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End game PVE?

137 posts in this topic

Posted

By the time we get endgame PvE content that isn't just hp sponge mobs, the PvEers will be long gone. It will be 3-6 months before we even get the Valencia part 2 update, and I've heard of nothing new for PvE beyond hp sponge mobs and world bosses in the pipeline. There is a reason people say that if you don't like PvP, to move on from this game and it is because there isn't endgame PvE and won't be in any timely manner.

There are plenty of games that launch with no end game content, the player base dies down and then returns 3-6  months later to see what has been added. And as others have already stated there is plenty of PvE end game it is just not in the form of the traditional "theme park" sense of dungeons and tier raids. There is still crafting, farming, fishing, breeding, open world delving, housing, etc.I hate to tell you I think your just stuck with PvEers. *shrugs*

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Posted (edited)

There are plenty of games that launch with no end game content, the player base dies down and then returns 3-6  months later to see what has been added. And as others have already stated there is plenty of PvE end game it is just not in the form of the traditional "theme park" sense of dungeons and tier raids. There is still crafting, farming, fishing, breeding, open world delving, housing, etc.I hate to tell you I think your just stuck with PvEers. *shrugs*

I'm not against PvEers. I'm just stating what has held true for every game that has come out recently. Even with endgame content, they are stated to have none. Games like AA and SWTOR had more endgame PvE and still had claims of no endgame content.

Crafting, delving, housing, fishing and breeding are not endgame at all. Crafting, fishing, farming, and pretty much any money making thing is just as much PvP as they fund your ability to progress to be competitive in PvP. They are simply activities that you can do no matter what level you are. In the end the only thing for PvEers to do is just grind mobs. Also again, 3-6 months is how long it will take us to get the Valencia content, which is just more of the same mob grinding. PvEers in the west expect those themepark quality endgame PvE and when they don't get it, they leave.

Edited by Noth
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Posted

Some people need to reconsider what they consider to be PvE...... it isn't just raiding and dungeons and whatnot.

As I've said before, BDO won't hold your hand. The devs have given us a world to live other lives in.

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Posted

Allot of ppl are annoyed that it isn't traditional but then we have to ask ourselves if we keep hounding devs to stick to the same ole ver of traditional we are stopping them from experimenting and trying to evolve  the  old definition of traditional  and stifling their creativity on trying to create something new and exciting. I am not saying what they have right now is awesome as i have not tried it but i am saying we shouldn't wag our fingers at something that is new and experimental until we've tried it thoroughly.

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Posted

I hate, when everybody think, better PVE = stronger/challenging mobs and instances. All other game do that. And i hate all other game. Thats why i want BDO. Instances = wait for other players, u depends on other players, and unable to find the best items without others. But if u have a job, or u cant always play with them, when THEY want, u will be unable to join a progress guild. So u must party up with a tons of unknown player, and u will die coz of others mistakes. And i dont want waste my time/money coz of others. If i have time to play, i dont want to wait for others. Dont need instances, coz instances just a lock out of cusual players to earn anything valuable. Like in wow. If u dont have archivement of heroic HFC, nobody inv you to a heroic HFC. So u are unable to get that archivement, wich needed to get it, and u stuck there with a crappy gear. And if u are not a HC player, u are unable to join a good guild, which can get the archivement for you, or help with a better gear.

And i dont need "challenging" mobs. In BnS, they are "challenging". Knock u down, stun you, etc. Finaly, u always beat them, but u always try to avoid mobs, coz it takes more and more time as u level up. And as your weapon gets better for a tons of gold/items, the mosnters always needs more time to beat on your actual level. I hate bns coz of this. At the start of the game, i was able to kill a mob with 1-2 good skill. And in the "endgame" a single trash mob needs more than 4-5 skill combination with the current top weapon in the EU release. (And the soulstone limit, marketplace limit, daily quest limit, all other fuked limit.)

If somebody want to play instances, and challenging, hard mobs, just go and play ANY other mmo. Dont try to force BDO become same, as ANY other mmo.

Funny, coz everybody arguing about engame. They came from other mmo, where they become boored, where the engame was the same, what they want from BDO. Dont try to force wow things to BDO. If somebody want wow like content, GO TO WOW, or arguing to blizzard, to get BDO-s engine. Let BDO be unique.

Finaly. This game looks like perfect. Good crafting, easy grind with good items/knowledge. Good gear is obtainable alone, and dont need weeks of praying for a group, where always others got the loot what u want, and u dont need to wait one more week for a new CHANCE for that item. And i dont want to upgrade my gear, just for survive higher levels. I want to hit hard, and kill tons of mobs with 1-2 shot. Thats how i feel rewarding some gear upgrade.

