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<PETITION> Make processing energy free !


Should following be energy free?   549 votes

  1. 1. Processing stuff => grinding, heating, drying, etc.

    • Yes
      291
    • No
      258
  2. 2. Also thought about gathering ... What do you think should be fair way to make it?

    • 1 energy per gather like now but with % chance to not use it
      343
    • Energy free for all of it
      84
    • 1 energy per gather, but only some types of gathering
      39
    • Scaled per gather: Easy non-consuming, yet end-game items several energy per gather
      83

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

182 posts in this topic

Posted

Well... you did minimal math if you consider counting to be math.. you didnt even add it all up to have a total sum of Energy Used.  You didn't consider that with one alt, you basically produce 500 energy every day. Id even give you like 150 because you have to sleep and work and what not.  You didnt consider your gain vs loss as far as energy is concerned.  You didn't consider that you can buy things from the marketplace.  You didn't actually tell us how much energy it takes to create the item assuming ideal conditions.  

you still here? Oo

Thought hipster kids are supposed to be sleeping around 10PM

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Posted

I really like the current system. Every single game is a balancing act between effort and gratification, and in BDO the energy constraints (frustrating as they can be in-the-moment) are one way in which the game enhances the sense of accomplishment at having completed a given effort. It's like playing Minecraft in survival mode versus Minecraft in creative mode - sure, in creative you could probably build some neat stuff with little time and effort, but so could everyone else and it wouldn't feel as impressive as if you'd done the exact same thing in survival.

THERE ARE FLAWS. Low-level crafting, because of the way the game is structured, is rarely worthwhile. Crafting as a profession doesn't seem like it would be very lucrative outside of specific very difficult and high-value items, and even then I just don't know how viable it would be. But I'm enjoying it so far. I see no problem and can't in good conscience support a change. If it doesn't feel broke, I'm not keen to fix it.

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Posted

I feel like this is something worth mentioning about the chat energy cost and having a helpful community; I noticed a lot of players asking questions and even though I knew the answer a few times I didn't want to use energy to help them. I felt a bit selfish, in every game I've ever played I always help others.

I think this might be effecting others like me (no proof but I didn't see ANY of the question answered).

There will always be chat trolls and gold spammers, it's just the nature of MMO's. But I don't want to see the helpful community die off.

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Posted

I feel like this is something worth mentioning about the chat energy cost and having a helpful community; I noticed a lot of players asking questions and even though I knew the answer a few times I didn't want to use energy to help them. I felt a bit selfish, in every game I've ever played I always help others.

I think this might be effecting others like me (no proof but I didn't see ANY of the question answered).

There will always be chat trolls and gold spammers, it's just the nature of MMO's. But I don't want to see the helpful community die off.

You could whisper them.  Whisper costs no energy.    

you still here? Oo

Thought hipster kids are supposed to be sleeping around 10PM

Yes.  I am still here.  I noticed you didn't actually respond to my statement... the one attempting to invalidate your claims, and showing that you have not actually proved anything at this point.  Is my postulation that you are here to confirm a bias instead of have actual discussion to be proven correct?  We shall see.. but I'm giving you responses that are thoughtful, and you're responding with... well... this... You claimed you wanted thoughtfulness in our response, but...

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Posted

edit : wich they don't.it's made so people don't craft higher level stuff in 2days.
you know mmo are supposed to take time.
for once in the last 10 years ONE mmo got this right. ( I don't count EVE )

youre right its better to let all the pleb crafters do all the work and just farm 1 drop and buy everything lol

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Posted

I didn't even waste MY energy to read this long post. All I can say is that the energy system is good, and if you manage it correctly you won't have any problems.

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Posted

youre right its better to let all the pleb crafters do all the work and just farm 1 drop and buy everything lol

that is not what I said.
but ok works for me I have 4 witch's earing to sell.

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Posted

I feel like this is something worth mentioning about the chat energy cost and having a helpful community; I noticed a lot of players asking questions and even though I knew the answer a few times I didn't want to use energy to help them. I felt a bit selfish, in every game I've ever played I always help others.

