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End game PVE?

137 posts in this topic

Posted

Channels are instances. I agree that they're different, as I explained before, but they're instances of the entirety of the game world, running in parallel to each other, which means one does not affect the other. However the players from Channel X are isolated from the players of all the other channels at any given time. I was just using this as an example as to why BDO isn't instance-free, just as a side argument, it's somewhat irrelevant to my main point.

Then why not add zones? Would it be that bad? The main point is that BDO's PvE endgame is almost non-existant (crafting, trading, etc is alright, but not enough for an Action-Combat based MMO), effectively making BDO a niche MMO (for PvP lovers) neglecting an arguably large piece of the market (anyone who likes endgame PvE).

World Bosses are a step in the right direction but from what I've seen, they feel like just another grind, I know the game is PvP-focused but geez, they're literally keeping me and many other players away from such a great, intricate game because we don't like PvP that much, it feels more PvP-only than PvP-focused.

 

They are adding more PvE content. KR just got two new non instanced group dungeons. Adding PvE content takes time. It is not something that is done over night. That said, not all games are for everyone. Not all games have to have some deep PvE if that is not their main focus.

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Posted (edited)

A game can be open world and have instanced dungeons.

Example: WoW

good joke m8. 

Pvp died a long time agi thanks to the pve people and why the game is losing interest.

Didnt play for years but gearing from it it seems purely instanced. Open world to stay afk there in a safe city.

Raids and shit might be fun... for 1 or 2 runs. I wouldnt want to repeat myself like a robot. Mauling on scripted mobs standing on predefined locations. I would go insane.

I liked open world pvp in wow. Was super fun.

Pve content takes time to create. And the problem to that is that people get fed way go fast and scream for next instance. Thafs when you run the same instance for 500 times for loot just to stay afk in the city.

Thats why lol/dota  (or old popular pvp mmos) is so popular: because its a pvp game. The content is there and its called pvp. You will never have to create something (except champs) because pvp doesnt get old and is always different.

 

Keep the write errors. Im ob phone and it drives me insane 

Edited by Salbe

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Posted

I played up to WoTLK, which was arguably WoW's peak.

And you're right, that's why if I want a fully-PvP game I'll play LoL where it's all about skill and teamplay, and rank actually means something.

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Posted

They are adding more PvE content. KR just got two new non instanced group dungeons. Adding PvE content takes time. It is not something that is done over night. That said, not all games are for everyone. Not all games have to have some deep PvE if that is not their main focus.

But the west love PVE :P People love RPG, Raids, 5mans, Bosses etc.

 

we see that in every mmo, people are crying for faster and more PVE, never PVP in that scale . so if this game ONLY are for PVPers from start to end, then it will only be for a samll player base

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Posted

Channels are instances. I agree that they're different, as I explained before, but they're instances of the entirety of the game world, running in parallel to each other, which means one does not affect the other. However the players from Channel X are isolated from the players of all the other channels at any given time. I was just using this as an example as to why BDO isn't instance-free, just as a side argument, it's somewhat irrelevant to my main point.

Then why not add zones? Would it be that bad? The main point is that BDO's PvE endgame is almost non-existant (crafting, trading, etc is alright, but not enough for an Action-Combat based MMO), effectively making BDO a niche MMO (for PvP lovers) neglecting an arguably large piece of the market (anyone who likes endgame PvE).

World Bosses are a step in the right direction but from what I've seen, they feel like just another grind, I know the game is PvP-focused but geez, they're literally keeping me and many other players away from such a great, intricate game because we don't like PvP that much, it feels more PvP-only than PvP-focused

I agree, I don't see why PvP and PvE cannot co-exist. Most sand box games from a time way before theme park MMOs were able to pull this off with no problem. All you have to do is sanction the maps off to different play rules. Certain areas are PvE only and you are able to get what you need to harvest/craft and lvl from these zones but at a slower speed. These areas can be listed as "under protection" of the kingdom for all I care and have higher taxes. Then you have the other side of the map which is higher risk more reward. Open PvP, mobs even though are the same lvl are harder and they drop more gold/exp and loots. You can even harvest more or rarer materials more often from resource nodes. Make it worth it for a casual PvPer to risk it. Those who stay in PvP zones reap the rewards all the time. Those who are just there to PvE can do there thing and enjoy there time at a slower rate. As said before why are you going to bash additional content? More content brings more players which brings more money to develop more content and expand the game including more PvP content. 