And finaly, if a mob can drop items, which worth grinding, or could be a part of your best gear, that cannot be a trash mob. If a mob just waste your time, coz too challenging, but drops nothing, thats called trash mob. So in BDO, its looks like, there are no trash mob. If some mob doesnt drop enought good, u just skip/ignore them. In other MMO-s instances, unable to skip trash mobs.

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Posted

DaoC had one of the best pvp worlds and a excelent pve (not perfect) and this game had instanced dungeons, open dungeons hard mobs, soft mobs, etc...

I think its a good reference now a days to make a good mmo or just to add in later patches. I know i know... its a lot of work, i dont expect anything changes soon... or never...

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Posted

DaoC had one of the best pvp worlds and a excelent pve (not perfect) and this game had instanced dungeons, open dungeons hard mobs, soft mobs, etc...

I think its a good reference now a days to make a good mmo or just to add in later patches. I know i know... its a lot of work, i dont expect anything changes soon... or never...

If you speak about DaoC... CU will come out in a few months, and funny enough, there probably won't be any PvE-Content there either.

Since ESO I don't have high expectations of future updates in games anymore.

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Posted

4 pages on this topic? Now i know something is wrong - There isnt enough PVE content to justify this many posts...

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Posted

I've played all sorts of MMORPGS with PvE endgame content that I never got into mainly because it felt repetitive and boring. Though this game seems to lack endgame PvE content, which I usually prefer over PvP, it seems varied and interesting enough to keep my interest going for a long time. I very much like the fact that it's taking a more unique approach than other MMORPGs out there.

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Posted

I think the issue lies in the expectation of the PVP/PVE er's

The PVPers want the ability to engage with other players at any point in the game which they will get from OWPVP but are concerned about the PVEers hiding in instances and never coming out of town.

The PVEers want the ability to obtain really good gear without being murdered each time they go out of town.

The solution doesn't lie with adding instances or opening the whole world to pvp it lies in bridging the 2 together.

I'm sure the flamers will jump all over at the mention of this but WoW had it right in its first "Vanilla" version of the game. There were instances that had to be accessed from certain points on the map that both sides, way back before queuing for a random group with one button from town was around. You had to march your happy ass out to the instance entrance and there was a good chance you would bump into a hostile player and get your ass kicked. This encouraged people to go out to the instances in groups and many a large scale war was started just from a few players getting into a scrap...a few of you die, have a rant in guild chat, half your guild mounts up and avenges your deaths, the other guild follow suit and battle commences.

PVP and PVE shouldnt be mutually exclusive they should coincide and the easiest way to do this is to place instance entrances in pvp areas, at least this would give the pvp some focus points because as fun as OWPVP sounds it will ultimately lead to single players or groups of players randomly roaming around the world looking for a fair fight which they probably won't find and will just end up grieving the stray PVE'ers they find along the way.

Personally i love pvp and really enjoy the thrill of team work and strategy to beat another team of players. World pvp doesnt really do much for me as i find there are too many variables that lead to an unequal fight like large level difference, unbeatable odds (5v1 etc) environment disadvantage (being nailed by an archer whilst in the middle of a pve fight) i'm sure there are many more ...we've all experienced it and it never leaves you with a warm and fuzzy feeling and if the end game content of BDO is based off of that model then it does not bode well for retaining an active player base.

Embrace the co-existence, try and suggest ways to keep both aspects of the game tied to each other instead of ragging on each other.

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Posted

The PVEers want the ability to obtain really good gear without being murdered each time they go out of town.

And what exactly are PvErs supposed to do with that really good gear if they dont plan to PvP?

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Posted

Thats a question for all MMO's in general... what do you do when you have the best stuff in the game? usually one of three things happen

1. PVP

2. Create an Alt

3. Retire and find something else to play

At least by having instance rewards the PVE'ers would hang around and would still engage in pvp by trying to get to those instance. If they aren't there in the first place then the active player base will start to decline as the PVE'ers will get bored and the server will be left with a hardcore PVP player base struggling to get their daily fix of kills.

Although saying that, here's a question for the hardcore pvpers...

Should there be an option to queue for pvp battles, 5v5, base capture, capture the flag, etc? essentially those are the pvp instances as they tend to come with rewards and if those should be in the game then is it also fair to put in pve based instances as well to appease both style of player?

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Posted

Thats a question for all MMO's in general... what do you do when you have the best stuff in the game? usually one of three things happen

1. PVP

2. Create an Alt

3. Retire and find something else to play

At least by having instance rewards the PVE'ers would hang around and would still engage in pvp by trying to get to those instance. If they aren't there in the first place then the active player base will start to decline as the PVE'ers will get bored and the server will be left with a hardcore PVP player base struggling to get their daily fix of kills.

Although saying that, here's a question for the hardcore pvpers...