I think this might be effecting others like me (no proof but I didn't see ANY of the question answered).

There will always be chat trolls and gold spammers, it's just the nature of MMO's. But I don't want to see the helpful community die off.

Use whispers. In my experience questions are answered pretty quickly by the community either via whisper or a channel chat response.

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Posted

Nope, totally disagree, imho there's nothing wrong with the energy system in it's current state.

^^this.

the system is good and doesnt need change. especially not having a free use as suggested. that would totally ruin all crafting in game.

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Posted

that is not what I said.but ok works for me I have 4 witch's earing to sell.

thanks for continuing to make my point for me

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Posted (edited)

I've never played the KR version, and the biggest thing I've crafted is the calpheon ferry so far.

How does the KR version balance investing in nodes and conversations without the energy mechanic BTW?

Energy System exists in Korea/JP/RU. The BIG DIFFERENCE is that Production(Aka anything you press 'L" to process) is exempt from the system. 

I have posted this in other threads and have now edited it to reflect the 1 pt per 30 minutes regen for offline characters/alts.

Current Energy Level 115

Regeneration:

1 point 3 minutes online(on that char)

1 point 30 minutes offline(alts,turned off computer,etc)

Even at double the regeneration rate offline it would still be pretty bad. 

 

Online Regeneration time:

115(Energy) x 3(Minutes per point) = 345 Minutes / 60(Minutes per hour) = 5.75hrs Online for full Energy Restoration.

Offline Regeneration time:

115(Energy) x 30(Minutes per point) = 3450 Minutes / 60(Minutes per hour) = 57.5hrs / 24hrs(in a day)= 2.4 days

That's right DAYS.

Processing Cost: 

Wood/Ore/Beer:: 5 (Units) = 1 Completed Unit (Cost 1 Energy)

115 (Energy Points) x 5 (Units) = 575 Raw Materials that can be processed every 5.75 hrs or 2.4 days

Worker production:

 At an early level of worker managment and nodes my workers are producing anywhere from 1500 a day to 2000 units of raw material a day. I purchased Conqueror's pack so I have access to a total of 7 character slots.

My Main will have enough energy to process 575 units of raw material every 5.75hrs(Once a day) - Provided I do not do anything else with that Energy.

So lets say I get 2000 raw materials a day. (This will only increase as i get more workers/nodes and their skills increase)

2000 - 575 = 1425 Raw Materials left over. 

Alts: 

6(Characters) x 48(Points generated in a 24hr period) = 288 Energy

288(Energy) x 5(Raw Materials per Point) = 1440 Raw materials processed. 

Raw Materials: 1425 - 1440 = -15(This is a surplus of 15 Raw materials or 3 Energy Pts.)

So with these new numbers you can see I can process all the raw materials I produce in a day! This is great right? No this is not great at all. 

1.) All Energy is dedicated strictly to processing. There is nothing left over for conversations /node investment/amity /fishing /crafting /look for workers on the market / knowledge reset/ gathering/ hunting.

2.) My Processing is now split across 6 characters.I now have to level it up across all 6 wtf? This is not good gameplay

3.) It is clear that the market does not reflect the increased burden that Energy in processing puts on the player.

4.) I have 3 bonus character slots that most people do not have or wont buy. This is a paywall if a slightly hidden one.

Edited by Amun
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Posted

OK, I've been convinced by the math. I also have the same advantages and still feel the pain.

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Posted (edited)

I didn't even waste MY energy to read this long post. All I can say is that the energy system is good, and if you manage it correctly you won't have any problems.

 

sure, if you dont craft, dont gather, dont do daily that requier energy ( because gathering ) you sure dont have any problem.

Mean you spend all you game time grinding mob or doing quest that dont ask you for any craft ( or just somes little craft here and there )

Edited by woots

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Posted (edited)

Energy System exists in Korea/JP/RU. The BIG DIFFERENCE is that Production(Aka anything you press 'L" to process) is exempt from the system. 

