lot on PvP.

Also, how can someone like to Grind monster that much? I liked it at first compared to theme park quest leveling, but even before reaching 50 I'm starting to get tired of constant grinding just to stay with a competitive with players. I am already WAY behind a lot of people, but to make things worse a players could potentially kill me and I would have no chance of fighting back if they have better gear enhancements than me.

I get that progression is a fun thing and people like to feel rewarded after work, but the amount of an advantage that people receive takes any amount of skill nullified out of the equation. It just sounds like the skill versus character progression is WAY unbalanced in favor of character progression. I wouldn't mind it being more on the character progression side if it wren't so extreme.

What is everyone opinions on level and item enhancements being the determining factor from what it sounds like in being "successful" in PvP? Please correct me if I make the game sound more hardcore than it is, or if it is even more hardcore than I make it sound, or if I'm just wrong about something in general.

I REALLY REALLY want to like this game. I hope I'm at least slightly wrong. LoL.

 

It sounds like the game you are looking for is maybe either a moba, fps, overwatch, or fighting game.  Some people like these types of games because the progression adds more to the game.  I like the idea of my character being able to become stronger.  I fully realize that in these types of games I will never be the strongest player as there is always someone who will put in more time and effort.  If you make the game into a race with these people you will not enjoy it.  I am still awestruck and motivated by what those people can accomplish.  On the other hand in games without progression it gets stale to me faster once you get to the point where there isn't much more you can do to improve your performance.

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What makes these grinds manageable for those of you who like it? Music while playing? Doing it with friends? The combat? The rush that you are in the top ranking of leveled players?

I hate to sound condescending, but I fail to see how someone can enjoy grinding the same mobs over and over for hours each day and doing so every day even with awesome graphics and entertaining combat.

In other mmos I would just listen to music.. I hate the grind too

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Is this a damn joke? Grinding in this game is extremely easy.. 45 to 50 takes about 1:30 hrs at Catfish. Grinding is a joke. 50-51 doesn't take long, and neither does 51-54. I won't post exact hours.

Enhancing in this game is also WAYYYYY too easy. The fact that an average player can achieve +15 Weapon ANDDDD be able to extract the Black Stones? oookay. Most games you aren't able to exact the ingredient (which is always a b***).

Regardless I'm playing, and I'm one of those you're talking about. Up there in the gear and levels.

This is a very easy MMO in comparison to super-grinding games like Lineage etc

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What makes these grinds manageable for those of you who like it? Music while playing? Doing it with friends? The combat? The rush that you are in the top ranking of leveled players?

I hate to sound condescending, but I fail to see how someone can enjoy grinding the same mobs over and over for hours each day and doing so every day even with awesome graphics and entertaining combat.

Have you ever played a Diablo game? Because the entire game is nothing but a grind and they're wildly popular.

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The general point of this post is to get opinions on what people think about  grinding and enhancements to your character progressions (IE upgrading through black stones).

I am currently level 39 with the intention of mostly PvP'ing in this game. I have been following this game since around 2012. I played the Russian Beta for a couple hours and have been playing the EU/US version, so I am in no way an expert on knowledge of this game. I've just read here and there for awhile, so please keep this in mind!

My opinion of the game has really gone downhill since I began playing. I knew the grinding was pretty crazy, the upgrading of weapons and gear make a huge difference and that the game is hardcore in general. I wasn't aware to how ridiculous it is by from what I've read recently.Things like 1-50 is equivalent to 50-51, and above above 60 is nearly impossible to push a level. The fact that a +17 geared player can take on 3 +15 geared players in PvP seems absolutely stupid if this is a true statement. These elements of the game seem way too much in my opinion for a game based quite a lot on PvP.

Also, how can someone like to Grind monster that much? I liked it at first compared to theme park quest leveling, but even before reaching 50 I'm starting to get tired of constant grinding just to stay with a competitive with players. I am already WAY behind a lot of people, but to make things worse a players could potentially kill me and I would have no chance of fighting back if they have better gear enhancements than me.

I get that progression is a fun thing and people like to feel rewarded after work, but the amount of an advantage that people receive takes any amount of skill nullified out of the equation. It just sounds like the skill versus character progression is WAY unbalanced in favor of character progression. I wouldn't mind it being more on the character progression side if it wren't so extreme.

What is everyone opinions on level and item enhancements being the determining factor from what it sounds like in being "successful" in PvP? Please correct me if I make the game sound more hardcore than it is, or if it is even more hardcore than I make it sound, or if I'm just wrong about something in general.

I REALLY REALLY want to like this game. I hope I'm at least slightly wrong. LoL.

 

i too enjoy progression, but the sad truth is that u need to play alot and play right every day to compete, and this game will kill relationships if u wanna be a srs pvper. Theres no trading so each player needs to be PvX orientated to sustain themselves, like doing dailies and weekly and ancient scrolls. Have u not been playing since pre launch and hit 50 within the first 3 days ur already a bit behind, of course u can catch up overtime but it's not easy vs the grinders. Aside from this u sustain urself through using ur contribution pts and energy, preferably in grinding with being good at one or or two life skills. When future new enchantments beyond +15 opens up with liverto or zaka weps with boss armor, ull need unbeliveable amounts of silver beyond ur imagination to max that up, not to mention fragments of knowledge to repair the gear in the process. Its a lovely game that offers so much that can be enjoyed casually, like a skyrim or witch online, just not never for pvp.

 

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What makes these grinds manageable for those of you who like it? Music while playing? Doing it with friends? The combat? The rush that you are in the top ranking of leveled players?

I hate to sound condescending, but I fail to see how someone can enjoy grinding the same mobs over and over for hours each day and doing so every day even with awesome graphics and entertaining combat.

I listen to MGTOW videos and grind, ez pz grind isnt bad at all.

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Camelot Unchained i lol'ed. Put that game in the trash already.

I see you like overpowering others because you have 24h a day to play then; unless you care to elaborate more. Nah don't i don't care to read it.

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