Should there be an option to queue for pvp battles, 5v5, base capture, capture the flag, etc? essentially those are the pvp instances as they tend to come with rewards and if those should be in the game then is it also fair to put in pve based instances as well to appease both style of player?

The devs said in an interview with the press a few months back that they were looking into having NPC henchmen that players could equip and level up, maybe even bring into battle. The experience of leveling and equipping a squad of followers sounds like a fun timesink/challenge. Even if you yourself didn't PvP, if you could loan your soldiers to your guild for guildwars, or send them out to escort node workers or traderun escort duties would also be an interesting addition to gameplay.

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Posted

PvE'ing until end game IS the end game...then the PvP begins. :)

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Posted

PvE'ing until end game IS the end game...then the PvP begins. :)

If that really is the viewpoint of a "pvper" then why bother with any game that incorporates a leveling system? might as well just play a game like LoL where all players are the same level and the variation comes from the class select.

Personally i think i managed to play LoL for around 45 minutes then uninstalled, MOBA's just aren't for me i need more content than just PVP

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If that really is the viewpoint of a "pvper" then why bother with any game that incorporates a leveling system? might as well just play a game like LoL where all players are the same level and the variation comes from the class select.

Personally i think i managed to play LoL for around 45 minutes then uninstalled, MOBA's just aren't for me i need more content than just PVP

hi, I used to play a lot of mmorpg and then someone talks to me about lol, but I didn't like the idea that every match everybody are lv 1 again...
that sucks, I though....  but I don't know, I played it for mmmm 1 month I think, and I see the real thing of that game
the pvp, rlly Im a  PVPer because I rrly rllly love to win, yeah Im so competitive( and flamer :P) haha that's why I love PVP and then this game appears(also the beauty girls *-*)
2 things that I LOVE PVP+MMO
:D 

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Posted

If that really is the viewpoint of a "pvper" then why bother with any game that incorporates a leveling system? might as well just play a game like LoL where all players are the same level and the variation comes from the class select.

Personally i think i managed to play LoL for around 45 minutes then uninstalled, MOBA's just aren't for me i need more content than just PVP

You really have to ask?  Because a lot of the PvP'ers in this forum are not PvP'ers...because they suck and can't challenge.  They want easy kills.  Never ever understood why anyone who dislikes anything 'other than' PvP, would play any MMORPG...

Lots of pure pvp games out there...but...

Refer back to first paragraph ;)

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Posted

I bet that more than half of people crying about lack of raids haven't even killed heroic Archimonde.

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Anyone can be a pvper, the requirements are that you have to compete against another player. You don't have to win to be a pvper you just have to compete.

The difference between this game and most others is that most others contain pvp within an instance, a battle that you have to sign up for or queue for, with teams and rules and set number of players and usually some form of objective to decide who "wins" the battle.

Open World pvp disregards all of that. There is no objective, no balance, no rules ... the win IS the kill and the only way it is quantified is with an arbitrary number of kills. I don't think there has ever been a case where someone has been worshiped as a "great pvper" because that person has only ever fought 5 fights but all 5 were against 10 players at the same time and they showed amazing skills and focus to "win"...no one cares about that, all they care about is the total amount of kills as Open World does not have any sort of "Win" system.

Any game that embraces Open World pvp has to acknowledge that players will do anything they can to get their kill count up and the vast majority of kill counts will be generated by unbalanced and unfair skirmishes. Am i complaining about this? nope. Am i saying it should be taken out? Absolutely not.

What i am saying is that for any game to be successful it has to retain it's player base and every MMO is going to consist players who enjoy pvp and prefer to engage in that style of combat and others that prefer the pve style of play and to make any game's "End Game" content strictly PVP or PVE is to ostracize a large group of the overall player base.

For some reason people get really uptight and defensive when they talk about this subject. As soon as the words "instance" are mumbled there is always someone ready to counter with "themepark" which then triggers "sandbox" and "carebear" and my favorite "go back to <insert game name here>.....Forget gaming for a second lets make it simple. How well do you think Starbucks would do if they only sold plain, medium roast, black coffee...no cream, no sugar, no foam or shots or whatever else they put in coffee nowadays. If Starbucks stuck to that model then they would lose huge amounts of business..people want choice!

Now think how you would feel if each time you went into Starbucks and ordered a Light Roast with cream and sugar a bunch of people at the tables started yelling at you and pointing and laughing at you because you "couldn't handle" a straight black coffee and cream and sugar is for cowards and if you want cream and sugar you should go to a "Carebear" coffee house.......when using a Starbucks analogy it sounds pretty dumb huh.

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Posted

If that really is the viewpoint of a "pvper" then why bother with any game that incorporates a leveling system? might as well just play a game like LoL where all players are the same level and the variation comes from the class select.