The biggest complaint I keep hearing as to limiting PvE is because there will be no one left to PvP with. If this is the case this tells me that maybe most people don't want to be forced into PvP in the first place then. Or may be there just isn't enough incentive to play PvP. To say everyone must be forced to PvP other wise I have no one to play with is just the wrong direction. 

 

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Posted

Haven't been involved in the CB1, but sounds like this could do with "Dungeons" in the way EQ1 and EQ2 did them.  

Basically same format as instanced dungeons in WOW, were there are anywhere from 5 - 20+ boss/named mobs that are just part of the normal spawn rotation (some are rare spawns) in set locations (ie, the throne room of an old ruin), but the area is open to solo adventurers, groups and raids... they just organically formed as the amount of people in the area changed.  This would suit the "get people out of queues in towns" scenarios and into the world, and could even result in some great in-dungeon PVP if 2 groups from opposing factions are looking to camp and farm a high end named mob spot.

Makes it harder/more competitive to fight over good spots(compared to just queueing/joining), but seriously awesome/rewarding fun when an organic group smashes open dungeon when other groups are on your tail.

Sounds like this game would work really well around this style of mechanic.

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Posted

The biggest complaint I keep hearing as to limiting PvE is because there will be no one left to PvP with. If this is the case this tells me that maybe most people don't want to be forced into PvP in the first place then. Or may be there just isn't enough incentive to play PvP. To say everyone must be forced to PvP other wise I have no one to play with is just the wrong direction. 

Question: Did you register on the forum just to complain about the Open World pvp? Looking at your post history, that's seriously how it appears, and this little tidbit I just quoted supports that.

I'm sorry, but you truly don't understand this game. Each thread I've encountered you on... sigh. How the heck did you get the opinion that people don't want more PVE "because there will be no one left to PVP with"? Please, enlighten me.

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Posted

If they do add instanced dungeons, it should all be connected so that anyone can enter your dungeon and kill you or steal it. Also you should only be able to enter a dungeon through a portal in the dungeon area rather than queued from a town. 

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Posted (edited)

Instanced dungeons? Faster leveling? Fast travel? Flying mounts? PvE servers? Harsh karma punishment?

Can we stop it with the carebear crap suggestions already? It hurts my head.

I don't mind if they add dungeons at some later point, but PvE should never be the focus of this game and those dungeons should DEFINITELY not be instanced. Full PvP dungeons that are worth killing over please.

Edited by AngelofAwe

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Posted

Instanced dungeons? Faster leveling? Fast travel? Flying mounts? PvE servers? Harsh karma punishment?

Can we stop it with the carebear crap suggestions already? It hurts my head.

I don't mind if they add dungeons at some later point, but PvE should never be the focus of this game and those dungeons should DEFINITELY not be instanced. Full PvP dungeons that are worth killing over please.

Why shouldn't they be instanced? Explain.

This might come to a shocker to you but instanced content is coming to BDO, 3v3 combat is instanced and the sinkhole dungeon is no less.

We're not requesting for the game to be PvE-focused, we're just asking for something that's more than just grinding.

The dungeons can still be accessible to anyone, full PvP.

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Posted

Why shouldn't they be instanced? Explain.

This might come to a shocker to you but instanced content is coming to BDO, 3v3 combat is instanced and the sinkhole dungeon is no less.

We're not requesting for the game to be PvE-focused, we're just asking for something that's more than just grinding.

The dungeons can still be accessible to anyone, full PvP.

the 3v3 is arena there is no mobs grinding inside and the sinkhole dung is open world dung not instanced

 

instances kill owpvp , best example is lineage2 , it started with no instanced dungs and there was lots of pvp for the top grinding spots , then they started adding more and more daily dungeons , so now its at a point where ppl log in do 3-6 hours of instances and log off resulting in dead owpvp

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Posted

the 3v3 is arena there is no mobs grinding inside and the sinkhole dung is open world dung not instanced

 

instances kill owpvp , best example is lineage2 , it started with no instanced dungs and there was lots of pvp for the top grinding spots , then they started adding more and more daily dungeons , so now its at a point where ppl log in do 3-6 hours of instances and log off resulting in dead owpvp

Instanced doesn't necessarily mean only you and party members can get in, anyone could get in and everyone would be fighting in the dungeon.