I have posted this in other threads and have now edited it to reflect the 1 pt per 30 minutes regen for offline characters/alts.

Current Energy Level 115

Regeneration:

1 point 3 minutes online(on that char)

1 point 30 minutes offline(alts,turned off computer,etc)

Even at double the regeneration rate offline it would still be pretty bad. 

 

Online Regeneration time:

115(Energy) x 3(Minutes per point) = 345 Minutes / 60(Minutes per hour) = 5.75hrs Online for full Energy Restoration.

Offline Regeneration time:

115(Energy) x 30(Minutes per point) = 3450 Minutes / 60(Minutes per hour) = 57.5hrs / 24hrs(in a day)= 2.4 days

That's right DAYS.

Processing Cost: 

Wood/Ore/Beer:: 5 (Units) = 1 Completed Unit (Cost 1 Energy)

115 (Energy Points) x 5 (Units) = 575 Raw Materials that can be processed every 5.75 hrs or 4.8 days

Worker production:

 At an early level of worker managment and nodes my workers are producing anywhere from 1500 a day to 2000 units of raw material a day. I purchased Conqueror's pack so I have access to a total of 7 character slots.

My Main will have enough energy to process 575 units of raw material every 5.75hrs(Once a day) - Provided I do not do anything else with that Energy.

So lets say I get 2000 raw materials a day. (This will only increase as i get more workers/nodes and their skills increase)

2000 - 575 = 1425 Raw Materials left over. 

Alts: 

6(Characters) x 48(Points generated in a 24hr period) = 288 Energy

288(Energy) x 5(Raw Materials per Point) = 1440 Raw materials processed. 

Raw Materials: 1425 - 1440 = -15(This is a surplus of 15 Raw materials or 3 Energy Pts.)

So with these new numbers you can see I can process all the raw materials I produce in a day! This is great right? No this is not great at all. 

1.) All Energy is dedicated strictly to processing. There is nothing left over for conversations /node investment/amity /fishing /crafting /look for workers on the market / knowledge reset/ gathering/ hunting.

2.) My Processing is now split across 6 characters.I now have to level it up across all 6 wtf? This is not good gameplay

3.) It is clear that the market does not reflect the increased burden that Energy in processing puts on the player.

4.) I have 3 bonus character slots that most people do not have or wont buy. This is a paywall if a slightly hidden one.

I really appreciate the numbers provided.  Some notes however.  I think some of the processing can be done by workers instead of gathering.  You also set the gathering to the very max of what your range was.  If you assume the numbers are set to the highest point, then yes you are very likely to have the issues you're facing in this condition.  Does this take into consideration the Energy Potions provided for loyalty, and does it take into consideration laying in a bed as well?  I also heard that a node can become exhausted in a similar way that a fishing area can become exhausted.  Is this true?  Will that slow down the workers?

On the flip side, I think you're overestimating the Energy Gain for offline characters, which I think is set to 1 per hour.

To address your points individually:

1. If your concern is to be as efficient as possible with these results, and you dedicate everything to this one aspect of the game, then maybe that's all you should be able to do on this level.  Additionally you don't have to process everything you gather.  More importantly, all the gathering that you did the math on (which is great btw) can likely produce other benefits. The choice to use your energy efficiently or not is important to the discussion too.  I think we need to address what the end game benefits to all the resources can be.  Making a steel mining pick would... for example... probably be a waste of this awesome production that you have going.

2 - You do have an excellent point here.  Game design is bad.  World Building I think is better, because you're supposed to have this family aspect to the game.  It doesn't make it better to me personally, but this is a taste thing, and my taste inclines to agree with you on this issue.

3 - The market cannot reflect this due to the preset prices.  I think this is a different argument I think.  Feel free to show me if I'm wrong on this issue.

4 - Cant you get the character coupons with Loyalty?  

 

Edit: Side note... I think that this whole issue were dealing with is a good example of why I particularly want to have trading within a guild.  There are players (like me) who simply waste the energy and don't really use it to the full potential, but if my guild gave me stuff to process on their behalf, I would totally do it.