Personally i think i managed to play LoL for around 45 minutes then uninstalled, MOBA's just aren't for me i need more content than just PVP

I was being sarcastic, sorry.  I actually enjoy both aspects of PvE/PvP.  Finding the balance of both isn't always easy...else this wouldn't be a discussion on 99% of MMO boards.

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BDO I foresee having some more PvE in the form of end game world bosses, or, PvP for the right to PvE such bosses may they be instanced. There should be a healthy mixture of both. Regardless, any end game PvE should be focused around the necessity to PvP in order to accomplish, or at the very least, allow PvP within the encounter. 

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BDO I foresee having some more PvE in the form of end game world bosses, or, PvP for the right to PvE such bosses may they be instanced. There should be a healthy mixture of both. Regardless, any end game PvE should be focused around the necessity to PvP in order to accomplish, or at the very least, allow PvP within the encounter. 

A health mix absolutely but having to win a pvp battle for the right to fight a pve boss will lead to imbalances across the server. Top guilds will own those spots and essentially keep the majority of the server away from decent gear.

PVP within an encounter is just asking for trouble. We've all seen the Ranger causing nothing but trouble for a world boss group on Youtube... the guy isn't even that good but with a combination of speed and ranged attacks he's just grieving the people trying to work towards a goal. He isn't being skillful or impressive for that matter, he is looking for free kills from crits while others can't fight back. It's fine to have world bosses around where stuff like this can happen but World bosses can't be the end game solution for PVE'ers...the game would last a few months and tank in NA, we need more than that to keep us busy

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Posted

I don't care if there's no end game PVE.  The combat is fun enough for me to get hundreds of hours of enjoyment out of this.  You could think of end game PVE in BDO as maybe, building your house and taming animals.  That should take you awhile.

BDO I foresee having some more PvE in the form of end game world bosses, or, PvP for the right to PvE such bosses may they be instanced. There should be a healthy mixture of both. Regardless, any end game PvE should be focused around the necessity to PvP in order to accomplish, or at the very least, allow PvP within the encounter. 

I don't think there should be any instances.  This is a sandbox and instances are for games like Star Wars:TOR.  I don't even want minor instances just for boss encounters.  The point is for a living, breathing open world that you would expect to see active.  What turned me off from WoW was everyone sitting in the hub city and just queuing for dungeons over and over.  The world outside those towns was devoid of players.

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I'd be happy with just some special mobs or bosses that spawn out in the world randomly that have a chance at dropping unique costumes. It wouldn't really take away from the game at all as it is.

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I don't care if there's no end game PVE.  The combat is fun enough for me to get hundreds of hours of enjoyment out of this.  You could think of end game PVE in BDO as maybe, building your house and taming animals.  That should take you awhile.

I don't think there should be any instances.  This is a sandbox and instances are for games like Star Wars:TOR.  I don't even want minor instances just for boss encounters.  The point is for a living, breathing open world that you would expect to see active.  What turned me off from WoW was everyone sitting in the hub city and just queuing for dungeons over and over.  The world outside those towns was devoid of players.

You've missed the point. You may want a 100% pvp world that will entertain you for hundreds of hours but there just isn't enough people like you to sustain a decent player base and for the game to generate enough revenue to maintain. Like it or not the pvp'ers need the pve'ers and vice versa to maintain the player base so a compromise needs to be made which is what my original suggestion was. I completely agree that pve queuing in towns is totally pointless, same goes for pvp but so many MMO's have followed the WoW example that now everyone just assumes that when instances are added to the game they will be added in that way. Refer to my previous post a few pages back and you'll see it doesn't have to be that way.

Another suggestion would be to have various high level instance entrances dotted around the map and they would open on a timer so if people had to get to an instance and had to do it in a certain amount of time the pve'ers would still have to organize a group either through a general or LFG chat in town or through their guild chat then move out in a group and be prepared for a fight as the pvpers would be waiting to ambush them...sometimes you might get lucky and get there with no trouble, other times there could be a whole guild camping the entrance.

Which would you prefer? a good old fashioned punch up between a whole bunch of players in an open world environment or no motivation for the pve'ers to leave town once they reach level cap and the pvp'ers just stuck ganking the old stray here and there....have to think bigger picture on this

Oh, now add in the fact that the group can't enter the instance until all party members are in proximity. If the group goes out to the entrance and one player is hanging around in town then those pve'ers have to sit there and wait meaning there are a group of pve'ers out in the open world ready to be engaged by any pvper. Assuming no teleports or summons are added then this simple idea alone can generate brawls all over the map and if the entrances are on timers then you'll end up having hardcore pvp guilds deliberately going out to block instances and hardcore pve'ers being prepared to fight their way through to get inside

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