The sinkhole dungeon has a loading time once you enter it, which means it's separated from the main world, there's no seamless transition from the overworld to the sinkhole dungeon and viceversa.

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Posted

Agree instances "even when you have to zone in at the location" prevent world pvp. Yes you get little battles at zone in, but that's it... People zone in and bail when things get tough. 

To cater to pve while strengthening pvp, Instance style content just needs to be implemented INTO the openworld like it was in EQ and in part some of vanilla wow (elite areas).

Imagine a small catacombs in the side of a hill (no instance but part of the world) were the top floor has soloable mob groups and some mild 'named' boss type mobs but as you get deeper into the catacombs they start getting harder, requiring a group then possibly a raid with better rewards the deeper you go (note: not instance so mobs are on spawn times) with a theoretic boss at the end to do with the story of the catacombs. .. But the whole time a solo, group or raid of the opposing faction could be trying to clear the same area.  Boom on like donkey Kong. 

Give these named mobs specific loot tables that are worth the risk of having to actually fight for your prize and you have a real challenging pve enviroment that could breed some heavy organic world pvp. 

 

Loved these areas in eq1/2 days from combined pve and pvp side of things trying to hold down a good farming spot. 

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Posted

If anyone can get in, why even bother with instanced? What is the benefit?

You sure you're not just overly used to instanced areas and are finding it hard to break away from them?

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Posted

If anyone can get in, why even bother with instanced? What is the benefit?

You sure you're not just overly used to instanced areas and are finding it hard to break away from them?

Well, sometimes if you want dungeons around the same area it could be troublesome trying to make sure they don't get too close or overlap, etc. Of course, just having good planning for the layouts gets around this.

I don't really care if the dungeons are instanced or open world, I'll go through them either way. And if they didn't exist at all, I'd still play the PVP.

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Posted

Well, sometimes if you want dungeons around the same area it could be troublesome trying to make sure they don't get too close or overlap, etc. Of course, just having good planning for the layouts gets around this.
I don't really care if the dungeons are instanced or open world, I'll go through them either way. And if they didn't exist at all, I'd still play the PVP.

I personally find the current OW dungeons, that I've explored, are well done.

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Posted

Question: Did you register on the forum just to complain about the Open World pvp? Looking at your post history, that's seriously how it appears, and this little tidbit I just quoted supports that.

I'm sorry, but you truly don't understand this game. Each thread I've encountered you on... sigh. How the heck did you get the opinion that people don't want more PVE "because there will be no one left to PVP with"? Please, enlighten me.

To answer your question, no I have already purchased the game, bought two copies for my wife and I. I have no problem with OWPvP, I played Linage 2 and Shadow Bane both for a good amount of time until they about failed in the Western Market. I just personally don't think someone should be forced into it when that is not there cup of tea. There is so much potential for BDO, so much that has already been built off of a PvE system. If the game were merely about PvP, there would be no point is putting in quest and lvling. Just give you an open map and let you stab each other in the back.

If you have read my post as you are so worried about stalking me across the forums you would know that I am more in favor of PvP/PvE hybrid system going back to the Ultima Online days which strengthens both sides of the spectrum. Hence really the first "sandbox" MMO. The game is still running, go look it up. The only reason why it is not still played today but for the die hards is the lack 2D to 3D graphical overhaul (cost "way" too much as the amount of sandbox content, might as well build a new game) as well as some really bad skill balancing systems brought in by later expansions. I played well into the 7th year before moving onto Linage 2.

As to answer your last question, again read the other forums you are stalking me on. Try to read all the post not just mine and what you want to read.     

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Posted

I personally find the current OW dungeons, that I've explored, are well done.

Well, I haven't seen too much of the game yet since I'm trying to make sure I have room to explore when the game comes out for NA/EU. And I'm not judging the dungeons anyways, I'm just trying to reason out why they'd go with instancing. Best to think on both sides of an argument, after all!

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Posted

Kalmortia......... Stalking? Sweetie, you think too highly of yourself.