Edited by TheJayde

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Posted (edited)

I can live with energy for gathering, but mass production crafting requires a bit more of energy management than I would like.

Like my real life, my character is a chef. And like any other crafting in this game, cooking requires a little bit more of "building blocks" before you can actually create a dish.

For a quick example, currently I have 94 energy. In order to mass produce 50 Fruit Wine will require me to stay logged in for at least 72 hours ( as we know the offline energy rate gain is abysmal) as I would need my energy to produce 50 Exotic Herbal Wine first. Not to mention the required Essence of Liquor for both recipes. I can understand the energy system if this is a sub based MMO as the more you logged in, the more profit Daum will make. Yet this is not one of those, so I don't know why our L processing is being treated with energy when other regions do not.

I'm all for having processing energy free, even if it's just the basic processing with the L key.

Otherwise, the energy system has been pretty manageable. 

Edited by Towa

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Posted (edited)

I really appreciate the numbers provided.  Some notes however.  I think some of the processing can be done by workers instead of gathering.  You also set the gathering to the very max of what your range was.  If you assume the numbers are set to the highest point, then yes you are very likely to have the issues you're facing in this condition.  Does this take into consideration the Energy Potions provided for loyalty, and does it take into consideration laying in a bed as well?  I also heard that a node can become exhausted in a similar way that a fishing area can become exhausted.  Is this true?  Will that slow down the workers?

On the flip side, I think you're overestimating the Energy Gain for offline characters, which I think is set to 1 per hour.

To address your points individually:

1. If your concern is to be as efficient as possible with these results, and you dedicate everything to this one aspect of the game, then maybe that's all you should be able to do on this level.  Additionally you don't have to process everything you gather.  More importantly, all the gathering that you did the math on (which is great btw) can likely produce other benefits. The choice to use your energy efficiently or not is important to the discussion too.  I think we need to address what the end game benefits to all the resources can be.  Making a steel mining pick would... for example... probably be a waste of this awesome production that you have going.

2 - You do have an excellent point here.  Game design is bad.  World Building I think is better, because you're supposed to have this family aspect to the game.  It doesn't make it better to me personally, but this is a taste thing, and my taste inclines to agree with you on this issue.

3 - The market cannot reflect this due to the preset prices.  I think this is a different argument I think.  Feel free to show me if I'm wrong on this issue.

4 - Cant you get the character coupons with Loyalty?  

 

Yea sorry I set it to what I am generating now. I have expanded and collected more nodes/workers. 

1.) I totally agree that Energy management should be a thing. I love balancing my Energy costs for conversations/worker gambling/Node Investment/etc. I just think it should not be a part of anything you Press L for. (Please note I do not advocate Energy cost being taken away from anything that requires the use of a utensil). I think things should cost Energy! I like the fact that cooking beer for my workers costs energy and eventually down the road I look forward to Alchemy having a cost(As long as this cost is passed onto the market value of the goods produced). 

2.) I am definitely a one character kind of guy and the fact that i have to have alts just for their 48pts of energy before I even know what i really want to do with them is unfortunate. 

3.) Agree with this. I honestly think Daum wanted to give the game a more western flavor while staggering growth with additional Energy costs, However, the prices we see in the market are the same prices we see in Korea. (I would have to find the post that dealt with this but the floors/ceilings of prices is the exact same). This is not good for the the users of the crafting system. If we could set our own prices I do not think I would mind nearly as much. (Just wanted to say this includes trade packs which should go up in value drastically to show the energy invested into them)

4.) You can buy character slots off the loyalty store for 5,000 loyalty points. This is 50 DAYS. 5 slots x 50 days = 250 days of logging into Black Desert. 

 

Edited by Amun

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Posted (edited)

 

sure, if you dont craft, dont gather, dont do daily that requier energy ( because gathering ) you sure dont have any problem.

Mean you spend all you game time grinding mob or doing quest that dont ask you for any craft ( or just somes little craft here and there )

then I'm sorry to dissapoint you, but I'm actually a fulltime gatherer and crafter in 2 professions in top30 most of the time.

As I said, manage your energy-ressources correctly and you won't have any problems.

 

edit: and btw, I can't vote in this poll, due to a missing option in the second question.

 

Edited by Distiller
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Posted (edited)

Now I have got my head around using Energy for talking in world chat through to conversations and crafting I like the idea and think more mmo's should incorporate it as well. It stops world chat spam which help stops gold seller spam. It also means you have to do other things in the game other than craft and gather.

Energy is easy to level up as well when you know how to do it.

Also I can't vote in the poll as it is missing an option on the second part.

Edited by Delte

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Posted

Why are so many people -----ing about the energy system, it is fine. You gain 1 energy every 3 minutes and gathering and shit like that usually only requires 1 energy and when you have 80+ energy it doesn't really matter. Get more energy or just get workers to do the gathering for you. You can do a combination of both.

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Posted

just remove energy altogether it's dumb

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Posted

Having played KR & RU (RU has our energy system... at least for the free servers.  I heard somewhere that they removed it for P2P?), I actually don't mind the energy use in processing.  Yes, it does slow down progress... but it also makes me manage my energy efficiently using my alts (which can be a hassle, I know) and specializing on certain things to progress further.  

I can see it both ways.  If it didn't cost energy, I think the market would have been flooded with all the crap now and everyone rolling in the best wagon & ships.  There are, even with the energy use, a few who dedicated a lot of energy & efforts into getting those wagons or processing higher tier mats already, which is pretty awesome to see.  We'll all get there and I noticed that the % of crit and no energy use at higher levels make life skill leveling faster.  I also have been hitting up those daily life skill quests for exp + energy+ contribution points + mats.

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Posted

Energy has a purpose in our version. Otherwise the bottleneck for production is silver. It adds another layer of choice to the game. For example do i craft milky tea my self and spend energy or do i buy it off the market for silver? What is more valuable to me at the moment silver or energy? If anything should chance it should be increasing the value of gathered materials so milking cows or collecting pine sap can be as viable a career as crafting the end product.

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Posted

The game focuses around energy, you knew this going in...or maybe not which would be your fault as this has been out in Korea for awhile. Nothing needs to be changed, just like trading.

Every other thread is about changing something from what it currently is, if you don't like the game don't play it, stop trying to change it into something it's not.

If you need me I'll be waiting for the we need fast travel threads.

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Posted

I think its fine. You gits are so used to having everything RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW. No wonder the majority of you are obese and lazy.

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Posted

Energy has a purpose in our version. Otherwise the bottleneck for production is silver. It adds another layer of choice to the game. For example do i craft milky tea my self and spend energy or do i buy it off the market for silver? What is more valuable to me at the moment silver or energy? If anything should chance it should be increasing the value of gathered materials so milking cows or collecting pine sap can be as viable a career as crafting the end product.

Cool idea you sir,however forgot that if many people choose to buy stuff instead of gather/produce/craft it ... there will be much to buy from at the market now, will there? >.>

I think its fine. You gits are so used to having everything RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW. No wonder the majority of you are obese and lazy.

Aha, so I should waste my life-span playing a game because it is made to take SOOOOOOOO F***IIIIIIIIIIING LOOOOOOOOOOONG. No TY! games are supposed to be fun and not AFK fishing/sleeping/etc. to horde back energy points.

Let's give example of another game, let's say Guild Wars 2, ... that game is very close to this game, and works VERY well. Also B2P model. No energy system and free market based on "recommended price" that many ppl use so it won't collapse by the side of cash.

Personally I feel scammed since this game costs 30 EUR per key only and I even supported them and paid more for pre-order.

 

PS: As many ppl like you, Mr. Jayde or Mr. Avenger, actually exist, things like this will never change, because ignorant few prefer to stay hipsters who only feel obliged to "work against the conspiracy" of some sort or s**t like that. And most of ppl who voted for the change don't bother stating their ideas or opinion at the thread, unlike many of those who are against for some funny reason.

YET! ... Pool speaks the truth now, doesn't it. and seems like people want a change ;)

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