I didn't question if you had purchased the game. Please reread my first sentence carefully.

It's spelled "L-I-N-E-A-G-E".

Have you played any recent popular MMORPGs?

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Posted

Kalmortia......... Stalking? Sweetie, you think too highly of yourself.

I didn't question if you had purchased the game. Please reread my first sentence carefully.

It's spelled "L-I-N-E-A-G-E".

Have you played any recent popular MMORPGs?

Great, you can point out a typo. Congrats you have earned your spelling patch. I thought it was pretty self explanatory that if I bought the game and played CBT-1 that I also have a forum account, kinda comes with it. So no I did not just create one to get on a post my so call OWPvP hatred propaganda. Let me get my commie sickle and hammer *one min.* 

If it pleases you to know more about me then I will give you the whole scoop. Here is my MMO history: Ultima Online, Ever Quest 1 and 2, Dark Age of Camelot,"L-i-n-e-a-g-e" 2, Shadow Bane, Secret World, Rift, Guild wars 1 and 2, (you should remember this one as you hate it so much, guess what it is current), Final Fantasy 11 and 14, Tera, Archage, Elder Scrolls Online, Skyforge, Probably missed some in there, but I think that should be enough for you.   

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Posted

Great, you can point out a typo. Congrats you have earned your spelling patch. I thought it was pretty self explanatory that if I bought the game and played CBT-1 that I also have a forum account, kinda comes with it. So no I did not just create one to get on a post my so call OWPvP hatred propaganda. Let me get my commie sickle and hammer *one min.* 

If it pleases you to know more about me then I will give you the whole scoop. Here is my MMO history: Ultima Online, Ever Quest 1 and 2, Dark Age of Camelot,"L-i-n-e-a-g-e" 2, Shadow Bane, Secret World, Rift, Guild wars 1 and 2, (you should remember this one as you hate it so much, guess what it is current), Final Fantasy 11 and 14, Tera, Archage, Elder Scrolls Online, Skyforge, Probably missed some in there, but I think that should be enough for you.   

A typo you committed multiple times.

Forum accounts can be made by anyone, regardless of whether or not they've purchased BDO.

Seems to me that you hop around quite a bit, unless you also listed ones you simply tried out of curiosity.

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Posted

Chill @Reigne Irkalla @Kalmortia

No need to get personal, back on topic please

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Posted

I think OW dungeons would be good. And make sure its open world so that you can actually have multiple groups fighting over it at once. And the best group for the channel can basically farm or lock down the dungeon and only allow entry to those that can either beat them or pay a certain "price"

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Posted

That's the thing. .. If done right you can have multiple groups farming a single open dungeon. In eq1 and 2 for instance a group woukd hold a specific room/area containing anywhere from 2-6 named spawns and just grind it over and over. Remember some areas having up to 40 named mobs. .  In totalso plentyto share.

But on different spawn timers and not always doing their loot. So getting/Farm was nessesary.

Sounds like the go kill stuff leveling is very similar to eq as quests were few and far between

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Posted

Hi all,

        New to these forums and this game as I only came across it in the last few months. Just bought it to give it a try for CB2 because it looks like it is going to be a lot of fun and I like the art style. With that said just reading on this topic a lot of people shooting down PVE stuff and instanced dungeons. I wouldn't mind seeing a bit of both in this game. Look at what asheron's call (not the second one that was a bloody mess) did. PVE and PVP servers. PVP was no safe zones anywhere not even in town. Also there dungeons where instanced (which in a long game is a smart way to do saves on real-estate in the long run and give dev's a wider scope to play with). With the instanced dungeons some where free for anyone to go in and pvp and some where group bound. Where as the PVE servers the towns where safe and the instances where safe for people to do as they like and the rest of the world was split up. Got to have options in a game to allow people to get away from one thing or another and still feel like there time is well spent.  When OWPVP is done right it can be a great thing but when its done bad you get bored guild camping lowbie zones and dungeons.  Got to remember also even guild wars 2 is adding raids for there players and they are for the most part there competition in the buy to play mmo's. so long story short don't be so quick to shoot down PVE stuff it can bring in more players who might be willing to also go out of there comfort zone and give pvp a try once in awhile if they know they have something to fall back on.

 

Looking forward to seeing you in game once CB2 starts :)

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